Corner of Berkshire & Fairfax Message Board

General Category => Politics => Topic started by: Vish_ram on November 05, 2018, 12:36:17 PM

Title: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Vish_ram on November 05, 2018, 12:36:17 PM
Forget the blue wave, it is going to be blue Tsunami.

I've lots of friends who never voted are lining up to vote this time, and mostly all "D". The theme is , Putin's "Agent Orange" is not in tune with American values.

Once people watch and learn and vote, they'll vote again and again. AO has permanently cured the Democratic voter's apathy.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Cardboard on November 06, 2018, 06:27:05 PM
Where is the Blue Tsunami? Feels more like a 5 foot wave hitting Gibraltar. LOL!

Maybe that your so called values are not in tune with true American values and needs?

Cardboard
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 06, 2018, 09:38:48 PM
Looks like the democrats took the House while republicans kept the Senate. Perhaps more of the tide coming in vs a tsunami.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Viking on November 06, 2018, 10:50:48 PM
The Democrats getting control of the house is major win, especially given the issues with polling accuracy in recent years. My guess is the next 2 years will be even more polarizing.

Trump will set the tone. He does not compromise and a Democratic House will be red meat for him.

The key will be if the Democrats are able to find any significant dirt on Trump. They have 2 years to dig something up. If not, there is s solid chance Trump will be a 2 term President.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Cardboard on November 07, 2018, 03:56:33 AM
If you look at the title of this thread and terms such as Blue Tsunami you clearly see signs of someone who is desperate and out of touch with reality.

Democrats took back the house with a few seats advantage after being out since 2010. What happened just before 2010? Obamacare.

What States made a difference once again or like in every election? Pennsylvania, Virginia and a few other swing States.

If the Democrats keep pushing identity politics and far left plans ahead of true voters interest, they will lose again in 2020. Their problem is to think that being elected means a green light on all their extreme left agenda.

If they are serious, time to get rid of Pelosi and have a moderate leader. They call Trump an idiot, racist, etc, then put some adult in charge. Although, I won't hold my breath.

Cardboard
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: globalfinancepartners on November 07, 2018, 04:26:40 AM
It does seem like Obamacare and Obama's Medicaid expansion continue to gain in popularity.  3 additional "Red" states voted to expand Medicaid.  My own "Red" state, Louisiana, elected a Democrat as Governor a few years ago and promptly adopted Obama's Medicaid expansion.

Personally, I get my health insurance through the "Obamacare" exchanges and have the best coverage at the lowest price of my lifetime - something that was always out of reach as a self employed American not part of some large "group."

If you look at the title of this thread and terms such as Blue Tsunami you clearly see signs of someone who is desperate and out of touch with reality.

Democrats took back the house with a few seats advantage after being out since 2010. What happened just before 2010? Obamacare.

What States made a difference once again or like in every election? Pennsylvania, Virginia and a few other swing States.

If the Democrats keep pushing identity politics and far left plans ahead of true voters interest, they will lose again in 2020. Their problem is to think that being elected means a green light on all their extreme left agenda.

If they are serious, time to get rid of Pelosi and have a moderate leader. They call Trump an idiot, racist, etc, then put some adult in charge. Although, I won't hold my breath.

Cardboard
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: rkbabang on November 07, 2018, 05:50:26 AM
Looks like the democrats took the House while republicans kept the Senate. Perhaps more of the tide coming in vs a tsunami.

Pretty good results as far as I'm concerned.  I prefer split government to any one party getting to do what they want.   Republicans have had both houses of Congress and the Presidency for two years and increased spending enormously.  That should be proof enough that anyone who thinks Republicans are for small/reduced/limited government are just kidding themselves.   With a US type two-party system gridlock is the best you can hope for IMHO.   Here's hoping nothing "gets done".
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: vikx01 on November 07, 2018, 05:57:25 AM
From 2.1% popular vote to about 7-8% against the party at the center is significant especially in a very healthy economy. Tsunami or not who knows.

Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: longinvestor on November 07, 2018, 06:01:48 AM
It does seem like Obamacare and Obama's Medicaid expansion continue to gain in popularity.  3 additional "Red" states voted to expand Medicaid.  My own "Red" state, Louisiana, elected a Democrat as Governor a few years ago and promptly adopted Obama's Medicaid expansion.

Personally, I get my health insurance through the "Obamacare" exchanges and have the best coverage at the lowest price of my lifetime - something that was always out of reach as a self employed American not part of some large "group."

If you look at the title of this thread and terms such as Blue Tsunami you clearly see signs of someone who is desperate and out of touch with reality.

Democrats took back the house with a few seats advantage after being out since 2010. What happened just before 2010? Obamacare.

What States made a difference once again or like in every election? Pennsylvania, Virginia and a few other swing States.

If the Democrats keep pushing identity politics and far left plans ahead of true voters interest, they will lose again in 2020. Their problem is to think that being elected means a green light on all their extreme left agenda.

If they are serious, time to get rid of Pelosi and have a moderate leader. They call Trump an idiot, racist, etc, then put some adult in charge. Although, I won't hold my breath.

Cardboard

GFP, your candor with sharing your personal information is to be lauded. Especially the point of entrepreneurship and health coverage. Freedom from becoming financially maimed by lack of health insurance is huge. I am personally aware of folks, especially those in their 50ís, whose only reason to remain in dead end jobs is group coverage. Whether it is ACA or better version 2 will unshackle a critical demography. Thereís lots of corollary good to get unleashed as healthcare gets untethered from employment or entrepreneurship.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Zorrofan on November 07, 2018, 07:39:24 AM
Forget the blue wave, it is going to be blue Tsunami.

I've lots of friends who never voted are lining up to vote this time, and mostly all "D". The theme is , Putin's "Agent Orange" is not in tune with American values.

Once people watch and learn and vote, they'll vote again and again. AO has permanently cured the Democratic voter's apathy.

The Left continues to call Trump an agent of Putin, but yet seems okay with the many questionable contributions Clinton accepted.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hacked-emails-show-extent-of-foreign-government-donations-to-clinton-foundation/2016/10/16/ce871a82-9319-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html?utm_term=.33e56132fd84

https://www.vox.com/2016/8/25/12615340/hillary-clinton-foundation

And some of my favorites:

Saudi Arabian Influence:

When Clinton first took office in 2008, the foundation disclosed that Saudi Arabia donated between $10 to $25 million, with some donations coming as recently as 2014 when Clinton prepared her run for the presidency. The foundation received an additional $1 to $5 million donation from the ďFriends of Saudi Arabia,Ē which was cofounded by a Saudi prince. Critics question the ethics of taking such vast sums of money from individuals and a government with one of the worst human rights records in the world.

King Of Moroccan Meeting :

Emails released by WikiLeaks, in a likely attempt to influence the U.S. election, also reveal Clinton arranged for her foundation to host a meeting in Morocco in return for a $12 million donation from the countryís king. The donation came from a Moroccan state-owned mining company, which later received a $92 million loan guarantee while Clinton served as secretary of state.

ďThis was HRCís idea, our office approached the Moroccans and they 100 percent believe they are doing this at her request. The King has personally committed approx. $12 million both for the endowment and to support the meeting,Ē Clintons aide Huma Abedin wrote in a leaked email to Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta.

Russian Uranium Ties:

In another troubling instance, foundation donations were closely linked to a uranium mining company tied to the Kremlin. Canadian leaders of a mining company funneled millions of dollars to the foundation while Clinton was secretary of state, at the same time they needed Department of State approval for the sale of their company to Russia. The Clinton State Department-approved deal gave Russia control of one-fifth of the entire uranium supply in the U.S.

The chairman of the uranium mining company donated $2.35 million to the foundation, without any disclosure from the Clintons. After Russia announced its intention to make a bid for the uranium mining company, former President Bill Clinton was paid $500,000 to deliver a speech in Moscow.

Indonesian Tobacco Magnate:

The Clinton Foundationís ties also extend to powerful individuals seeking assistance from the U.S. government, with the help of the Clinton network. Indonesian tobacco magnate Putera Sampoerna donated and worked with the foundation before he ďgot the U.S. government to underwrite millions in loans offered by the foundation and secured high-profile support for its activities from Sec. Clinton and other senior federal officials,Ē according to a report by The Washington Free Beacon.

Algeria, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman:

The Clinton Foundation further accepted donations from several foreign governments while Clinton served as secretary of state, including Algeria, Kuwait, Qatar, and Oman.

In the instance of Algeria, the Clinton Foundation acknowledged to The Washington Post in 2015 it should have sought clearance from the Department of Stateís ethics office before taking $500,000. After Clinton left office, the foundation received a large donation from the United Arab Emirates.

Clinton Foundation officials ignored nearly all ďbest practicesĒ urged by good governance organizations, a July Daily Caller News Foundation investigation found. When Trump challenged Clinton to return donations from countries that abuse women and homosexuals, a DCNF investigation found it would amount to between $19.3 million and $55.7 million.

But yes, Trump is bad......
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Cardboard on November 07, 2018, 09:00:49 AM
Watch out Zorrofan, some smart-... will soon tell you that: Two wrongs don't make a right!

That is one of their favorite sentence to shut any intelligent discussion and keep pushing further their agenda. No mention of degree, nor evidence.

Cardboard
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 07, 2018, 09:13:58 AM
There they go with Hillary again.  ::) ::) ::)

Looks like the democrats took the House while republicans kept the Senate. Perhaps more of the tide coming in vs a tsunami.

Pretty good results as far as I'm concerned.  I prefer split government to any one party getting to do what they want.   Republicans have had both houses of Congress and the Presidency for two years and increased spending enormously.  That should be proof enough that anyone who thinks Republicans are for small/reduced/limited government are just kidding themselves.   With a US type two-party system gridlock is the best you can hope for IMHO.   Here's hoping nothing "gets done".

I actually agree with most of this. Perhaps not hoping for perpetual gridlock, but checks and balances.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: investor-man on November 07, 2018, 10:04:12 AM
Looks like the democrats took the House while republicans kept the Senate. Perhaps more of the tide coming in vs a tsunami.

Pretty good results as far as I'm concerned.  I prefer split government to any one party getting to do what they want.   Republicans have had both houses of Congress and the Presidency for two years and increased spending enormously.  That should be proof enough that anyone who thinks Republicans are for small/reduced/limited government are just kidding themselves.   With a US type two-party system gridlock is the best you can hope for IMHO.   Here's hoping nothing "gets done".

+1
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: vikx01 on November 07, 2018, 10:08:58 AM
Pretty good results as far as I'm concerned.  I prefer split government to any one party getting to do what they want.   Republicans have had both houses of Congress and the Presidency for two years and increased spending enormously.  That should be proof enough that anyone who thinks Republicans are for small/reduced/limited government are just kidding themselves.   With a US type two-party system gridlock is the best you can hope for IMHO.   Here's hoping nothing "gets done".


I think this loss of house might actually be good for Republicans in 2020. Less extreme and harmful policies might be implemented and if economy continues to be good (likely) it bodes well.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Zorrofan on November 07, 2018, 12:13:51 PM
Watch out Zorrofan, some smart-... will soon tell you that: Two wrongs don't make a right!

That is one of their favorite sentence to shut any intelligent discussion and keep pushing further their agenda. No mention of degree, nor evidence.

Cardboard

Cardboard,

I just can't stand the hypocrisy! When the Left denounces the anti-Semitic statements of Louis Farrakhan and Ilhan Omar, when they acknowledge the many questionable actions of the Clintons,
the false alegations against Justice Kavanaugh, then and only then maybe they will start to earn some respect.  Sadly politics seems to sink to new lows with each passing year.

cheers
Zorro
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Gregmal on November 07, 2018, 12:32:12 PM
Watch out Zorrofan, some smart-... will soon tell you that: Two wrongs don't make a right!

That is one of their favorite sentence to shut any intelligent discussion and keep pushing further their agenda. No mention of degree, nor evidence.

Cardboard

Cardboard,

I just can't stand the hypocrisy! When the Left denounces the anti-Semitic statements of Louis Farrakhan and Ilhan Omar, when they acknowledge the many questionable actions of the Clintons,
the false alegations against Justice Kavanaugh, then and only then maybe they will start to earn some respect.  Sadly politics seems to sink to new lows with each passing year.

cheers
Zorro

You notice all the crickets, and what a ghost town it became when there was an equal opportunity to express all that fake "outrage" and "demand" an investigation into the sex assault claims against Mueller? Nope? They even joked about it. Or better yet, when it was revealed that there WERE blatant lies and fabrications from Kavanaugh accusers? Something these folks were told all along? Nope. Crickets. They're just clowns. That's why the fake outrage against Trump gets laughed at. They don't hate corruption, or guys who treat women like shit... they just hate Trump.... everyone sees through their bullshit facade.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 12:39:03 PM
Following up on Zorro's excellent post, about the actions of Clinton crime syndicate.
Listen to Byron York's description of "The actions of foreign government meddling in a US Election".


(fast forward to minute 7:15)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E245klmCgo


It makes Mueller's independent counsel probe look like a joke.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Parsad on November 07, 2018, 12:58:41 PM
Watch out Zorrofan, some smart-... will soon tell you that: Two wrongs don't make a right!

That is one of their favorite sentence to shut any intelligent discussion and keep pushing further their agenda. No mention of degree, nor evidence.

Cardboard

Cardboard,

I just can't stand the hypocrisy! When the Left denounces the anti-Semitic statements of Louis Farrakhan and Ilhan Omar, when they acknowledge the many questionable actions of the Clintons,
the false alegations against Justice Kavanaugh, then and only then maybe they will start to earn some respect.  Sadly politics seems to sink to new lows with each passing year.

cheers
Zorro

You notice all the crickets, and what a ghost town it became when there was an equal opportunity to express all that fake "outrage" and "demand" an investigation into the sex assault claims against Mueller? Nope? They even joked about it. Or better yet, when it was revealed that there WERE blatant lies and fabrications from Kavanaugh accusers? Something these folks were told all along? Nope. Crickets. They're just clowns. That's why the fake outrage against Trump gets laughed at. They don't hate corruption, or guys who treat women like shit... they just hate Trump.... everyone sees through their bullshit facade.

