Author Topic: Trump Derangement Syndrome  (Read 41337 times)

cobafdek

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #90 on: March 09, 2018, 04:47:46 PM »
Intense cognitive dissonance is the hallmark of TDS.  The Mind-reader Illusion is one of the signs of cognitive dissonance.

Compare these two samples of mind-reading:

1.  In other words, because Trump has both a massive ego and virtually no understanding of foreign policy, he foolishly leaped at the bait dangled by the South and North Koreans. . . .  Imagine Trump, for example, thinking he could make a deal with Iran with no expert preparation, no tedious diplomacy, no disclosure by Iran of its program, no agreed-upon parameters ó simply by getting in the room with the Supreme Leader and telling him whatís what. . . .  Trump thinks this is like a real-estate deal. He marches into the room, barks a few lines, sets a price and then goes out for a steak dinner with the guy on the other side ó all the details to be worked out later. In fact, the details are the entire ballgame. . . .  The fact that, given his druthers, Trump would have marched into a room without preconditions with the North Korean thug tells you everything you need to know about how erratic, dangerous and irrational he can be.

2.  Trump wants more tariffs. He bad mouths trade any chance he gets, gets out of free trade treaties and generally feels like the US economy should be more closed on itself rather than trading with the rest of the world. This is likely because he doesn't understand the difference between a zero-sum game and a non-zero sum game, or that it's not because something is called a "deficit" that it's necessarily bad (if it was phrased as "the US is the biggest purchaser in the world because it's wealthiest and so it buys more from it's much smaller trading partners than they buy from it" I bet he'd feel less like everybody was taking advantage of the country -- it would also make sense to look at where the economic value flows rather than just look at gross revenues from trade with various countries). He also feels like any other country strengthening is somehow taking something away from the US (zero sum game mentality again), so he has to put down others constantly, even allies, rather than help them. . . .  You thinking that this is some masterful 3D chess by Trump is still the old Scott Adams thinking from pre-election days when people thought it was all an act to achieve his goals. Well, the past year has shown that it's really a big SNAFU and that there's no plan and he's just whining it and changing his mind based on the last adviser or lobbyist that he spoke to and who controls access to him or what's on some partisan TV show that evening (literally without fact-checking any of it). So who's naive?

Which one was written by Hairtrigger Liberty?  (Reply #195 in http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/general-discussion/mr-trump-to-to-impose-stiff-tariffs-on-steel-and-aluminum/)

Which one was written by Jennifer Rubin of the Washington Post?  https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/03/09/damage-control-at-white-house-to-reverse-trumps-stunning-blunder/?utm_term=.6d27d7d8a2d0


rukawa

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #91 on: March 10, 2018, 05:09:34 AM »
I'm no fan of Trump but I think TDS is real. Interestingly it has a historical parallel...Reagan Derangement Syndrome. The funny thing about RDS is that liberals are still pretty deranged in their thinking about Reagan even after he basically brought down communism which is probably the single greatest achievement of any president in the last 60 years.

The thinking about Reagan was that he was some moronic, has-been actor who was enormously dangerous, mean-spirited and malevolent. And that the 1980's was a horrible decade of greed.

So it doesn't matter what Trump does. He will be viewed as evil by liberals now and for the next 30 years regardless of foreign policy or economic accomplishments.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/06/the-reagan-show-review-gipper-still-drives-liberals-insane/

You also have the equivalents although less extreme on the conservative side..conservative thinking about Obama and Clinton has been deranged. Clinton especially so.

Listen to the opening of the Reagan documentary....it literally sounds ominous:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07BHVGm-Y6s
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 05:17:26 AM by rukawa »

DTEJD1997

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #92 on: March 10, 2018, 09:18:28 AM »
I'm no fan of Trump but I think TDS is real. Interestingly it has a historical parallel...Reagan Derangement Syndrome. The funny thing about RDS is that liberals are still pretty deranged in their thinking about Reagan even after he basically brought down communism which is probably the single greatest achievement of any president in the last 60 years.

The thinking about Reagan was that he was some moronic, has-been actor who was enormously dangerous, mean-spirited and malevolent. And that the 1980's was a horrible decade of greed.

