Author Topic: Trump Derangement Syndrome  (Read 5830 times)

cobafdek

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2017, 04:06:17 PM »
I guess where I was confused is because to me, you are exhibiting the same cognitive biases.

You're not confused.  My brain is only human, and I am subject to the same cognitive biases.  For example, I think I experience cognitive dissonance when I read Parsad's, Liberty's, and other's opinions on Trump, because I find their investment stuff worthwhile to read.  Starting this thread could be seen as my way of reducing my discomfort.  I could be completely off base, as I might have been with Case #3:  you see how I relented somewhat to SharperDingaan's view.

I'm shocked (shocked!) and disappointed when politicians don't live up to expectations.

Irony fail:  I guess I'm not very good impersonating Captain Renault in Casablanca.  Too early to conclude Trump is a failure.


Parsad

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2017, 04:08:47 PM »
Case #4:

Triggered.  And doubling down.  Thanks for the additional example.

Also, confirmation bias working overtime.  Scott Adams?  I was channeling Rory Sutherland, and, I admit, badly.

More nothing. Zero substance, just rhetorical tricks ("if I act like I've won, some people will believe I'm smart and I've won" and "if I throw around words like triggered and cognitive bias and cognitive dissonance, surely people will read into it that I'm saying something clever").

Kind of like a con artist. Seems familiar these days...

+1!  Cheers!
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cobafdek

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2017, 04:13:41 PM »
These are the problems which create the cognitive biases you are complaining about.

Real progress is measurable.

Correct that the emotion brain is involved with the cognitive biases, but I'm not complaining about them, and didn't want to come across as complaining.  I'm just making note of them.

Feelings/emotions/subjective states aren't real?

LC

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2017, 04:19:43 PM »
If it's too early to tell, then all our discussion is pointless and all we can do is wait and see.

In the meantime, what we can do is create good metrics (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART_criteria) to evaluate his performance.

It would be interesting to see what goals/metrics/milestones people have in mind to consider his presidency a success.
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Gregmal

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2017, 04:27:05 PM »
Not surprised at all by this. I've called it out plenty of times.

I myself voted for Trump. He is not my favorite candidate ever. He is not even what I'd classify as a great person or a role model of any sorts. He is what he is and for many reasons, to me, I decided he was a better option than sticking with Hillary and the status quo.

But what is highly amusing are the type of things highlighted here. The complete insanity his critics seem to display grasping at every little bit of anything to try to prove to themselves that he is what they want him to be.

I've seen so many laughable headlines critiquing things ranging from how much his wife's clothing cost(even though Hillary regularly wore $15,000 Hermes shirts) to the fact that his wife wore a certain outfit to such and such event(while Michelle Obama was a fashionista for doing the same), calling him racist/fascist/whatever for not explicitly singling out a group of white extremists(even though Barry O never heard a peep about refusing to denounce radical Islam), complaining about the corruption among his inner circle(even though politicians across the board are largely corrupt and the Clintons were quite possible the most corrupt of any politicians to even step foot in Washington), to calling him an idiot/crook/whatever for bankrupting companies and dodging taxes(these same people idolize fellows like Buffett and Lampert for doing the same). It's hilarious. Almost as hilarious as all the Hollywood heroes/women's/human rights activists/major liberals getting exposed by the Harvey Weinstein scandal. There are a lot of Ben Affleck's and George Clooney's here...

There's so much turnover in his cabinet OMG. It must be because it's in chaos and he's an idiot. Or maybe unlike previous politicians he doesn't fill it with his friends to let them chill for 4-8 years and rather runs it the same way he did his own businesses; firing someone if they arent doing the job right or if a better candidate comes along. Anyway, I'll just see what I want to see.

Edit, also have to throw in the Comey hilariousness. "Comey should be fired for what he did to Hillary before the election and how he handled that"...Trump fires Comey..."Obstruction of justice! How dare Comey get fired"... LOL
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 04:35:18 PM by Gregmal »

Parsad

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2017, 04:37:36 PM »
Not surprised at all by this. I've called it out plenty of times.

I myself voted for Trump. He is not my favorite candidate ever. He is not even what I'd classify as a great person or a role model of any sorts. He is what he is and for many reasons, to me, I decided he was a better option than sticking with Hillary and the status quo.

But what is highly amusing are the type of things highlighted here. The complete insanity his critics seem to display grasping at every little bit of anything to try to prove to themselves that he is what they want him to be.