It's not crickets...we just realize that you guys are going to believe whatever the hell you want to believe.  32 indictments and still Mueller is the fake news patsy.  Trump fires his attorney general, and still the Democrats are somehow the culprit.  I wasn't a supporter of Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton...but can you imagine what the outrage would have been if all of this happened during Clinton's administration?  You guys would bring back lynching if it happened under Obama.  But Trump...he gets a pass because he cut your taxes!  Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Parsad on November 07, 2018, 01:05:04 PM
Following up on Zorro's excellent post, about the actions of Clinton crime syndicate.
Listen to Byron York's description of "The actions of foreign government meddling in a US Election".


(fast forward to minute 7:15)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E245klmCgo


It makes Mueller's independent counsel probe look like a joke.

Again, I've never been a supporter of the Clintons, but somehow that's an excuse to disregard the rampant corruption within the Trump organization and the Trump administration.  Why does this always go back to the Clintons?  Because you really don't have much on Obama?  Do you want us to go back to the Bush administration...Carlyle group, et al?  Stop making excuses for the swamp that is the Trump administration because he improved your tax burden in the last two years.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 01:15:02 PM
Following up on Zorro's excellent post, about the actions of Clinton crime syndicate.
Listen to Byron York's description of "The actions of foreign government meddling in a US Election".


(fast forward to minute 7:15)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E245klmCgo


It makes Mueller's independent counsel probe look like a joke.

Again, I've never been a supporter of the Clintons, but somehow that's an excuse to disregard the rampant corruption within the Trump organization and the Trump administration.  Why does this always go back to the Clintons?  Because you really don't have much on Obama?  Do you want us to go back to the Bush administration...Carlyle group, et al?  Stop making excuses for the swamp that is the Trump administration because he improved your tax burden in the last two years.  Cheers!

Come on Parsad - the point is clear if you listen to York. A free press is not an unbiased press, not even close.
The Clinton corruption was so pervasive, along with Obama -- and totally ignored by a partisan press.
The DC swamp hates Trump - and he is a huge threat to the way the Swamp operates.

THAT IS the point - without a "free press" - you need someone like Trump to represent the people AND NOT THE SWAMP and get to the truth.

It's too bad it's so hard for you to see.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Cardboard on November 07, 2018, 01:26:45 PM
"You guys would bring back lynching if it happened under Obama."

This is clearly an unacceptable statement which I personally find very offensive as I have never been associated to racism. Not anywhere near close.

And regarding the media, one only had to listen to the latest press conference at lunch time. Complete disrespect and in return, they would like respect? Come on!

Imagine this under Obama Parsad?

Cardboard
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Zorrofan on November 07, 2018, 01:31:57 PM
Following up on Zorro's excellent post, about the actions of Clinton crime syndicate.
Listen to Byron York's description of "The actions of foreign government meddling in a US Election".


(fast forward to minute 7:15)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E245klmCgo


It makes Mueller's independent counsel probe look like a joke.

Again, I've never been a supporter of the Clintons, but somehow that's an excuse to disregard the rampant corruption within the Trump organization and the Trump administration.  Why does this always go back to the Clintons?  Because you really don't have much on Obama?  Do you want us to go back to the Bush administration...Carlyle group, et al?  Stop making excuses for the swamp that is the Trump administration because he improved your tax burden in the last two years.  Cheers!

Parsad,

It goes back to the Clinton's because Hilary ran against Trump. If the Democrats had picked anyone else in the entire country they would have likely won. I am not arguing that Trump is a perfect angel sent from down on high, I am simply sick of the hypocrisy so prevalent in politics today. 

You talk about the corruption of Trump -  I have yet to see your outrage at the anti-Semitic statements made by Louis Farrakhan and Ilhan Omar, at the false accusations made against Justice Kavanaugh or Elizabeth Warren's ridiculous claims to be a person of color (and an insult to the Cherokee Nation). Its ok for CNN to mock Kanye West because he is a Trump supporter and question his mental health? Or for Don Lemon to call white males in America terrorists? That's objective media reporting at its finest? Antifa riots in the streets but the Republican's are the Nazis? Time to take a long hard look at just who is in, and leading, the Democratic party. Once you do that then you can criticize Trump all you want.

Politics seems to sink to a new low each passing day, the US is divided as never before, and it saddens me.

cheers
Zorro
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Parsad on November 07, 2018, 01:52:02 PM
Following up on Zorro's excellent post, about the actions of Clinton crime syndicate.
Listen to Byron York's description of "The actions of foreign government meddling in a US Election".


(fast forward to minute 7:15)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E245klmCgo


It makes Mueller's independent counsel probe look like a joke.

Again, I've never been a supporter of the Clintons, but somehow that's an excuse to disregard the rampant corruption within the Trump organization and the Trump administration.  Why does this always go back to the Clintons?  Because you really don't have much on Obama?  Do you want us to go back to the Bush administration...Carlyle group, et al?  Stop making excuses for the swamp that is the Trump administration because he improved your tax burden in the last two years.  Cheers!
 

You talk about the corruption of Trump -  I have yet to see your outrage at the anti-Semitic statements made by Louis Farrakhan and Ilhan Omar, at the false accusations made against Justice Kavanaugh or Elizabeth Warren's ridiculous claims to be a person of color (and an insult to the Cherokee Nation). Its ok for CNN to mock Kanye West because he is a Trump supporter and question his mental health? Or for Don Lemon to call white males in America terrorists? That's objective media reporting at its finest? Antifa riots in the streets but the Republican's are the Nazis? Time to take a long hard look at just who is in, and leading, the Democratic party. Once you do that then you can criticize Trump all you want.

Politics seems to sink to a new low each passing day, the US is divided as never before, and it saddens me.

cheers
Zorro

The difference is that one is the President of the United States!  Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 07, 2018, 01:55:23 PM
The hell are you on about?

Trump is a sitting President. He represents the entire country. Get your priorities straight.

Quote
Once you do that then you can criticize Trump all you want.
LOL get a load of this guy  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Parsad on November 07, 2018, 02:01:44 PM
Following up on Zorro's excellent post, about the actions of Clinton crime syndicate.
Listen to Byron York's description of "The actions of foreign government meddling in a US Election".


(fast forward to minute 7:15)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E245klmCgo


It makes Mueller's independent counsel probe look like a joke.

Again, I've never been a supporter of the Clintons, but somehow that's an excuse to disregard the rampant corruption within the Trump organization and the Trump administration.  Why does this always go back to the Clintons?  Because you really don't have much on Obama?  Do you want us to go back to the Bush administration...Carlyle group, et al?  Stop making excuses for the swamp that is the Trump administration because he improved your tax burden in the last two years.  Cheers!

Come on Parsad - the point is clear if you listen to York. A free press is not an unbiased press, not even close.
The Clinton corruption was so pervasive, along with Obama -- and totally ignored by a partisan press.
The DC swamp hates Trump - and he is a huge threat to the way the Swamp operates.

THAT IS the point - without a "free press" - you need someone like Trump to represent the people AND NOT THE SWAMP and get to the truth.

It's too bad it's so hard for you to see.

More rhetoric.  The President treats the press as an enemy of the state...in fact, he treats Putin better than the press.  While Jim Acosta was rude this morning, did you see the crap coming out of Trump's mouth to Acosta and the other reporter next to him?  This is a dictator, childish bully, who ramrods his way through anything to get what he wants.  If he acted with an ounce of civility and integrity, the media would not be his enemy.  Even Fox News has a problem with his attacks on the media...but somehow I can't see it...Liberals can't see it.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Parsad on November 07, 2018, 02:03:55 PM
"You guys would bring back lynching if it happened under Obama."

This is clearly an unacceptable statement which I personally find very offensive as I have never been associated to racism. Not anywhere near close.

And regarding the media, one only had to listen to the latest press conference at lunch time. Complete disrespect and in return, they would like respect? Come on!

Imagine this under Obama Parsad?

Cardboard

I don't think most Germans expected to support genocide either, but when you have a populist movement, and the populace ignores the truth and doesn't keep power in check...you get horrendous consequences.  Those who willingly ignore some of Trump's attacks are in that camp whether they like it, know it or want to be a part of it.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Zorrofan on November 07, 2018, 02:17:00 PM
The hell are you on about?

Trump is a sitting President. He represents the entire country. Get your priorities straight.

Quote
Once you do that then you can criticize Trump all you want.
LOL get a load of this guy  ;D ;D ;D

So we can only criticize the Democrats once they are in power?  Go ahead, ignore all of the racist, bigoted and hateful things the Democrats are saying because, you know, Trump is bad. Oh wait, you just did.....
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 07, 2018, 02:21:55 PM
The hell are you on about?

Trump is a sitting President. He represents the entire country. Get your priorities straight.

Quote
Once you do that then you can criticize Trump all you want.
LOL get a load of this guy  ;D ;D ;D

So we can only criticize the Democrats once they are in power?  Go ahead, ignore all of the racist, bigoted and hateful things the Democrats are saying because, you know, Trump is bad. Oh wait, you just did.....
I have no idea what some lady who was just elected in Minnesota as a congresswoman in the House has to say, and I don't really care what she has to say, because she isn't my representative. Trump unfortunately does.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Zorrofan on November 07, 2018, 02:26:13 PM
The hell are you on about?

Trump is a sitting President. He represents the entire country. Get your priorities straight.

Quote
Once you do that then you can criticize Trump all you want.
LOL get a load of this guy  ;D ;D ;D

So we can only criticize the Democrats once they are in power?  Go ahead, ignore all of the racist, bigoted and hateful things the Democrats are saying because, you know, Trump is bad. Oh wait, you just did.....
I have no idea what some lady who was just elected in Minnesota as a congresswoman in the House has to say, and I don't really care what she has to say, because she isn't my representative. Trump unfortunately does.

The Democrats now control the house. If they refuse to reject the racism, antisemitism, and bigotry that runs rampant in the party they are just as bad.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 02:35:06 PM
Following up on Zorro's excellent post, about the actions of Clinton crime syndicate.
Listen to Byron York's description of "The actions of foreign government meddling in a US Election".


(fast forward to minute 7:15)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E245klmCgo


It makes Mueller's independent counsel probe look like a joke.

Again, I've never been a supporter of the Clintons, but somehow that's an excuse to disregard the rampant corruption within the Trump organization and the Trump administration.  Why does this always go back to the Clintons?  Because you really don't have much on Obama?  Do you want us to go back to the Bush administration...Carlyle group, et al?  Stop making excuses for the swamp that is the Trump administration because he improved your tax burden in the last two years.  Cheers!

Come on Parsad - the point is clear if you listen to York. A free press is not an unbiased press, not even close.
The Clinton corruption was so pervasive, along with Obama -- and totally ignored by a partisan press.
The DC swamp hates Trump - and he is a huge threat to the way the Swamp operates.

THAT IS the point - without a "free press" - you need someone like Trump to represent the people AND NOT THE SWAMP and get to the truth.

It's too bad it's so hard for you to see.

More rhetoric.  The President treats the press as an enemy of the state...in fact, he treats Putin better than the press.  While Jim Acosta was rude this morning, did you see the crap coming out of Trump's mouth to Acosta and the other reporter next to him?  This is a dictator, childish bully, who ramrods his way through anything to get what he wants.  If he acted with an ounce of civility and integrity, the media would not be his enemy.  Even Fox News has a problem with his attacks on the media...but somehow I can't see it...Liberals can't see it.  Cheers!

Right - a totally "biased press" that the President fights is an ally of the people. Sure it is. Acosta is the definition of propaganda news. Why should anyone show this press any respect?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 07, 2018, 02:50:07 PM
The Democrats now control the house. If they refuse to reject the racism, antisemitism, and bigotry that runs rampant in the party they are just as bad.
Hahahaha wow. Not even 24 hours in.

Trump's been President with a full republican congress for TWO YEARS.

Be better.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Zorrofan on November 07, 2018, 05:31:22 PM
The Democrats now control the house. If they refuse to reject the racism, antisemitism, and bigotry that runs rampant in the party they are just as bad.
Hahahaha wow. Not even 24 hours in.

Trump's been President with a full republican congress for TWO YEARS.

Be better.

The Democrats have had problems with racism, antisemitism, and bigotry for longer than the past two years.  However it seems that "progressives" are willing to overlook everything in their hatred of Trump. Obama has made thinly veiled comments calling Trump worse than Hitler. Really - worse than the man responsible for starting a war in which tens of millions died, including the genocide of over 6 million Jews? But hey I get it, Trump is bad, so lets use that as an excuse to ignore everything else.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 05:40:45 PM
But hey I get it, Trump is bad, so lets use that as an excuse to ignore everything else.

Sure, it's just fine to love Farrakhan, with his blatant anti-semitism - or hate Israel, like Obama did.
Heck, Obama like the mullahs in Iran and hated our best ally in the Middle East.

It's all backward. If we can get rid of Trump - we should ignore all the past nonsense!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 07, 2018, 05:43:48 PM
Quote
The Democrats have had problems with racism, antisemitism, and bigotry for longer than the past two years
Yes as evident from the Democrat's history of discouraging voting in minority districts, habit of gerrymandering in southern states, legislative history of restricting LGBT rights, lack of campaign donations from Jews.... Yes these are all characteristics of the Democratic party's historical problem with racism, anti-semitism, bigotry.   ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Spekulatius on November 07, 2018, 07:14:27 PM
Looks like the democrats took the House while republicans kept the Senate. Perhaps more of the tide coming in vs a tsunami.

Pretty good results as far as I'm concerned.  I prefer split government to any one party getting to do what they want.   Republicans have had both houses of Congress and the Presidency for two years and increased spending enormously.  That should be proof enough that anyone who thinks Republicans are for small/reduced/limited government are just kidding themselves.   With a US type two-party system gridlock is the best you can hope for IMHO.   Here's hoping nothing "gets done".

One thing is for sure, the stock market likes some adult supervision apparently (SPY up 2.12%). The cynic in me would say that the stock market likes a political impasse where the president can do absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 07, 2018, 07:20:39 PM
Of course the other big news aside from change in control of the House, is that Jeff Sessions has "resigned". Now, we don't know for sure why Sessions resigned, but I'm leaning towards this explanation:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/415628-schiff-its-abundantly-clear-sessions-was-forced-out-for-not-ending-mueller

Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Gregmal on November 07, 2018, 07:26:48 PM
Of course the other big news aside from change in control of the House, is that Jeff Sessions has "resigned". Now, we don't know for sure why Sessions resigned, but I'm leaning towards this explanation:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/415628-schiff-its-abundantly-clear-sessions-was-forced-out-for-not-ending-mueller

What a coincidence. You're leaning towards an anti-Trump explanation. Shocking!