So it doesn't matter what Trump does. He will be viewed as evil by liberals now and for the next 30 years regardless of foreign policy or economic accomplishments.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/06/the-reagan-show-review-gipper-still-drives-liberals-insane/

You also have the equivalents although less extreme on the conservative side..conservative thinking about Obama and Clinton has been deranged. Clinton especially so.

Listen to the opening of the Reagan documentary....it literally sounds ominous:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07BHVGm-Y6s
I can remember when Reagan was elected.  A lot of people lost their minds.  It is not as bad as Trump...but the 24 hour news cycle was not really going in 1980.  Many, many, many "news people" ridiculed Reagan for his Jelly Beans, being a cowboy, and of course getting us into a nuclear war.

I can also just remember the last part of the Carter presidency.  So many people were out of work/having financial difficulty.  The problems with inflation...oil, gasoline & heating your home.  Of course, the worst of all was the hostage situation at the Iranian Embassy.  Mr. Carter was probably a decent enough human being.  Somebody you want for your next door neighbor maybe.  President?  You've got to be kidding!  He was ineffectual, totally outgunned & outclassed by his problems & enemies.  A truly TERRIBLE president as shown by the results.

rb

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #93 on: March 10, 2018, 11:06:48 AM »
You also have the equivalents although less extreme on the conservative side..conservative thinking about Obama and Clinton has been deranged. Clinton especially so.
I'm sorry I don't mean to interrupt the pitty party. Plus I don't know much about the reaction to Reagan's election so I can't add much to that. But your comment really made me laugh.

Clinton was impeached because he lied about getting a blow job. How quaint that must seem today. And I guess the whole birther thing was just a minor misunderstanding. A significant part of conservatives think that Obama is a muslim who wanted to implement sharia law. If that is less extreme, then making fun of one's jelly beans must be really, really bad.

rkbabang

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #94 on: March 10, 2018, 05:29:45 PM »
You also have the equivalents although less extreme on the conservative side..conservative thinking about Obama and Clinton has been deranged. Clinton especially so.
I'm sorry I don't mean to interrupt the pitty party. Plus I don't know much about the reaction to Reagan's election so I can't add much to that. But your comment really made me laugh.

Clinton was impeached because he lied about getting a blow job. How quaint that must seem today. And I guess the whole birther thing was just a minor misunderstanding. A significant part of conservatives think that Obama is a muslim who wanted to implement sharia law. If that is less extreme, then making fun of one's jelly beans must be really, really bad.

You are talking about fringe conspiracy theorist with the birther thing, we are talking about the mainstream press and the vast majority of the liberals left.  And the Blowjob thing by a young intern in the Oval Office, could you imagine if Trump did that? No Republican could ever get away with such a thing. You are simply delusional.

rb

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #95 on: March 10, 2018, 06:11:52 PM »
You also have the equivalents although less extreme on the conservative side..conservative thinking about Obama and Clinton has been deranged. Clinton especially so.
I'm sorry I don't mean to interrupt the pitty party. Plus I don't know much about the reaction to Reagan's election so I can't add much to that. But your comment really made me laugh.

Clinton was impeached because he lied about getting a blow job. How quaint that must seem today. And I guess the whole birther thing was just a minor misunderstanding. A significant part of conservatives think that Obama is a muslim who wanted to implement sharia law. If that is less extreme, then making fun of one's jelly beans must be really, really bad.

You are talking about fringe conspiracy theorist with the birther thing, we are talking about the mainstream press and the vast majority of the liberals left.  And the Blowjob thing by a young intern in the Oval Office, could you imagine if Trump did that? No Republican could ever get away with such a thing. You are simply delusional.
Cmon man, are you kidding me?

The chief birther is the current president of the United States. I wouldn't exactly call that fringe. As for what republicans can get away with, you have pussy grabbing and the family values people are giving a republican mulligans to bang playboy bunnies and porn stars while the wife's at home with a newborn. I'd say that a republican can get away with quite a bit and that I'm likely not delusional - though one cannot be certain of such things.

rkbabang

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #96 on: March 12, 2018, 05:52:22 AM »
You also have the equivalents although less extreme on the conservative side..conservative thinking about Obama and Clinton has been deranged. Clinton especially so.
I'm sorry I don't mean to interrupt the pitty party. Plus I don't know much about the reaction to Reagan's election so I can't add much to that. But your comment really made me laugh.