I've seen so many laughable headlines critiquing things ranging from how much his wife's clothing cost(even though Hillary regularly wore $15,000 Hermes shirts) to the fact that his wife wore a certain outfit to such and such event(while Michelle Obama was a fashionista for doing the same), calling him racist/fascist/whatever for not explicitly singling out a group of white extremists(even though Barry O never heard a peep about refusing to denounce radical Islam), complaining about the corruption among his inner circle(even though politicians across the board are largely corrupt and the Clintons were quite possible the most corrupt of any politicians to even step foot in Washington), to calling him an idiot/crook/whatever for bankrupting companies and dodging taxes(these same people idolize fellows like Buffett and Lampert for doing the same). It's hilarious. Almost as hilarious as all the Hollywood heroes/women's/human rights activists/major liberals getting exposed by the Harvey Weinstein scandal. There are a lot of Ben Affleck's and George Clooney's here...

There's so much turnover in his cabinet OMG. It must be because it's in chaos and he's an idiot. Or maybe unlike previous politicians his doesn't fill it with his friends to let them chill for 4-8 years and rather runs it the same way he did his own businesses; firing someone if they arent doing the job right or if a better candidate comes along. Anyway, I'll just see what I want to see.

Ignore all of the stupid little things that people have grasped onto and won't let go.  We are closing in on a year in office.  By ANY measure...has there been any success or progress by the Trump administration, in any area at all?

Forget about the complete dysfunction within his own team, the Republican party and the present collusion case against those that advised, supported or guided him.  Has there been any piece of progress anywhere in nearly a year in office?  Anything...at all?

What he could have gotten done if his bullying tactics, twitter obsession and ego were put aside:

- Could have reduced corporate and personal taxes across the board.
- Could have repatriated back nearly $1-1.5T in offshore cash.
- Could have fixed Obamacare...properly.
- Could have tightened immigration controls.
- Could have boldly taken the global stage and lead the world to deal with NK.
- Could have aligned both conservative democrats and liberal republicans.
- Could have evened the playing field between China and the United States.
- Could have used offshore cash to invest in domestic business and entrepreneurship.
- Could have propelled U.S. into becoming fully energy self-sufficient.

Nope.  Nada...zilch...nothing done, nothing passed...wasted opportunities!  Cheers!
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Gregmal

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2017, 04:44:42 PM »
Not surprised at all by this. I've called it out plenty of times.

I myself voted for Trump. He is not my favorite candidate ever. He is not even what I'd classify as a great person or a role model of any sorts. He is what he is and for many reasons, to me, I decided he was a better option than sticking with Hillary and the status quo.

But what is highly amusing are the type of things highlighted here. The complete insanity his critics seem to display grasping at every little bit of anything to try to prove to themselves that he is what they want him to be.

I've seen so many laughable headlines critiquing things ranging from how much his wife's clothing cost(even though Hillary regularly wore $15,000 Hermes shirts) to the fact that his wife wore a certain outfit to such and such event(while Michelle Obama was a fashionista for doing the same), calling him racist/fascist/whatever for not explicitly singling out a group of white extremists(even though Barry O never heard a peep about refusing to denounce radical Islam), complaining about the corruption among his inner circle(even though politicians across the board are largely corrupt and the Clintons were quite possible the most corrupt of any politicians to even step foot in Washington), to calling him an idiot/crook/whatever for bankrupting companies and dodging taxes(these same people idolize fellows like Buffett and Lampert for doing the same). It's hilarious. Almost as hilarious as all the Hollywood heroes/women's/human rights activists/major liberals getting exposed by the Harvey Weinstein scandal. There are a lot of Ben Affleck's and George Clooney's here...

There's so much turnover in his cabinet OMG. It must be because it's in chaos and he's an idiot. Or maybe unlike previous politicians his doesn't fill it with his friends to let them chill for 4-8 years and rather runs it the same way he did his own businesses; firing someone if they arent doing the job right or if a better candidate comes along. Anyway, I'll just see what I want to see.

Ignore all of the stupid little things that people have grasped onto and won't let go.  We are closing in on a year in office.  By ANY measure...has there been any success or progress by the Trump administration, in any area at all?

Forget about the complete dysfunction within his own team, the Republican party and the present collusion case against those that advised, supported or guided him.  Has there been any piece of progress anywhere in nearly a year in office?  Anything...at all?