Libs are already falling for it. Trump will goad them into wasting the next 2 years dicking around obsessing over his tax returns and Russia, and it will just further propel Republicans in 2020. I've never seen a political party so easily manipulated into sabotaging themselves. These fools are talking impeachment when not only do they not have 2/3's of the Senate, they don't even have 50%!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 07:35:53 PM
My gosh, the President gets to pick his own cabinet - his closest advisors. If he wanted Sessions to resign - so what?
He replaced Rex Tillerson, who I thought was great, with Mike Pompeo, who is fabulous.
Geez, let the President pick his own team.

It's no surprise at all that he was disappointed in Sessions.

Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: rb on November 07, 2018, 07:58:52 PM
Of course the other big news aside from change in control of the House, is that Jeff Sessions has "resigned". Now, we don't know for sure why Sessions resigned, but I'm leaning towards this explanation:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/415628-schiff-its-abundantly-clear-sessions-was-forced-out-for-not-ending-mueller

What a coincidence. You're leaning towards an anti-Trump explanation. Shocking!

Libs are already falling for it. Trump will goad them into wasting the next 2 years dicking around obsessing over his tax returns and Russia, and it will just further propel Republicans in 2020. I've never seen a political party so easily manipulated into sabotaging themselves. These fools are talking impeachment when not only do they not have 2/3's of the Senate, they don't even have 50%!
LOL, You think that what you read in an article is what democrats are going to do? Hell no. The democrats are going to do what Speaker Pelosi is gonna tell them to do. Sure some idiot Congressman will talk some nonsense to a camera somewhere but that's gonna be it. Let me put it this way. I am willing to lay a $10,000 bet with you right now that there will be no impeachment proceeding against President Trump.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 07, 2018, 08:09:11 PM
My gosh, the President gets to pick his own cabinet - his closest advisors. If he wanted Sessions to resign - so what?

Because the office of the AG is currently investigating Trump?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 08:15:42 PM
My gosh, the President gets to pick his own cabinet - his closest advisors. If he wanted Sessions to resign - so what?

Because the office of the AG is currently investigating Trump?

So what? You have Rod Rosenstein who appointed Robert Mueller. Rosenstein is both a witness and a potential criminal. You comfortable with that conflict?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 07, 2018, 08:19:12 PM
My gosh, the President gets to pick his own cabinet - his closest advisors. If he wanted Sessions to resign - so what?

Because the office of the AG is currently investigating Trump?

So what? You have Rod Rosenstein who appointed Robert Mueller. Rosenstein is both a witness and a potential criminal. You comfortable with that conflict?
Our president is a potential criminal so yeah I'm fine leaving Mueller in place as opposed to the Republicans attempts to subvert his investigation however they can.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 08:26:34 PM
My gosh, the President gets to pick his own cabinet - his closest advisors. If he wanted Sessions to resign - so what?

Because the office of the AG is currently investigating Trump?

So what? You have Rod Rosenstein who appointed Robert Mueller. Rosenstein is both a witness and a potential criminal. You comfortable with that conflict?
Our president is a potential criminal so yeah I'm fine leaving Mueller in place as opposed to the Republicans attempts to subvert his investigation however they can.

No - the DOJ and FBI are obstructing justice right now - they are not complying with congressional and presidential orders.

It's easy to see they are covering their asses because Rosenstein is in real trouble.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: michaelj on November 07, 2018, 08:41:35 PM
My gosh, the President gets to pick his own cabinet - his closest advisors. If he wanted Sessions to resign - so what?

Because the office of the AG is currently investigating Trump?

So what? You have Rod Rosenstein who appointed Robert Mueller. Rosenstein is both a witness and a potential criminal. You comfortable with that conflict?
Our president is a potential criminal so yeah I'm fine leaving Mueller in place as opposed to the Republicans attempts to subvert his investigation however they can.

No - the DOJ and FBI are obstructing justice right now - they are not complying with congressional and presidential orders.

It's easy to see they are covering their asses because Rosenstein is in real trouble.

Curious what you mean by real trouble.  Are you suggesting a contempt order/impeachment is plausible with a democratic controlled house?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 07, 2018, 08:47:52 PM
Yeah they;re the criminals here, keep believing that
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 09:04:04 PM
My gosh, the President gets to pick his own cabinet - his closest advisors. If he wanted Sessions to resign - so what?

Because the office of the AG is currently investigating Trump?

So what? You have Rod Rosenstein who appointed Robert Mueller. Rosenstein is both a witness and a potential criminal. You comfortable with that conflict?
Our president is a potential criminal so yeah I'm fine leaving Mueller in place as opposed to the Republicans attempts to subvert his investigation however they can.

No - the DOJ and FBI are obstructing justice right now - they are not complying with congressional and presidential orders.

It's easy to see they are covering their asses because Rosenstein is in real trouble.

Curious what you mean by real trouble.  Are you suggesting a contempt order/impeachment is plausible with a democratic controlled house?

I'm saying that the DOJ has been ordered to turn over the FISA warrants and background that were intentionally built on phony
information, that the FBI knew about - but the DOJ did not tell the FISA court. Because it's a Presidential order the DOJ was obligated
to do in about 5 days. It's now been 2 months. Rosenstein's boss, Sessions, recused himself. Rosenstein is stalling and forcing
a showdown. Rosenstein is hiding the fact that he knew he was lying to the FISA court judges.

Will he be impeached, etc - when the details are delivered to the public, as Trump has ordered? - I'll be happy if he just
resigns in disgrace like so many of the other corrupt DOJ and FBI officials have - once their actions came to light.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Parsad on November 07, 2018, 09:13:22 PM
But hey I get it, Trump is bad, so lets use that as an excuse to ignore everything else.

Sure, it's just fine to love Farrakhan, with his blatant anti-semitism - or hate Israel, like Obama did.
Heck, Obama like the mullahs in Iran and hated our best ally in the Middle East.

It's all backward. If we can get rid of Trump - we should ignore all the past nonsense!

That's the intellectual equivalent of saying that Trump is hard on Canada, so he hates Canadians.  I have enough sense to understand he's just making a deal to try and get what he needs.  Not dissimilar to what the Obama administration was trying to get done in the Middle East.  But keep believing what you do. 

By the way, I'm not trying to defend anything Bush Jr, the Clintons or Obama did...but an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind, and this President is poking eye sockets like none before him.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Parsad on November 07, 2018, 09:19:17 PM
Of course the other big news aside from change in control of the House, is that Jeff Sessions has "resigned". Now, we don't know for sure why Sessions resigned, but I'm leaning towards this explanation:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/415628-schiff-its-abundantly-clear-sessions-was-forced-out-for-not-ending-mueller

What a coincidence. You're leaning towards an anti-Trump explanation. Shocking!

Libs are already falling for it. Trump will goad them into wasting the next 2 years dicking around obsessing over his tax returns and Russia, and it will just further propel Republicans in 2020. I've never seen a political party so easily manipulated into sabotaging themselves. These fools are talking impeachment when not only do they not have 2/3's of the Senate, they don't even have 50%!

And you think Sessions actually resigned willingly, after reiterating time and again that he would not resign.  Trump Jr. is next...and Trump had to fire Sessions and end the investigation before his son goes down...but he couldn't take the chance before the mid-term elections.  The investigation will be terminated after Mueller is either dismissed or his funding exhausted.  Democrats will cry to high hell and Republicans will slowly excuse and dismiss the entire event...and the biggest turd in the Washington swamp will remain in power.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 09:23:00 PM
But hey I get it, Trump is bad, so lets use that as an excuse to ignore everything else.

Sure, it's just fine to love Farrakhan, with his blatant anti-semitism - or hate Israel, like Obama did.
Heck, Obama like the mullahs in Iran and hated our best ally in the Middle East.

It's all backward. If we can get rid of Trump - we should ignore all the past nonsense!

That's the intellectual equivalent of saying that Trump is hard on Canada, so he hates Canadians.  I have enough sense to understand he's just making a deal to try and get what he needs.  Not dissimilar to what the Obama administration was trying to get done in the Middle East.  But keep believing what you do. 

By the way, I'm not trying to defend anything Bush Jr, the Clintons or Obama did...but an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind, and this President is poking eye sockets like none before him.  Cheers!

Yea, what was Obama trying to do it the Middle East? Give the Iranians $400B so they could conduct more terrorism
in the region - and continue their nuke program. That's what he did - all the while pissing on our best ally Israel.
Another gem of Obama foreign policy - worse than the Syrian "red line in the sand" for the Russians.
Talk about Putin's buddy! More like Putin's pushover!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 09:26:05 PM
Of course the other big news aside from change in control of the House, is that Jeff Sessions has "resigned". Now, we don't know for sure why Sessions resigned, but I'm leaning towards this explanation:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/415628-schiff-its-abundantly-clear-sessions-was-forced-out-for-not-ending-mueller

What a coincidence. You're leaning towards an anti-Trump explanation. Shocking!

Libs are already falling for it. Trump will goad them into wasting the next 2 years dicking around obsessing over his tax returns and Russia, and it will just further propel Republicans in 2020. I've never seen a political party so easily manipulated into sabotaging themselves. These fools are talking impeachment when not only do they not have 2/3's of the Senate, they don't even have 50%!

And you think Sessions actually resigned willingly, after reiterating time and again that he would not resign.  Trump Jr. is next...and Trump had to fire Sessions and end the investigation before his son goes down...but he couldn't take the chance before the mid-term elections.  The investigation will be terminated after Mueller is either dismissed or his funding exhausted.  Democrats will cry to high hell and Republicans will slowly excuse and dismiss the entire event...and the biggest turd in the Washington swamp will remain in power.  Cheers!

So now 2 years into this fiasco, Mueller has nothing. What's your point?  Mueller needs more time? For what?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: rb on November 07, 2018, 09:34:06 PM
So now 2 years into this fiasco, Mueller has nothing. What's your point?  Mueller needs more time? For what?
Well... Mueller has how many indictments? And, since you like to talk about the Clintons so much... 2 years into Whitewater the special prosecutor had exactly what?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: michaelj on November 07, 2018, 09:36:34 PM
Of course the other big news aside from change in control of the House, is that Jeff Sessions has "resigned". Now, we don't know for sure why Sessions resigned, but I'm leaning towards this explanation:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/415628-schiff-its-abundantly-clear-sessions-was-forced-out-for-not-ending-mueller

What a coincidence. You're leaning towards an anti-Trump explanation. Shocking!

Libs are already falling for it. Trump will goad them into wasting the next 2 years dicking around obsessing over his tax returns and Russia, and it will just further propel Republicans in 2020. I've never seen a political party so easily manipulated into sabotaging themselves. These fools are talking impeachment when not only do they not have 2/3's of the Senate, they don't even have 50%!

And you think Sessions actually resigned willingly, after reiterating time and again that he would not resign.  Trump Jr. is next...and Trump had to fire Sessions and end the investigation before his son goes down...but he couldn't take the chance before the mid-term elections.  The investigation will be terminated after Mueller is either dismissed or his funding exhausted.  Democrats will cry to high hell and Republicans will slowly excuse and dismiss the entire event...and the biggest turd in the Washington swamp will remain in power.  Cheers!

So now 2 years into this fiasco, Mueller has nothing. What's your point?  Mueller needs more time? For what?

I never understand this argument. He's issued 35 indictments and is preparing a comprehensive report.  He's moving swifter than past special counsels. I get that it's a distraction, but if he issues a report clearing the campaign, isn't that better than the perpetual cloud that would hover over the presidency if the investigation was wrapped prematurely?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 09:44:23 PM
Of course the other big news aside from change in control of the House, is that Jeff Sessions has "resigned". Now, we don't know for sure why Sessions resigned, but I'm leaning towards this explanation:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/415628-schiff-its-abundantly-clear-sessions-was-forced-out-for-not-ending-mueller

What a coincidence. You're leaning towards an anti-Trump explanation. Shocking!

Libs are already falling for it. Trump will goad them into wasting the next 2 years dicking around obsessing over his tax returns and Russia, and it will just further propel Republicans in 2020. I've never seen a political party so easily manipulated into sabotaging themselves. These fools are talking impeachment when not only do they not have 2/3's of the Senate, they don't even have 50%!

And you think Sessions actually resigned willingly, after reiterating time and again that he would not resign.  Trump Jr. is next...and Trump had to fire Sessions and end the investigation before his son goes down...but he couldn't take the chance before the mid-term elections.  The investigation will be terminated after Mueller is either dismissed or his funding exhausted.  Democrats will cry to high hell and Republicans will slowly excuse and dismiss the entire event...and the biggest turd in the Washington swamp will remain in power.  Cheers!

So now 2 years into this fiasco, Mueller has nothing. What's your point?  Mueller needs more time? For what?

I never understand this argument. He's issued 35 indictments and is preparing a comprehensive report.  He's moving swifter than past special counsels. I get that it's a distraction, but if he issues a report clearing the campaign, isn't that better than the perpetual cloud that would hover over the presidency if the investigation was wrapped prematurely?

Where are the indictments against Storcz, Page and McCabe? 
Doesn't the Mueller investigation smell just slightly partisan to you?
Is there no cloud over the FBI and DOJ for their blatant attempts to fix the election?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Parsad on November 07, 2018, 09:58:22 PM
But hey I get it, Trump is bad, so lets use that as an excuse to ignore everything else.

Sure, it's just fine to love Farrakhan, with his blatant anti-semitism - or hate Israel, like Obama did.
Heck, Obama like the mullahs in Iran and hated our best ally in the Middle East.

It's all backward. If we can get rid of Trump - we should ignore all the past nonsense!

That's the intellectual equivalent of saying that Trump is hard on Canada, so he hates Canadians.  I have enough sense to understand he's just making a deal to try and get what he needs.  Not dissimilar to what the Obama administration was trying to get done in the Middle East.  But keep believing what you do. 

By the way, I'm not trying to defend anything Bush Jr, the Clintons or Obama did...but an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind, and this President is poking eye sockets like none before him.  Cheers!

Yea, what was Obama trying to do it the Middle East? Give the Iranians $400B so they could conduct more terrorism
in the region - and continue their nuke program. That's what he did - all the while pissing on our best ally Israel.
Another gem of Obama foreign policy - worse than the Syrian "red line in the sand" for the Russians.
Talk about Putin's buddy! More like Putin's pushover!