Clinton was impeached because he lied about getting a blow job. How quaint that must seem today. And I guess the whole birther thing was just a minor misunderstanding. A significant part of conservatives think that Obama is a muslim who wanted to implement sharia law. If that is less extreme, then making fun of one's jelly beans must be really, really bad.

You are talking about fringe conspiracy theorist with the birther thing, we are talking about the mainstream press and the vast majority of the liberals left.  And the Blowjob thing by a young intern in the Oval Office, could you imagine if Trump did that? No Republican could ever get away with such a thing. You are simply delusional.
Cmon man, are you kidding me?

The chief birther is the current president of the United States. I wouldn't exactly call that fringe. As for what republicans can get away with, you have pussy grabbing and the family values people are giving a republican mulligans to bang playboy bunnies and porn stars while the wife's at home with a newborn. I'd say that a republican can get away with quite a bit and that I'm likely not delusional - though one cannot be certain of such things.

I don't think you are able to see it.  It is like asking a Red Sox fan to see some nuanced thing from the Yankees point of view.  A Yankees fan would see it, someone who isn't a baseball fan would see it, but the Red Sox fan never will (especially if that thing exists on the other side as well even if in differing amounts).

I hate both sides and always have.  I voted in every election in which I was eligible from 1990 until 2008 (federal, state, local, general, primary) and I have never voted for a person who has won their election, not once.  I am on no team and you could say I am not a (political) sports fan at all.  I hate the game and everyone in it.  I hate what they do, I hate how they talk, I hate how they think.

That said, some observations I can make is that almost all of the mainstream media is skewed as far left as fox news is right. The difference being that everyone knows that Fox news is skewed right and the left wing media tries to portray itself as "unbiased" and somehow more legitimate.

There was a lot of anti-Reagan sentiment in the media, I was old enough to remember that, but nothing like what we see with Trump.  I have never in my life seen such an overreaction by such a large amount of people in society to a political figure.  I'm sorry, but Trump Derangement Syndrome is both entirely real and completely unprecedented.

BTW there have been presidents who have cheated on their wives with bimbos before going back to long before we were born.   Nothing Trump is even accused of is radically different.   He never had sex with a young employee in the Oval Office.  And I didn't personally think even that was such big deal (lying about it under oath was far worse), but to each his own.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 05:54:12 AM by rkbabang »

cobafdek

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #97 on: March 12, 2018, 10:34:08 AM »
Former NY Times editor Jill Abramson:

Thatís why I carry a little plastic Obama doll in my purse. I pull him out every now and then to remind myself that the United States had a progressive, African American president until very recently. Some people find this strange, but you have to take comfort where you can find it in Donald Trumpís America.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/07/primaries-democratic-wave-2020

Schwab711

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #98 on: March 12, 2018, 11:45:10 AM »
According to a recent poll, a majority of R's believe there is no evidence of a conspiracy between Trump's campaign and the Russian government. Not that it wasn't a big-enough deal to impeach or that he shouldn't be charged while in office. They believe that there is literally no evidence. Baffling.

Similarly, the following has been ignored or overlooked because Trump can do no wrong: (1) the DNC hack (we extradited one of the hackers who has admitted to the crime in a European court); (2) alleging of crimes of political opponents without evidence or even follow-through; (3) nepotism; (4) cronyism; (5) emoluments; (6) Uranium One; (7) "no Russians ever -> No collusion -> Collusion is not a crime -> I didn't personally collude" transition of story; (8) Mexico will pay for the wall, taking guns; (9) cheating on his wife; (10) lying to the public as his first act (crowd size) and every day since; (11) attempting to fire the special counsel; (12) asking the WH Counsel to lie about Trump asking him to fire the special counsel; (13) saying the election was "rigged" before the election; (14) name-calling every political opponent (which we are now seeing by others in the primaries); (15) asking Russia to release Hillary's "deleted emails" (surely your joking, Mr. Trump); (16) Central Park 5 newspaper ad; (17) lying about his business success (let's not forget the Trump U fraud, Trump Casino money laundering, & Trump Tower fraud that wasn't prosecuted); (18) Hiring Flynn despite specific warnings; (19) Firing Flynn only because the MSM made the story publicly known; (20) Asking Comey to drop the investigation in to Flynn; (21) Asking Comey to drop his investigation; (22) Firing Comey when he wouldn't publicly clear Trump; (23) Lying to the public about why he fired Comey (by contradicting himself within 48 hours); (24) Sharing code-word-level Top Secret intelligence with Russia; (25) not enacting Russian sanctions; (26) telling folks not to trust the intelligence community (which has all the smoking-gun-like evidence on Trump and might be affecting his opinion here) and the FBI; and on and on.