What he could have gotten done if his bullying tactics, twitter obsession and ego were put aside:

- Could have reduced corporate and personal taxes across the board.
- Could have repatriated back nearly $1-1.5T in offshore cash.
- Could have fixed Obamacare...properly.
- Could have tightened immigration controls.
- Could have boldly taken the global stage and lead the world to deal with NK.
- Could have aligned both conservative democrats and liberal republicans.
- Could have evened the playing field between China and the United States.
- Could have used offshore cash to invest in domestic business and entrepreneurship.
- Could have propelled U.S. into becoming fully energy self-sufficient.

Nope.  Nada...zilch...nothing done, nothing passed...wasted opportunities!  Cheers!

Ok. I agree with you. But being objective, is it not entirely clear that Trump is basically the most bullshit Republican to ever run as one. Democrats hate him, Republicans hate him. Is it really shocking he can't get anything through? The progress you are seeing is folks like Corker, Flake, soon to be McConnell, Pelosi and Schumer, all leaving because they are starting to get the message that people are sick of their nonsense? That is what Trump brings to the table. It will turn the system around(hopefully), as we are already starting to see hints of that. I just hope he doesn't get us nuked with his bravado bs but let's get real, he's a one term president who was really just as Michael Moore described him, a human Molotov cocktail the middle class sent to Washington to say F you.

LC

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2017, 04:55:47 PM »
Quote
unlike previous politicians he doesn't fill it with his friends to let them chill for 4-8 years and rather runs it the same way he did his own businesses; firing someone if they arent doing the job right or if a better candidate comes along

Democrats hate him, Republicans hate him. Is it really shocking he can't get anything through?

the other perspective is that he makes excuses for his own ineffectiveness, but not his employees.

if all the goals that Sanjeev mentioned are not realistic, what are some realistic goals for a successful Trump presidency?
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Cigarbutt

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2017, 05:01:48 PM »
"turn the system around(hopefully)"
That is what interests me now. However it's done and by whom.

Let's not forget the forgotten and try to address how things can get done.
There is so much potential. Especially if it's inclusive. Let's define the realistic goals and the way to achieve them.

The definition of the "forgotten man" is certainly fuzzy and has been twisted along the way to "fit" the ideology.

"JD Vance's book Hillbilly Elegy may point the way". Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into it.

Maybe a suggestion for a slightly different perspective on the issue:
http://swcta.net/moore/files/2013/03/Nickel-and-Dimed-Barbara-Ehrenreich.pdf

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Liberty

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2017, 05:04:03 PM »
Pretty weak, Greg.

You made a list of strawmen...

I don't see anybody here focusing on what Trump's wife is wearing, but it's pretty hypocritical to focus on Clinton wearing some expensive clothes when Trump is constantly posing in a golden palace sitting on a golden throne and bragging about being rich (and then turning around and doing his best pitch to blue collar people -- who he never really gave much thought before running for office -- about caring so much about them).

I don't care what Obama or Trump call terrorists, and clearly if Obama had used that phrase it wouldn't have changed anything (not like his opponents would've been satisfied by that). It's pretty clear that Obama didn't have affinities for Al Quaeda or ISIS. He killed Bin Laden and bombed the crap out of them (maybe if Bush hadn't lied to start a war in 2003 ISIS would've never existed, but whatever). Trump, on the other hand, became the only person to defend the white supremacists, which was very peculiar. Equating the two doesn't work.

As for Trump's financials, well, if he ever released his tax returns like he promised countless times to do (and blamed Romney for not doing fast enough), we could say more. But nobody here is admiring Buffett for "bankrupting companies (?) and dodging taxes". It's fine to be tax efficient, and good for Trump if he is. But I think that as a presidential candidate, his taxes and businesses should've been scrutinized like past candidates, and even moreso as president. He should also put his assets in a blind trust not run by his children who he sees all the time, which he said he'd do before he actually didn't, because conflicts of interests are a real thing. Only someone of low integrity would weasel out of doing what is clearly the right thing by claiming that the letter of the law doesn't force him to do so.

As for the turnover in the cabinet, thats not the problem. The problem is the reason why there's so much turnover. Chaos and incompetence and scandals over lies on security clearance forms, firing the FBI director, the constant drumbeat of new Russia-linked revelations (which are made even more peculiar by Trump's very weird behavior wrt Russia and Putin for much of last year) and such. For months it was basically one or more scandal per day. This is unprecedented stuff and trying to spin it as some competent business guy optimizing his staff is disingenious.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 05:18:03 PM by Liberty »
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