I wasn't defending what Obama was trying to do in the Middle East, nor did I say I agree with what he was trying to do.  But you are justifying Trump's behavior by what Obama did or didn't do.  Do you think that is rational?  Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: michaelj on November 07, 2018, 10:01:04 PM
Of course the other big news aside from change in control of the House, is that Jeff Sessions has "resigned". Now, we don't know for sure why Sessions resigned, but I'm leaning towards this explanation:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/415628-schiff-its-abundantly-clear-sessions-was-forced-out-for-not-ending-mueller

What a coincidence. You're leaning towards an anti-Trump explanation. Shocking!

Libs are already falling for it. Trump will goad them into wasting the next 2 years dicking around obsessing over his tax returns and Russia, and it will just further propel Republicans in 2020. I've never seen a political party so easily manipulated into sabotaging themselves. These fools are talking impeachment when not only do they not have 2/3's of the Senate, they don't even have 50%!

And you think Sessions actually resigned willingly, after reiterating time and again that he would not resign.  Trump Jr. is next...and Trump had to fire Sessions and end the investigation before his son goes down...but he couldn't take the chance before the mid-term elections.  The investigation will be terminated after Mueller is either dismissed or his funding exhausted.  Democrats will cry to high hell and Republicans will slowly excuse and dismiss the entire event...and the biggest turd in the Washington swamp will remain in power.  Cheers!

So now 2 years into this fiasco, Mueller has nothing. What's your point?  Mueller needs more time? For what?

I never understand this argument. He's issued 35 indictments and is preparing a comprehensive report.  He's moving swifter than past special counsels. I get that it's a distraction, but if he issues a report clearing the campaign, isn't that better than the perpetual cloud that would hover over the presidency if the investigation was wrapped prematurely?

Where are the indictments against Storcz, Page and McCabe? 
Doesn't the Mueller investigation smell just slightly partisan to you?
Is there no cloud over the FBI and DOJ for their blatant attempts to fix the election?

Another argument I never can understand.  The FBI broke with tradition to announce it was re-opening the HRC investigation DAYS before the election, while not disclosing an active investigation of the Trump campaign!  How is that possibly an attempt to fix an election?  And what crimes did Storcz et al commit?  Being in possession of poor judgement and a political opinion? 
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: michaelj on November 07, 2018, 10:03:58 PM
Of course the other big news aside from change in control of the House, is that Jeff Sessions has "resigned". Now, we don't know for sure why Sessions resigned, but I'm leaning towards this explanation:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/415628-schiff-its-abundantly-clear-sessions-was-forced-out-for-not-ending-mueller

What a coincidence. You're leaning towards an anti-Trump explanation. Shocking!

Libs are already falling for it. Trump will goad them into wasting the next 2 years dicking around obsessing over his tax returns and Russia, and it will just further propel Republicans in 2020. I've never seen a political party so easily manipulated into sabotaging themselves. These fools are talking impeachment when not only do they not have 2/3's of the Senate, they don't even have 50%!

And you think Sessions actually resigned willingly, after reiterating time and again that he would not resign.  Trump Jr. is next...and Trump had to fire Sessions and end the investigation before his son goes down...but he couldn't take the chance before the mid-term elections.  The investigation will be terminated after Mueller is either dismissed or his funding exhausted.  Democrats will cry to high hell and Republicans will slowly excuse and dismiss the entire event...and the biggest turd in the Washington swamp will remain in power.  Cheers!

So now 2 years into this fiasco, Mueller has nothing. What's your point?  Mueller needs more time? For what?

I never understand this argument. He's issued 35 indictments and is preparing a comprehensive report.  He's moving swifter than past special counsels. I get that it's a distraction, but if he issues a report clearing the campaign, isn't that better than the perpetual cloud that would hover over the presidency if the investigation was wrapped prematurely?

Where are the indictments against Storcz, Page and McCabe? 
Doesn't the Mueller investigation smell just slightly partisan to you?
Is there no cloud over the FBI and DOJ for their blatant attempts to fix the election?

Another argument I never can understand.  The FBI broke with tradition to announce it was re-opening the HRC investigation DAYS before the election, while not disclosing an active investigation of the Trump campaign!  How is that possibly an attempt to fix an election?  And what crimes did Storcz et al commit?  Being in possession of poor judgement and a political opinion?

I think that Trump sees everything under the sun through a political lens, and through the magic of projection, can't fathom how any person, let alone a man with as sterling a reputation as Robert Mueller (a lifelong republican), could possibly take a non-partisan approach to public service.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 10:04:31 PM
But hey I get it, Trump is bad, so lets use that as an excuse to ignore everything else.

Sure, it's just fine to love Farrakhan, with his blatant anti-semitism - or hate Israel, like Obama did.
Heck, Obama like the mullahs in Iran and hated our best ally in the Middle East.

It's all backward. If we can get rid of Trump - we should ignore all the past nonsense!

That's the intellectual equivalent of saying that Trump is hard on Canada, so he hates Canadians.  I have enough sense to understand he's just making a deal to try and get what he needs.  Not dissimilar to what the Obama administration was trying to get done in the Middle East.  But keep believing what you do. 

By the way, I'm not trying to defend anything Bush Jr, the Clintons or Obama did...but an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind, and this President is poking eye sockets like none before him.  Cheers!

Yea, what was Obama trying to do it the Middle East? Give the Iranians $400B so they could conduct more terrorism
in the region - and continue their nuke program. That's what he did - all the while pissing on our best ally Israel.
Another gem of Obama foreign policy - worse than the Syrian "red line in the sand" for the Russians.
Talk about Putin's buddy! More like Putin's pushover!

I wasn't defending what Obama was trying to do in the Middle East, nor did I say I agree with what he was trying to do.  But you are justifying Trump's behavior by what Obama did or didn't do.  Do you think that is rational?  Cheers!

I certainly think it's rational to defend a President when the press disgraces themselves like they did today.
Jim Acosta is truly an idiot.  Then some chick tells the President he's a white supremacist. These people are disgusting.
The media in the US is a joke - and if the President points it out - more power to him.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Parsad on November 07, 2018, 10:06:19 PM
So now 2 years into this fiasco, Mueller has nothing. What's your point?  Mueller needs more time? For what?
Well... Mueller has how many indictments? And, since you like to talk about the Clintons so much... 2 years into Whitewater the special prosecutor had exactly what?

I disagree on this point, just so the Trump advisory committee on here can't call me partisan.  I'm not sure Clinton and Trump aren't cut from a similar cloth...privileged, spoiled, cheating, egotistical men who associate on occasion with unsavory people.  The worst thing Hilary Clinton did was stick it out with Bill and lose all respect...otherwise, she probably would be President today.  But, she is as compromised as anyone else, and people knew it.

But again, what do the Clinton's have to do with Trump's lies, mis-steps, behavior and the current investigation against Trump and his cohorts.  You've got indictments coming out like a bag of Skittles with a hole in it, and all the Trump advisory committee can do is point a finger at the Clintons or Obama.  Don't make excuses for the turd, otherwise it will end up on the bottom of your shoe!  Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Parsad on November 07, 2018, 10:10:38 PM
But hey I get it, Trump is bad, so lets use that as an excuse to ignore everything else.

Sure, it's just fine to love Farrakhan, with his blatant anti-semitism - or hate Israel, like Obama did.
Heck, Obama like the mullahs in Iran and hated our best ally in the Middle East.

It's all backward. If we can get rid of Trump - we should ignore all the past nonsense!

That's the intellectual equivalent of saying that Trump is hard on Canada, so he hates Canadians.  I have enough sense to understand he's just making a deal to try and get what he needs.  Not dissimilar to what the Obama administration was trying to get done in the Middle East.  But keep believing what you do. 

By the way, I'm not trying to defend anything Bush Jr, the Clintons or Obama did...but an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind, and this President is poking eye sockets like none before him.  Cheers!

Yea, what was Obama trying to do it the Middle East? Give the Iranians $400B so they could conduct more terrorism
in the region - and continue their nuke program. That's what he did - all the while pissing on our best ally Israel.
Another gem of Obama foreign policy - worse than the Syrian "red line in the sand" for the Russians.
Talk about Putin's buddy! More like Putin's pushover!

I wasn't defending what Obama was trying to do in the Middle East, nor did I say I agree with what he was trying to do.  But you are justifying Trump's behavior by what Obama did or didn't do.  Do you think that is rational?  Cheers!

I certainly think it's rational to defend a President when the press disgraces themselves like they did today.
Jim Acosta is truly an idiot.  Then some chick tells the President he's a white supremacist. These people are disgusting.
The media in the US is a joke - and if the President points it out - more power to him.

I agree with you Acosta was a dick, and the whole Nationalist issue has been harped to death.  But I'm not sure the rest of the press deserved the scorn of the President, nor was there any need to insult the guy who came to Acosta's defence as a diligent reporter.  Again, you can make excuses for Trump's behavior, but deep down you know he was just acting like a real prick today...pouting, shouting, insulting, deflecting and threatening.  The President is just a plain ole' as*hole!  Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 10:13:01 PM
Of course the other big news aside from change in control of the House, is that Jeff Sessions has "resigned". Now, we don't know for sure why Sessions resigned, but I'm leaning towards this explanation:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/415628-schiff-its-abundantly-clear-sessions-was-forced-out-for-not-ending-mueller

What a coincidence. You're leaning towards an anti-Trump explanation. Shocking!

Libs are already falling for it. Trump will goad them into wasting the next 2 years dicking around obsessing over his tax returns and Russia, and it will just further propel Republicans in 2020. I've never seen a political party so easily manipulated into sabotaging themselves. These fools are talking impeachment when not only do they not have 2/3's of the Senate, they don't even have 50%!

And you think Sessions actually resigned willingly, after reiterating time and again that he would not resign.  Trump Jr. is next...and Trump had to fire Sessions and end the investigation before his son goes down...but he couldn't take the chance before the mid-term elections.  The investigation will be terminated after Mueller is either dismissed or his funding exhausted.  Democrats will cry to high hell and Republicans will slowly excuse and dismiss the entire event...and the biggest turd in the Washington swamp will remain in power.  Cheers!

So now 2 years into this fiasco, Mueller has nothing. What's your point?  Mueller needs more time? For what?

I never understand this argument. He's issued 35 indictments and is preparing a comprehensive report.  He's moving swifter than past special counsels. I get that it's a distraction, but if he issues a report clearing the campaign, isn't that better than the perpetual cloud that would hover over the presidency if the investigation was wrapped prematurely?

Where are the indictments against Storcz, Page and McCabe? 
Doesn't the Mueller investigation smell just slightly partisan to you?
Is there no cloud over the FBI and DOJ for their blatant attempts to fix the election?

Another argument I never can understand.  The FBI broke with tradition to announce it was re-opening the HRC investigation DAYS before the election, while not disclosing an active investigation of the Trump campaign!  How is that possibly an attempt to fix an election?  And what crimes did Storcz et al commit?  Being in possession of poor judgement and a political opinion?

Political opinion? That's putting it mildly!  Strocz was conducting the investigations and fixing them!

Are you kidding me - the "impartial" FBI admitted multiple times they hated Trump and had "insurance" in case Trump
got elected. There are hundreds of text msgs between Storcz and Page. They resigned in disgraced. They were
conducting an "impartial investigation". Storcz, the SAME investigator that "interviewed" Hillary Clinton and gave
her a pass on destruction of evidence and obstruction of justice. Don't you remember - "Go easy on her, she's going to be
the next President" Text?

Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 10:17:53 PM
Of course the other big news aside from change in control of the House, is that Jeff Sessions has "resigned". Now, we don't know for sure why Sessions resigned, but I'm leaning towards this explanation:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/415628-schiff-its-abundantly-clear-sessions-was-forced-out-for-not-ending-mueller

What a coincidence. You're leaning towards an anti-Trump explanation. Shocking!

Libs are already falling for it. Trump will goad them into wasting the next 2 years dicking around obsessing over his tax returns and Russia, and it will just further propel Republicans in 2020. I've never seen a political party so easily manipulated into sabotaging themselves. These fools are talking impeachment when not only do they not have 2/3's of the Senate, they don't even have 50%!

And you think Sessions actually resigned willingly, after reiterating time and again that he would not resign.  Trump Jr. is next...and Trump had to fire Sessions and end the investigation before his son goes down...but he couldn't take the chance before the mid-term elections.  The investigation will be terminated after Mueller is either dismissed or his funding exhausted.  Democrats will cry to high hell and Republicans will slowly excuse and dismiss the entire event...and the biggest turd in the Washington swamp will remain in power.  Cheers!

So now 2 years into this fiasco, Mueller has nothing. What's your point?  Mueller needs more time? For what?

I never understand this argument. He's issued 35 indictments and is preparing a comprehensive report.  He's moving swifter than past special counsels. I get that it's a distraction, but if he issues a report clearing the campaign, isn't that better than the perpetual cloud that would hover over the presidency if the investigation was wrapped prematurely?

Where are the indictments against Storcz, Page and McCabe? 
Doesn't the Mueller investigation smell just slightly partisan to you?
Is there no cloud over the FBI and DOJ for their blatant attempts to fix the election?

Another argument I never can understand.  The FBI broke with tradition to announce it was re-opening the HRC investigation DAYS before the election, while not disclosing an active investigation of the Trump campaign!  How is that possibly an attempt to fix an election?  And what crimes did Storcz et al commit?  Being in possession of poor judgement and a political opinion?

I think that Trump sees everything under the sun through a political lens, and through the magic of projection, can't fathom how any person, let alone a man with as sterling a reputation as Robert Mueller (a lifelong republican), could possibly take a non-partisan approach to public service.

That's fine. Let Mueller finish. But Rosenstein is obstructing justice, that is clear. He should be fired. The PUBLIC has a right
to see those FISA documents and all the supporting materials. Congress and the President have ordered it. Let the PUBLIC
see the documents and everyone can make their own conclusions.

The DOJ is not releasing those documents, just like all those other docs, when they get released - the corruption becomes apparent - and the bad actors get fired.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: BG2008 on November 07, 2018, 10:19:49 PM
Does anyone invest any more?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: rb on November 07, 2018, 10:30:33 PM
Does anyone invest any more?
I bought some BK the other day. How about you?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Parsad on November 07, 2018, 10:33:20 PM
Does anyone invest any more?