I could continue on for a while without Googling. None of this has anything to do with policy preference. That's what's crazy. Folks overlook all of this and more for reasons I can't understand. I get folks believe different methods of governing are more effective than others, but Trump is quite clearly abusing power unlike anyone before him.

We should start a topic about what the parties have in common before we all forget in the coming months. At least we know TDS hit most Americans indiscriminately. :)

cobafdek

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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome
« Reply #99 on: March 12, 2018, 01:03:43 PM »
According to a recent poll, a majority of R's believe there is no evidence of a conspiracy between Trump's campaign and the Russian government. Not that it wasn't a big-enough deal to impeach or that he shouldn't be charged while in office. They believe that there is literally no evidence. Baffling.

Similarly, the following has been ignored or overlooked because Trump can do no wrong: (1) the DNC hack (we extradited one of the hackers who has admitted to the crime in a European court); (2) alleging of crimes of political opponents without evidence or even follow-through; (3) nepotism; (4) cronyism; (5) emoluments; (6) Uranium One; (7) "no Russians ever -> No collusion -> Collusion is not a crime -> I didn't personally collude" transition of story; (8) Mexico will pay for the wall, taking guns; (9) cheating on his wife; (10) lying to the public as his first act (crowd size) and every day since; (11) attempting to fire the special counsel; (12) asking the WH Counsel to lie about Trump asking him to fire the special counsel; (13) saying the election was "rigged" before the election; (14) name-calling every political opponent (which we are now seeing by others in the primaries); (15) asking Russia to release Hillary's "deleted emails" (surely your joking, Mr. Trump); (16) Central Park 5 newspaper ad; (17) lying about his business success (let's not forget the Trump U fraud, Trump Casino money laundering, & Trump Tower fraud that wasn't prosecuted); (18) Hiring Flynn despite specific warnings; (19) Firing Flynn only because the MSM made the story publicly known; (20) Asking Comey to drop the investigation in to Flynn; (21) Asking Comey to drop his investigation; (22) Firing Comey when he wouldn't publicly clear Trump; (23) Lying to the public about why he fired Comey (by contradicting himself within 48 hours); (24) Sharing code-word-level Top Secret intelligence with Russia; (25) not enacting Russian sanctions; (26) telling folks not to trust the intelligence community (which has all the smoking-gun-like evidence on Trump and might be affecting his opinion here) and the FBI; and on and on.

I could continue on for a while without Googling. None of this has anything to do with policy preference. That's what's crazy. Folks overlook all of this and more for reasons I can't understand. I get folks believe different methods of governing are more effective than others, but Trump is quite clearly abusing power unlike anyone before him.

We should start a topic about what the parties have in common before we all forget in the coming months. At least we know TDS hit most Americans indiscriminately. :)

Since I intended this thread's topic to be in the realm of cognitive science, I'll try to limit my comments to the psychological.

If you started out anti-Trump, your recitation of the evidence is impressive and convincing. 

If you started out pro-Trump, that incoherent hodgepodge of facts/non-facts only looks like "evidence" but is not evidence.

That's confirmation bias.  Because of prior bias, both sides have limited credibility when it comes to interpreting the "evidence," and what you say and what I say might be safely ignored.

Much more credible would be a liberal, heavily inclined to be anti-Trump from the beginning, coming to the conclusion that the Russia thing is a big nothing.  That person's assessment of the data feels more objective because it goes against their own bias.  Like Van Jones of CNN, or Alan Dershowitz, among many others.

Can anyone think of a pro-Trump pundit (specifically, not a conservative Republican anti-Trumper, of whom there are many) who says Trump is guilty?

Meanwhile, others may be coming around, like SNL:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/cnnmoney/2018/03/11/snl-the-bachelor-robert-muller-investigation-orig-gs.cnn