Wrong board!  This is where we vent about politics to keep it off the investing boards.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 07, 2018, 10:35:00 PM
Does anyone invest any more?

BG - I hope you are hitting those weights big guy! Better than wasting time on the political thread!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: rb on November 07, 2018, 10:57:03 PM
So now 2 years into this fiasco, Mueller has nothing. What's your point?  Mueller needs more time? For what?
Well... Mueller has how many indictments? And, since you like to talk about the Clintons so much... 2 years into Whitewater the special prosecutor had exactly what?

I disagree on this point, just so the Trump advisory committee on here can't call me partisan.  I'm not sure Clinton and Trump aren't cut from a similar cloth...privileged, spoiled, cheating, egotistical men who associate on occasion with unsavory people.  The worst thing Hilary Clinton did was stick it out with Bill and lose all respect...otherwise, she probably would be President today.  But, she is as compromised as anyone else, and people knew it.

But again, what do the Clinton's have to do with Trump's lies, mis-steps, behavior and the current investigation against Trump and his cohorts.  You've got indictments coming out like a bag of Skittles with a hole in it, and all the Trump advisory committee can do is point a finger at the Clintons or Obama.  Don't make excuses for the turd, otherwise it will end up on the bottom of your shoe!  Cheers!
I'd say that I agree with you and what you say in general terms.

I'd disagree about privilege. Clinton had to use an outhouse. Trump received from his dad a bankroll that could choke a horse.

The sex stuff I don't really care much about. I guess what you say about Hilary and staying with Bill is true. But that's more of a thing for the housewives of America than for me to worry about. For the Trump advisory committee, I don't really care how many porn stars Trump shtupps either. If I really care at all about the sex stuff is about the family values Jesus people who are always glad to tell people how they should live their lives and what to do with their privates. But their guy gets mulligans. Get outta here!

My post was mainly in reply to cubsfan who always has a stick to chew about the Clintons but is exasperated with the length about the Muller investigation. I merely wanted to point out that while the Muller investigation at this point has a significant number of indictments, the Whitewater investigation at this point had none. Despite that the Whitewater investigation went on for years after that. What it found out in the end is that the President lied about getting a blowjob. The act itself of course happened years after Whitewater and had nothing to do with real estate.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you want to bitch about the Clintons then shut up about Bob Muller. You can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: BG2008 on November 07, 2018, 11:29:17 PM
Does anyone invest any more?

BG - I hope you are hitting those weights big guy! Better than wasting time on the political thread!

I bought a Peloton.  It's awesome!  You can snoop around the Facebook group to get a sense of how it works.  They have studios where you can test ride.  It's great for a work from home guy to just jump on the bike and get a 45 min work out in.  I'll let you guys get back to politics. 
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Read the Footnotes on November 08, 2018, 04:49:38 AM
Does anyone invest any more?

BG - I hope you are hitting those weights big guy! Better than wasting time on the political thread!

I bought a Peloton.  It's awesome!  You can snoop around the Facebook group to get a sense of how it works.  They have studios where you can test ride.  It's great for a work from home guy to just jump on the bike and get a 45 min work out in.  I'll let you guys get back to politics.

Sanjeev, would you consider creating a separate exercise category? I come to The Corner of Berkshire and Fairfax to read about politics and I'm tired of all this exercise talk drowning out the political discussions.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: rkbabang on November 08, 2018, 05:47:58 AM
So now 2 years into this fiasco, Mueller has nothing. What's your point?  Mueller needs more time? For what?
Well... Mueller has how many indictments? And, since you like to talk about the Clintons so much... 2 years into Whitewater the special prosecutor had exactly what?

So he should sit around and hope for Trump to do an intern in the Oval Office?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 08, 2018, 06:25:16 AM
So now 2 years into this fiasco, Mueller has nothing. What's your point?  Mueller needs more time? For what?
Well... Mueller has how many indictments? And, since you like to talk about the Clintons so much... 2 years into Whitewater the special prosecutor had exactly what?

I disagree on this point, just so the Trump advisory committee on here can't call me partisan.  I'm not sure Clinton and Trump aren't cut from a similar cloth...privileged, spoiled, cheating, egotistical men who associate on occasion with unsavory people.  The worst thing Hilary Clinton did was stick it out with Bill and lose all respect...otherwise, she probably would be President today.  But, she is as compromised as anyone else, and people knew it.

But again, what do the Clinton's have to do with Trump's lies, mis-steps, behavior and the current investigation against Trump and his cohorts.  You've got indictments coming out like a bag of Skittles with a hole in it, and all the Trump advisory committee can do is point a finger at the Clintons or Obama.  Don't make excuses for the turd, otherwise it will end up on the bottom of your shoe!  Cheers!
I'd say that I agree with you and what you say in general terms.

I'd disagree about privilege. Clinton had to use an outhouse. Trump received from his dad a bankroll that could choke a horse.

The sex stuff I don't really care much about. I guess what you say about Hilary and staying with Bill is true. But that's more of a thing for the housewives of America than for me to worry about. For the Trump advisory committee, I don't really care how many porn stars Trump shtupps either. If I really care at all about the sex stuff is about the family values Jesus people who are always glad to tell people how they should live their lives and what to do with their privates. But their guy gets mulligans. Get outta here!

My post was mainly in reply to cubsfan who always has a stick to chew about the Clintons but is exasperated with the length about the Muller investigation. I merely wanted to point out that while the Muller investigation at this point has a significant number of indictments, the Whitewater investigation at this point had none. Despite that the Whitewater investigation went on for years after that. What it found out in the end is that the President lied about getting a blowjob. The act itself of course happened years after Whitewater and had nothing to do with real estate.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you want to bitch about the Clintons then shut up about Bob Muller. You can't have it both ways.

RB - you are missing the point I was trying to make with my original post here:

Following up on Zorro's excellent post, about the actions of Clinton crime syndicate.
Listen to Byron York's description of "The actions of foreign government meddling in a US Election".


(fast forward to minute 7:15)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E245klmCgo

If you will listen to the Byron York account of the Clinton episode, it provides the context that in one case,
a partisan press is not acting in the interest of the American people. That's all I was trying to say. It's really pretty simple.
Why don't you give it a shot? Perhaps you will see my point.

My comments had nothing to do with Whitewater or Monica Lewinsky at all.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: investor-man on November 08, 2018, 06:32:24 AM
Does anyone invest any more?

Wrong board!  This is where we vent about politics to keep it off the investing boards.  Cheers!

I remember asking you to create this section for exactly this purpose. I did not expect that I'd reflect on investing so much while reading through it. I The mind gymnastics in this thread are incredible...
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Gregmal on November 08, 2018, 10:45:51 AM
https://nypost.com/2018/11/07/jim-acosta-violated-one-of-the-oldest-rules-of-journalism/

"There was a time not long ago when young journalists were taught not to become the story. Apparently, many news organizations have flipped that lesson on its head.

But we are witnessing something more insidious here than media trash talk. Plain and simple, we are watching expressions of personal hatred.

Yes, itís true that most journalists lean far left and their bias sticks out like so many sore thumbs. Thatís been true for a long time, but political bias is an insufficient explanation for the Jim Acostas of our time.

They hate Trump. They really, really hate him. Thereís nothing professional about it.

They are not alone. Take a poll of almost any major newsroom in America and the vast majority of those working there, if they are being honest, will confess that they too canít stand the existence or the sound of Trump.

Or try to imagine Acosta and his ilk behaving in similarly hostile fashion toward Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton. Keep trying, but you canít imagine it because it never happened. Both of those pols lied to journalists repeatedly, yet you can bet 90 percent still voted straight Democratic.
"
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 08, 2018, 11:40:44 AM
The First Amendment protects the pressís right to report the news and the publicís right to receive that news. The government cannot punish or threaten the press or individuals based on the content of what is reported.

There is actually a lawsuit pending alleging that Trump is violating the First Amendment of members of the press by using the powers of his office to curtail criticism. As I reported last month, ďPENís lawsuit is not brought on behalf of those whom Trump threatened (e.g., The Post, Time Warner). Instead, it alleges: ĎDefendantís use of the power and machinery of government to punish his media critics creates an atmosphere in which journalists must work under the threat of government retaliation. This environment, underscored by Defendant Trumpís campaign of intimidation against critical reporting, casts a chill on speech that ó even if braved and overcome by diligent and courageous reporters ó constitutes an ongoing First Amendment violation.'Ē

Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: michaelj on November 08, 2018, 11:43:16 AM
https://nypost.com/2018/11/07/jim-acosta-violated-one-of-the-oldest-rules-of-journalism/

"There was a time not long ago when young journalists were taught not to become the story. Apparently, many news organizations have flipped that lesson on its head.

But we are witnessing something more insidious here than media trash talk. Plain and simple, we are watching expressions of personal hatred.

Yes, itís true that most journalists lean far left and their bias sticks out like so many sore thumbs. Thatís been true for a long time, but political bias is an insufficient explanation for the Jim Acostas of our time.

They hate Trump. They really, really hate him. Thereís nothing professional about it.

They are not alone. Take a poll of almost any major newsroom in America and the vast majority of those working there, if they are being honest, will confess that they too canít stand the existence or the sound of Trump.

Or try to imagine Acosta and his ilk behaving in similarly hostile fashion toward Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton. Keep trying, but you canít imagine it because it never happened. Both of those pols lied to journalists repeatedly, yet you can bet 90 percent still voted straight Democratic.
"

While I certainly don't think journalists have an obligation to be "nice" to the President,  I did find Acosta's approach here distasteful.  What I found even more distasteful however, was the WH doctoring a video to fit a narrative (a section was sped up to make it look like Acosta's arm was moving in a rapid "chopping" motion), and then citing that action as partial reason to pull a press pass.  I'm curious to hear if there are folks who will defend the doctoring of a video by the WH?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: rkbabang on November 08, 2018, 11:48:10 AM
https://nypost.com/2018/11/07/jim-acosta-violated-one-of-the-oldest-rules-of-journalism/

"There was a time not long ago when young journalists were taught not to become the story. Apparently, many news organizations have flipped that lesson on its head.

But we are witnessing something more insidious here than media trash talk. Plain and simple, we are watching expressions of personal hatred.

Yes, itís true that most journalists lean far left and their bias sticks out like so many sore thumbs. Thatís been true for a long time, but political bias is an insufficient explanation for the Jim Acostas of our time.

They hate Trump. They really, really hate him. Thereís nothing professional about it.

They are not alone. Take a poll of almost any major newsroom in America and the vast majority of those working there, if they are being honest, will confess that they too canít stand the existence or the sound of Trump.

Or try to imagine Acosta and his ilk behaving in similarly hostile fashion toward Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton. Keep trying, but you canít imagine it because it never happened. Both of those pols lied to journalists repeatedly, yet you can bet 90 percent still voted straight Democratic.
"

While I certainly don't think journalists have an obligation to be "nice" to the President,  I did find Acosta's approach here distasteful.  What I found even more distasteful however, was the WH doctoring a video to fit a narrative (a section was sped up to make it look like Acosta's arm was moving in a rapid "chopping" motion), and then citing that action as partial reason to pull a press pass.  I'm curious to hear if there are folks who will defend the doctoring of a video by the WH?

They are trying to fight fake news with fake news.  Ha, all sides are just awful and yet nobody can see past their own biases.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 08, 2018, 11:56:13 AM
I mean, take a look how Obama handled hecklers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRODiLHKhu4

So much more professional. "This is part of free speech is you being able to speak, and you listening, and me being able to speak"
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Cardboard on November 08, 2018, 01:57:44 PM
LMAO!

"with a heckler"

ONE!!!

And we don't see Secret Services likely kicking him out of there...

Obama would never accept Fox News interviews. Never! It was only on a handful of occasions where he gave a full interview before a Super Bowl or something like that with O'Reilly.

In this room yesterday there was likely 15 or more hecklers. If Obama had to face such opposition he would have walked out or never attended in the first place.

There was to their defense multiple journalists who were polite and asked their questions even if they mostly contained Liberal biases.

Cardboard
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 08, 2018, 01:59:22 PM
Obama would never accept Fox News interviews. Never! It was only on a handful of occasions where he gave a full interview before a Super Bowl or something like that with O'Reilly.


Here's another one with fox news:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URJUSlfTgGU

Again, actually managing the situation with class and professionalism befitting the office.

Here's another one for ya buddy with about 5-10 examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKqhyzvBQM4

And it's funny because Obama's hecklers are at rallys and speeches. Trump, of course, has to manufacture his own rallys to silence the dissenting voice.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Gregmal on November 08, 2018, 02:03:02 PM
The same clowns that convict Republican men of phantom assaults, when zero evidence is present, now defend scumbag Jim Acosta when there is indisputable(even without the "alleged" alteration, he clearly overpowers her, but hey, ignore that) video evidence of him touching someone who is just trying to do her job! Classic.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: michaelj on November 08, 2018, 02:47:53 PM
The same clowns that convict Republican men of phantom assaults, when zero evidence is present, now defend scumbag Jim Acosta when there is indisputable(even without the "alleged" alteration, he clearly overpowers her, but hey, ignore that) video evidence of him touching someone who is just trying to do her job! Classic.

I would point out that even Ben Shapiro (!) felt it necessary to call out the WH for this action.
 https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1060345582756147201
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Gregmal on November 08, 2018, 03:01:42 PM
The same clowns that convict Republican men of phantom assaults, when zero evidence is present, now defend scumbag Jim Acosta when there is indisputable(even without the "alleged" alteration, he clearly overpowers her, but hey, ignore that) video evidence of him touching someone who is just trying to do her job! Classic.

I would point out that even Ben Shapiro (!) felt it necessary to call out the WH for this action.
 https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1060345582756147201

I don't dispute that. Just noting that the fake outrage only goes one way. The guy clearly, physically overpowered the girl, and not a peep from the libs, other than to defend him... If this was Brett Kavanaugh they would have been seeking the death penalty
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 08, 2018, 03:09:18 PM
The same clowns that convict Republican men of phantom assaults, when zero evidence is present, now defend scumbag Jim Acosta when there is indisputable(even without the "alleged" alteration, he clearly overpowers her, but hey, ignore that) video evidence of him touching someone who is just trying to do her job! Classic.

I would point out that even Ben Shapiro (!) felt it necessary to call out the WH for this action.
 https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1060345582756147201


I don't dispute that. Just noting that the fake outrage only goes one way. The guy clearly, physically overpowered the girl, and not a peep from the libs, other than to defend him... If this was Brett Kavanaugh they would have been seeking the death penalty


Oh, and if it was Corey Lewandowski, Trump's campaign manager - he would be humiliated by the press and fired....which he was. But Acosta just gets praise and fake outrage.

Typical liberal double standard.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: michaelj on November 08, 2018, 03:11:06 PM
The same clowns that convict Republican men of phantom assaults, when zero evidence is present, now defend scumbag Jim Acosta when there is indisputable(even without the "alleged" alteration, he clearly overpowers her, but hey, ignore that) video evidence of him touching someone who is just trying to do her job! Classic.

I would point out that even Ben Shapiro (!) felt it necessary to call out the WH for this action.
 https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1060345582756147201


I don't dispute that. Just noting that the fake outrage only goes one way. The guy clearly, physically overpowered the girl, and not a peep from the libs, other than to defend him... If this was Brett Kavanaugh they would have been seeking the death penalty


Oh, and if it was Corey Lewandowski, Trump's campaign manager - he would be humiliated by the press and fired....which he was. But Acosta just gets praise and fake outrage.

Typical liberal double standard.

I honestly can't keep up with whose fake outrage we're talking about! Sarah Sanders?  Partisans on the left? On the right? There's plenty to go around.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 08, 2018, 03:12:33 PM

I don't dispute that. Just noting that the fake outrage only goes one way. The guy clearly, physically overpowered the girl

What?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Gregmal on November 08, 2018, 03:20:27 PM

I don't dispute that. Just noting that the fake outrage only goes one way. The guy clearly, physically overpowered the girl

What?

LOL, seriously? You have a video of him forcing her off the microphone and it's "what?". And then loads of the usual "theories" about Trump, Kavanaugh, etc, and it's indisputable proof... good lord.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Gregmal on November 08, 2018, 03:22:18 PM
The same clowns that convict Republican men of phantom assaults, when zero evidence is present, now defend scumbag Jim Acosta when there is indisputable(even without the "alleged" alteration, he clearly overpowers her, but hey, ignore that) video evidence of him touching someone who is just trying to do her job! Classic.

I would point out that even Ben Shapiro (!) felt it necessary to call out the WH for this action.
 https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1060345582756147201


I don't dispute that. Just noting that the fake outrage only goes one way. The guy clearly, physically overpowered the girl, and not a peep from the libs, other than to defend him... If this was Brett Kavanaugh they would have been seeking the death penalty


Oh, and if it was Corey Lewandowski, Trump's campaign manager - he would be humiliated by the press and fired....which he was. But Acosta just gets praise and fake outrage.

Typical liberal double standard.

You notice they are already trying to smear Trump's replacement for Sessions?

And Sarah Sanders should be offended. All these people do is harass her and personally insult her.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 08, 2018, 07:22:26 PM
Greg, are you talking about this:
https://youtu.be/xYNM6UQVW04

You think this is an incident of physically overpowering someone? She was the one grabbing at him. I thought it was the Dems who blown things out of proportion. You must be the most delicate little flower.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Cardboard on November 08, 2018, 07:32:52 PM
I am thankful, for now anyway, that we don't have too many
unjust judges like LC.

May you be lucky to have a fair hearing.

Cardboard
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Gregmal on November 08, 2018, 07:38:49 PM
Greg, are you talking about this:
https://youtu.be/xYNM6UQVW04

You think this is an incident of physically overpowering someone? She was the one grabbing at him. I thought it was the Dems who blown things out of proportion. You must be the most delicate little flower.

Funny, you didn't even need a Youtube video to convict Kavanaugh... Guess a couple fruitcakes from California carry more weight...
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 08, 2018, 08:13:54 PM
I didnít convict kavanaugh of anything and last I checked he was sworn in as a Supreme Court justice. Why so disingenuous? Do you think Acosta shouldíve had his press pass revoked?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Gregmal on November 08, 2018, 08:26:48 PM
I didnít convict kavanaugh of anything and last I checked he was sworn in as a Supreme Court justice. Why so disingenuous? Do you think Acosta shouldíve had his press pass revoked?

Absolutely. Acosta goes there with no intention of doing anything other than trying to stir shit up and cause problems. He adds nothing and has no value as far of delivering a news story goes.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Cardboard on November 09, 2018, 07:58:59 AM
If some of the people on this board where honest with themselves, we could have an intelligent discussion but, we are long passed that point.

For example, why are these journalists all dressed up? Why not going to the White House press conference with a t-shirt, jeans, running shoes?

Ah yes, there is a code of some sort. Credentials are required. I can't go. So it is a privileged group.

Similarly, I have never seen any President being trashed like this even George W. Bush who wasn't too popular with Liberals. Essentially people yelling at him. As a journalist, I thought the goal was to ask questions and obtain information and not express an opinion?

So Acosta is out. Good! Follow the code you POS.

This is actually no attack at all on the free press when you consider that Obama essentially boycotted right wing media. This would be like removing 1/4 of all journalists attending the press conference.

To Hillary's defense, at least she was willing to give interviews to people at Fox. She wasn't protected and cuddled like Obama and giving the finger to all those who disagreed with him and his policies.

You see, unlike the die-hard Liberals on this thread, I am able to see the good and bad. My eyes are wide open.

Cardboard
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: globalfinancepartners on November 09, 2018, 08:12:15 AM
I think the issue is fundamentally that Trump continues to publicly lie and then the press has to report that he lied and ask him questions about the lies.  And Sanders has to double down on the lies.  I don't think Sanders believes she is telling the truth when she is asked to double down on untrue things the President says or tells her to say.  I am not sure if the President knows when he is telling the truth and not telling the truth.  He may honestly believe that he doesn't do that.  But that has been his personal style for so long it is hard for him to be honest with himself.  I know, I know... All politicians are liars.  So nothing I said above means anything..  yada yada yada

I understand you think your eyes are wide open and you are without bias.  don't we all.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 09, 2018, 09:01:40 AM
You MUST be joking - the Press is acting in the interest of the American people?  What a farce. They could give
a shit about the average American - only their own personal power.

If you want to watch liars in action - all you have to do is turn on MSNBC and CNN - they will fill your day with lies.

At least Trump has a high approval rating - from the people that elected him.

Meanwhile - the propaganda press that is "supposed" to report the truth -and gets rating slightly higher than
the pathetic ratings that Congress gets from the people of this country.

Congress and the mainstream media could care less about the average American - only their own power.
Trump is a HUGE threat to them - he bypasses the media and goes directly to the people.

You can trash Trump all you like - and the man definitely has his faults. But he is saying things that have needed to
be said for years (which the media won't do) - mainly that our DC legislators, both Republicans and Democrats,
have let the public down - and only care about power.

The President is exposing both camps for what they have become: NOT protectors of the Public.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Cardboard on November 09, 2018, 09:16:59 AM
"I think the issue is fundamentally that Trump continues to publicly lie..."  "I know, I know... All politicians are liars.  So nothing I said above means anything..  yada yada yada"

So let's assume that Trump lies, ok. Don't your remember: "You will be able to keep your own doctor." That was a lie.

Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. That was a lie.

"Never had sex with that women." That was a lie.

You see, we have countless examples of lies or errors or whatever you may want to call it from various Presidents.

However, we have never seen such press coverage. Never!

If you hate a sitting President, is this a reason to go down in the mud with him if you consider him at that level? Do you have to trash everything he does?

It is truly the lack of balance in the media that is remarkable and the more they do it, the more people hate the media, distrust what they do and love Trump.

So like Cubsfan is saying the guy is not perfect. Who is? He is arrogant and all that but, I still think that he should be given some respect and recognized when he does something right.

Cardboard

Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Gregmal on November 09, 2018, 09:24:19 AM
The crux of the liberal argument is "but Trump's president now!".... They'll never admit or acknowledge that double standard. They'll claim they didn't like the previous politicians, or that it isn't something to be concerned with now, but the truth is that they certainly didn't conduct themselves this way until Trump got into office.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 09, 2018, 09:47:29 AM

It is truly the lack of balance in the media that is remarkable and the more they do it, the more people hate the media, distrust what they do and love Trump.

So like Cubsfan is saying the guy is not perfect. Who is? He is arrogant and all that but, I still think that he should be given some respect and recognized when he does something right.

Cardboard

This is the core of the issue (above) - the public lost trust in DC and the Media. They know both groups could care less about THEM.
They elected Donald Trump as a POPULIST - to not be beholden to ANYONE but the PUBLIC.
The public wants the truth for once.

How simple could it be:

- You get an entire administration LYING to you about the deaths of 4 Americans in Benghazi. Bold face cover up and lies.
  And you compare this in any way to a Trump slap down of some POS grandstander like Acosta? Really?

- You get Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State - funneling foreign government contributions through her "foundation"
  with a "wink and a nod" - Want influence in DC? Just by pass the Commerce Department - cause the State Department
  will make it happen for you (wink, wink). - and you compare this to Paul Manafort? Really?

- You get Obama drawing his "red line" in Crimea - and folding like a cheap suit while Putin walks into the Ukraine.
  Hillary Clinton engineering uranium deals for the Russians - BUT Donald Trump is in "Russia's Pocket"? Really?

- You get Obama, who could BARELY conceal his contempt for Nethanyahu, giving the world's largest sponsor
  of Terrorism $400B - yet Trump is a bigot?


The problem with the media and Congress is their contempt and distain for the average American who sees through
all THEIR LIES - and wants an end to it.

The really interesting thing is neither group have learn A THING.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: globalfinancepartners on November 09, 2018, 09:57:12 AM
You are right.  Obama told us we could keep our same doctor if we liked our doctor.  He also told us we could keep our health insurance plan if we liked the plan we had.  And then some of those plans ended up being unlawful under the new law - because they were deemed to not be good enough.  So some people, far from all of them, had to switch health insurance providers and then their doctor that they liked didn't accept the new health insurance.  But most people could keep their own doctor, especially if they checked to see if their doctor accepted the health insurance they were about to select.  I kept my doctor, because I selected an ACA plan that kept my personal doctor in-network.  I chose to buy that one instead of a different plan that would have made my doctor 'out of network.'

The Affordable Care Act was obviously a very imperfect compromise and nothing close to the plan that was originally hoped for.  On top of that, the health insurance / provider market is very complex.

I guess what I'm saying is daily lies for no reason other than personal vanity or god knows whatever reason our current President has is not comparable to what I described above.  You are pretending that Obama knew some people wouldn't be able to keep their own doctor, concealed that, and told a lie.  Thats not what happened.

And then you picked a single lie from each of two other presidencies.  Obviously there are more lies for Clinton and more lies from Bush - but my point has been that it is daily, relentless untruth.  Not here and there for whatever reason - but steady everyday untruth.  It's damaging to our country and it may ultimately prove damaging to Donald Trump.  Although so far, nothing has hurt him.

Much of what comes out of Donald Trump's mouth (and twitter keyboard) is so foolish that even the die hard Trump supporters on this board should recognize the foolishness.  If you are willing to recognize the foolishness, you can still appreciate his accomplishments.  Trade changes, for example, MIGHT work out.  He is going about it differently than anyone else in history.  It MIGHT work.  It MIGHT be a disaster.  We'll find out much later and it will be studied forever.  The corporate tax cut MIGHT be considered a smart move by history.  Or it might be considered at handout that further bankrupted the nation and further exploded the wealth gap.  We don't know yet.  Everybody knew it would be positive for companies and their stocks in the short term.  That's whats happening now.  If I hand you 20% of your earnings power back, your company is worth more.

What I'm trying to get across is that you have to be willing to see both sides.  You guys don't sound like you are ever willing to see both sides.  You sound like you have your minds made up. 

"I think the issue is fundamentally that Trump continues to publicly lie..."  "I know, I know... All politicians are liars.  So nothing I said above means anything..  yada yada yada"

So let's assume that Trump lies, ok. Don't your remember: "You will be able to keep your own doctor." That was a lie.

Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. That was a lie.

"Never had sex with that women." That was a lie.

You see, we have countless examples of lies or errors or whatever you may want to call it from various Presidents.

However, we have never seen such press coverage. Never!

If you hate a sitting President, is this a reason to go down in the mud with him if you consider him at that level? Do you have to trash everything he does?

It is truly the lack of balance in the media that is remarkable and the more they do it, the more people hate the media, distrust what they do and love Trump.

So like Cubsfan is saying the guy is not perfect. Who is? He is arrogant and all that but, I still think that he should be given some respect and recognized when he does something right.

Cardboard
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Cardboard on November 09, 2018, 10:04:53 AM
"The really interesting thing is neither group have learn A THING."

Correct, and I see the same from many on this board. They may hate Trump but, they should at least try to understand what is going on.

Some were talking about a Blue Tsunami in the mid-term, LOL! Didn't happen, why?

Well, I can tell you that there is a global wave of getting rid of these muppets politicians who work only for special interest groups and big donors. The silent majority has had enough and it is clear if you look around you.

Look at Brazil recently, Italy, Germany. In Canada, it has happened in Ontario and lesser degree in Quebec and will for sure happen in Alberta in early 2019.

It is the same everywhere. Wake-up!

Cardboard
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 09, 2018, 10:07:13 AM
What you are missing: Your lies from Trump pale in magnitude from the Obama/Clinton era.

Obama knew Obamacare was a HUGE tax hike for the average American in disguise. He knew it. Zeke Immanuel knew it
and admitted it.  They knew MANY doctors would refuse to sign on for the plan - and the fallout was much worse
than they ever expected. Yet, they continued to perpetuate the lie that the "cost of healthcare would go down".

As an original Obama voter - my mind IS made up. Obama had his chance and was a disaster. Hillary would have been worse.
Now give Trump his chance.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: globalfinancepartners on November 09, 2018, 10:20:13 AM
I've always wondered about this - I get that doctors refuse to take on new Medicaid patients because the reimbursements are so low.  So they just refuse Medicaid patients.  But how is a doctor refusing people who are getting their private market health insurance through an ACA exchange?  How would a doctor even know that my Blue Cross Blue Shield of Louisiana is through an ACA exchange, versus an employer or other form of Blue Cross Blue Shield of Louisiana plan? 

I get it that if I switch to Anthem and my doctor doesn't take Anthem Obama is a lier.  But I don't understand how my health insurance provided by a private company (not single payer, not the government) is somehow different from other private market health insurance.

And when you say its a huge tax increase for the average american - are you referring to the incremental increase to the capital gains tax rate on high income people?  Or are you saying that by requiring health insurance plans to have better-for-the-patient terms (and thus costing more than plans that didn't really offer much protection for the patient), they made health insurance more expensive and that increase in price is the "tax increase"?

What you are missing: Your lies from Trump pale in magnitude from the Obama/Clinton era.

Obama knew Obamacare was a HUGE tax hike for the average American in disguise. He knew it. Zeke Immanuel knew it
and admitted it.  They knew MANY doctors would refuse to sign on for the plan - and the fallout was much worse
than they ever expected. Yet, they continued to perpetuate the lie that the "cost of healthcare would go down".

As an original Obama voter - my mind IS made up. Obama had his chance and was a disaster. Hillary would have been worse.
Now give Trump his chance.

I would also like to add, although I'm sure it will not make a difference, that I have never understood the focus on the Benghazi attack and "cover up."  What am I missing?  What is the big deal?  The biggest fuck up I can see is that we should have sent increased security earlier when it was requested, which may have helped some on the day of the attack.  But the CIA had a bogus initial assessment that it had something to do with the video, since that was causing protests at embassies elsewhere.  It turned out that was wrong - but why do people think Hillary or Susan Rice or Obama have some malicious bad-faith cover up motive?  It has been investigated by Republicans and they concluded that there was no evidence that "Rice or any other government official acted in bad faith or intentionally misled the American people."

It has always seemed to me like a misguided Monday-morning quarterback situation that was blown up into something it was not for political reasons.

Do people that get worked up over this Behghazi attack actually believe that Obama, Rice or Hillary Clinton did something wrong intentionally?  What would the motive be?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 09, 2018, 10:31:31 AM
I am saying the escalation of the insurance premiums. Of course, not a "tax increase" - but a larger transfer of income/subsidy
via the insurance industry. My private insurance has gone up 600%, even with my $5000 deductible due to our
President promising me "it would be good for me". 

My best friend is a doctor.  He does a lot of charity work. He was involved with ObamaCare for years - finally stopped taking
it. Why?  Was it because of the low rate? ...NO - it was because he would rather do the work for FREE rather than the
enormous amount of paperwork that was required just to satisfy the experts in DC.  They totally botched this.

But you can't change the way a socialist thinks - when he knows he can do it better than private enterprise.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: globalfinancepartners on November 09, 2018, 10:39:18 AM
I still don't see how my private insurance purchased through obamacare exchanges is any different from private insurance purchased any other way.

Your health insurance plan sounds really crappy.  Why is it so expensive for a $5000 deductible and how was it so much cheaper before?  Were you part of a group plan before?  Did your cheaper plan have a $5000 deductible?  You did get older and all health costs went up over that time period - but I'm wondering if the prices are anything close to apples to apples.

I am saying the escalation of the insurance premiums. Of course, not a "tax increase" - but a larger transfer of income/subsidy
via the insurance industry. My private insurance has gone up 600%, even with my $5000 deductible due to our
President promising me "it would be good for me". 

My best friend is a doctor.  He does a lot of charity work. He was involved with ObamaCare for years - finally stopped taking
it. Why?  Was it because of the low rate? ...NO - it was because he would rather do the work for FREE rather than the
enormous amount of paperwork that was required just to satisfy the experts in DC.  They totally botched this.

But you can't change the way a socialist thinks - when he knows he can do it better than private enterprise.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Schwab711 on November 09, 2018, 12:15:42 PM
I am saying the escalation of the insurance premiums. Of course, not a "tax increase" - but a larger transfer of income/subsidy
via the insurance industry. My private insurance has gone up 600%, even with my $5000 deductible due to our
President promising me "it would be good for me". 

My best friend is a doctor.  He does a lot of charity work. He was involved with ObamaCare for years - finally stopped taking
it. Why?  Was it because of the low rate? ...NO - it was because he would rather do the work for FREE rather than the
enormous amount of paperwork that was required just to satisfy the experts in DC.  They totally botched this.

But you can't change the way a socialist thinks - when he knows he can do it better than private enterprise.

What is your employment situation? Without saying whether you are self-employed or not, it is impossible to make apples-to-apples with the increase in insurance premiums. All insurance premiums went up with the existing conditions mandate.

A very similar proposal was made by Republicans in 1996. Chris Jacobs of the Federalist Society is a big supporter of expanding portability it instead of having the existing condition mandate. The difference between insurance portability and existing condition mandate is that if you lose your job, quit, or anything else, the existing condition mandate allows folks to regain health insurance. Previously under the portability clause (and proposed portability expansion), if you quit or in anyway lose your job, your out of luck. ACA is about employee mobility. Employer mobility is expensive because the government funds the mobility for self-employed, uninsured, and private insurance through employers. Corporations get a free ride due to lobbying. That's why the self-insured have been hammered. Another example of corporations getting subsidized by self-employed and the government (directly causing your premiums and deductibles to rise) is the tax break for corporations providing health insurance. Both parties are close on insurance portability, but the rhetoric and misinformation is preventing fixes.

The increase in health insurance premiums is due to self-employed individuals being grouped with low-income folks. Those folks were more likely to have pre-existing conditions and the least amount of money to contribute to the pool. Thus, that pool got hit the hardest. The answer is to mix private insurance with the self-employed pools or something along those lines.

You have already made up your mind about an issue you don't know enough about. Trump has the same problems right now that Obama had. The Republican-led government ran in to the same problems every other mix of US government has ran in to since WW2. Healthcare is getting more expensive. Over every 5 year period since WW2, it's gotten more expensive. ACA isn't perfect or even great, but that's not your real complaint. Your complaint is probably the pool you're stuck with. Corporations lobbied to keep self-employed away from their pools and to make it more difficult to pool amongst yourselves for more leverage.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Viking on November 09, 2018, 12:16:08 PM
My issue with Trump is one of magnitude. Yes, if you look deep enough you can fairly easily  demonstrate that all politicians have their warts. It is the nature of the office. As you make the difficult decisions you will really piss some people off. Over time, you are inevitable piss off a chunk of the people you represent.

I agree that some of Trumpís major policy decisions are initially ridiculed and then over time become more mainstream. Many policy decisions will likely help the US economy over the next couple of years (will they be good in the medium and longer term is not so clear).

My issue with Trump is the impact he is having on the fabric of US society. It looks to me that he is slowly destroying US society. He lies pretty much every day. He treats people like shit pretty much every day. He says terrible things about minorities (no all Mexicans arenít rapists). He says terrible things to and about women (grab them by the puzzy). Rational people who worked for him understand how unbalanced he is (read the books written recently discussing this). Russia is our friend. Really? Trump loves fighting, hatred, anger, resentment (think of a negative emotion) because it rallies his base; this is not how you build a great country. Short term gain and long term you are screwed (unless you want to live in a country where 45% of the population violently hates the other 55%). At some point the pendulum needs to swing back and this will not happen under Trump.

I heard a Jewish columnist on TV recently and she explained the current situation perfectly. She said it was only after the Synagogue killings that she fully appreciated what Trump was doing to the US. She said many of his supporters understand how evil he is but they feel the economic benefits are too great to ignore. Her point was Trump slowly destroying American society and it will only get worse.

At some point caracter has to matter, especially if you are the President of the US. Even if he is the best President ever from an economic standpoint. From the outside looking in it is clear to me that Trump is destroying the fabric of US democracy. You reap what you sow.

My initial guess (based on what i know today) is Trump will win reelection in 2 years.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 09, 2018, 12:24:12 PM

Do people that get worked up over this Behghazi attack actually believe that Obama, Rice or Hillary Clinton did something wrong intentionally?  What would the motive be?

As an American, you should be infuriated about the attack, but particularly the cover up.

Additional security was refused by the consulate after repeated warnings to Clinton's State Department by Christopher Stevens.
Flat out refused since "there was no unrest or danger" because Obama had such a great relationship with the Arab world.
The State Department hung these people out to dry -and they were murdered.

From there it got worse - because the Obama administration did NOT want to admit they made a mistake - they repeatedly
lied to the American people with the fake video story. Repeatedly. When that did not work - they had to come clean.

Why are you not outraged?

What they did was intentionally wrong - and lied repeatedly about it - to advance their political careers.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 09, 2018, 12:35:35 PM
It's good to hear you guys think the Obamacare disaster is so great for the country. Seems as though very
many voters do not agree with you so-called experts. If you take the issues of

1) Jobs
2) Illegal Immigration
3) Obama Care

You have your 3 main reasons for the election of Donald Trump.

Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Schwab711 on November 09, 2018, 12:38:08 PM
"there was no unrest or danger"

This is not an actual quote. It does not resemble the actual cable that you should be referring to. You also leave out the ambassador's response to it. The rest of your comment doesn't match known facts. Your comment doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Schwab711 on November 09, 2018, 12:40:51 PM
It's good to hear you guys think the Obamacare disaster is so great for the country. Seems as though very
many voters do not agree with you so-called experts. If you take the issues of

1) Jobs
2) Illegal Immigration
3) Obama Care

You have your 3 main reasons for the election of Donald Trump.

Republicans just campaigned on saving pre-existing condition mandate. That is the main source of your insurance premium increases. Your comments have no cohesion.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 09, 2018, 12:47:50 PM
"there was no unrest or danger"

This is not an actual quote. It does not resemble the actual cable that you should be referring to. You also leave out the ambassador's response to it. The rest of your comment doesn't match known facts. Your comment doesn't make sense.

You're so full of shit Schwab. The administration pushed for days on the video story, when they well knew there
was no protest group at Benghazi, but a planned terrorist attack.

And all the time, Hillary Clinton is telling her daughter about the terrorist attack that killed the Americans.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 09, 2018, 12:53:26 PM
It's good to hear you guys think the Obamacare disaster is so great for the country. Seems as though very
many voters do not agree with you so-called experts. If you take the issues of

1) Jobs
2) Illegal Immigration
3) Obama Care

You have your 3 main reasons for the election of Donald Trump.



Republicans just campaigned on saving pre-existing condition mandate. That is the main source of your insurance premium increases. Your comments have no cohesion.

Cohesion? WTF kind of stupid comment is that.

Trump ran on repealing ObamaCare - weren't you around for the election?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 09, 2018, 01:00:20 PM
I think by cohesion he means:

-you first said voters disagreed with Obamacare
-we just had an election where republicans ran on keeping the major cost driver of Obamacare
(https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/02/upshot/republicans-pre-existing-conditions-.html)

President Trump has gone the furthest, saying not only that he will ensure protections for the previously ill, but also pledging that his party will do so more effectively than Democrats.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1057655675080314880
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Schwab711 on November 09, 2018, 04:10:42 PM
"there was no unrest or danger"

This is not an actual quote. It does not resemble the actual cable that you should be referring to. You also leave out the ambassador's response to it. The rest of your comment doesn't match known facts. Your comment doesn't make sense.

You're so full of shit Schwab. The administration pushed for days on the video story, when they well knew there
was no protest group at Benghazi, but a planned terrorist attack.

And all the time, Hillary Clinton is telling her daughter about the terrorist attack that killed the Americans.

There's a dozen or more terrorist attack threats a day. Pence said they catch a dozen terrorists at the border a day. That's an inflated statistic, but not wrong in direction. Not every threat is taken seriously. In this case, by the ambassador involved.

I'd be more nuanced but you aren't capable of that discussion. Specifically, your comment is wrong.

On this type of topic, wait til you learn about Trump/Khashoggi :)
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 09, 2018, 04:54:43 PM
"there was no unrest or danger"

This is not an actual quote. It does not resemble the actual cable that you should be referring to. You also leave out the ambassador's response to it. The rest of your comment doesn't match known facts. Your comment doesn't make sense.

You're so full of shit Schwab. The administration pushed for days on the video story, when they well knew there
was no protest group at Benghazi, but a planned terrorist attack.

And all the time, Hillary Clinton is telling her daughter about the terrorist attack that killed the Americans.

There's a dozen or more terrorist attack threats a day. Pence said they catch a dozen terrorists at the border a day. That's an inflated statistic, but not wrong in direction. Not every threat is taken seriously. In this case, by the ambassador involved.

I'd be more nuanced but you aren't capable of that discussion. Specifically, your comment is wrong.

On this type of topic, wait til you learn about Trump/Khashoggi :)

No Schwab - your comments were down right stupid as usual, and you ought to comment on important things you have taken the time to understand.

Go study your history book Schwab. Bengazhi was an American tragedy caused by weak and extremely naive foreign policy decisions,
with a coverup engineered and carried out at the highest level by a naive President. His fall person of course, was Susan Rice,
who lost her Secretary of State Job as a result - when the coverup was exposed.

Hillary, of course, skated away unscathed, until years later, her emails to her daughter revealed she knew about the terrorist attack
that evening - and proceed with the plan anyway, to lie to the American public for weeks.

I'm not surprise to hear you take all this so lightly Schwab - and with no outrage. That's just the kind of guy you are.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: investor-man on November 09, 2018, 05:04:25 PM

My initial guess (based on what i know today) is Trump will win reelection in 2 years.

You think? I can't see it. The next two years will certainly be ugly. But he would have lost if the election were this week and the press is only going to get worse. His son has already been caught lying about that Trump Tower meeting. Michael Cohen just spent 50 hours with Mueller. Paul Manafort plead guilty and struck a plea deal along with Gates and Flynn. They might be able to keep Mueller quiet until January but then the cats out of the bag.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Gregmal on November 09, 2018, 06:11:52 PM
https://nypost.com/2018/11/09/james-comey-discussed-sensitive-fbi-business-on-his-private-email/

I hope the libs are outraged and offended!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: valueorama on November 09, 2018, 06:34:54 PM
It's good to hear you guys think the Obamacare disaster is so great for the country. Seems as though very
many voters do not agree with you so-called experts. If you take the issues of

1) Jobs
2) Illegal Immigration
3) Obama Care

You have your 3 main reasons for the election of Donald Trump.

In my opinion, Trump got elected for the same reason Obama got elected.
The rural folks are seeing no change in their life. So they felt bringing a new face like Obama to give change and results. But it turned out to be the same.
So, next trial the decided they will put a complete outsider to disrupt washington. If after 8yrs, the situation doesnt change. The crowd will be ready for Sanders to try his socialist like policies.

In terms of obamacare, just getting rid of "pre-existing condition" clause is worth it. That clause alone would drive the cost of insurance higher. But really we should have  universal healthcare. Number one reason for personal bankruptcy is Medical bills. Have seen documentaries where rural folks working 2-3 jobs and afraid to visit doctors due to bills. It is sad.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: investor-man on November 09, 2018, 07:50:05 PM
https://nypost.com/2018/11/09/james-comey-discussed-sensitive-fbi-business-on-his-private-email/

I hope the libs are outraged and offended!

This is old news. Clinton had a hilarious tweet about it https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1007376361101582336?s=19

I'm as outraged about him as I was her which is not much
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Viking on November 09, 2018, 11:03:57 PM

My initial guess (based on what i know today) is Trump will win reelection in 2 years.

You think? I can't see it. The next two years will certainly be ugly. But he would have lost if the election were this week and the press is only going to get worse. His son has already been caught lying about that Trump Tower meeting. Michael Cohen just spent 50 hours with Mueller. Paul Manafort plead guilty and struck a plea deal along with Gates and Flynn. They might be able to keep Mueller quiet until January but then the cats out of the bag.

If Trump actually makes it to an election in 2 years, yes, i think he will win. I am not convinced the Democrats understand why Trump has been so sucessful. And i am not convinced the Democrats will pick a credible candidate. Its early days... lots to new info to come in the next 24 months.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Parsad on November 09, 2018, 11:15:55 PM
https://nypost.com/2018/11/09/james-comey-discussed-sensitive-fbi-business-on-his-private-email/

I hope the libs are outraged and offended!

He was just doing what the Trump Administration was doing...also not ok:

https://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-advisers-private-email-kushner-trump-priebus-bannon-cohn-miller-2017-9

Cheers!
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: maybe4less on November 09, 2018, 11:41:45 PM
I still don't see how my private insurance purchased through obamacare exchanges is any different from private insurance purchased any other way.

Healthcare providers know which insurance you have because the plan/group number is specific to Exchange plans (actually even individual plans not purchased on the exchange are coded the same way). Employer-provided plans have different plan/group numbers.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 10, 2018, 05:08:22 AM

So, next trial the decided they will put a complete outsider to disrupt washington. If after 8yrs, the situation doesnt change.


I think you are exactly correct. The public put in an outsider not beholden to the Democrats, Republicans and the Media.
The Public has had it with the DC Swamp not representing their interests. Their lives have not gotten better. They do not
trust politicians.

The politicians and certainly the media have learned nothing from the election of Donald Trump - as they search for
excuse after excuse in order to bring him down -instead of looking at themselves.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Zorrofan on November 10, 2018, 07:52:16 AM
https://nypost.com/2018/11/09/james-comey-discussed-sensitive-fbi-business-on-his-private-email/

I hope the libs are outraged and offended!

He was just doing what the Trump Administration was doing...also not ok:

https://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-advisers-private-email-kushner-trump-priebus-bannon-cohn-miller-2017-9

Cheers!

Hillary started it......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy

Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Gregmal on November 10, 2018, 10:36:59 AM
https://nypost.com/2018/11/09/james-comey-discussed-sensitive-fbi-business-on-his-private-email/

I hope the libs are outraged and offended!

He was just doing what the Trump Administration was doing...also not ok:

https://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-advisers-private-email-kushner-trump-priebus-bannon-cohn-miller-2017-9

Cheers!

Good, everyone's doing it. Agreed. Now apply this logic elsewhere and maybe we can stop having baby fits and temper tantrums about everything Trump does because obviously narcissism and corruption are not exclusive to him. As far race relations? Remember "I am my brother's keeper?" and patronizing an obese gangster who robbed and assaulted a store owner and tried to do the same to a cop and wound up dead? Just cuz he was of color? Glad you're finally coming around to the idea that all politicians suck and using Trump as a punching bag to resolve your own personal issues is not the correct approach...

Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Spekulatius on November 11, 2018, 08:08:18 PM
I think by cohesion he means:

-you first said voters disagreed with Obamacare
-we just had an election where republicans ran on keeping the major cost driver of Obamacare
(https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/02/upshot/republicans-pre-existing-conditions-.html)

President Trump has gone the furthest, saying not only that he will ensure protections for the previously ill, but also pledging that his party will do so more effectively than Democrats.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1057655675080314880

Trump will rename Obamacare Trumpcare and it will be great 😂
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Gregmal on November 11, 2018, 08:41:21 PM
Here we go!

https://nypost.com/2018/11/11/schiff-wants-to-probe-trump-for-targeting-cnn-washington-post/

These schnooks just can't help themselves. Already getting baited into trivial pursuits that will just make them look bad and cost them 2020. As I said awhile ago, these morons are just going to spend the next 2 years harping on Russia, tax returns, and petty crap like this, and then wonder why they get bounced...
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: meiroy on November 11, 2018, 09:20:06 PM

"Just crunched: the percentage of white men as a share of House Democrats is set to decline from 41% to 38% as a result of the 2018 election.

Meanwhile, the percentage of white men as a share of House Republicans is on track to rise from 86% to *90%.*"

This is what it is about.

It's not about economics, or foreign policy or ""conservatism"" or whatever, these are all just excuses and why they will just change arguments when confronted with facts.  All these attempts at rational discussion are futile.



Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Cigarbutt on November 12, 2018, 07:08:47 AM

"Just crunched: the percentage of white men as a share of House Democrats is set to decline from 41% to 38% as a result of the 2018 election.

Meanwhile, the percentage of white men as a share of House Republicans is on track to rise from 86% to *90%.*"

This is what it is about.

It's not about economics, or foreign policy or ""conservatism"" or whatever, these are all just excuses and why they will just change arguments when confronted with facts.  All these attempts at rational discussion are futile.
As usual meiroy, you bring up a good point and the "altitude adjustment" is certainly part of "it" but I disagree on your ZeroHedge-type of pessimism concerning the potential for common grounds. ;)  The futility argument mentioned on a discussion board is paradoxical, isn't it?

Anyways, you may like:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/race-rising-anxiety-white-america/

Like the guy who says in the article: "itís hard for an individualóor a countryóto evolve past discomfort if the source of the anxiety is only discussed in hushed tones", I would say that open discussions are not futile. Some issues can be swept under the rug but others, like the changing complexion issue, should be faced head-on (talking over a beer may help).

In the "We are going to make America Great Again", it's the "we" part that I find most interesting but perhaps also most controversial.
So, who are we?
I like Schwab711's answer provided on a concurrent trend: "Finally, I'd also argue that when in doubt, assume that people are people."
Like We, the people. :)
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: MarkS on November 12, 2018, 07:44:07 AM
Meiroy - what do you want white men to do?  We're constantly being told that we're the problem - white privilege and all that.  Even though I've never owned a slave, or my father, or my grandfather..... I should somehow pay for sins committed in the mid 1800s?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: MarkS on November 12, 2018, 07:58:44 AM
Let me ask the question a different way.  For identity politics to work, you have to have a group to direct the hatred towards. The dems have a coalition of blacks, hispanics , women and the LBGTQ community.   Conspicuously absent are white men by design.  Why are you surprised when white men leave and go somewhere besides the Democrat Party?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 12, 2018, 08:02:30 AM
Meiroy - what do you want white men to do?  We're constantly being told that we're the problem - white privilege and all that.  Even though I've never owned a slave, or my father, or my grandfather..... I should somehow pay for sins committed in the mid 1800s?

Mark - you are guilty until proven innocent by way of association. White privilege is your birthright and your crime.

As a racist, bigot, homophobe - you no longer have a voice. As a deplorable you must keep quiet.

You can thank President Obama for the need to silence the opposition and make you feel guilty - once he lost
the house, senate, governorships and countless state electorates - he had no other choice but to double down
on identity politics - and divide our country.

After all, if you were the one responsible for your party's total loss of political power - why admit it?

Why admit you failed theDemocratic Party, when you can shame the opposition party?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: globalfinancepartners on November 12, 2018, 08:22:12 AM
I donít remember Obama doing that. Can you post some examples for me to research?
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 12, 2018, 08:41:25 AM
Meiroy - what do you want white men to do?  We're constantly being told that we're the problem - white privilege and all that.  Even though I've never owned a slave, or my father, or my grandfather..... I should somehow pay for sins committed in the mid 1800s?

Mark - you are guilty until proven innocent by way of association. White privilege is your birthright and your crime.

Why with the reactionary response?

Here, ten entertaining minutes of this discussion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8raaT7SRx18
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 12, 2018, 11:28:27 AM
I donít remember Obama doing that. Can you post some examples for me to research?

If you are so inclined:

http://victorhanson.com/wordpress/obamas-racial-politics/#more-1067


And of course don't forget

- "The son who might have looked like Trayvon Martin" - and his total disregard for our system of justice

- "we've got your back"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/12/obama-back-to-black-voters-radio-ad

- A nation of cowards
https://www.forbes.com/2009/02/22/obama-eric-holder-racism-america-cowards-opinions-columnists_attorney_general.html#47559b4118e2

- All Whites are going to hell
https://dailycaller.com/2012/10/31/all-whites-are-going-to-hell-says-civil-rights-icon/

- The Chickens have come home to roost -
https://townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/2012/04/26/if-mormonism-is-fair-game-so-is-jeremiah-wright-n905353

and look no further than Obama's actions:

- Pitting young women against old white men (anti-abortionists)

- Latinos against nationalistic old white men

- Blacks against racist old while men

And it's perfect acceptable for these groups to express hatred against the groups that do not look like themselves.


Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: globalfinancepartners on November 12, 2018, 12:20:35 PM
Thanks cubs fan - I'm going to read these.  BTW, I grew up in the NW suburbs of Chicago but my Father was from the South Side originally and he wouldn't let me root for the Cubs even though all my friends were Cubs fans.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 12, 2018, 12:48:00 PM
Thanks cubs fan - I'm going to read these.  BTW, I grew up in the NW suburbs of Chicago but my Father was from the South Side originally and he wouldn't let me root for the Cubs even though all my friends were Cubs fans.

My pleasure GFP - I live near Hinsdale, grew up in Cary, IL - but I am both a longtime Cubs AND Sox fan - my friends feel I am conflicted.

You beat me to the South, and I hope to get there if someone will ever buy my house.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: globalfinancepartners on November 12, 2018, 01:04:10 PM
My Mother still lives on the Fox River on the edge of Barrington (when she's not in Florida..).  I grew up in Barrington, went to Barrington High School.  (we went to a dive bar / bowling alley near Cary but probably in Fox River Grove - King-pin it was called)

I'm trying to get my Mother to become a resident of Florida.  Tax reasons primarily.  Someday soon I think.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: cubsfan on November 12, 2018, 01:20:44 PM
Small world!  I grew up on the river about 6 houses from the Norge Ski Jump in Fox River Grove. Amazing.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Vish_ram on November 13, 2018, 07:23:28 AM
Sorry back after a hiatus.


This is a stealth tsunami, silently gobbling up R base.

1) Record number of local/county elections have been won by D
2) Red states like Georgia are slowly turning blue
3) Record number of wins for congress since Nixon era
4) R lost a ton of suburbs; if the trend continues their anti-democratic redistricting will be made null and void
5) Folks under 30 are favoring D with 30% margin and their participation is going through the roof.

If the stupid Clintons would continue to take walks in woods, we can have a D President by 2020.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: rkbabang on November 13, 2018, 07:28:44 AM
If the stupid Clintons would continue to take walks in woods, we can have a D President by 2020.

Ha, I wouldn't count on it.  Hillary is planing to give Trump a 2nd term as we speak.
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: LC on November 13, 2018, 01:30:38 PM
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/416427-federal-judge-finds-georgia-county-violated-civil-rights-act-by-rejecting

Federal judge finds Georgia county violated Civil Rights Act by rejecting ballots



U.S. District Judge Leigh Martin May wrote in a 17-page order that the county was found to be acting in violation of the Civil Rights Act with its rejection of absentee ballots solely on the basis of an omitted or incorrect birth year.

Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: Cardboard on November 13, 2018, 01:46:41 PM
Even judges decisions in this society are no longer worth anything. They should be impartial. Unfortunately, they are anything but. That happens when they are appointed officials with partisan biases.

Cardboard
Title: Re: Trump just destroyed Republican party
Post by: meiroy on November 13, 2018, 04:05:19 PM

"Just crunched: the percentage of white men as a share of House Democrats is set to decline from 41% to 38% as a result of the 2018 election.

Meanwhile, the percentage of white men as a share of House Republicans is on track to rise from 86% to *90%.*"

This is what it is about.

It's not about economics, or foreign policy or ""conservatism"" or whatever, these are all just excuses and why they will just change arguments when confronted with facts.  All these attempts at rational discussion are futile.
As usual meiroy, you bring up a good point and the "altitude adjustment" is certainly part of "it" but I disagree on your ZeroHedge-type of pessimism concerning the potential for common grounds. ;)  The futility argument mentioned on a discussion board is paradoxical, isn't it?

Anyways, you may like:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/race-rising-anxiety-white-america/

Like the guy who says in the article: "itís hard for an individualóor a countryóto evolve past discomfort if the source of the anxiety is only discussed in hushed tones", I would say that open discussions are not futile. Some issues can be swept under the rug but others, like the changing complexion issue, should be faced head-on (talking over a beer may help).

In the "We are going to make America Great Again", it's the "we" part that I find most interesting but perhaps also most controversial.
So, who are we?
I like Schwab711's answer provided on a concurrent trend: "Finally, I'd also argue that when in doubt, assume that people are people."
Like We, the people. :)

Thank you for your civil and eloquent reply, I have much to learn from you in that sense, especially how you are able to smile while punching me with that Zerohedge comment :) The numbers speak for themselves and they are not borderline. If it's not clear enough, you could add the percentage of white men out of the entire population and as a percentage of voters.  It's pretty remarkable, isn't it? 90% is not 65%, I'd go balls to the wall on GS leaps today if I had 90% conviction.


And just for fun, I'm quoting MarkS comment here:

Quote from: MarkS
Let me ask the question a different way.  For identity politics to work, you have to have a group to direct the hatred towards. The dems have a coalition of blacks, hispanics , women and the LBGTQ community.   Conspicuously absent are white men by design.  Why are you surprised when white men leave and go somewhere besides the Democrat Party?