Author Topic: What the heck is going on at universities??  (Read 8129 times)

rkbabang

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2017, 06:01:41 AM »
"You haven't explained why."

Here is my answer: when you get paid by the state, you support an ever larger government to get a larger slice of the pie. And there is also a "system" in place to get you in the gang.

One of my friend is a high school teacher. However, he is quite unique as he does not complain about his salary, size of class, nor advocate for unions, strikes and the like. He does not tell you garbage such as: "This is what you think that our childrens are worth?" If one looks at it with no emotion, Canadian teachers actually earn a very good salary + benefits relative to population and hours worked.

There was a vote recently and he intented to go vote at the union`s meeting. However, unless you attend the 15 to 30 minutes prior to the real meeting agenda of what he called: brainwashing, you are not allowed in with the doors locked.

That is democracy in the Leftist world.

Cardboard

You have the right to vote the way we want you to.  Just like the leftist idea of the freedom of speech is: You have the right to say only the things we agree with.


doc75

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2017, 09:25:49 AM »
"You haven't explained why."

Here is my answer: when you get paid by the state, you support an ever larger government to get a larger slice of the pie. And there is also a "system" in place to get you in the gang.

One of my friend is a high school teacher. However, he is quite unique as he does not complain about his salary, size of class, nor advocate for unions, strikes and the like. He does not tell you garbage such as: "This is what you think that our childrens are worth?" If one looks at it with no emotion, Canadian teachers actually earn a very good salary + benefits relative to population and hours worked.

There was a vote recently and he intended to go vote at the union`s meeting. However, unless you attend the 15 to 30 minutes, prior to the real meeting agenda, of what he called: brainwashing, you are not allowed in with the doors locked.

That is democracy in the Leftist world.

Cardboard

Unclear if your response to "You haven't explained why" is in reference to me.  If so, then you're making a biased assumption. And I have no idea what you mean by a "system" that helps people get into the "gang".

In any case, I explicitly said that the larger problem at universities is that we have too many students; i.e. universities are too focused on growth, and society is too focused on sending everyone to university.  This is the opposite of supporting an ever larger institution.  I think the model has to change.  I'm afraid it won't until there's a fiscal emergency.   

All of this hand-wringing about leftists at universities seems to me to be a huge distraction.  I haven't studied the issue. It's just my opinion based on observations from within the system. 

There have always been fads in the softer side of academics  -- philosophy, education, etc. They catch more air today because the system is so much bigger than it was decades ago.  There's just more room for questionable programs of study. (Back to my point about too many students.)  But it's not at all clear to me that the indoctrination you're talking about is really taking place on campus to any substantial degree.  We have some wingnuts around.  Everyone knows them because they make a point of being known.  But students generally recognize them for what they are. An 18 year old who has elected to major in Social Justice will likely experience some echo-chamber effect, where their ideas are cemented rather than challenged. That's not good, admittedly. But students taking such courses as by-products of other pursuits (ie. a mandatory sociology elective) are unlikely to be affected by some ranting left-wing loonie.  By the time the kids arrive on campus they already have pretty well established views on equity, GLBTQ rights, etc.   

Compare this to a brilliant egoist like Jordan Peterson.   I happen to agree with a lot of his views, and so I don't think he's doing people harm.  But the fact that students describe his courses as "life changing" speaks to the power he wields in their social development.   I've never heard anybody say such things about our local wingnuts.  Incidentally, I'm not in the humanities, but I think Peterson makes some interesting points about how postmodernism has undermined the whole area.

I agree with some other posters here who argue that university administrations (and some faculty) are not doing enough to stand up for free expression.  It seems that you just need a few students to protest something and the admin will fold, afraid of bad press coverage.  And they all-too-happily add extra layers of inefficiency in a misguided effort to avoid conflict or appease special interests; e.g. recognizing the First Nations at the beginning of every major meeting,.

...

Canadian teacher salaries are generally very good, and in some cases (Ontario) they are exceptionally good, particularly when pension is taken into consideration.  But most teachers I know feel they're fairly paid. And I've never heard one equate their salary with children's well-being.  Unfortunately, this has become typical union talk.  In a recent contract dispute, every teacher I spoke with was embarrassed by their union's behaviour.  So your friend is far from unique.   (And if he was barred illegally from voting at a union meeting then he should do something about it.  That's a huge deal.)

"That's democracy in a leftist world,"  is a punchy tagline.  A while ago, under Harper's government, some colleagues were barred from publishing or discussing scientific findings that were contrary to the conservative agenda.  Is it fair to say,"That's science in a rightist world"?   Or is it more appropriate to look at it as general government overreach.  This leftist / rightist obsession is ridiculous and divisive.





Cardboard

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2017, 12:44:44 PM »
"And if he was barred illegally from voting at a union meeting then he should do something about it.  That's a huge deal."

What do you consider illegal? Having to listen to 15-30 minutes of non-related propaganda before a vote?

It is just the way it is. And if you dare denounce or protest, you end up just like the folks from the Right who manifest on the street and get rocks thrown at you.

My friend wants to live (I guess), so he simply avoided the meeting + vote altogether. Unless a large group of people are willing to oppose, the union will impose its laws. And there are enough brainwashed individuals who will injure others on demand.

"And I've never heard one equate their salary with children's well-being."

Regarding this, I have heard that from a female teacher this week-end who wanted me to keep an eye on her expensive (to use her words) Michael Koors bag. What an idiot!

Pushing her thinking to the extreme, although, it is not far from what she had in mind, a teacher should receive an infinite salary since they are taking care of the education of our children. Entitlement is rampant in our world.

Cardboard


 

doc75

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2017, 01:02:08 PM »
What do you consider illegal? Having to listen to 15-30 minutes of non-related propaganda before a vote?

Illegal as in against the rules set out by the union and in accordance with provincial labour law.  If they have rules in place that force a member to be present for the discussion period of any motion upon which he/she is going to vote, then your friend should've been there if he wanted to vote.  But I've never heard of such rules, so I'm wondering if they were just making it up as they go.  Things like that can be challenged. It would be supremely stupid for a well organized union to do such a thing. They usually live by (and for) "the rules".

I'm in a union.  I don't like it in many ways, but I have no doubt my working conditions are better for it. 

I was in private industry for a while, in a good position (computer stuff -- professional, well paid, etc).  All was fine until we got bought out.  Everyone got a taste of some real money and the entitlement went off the charts.

rkbabang

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2017, 01:02:15 PM »
You don't make many friends saying this, but it is true.  If you take a teachers yearly salary and divide it by the actual hours worked in a year and do the same with other professional jobs (computer programer, engineer, etc) you will find that teachers already make far too much.

Gregmal

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2017, 01:17:48 PM »
You don't make many friends saying this, but it is true.  If you take a teachers yearly salary and divide it by the actual hours worked in a year and do the same with other professional jobs (computer programer, engineer, etc) you will find that teachers already make far too much.

I don't now if I'd say all of them make too much, but this is pretty true.
Many of the newer teachers, as in under 10 years employment, often gripe about making very little money. Then you do as you stated above, and see that getting paid 50k a year at 31 years old to work 5 days a week from 7:30-3, 8.5 months a year, aint all that bad. Not great money, but not bad. Then factor in the job security and pensions, and as a career path, its pretty cozy.

Definitely in the "they make too much camp" are the lifers. I remember the head football coach at my HS had been there 30+ years and was pulling in $180k a year to coach football(August thru December) and teach gym class two days a week. Or the Spanish teacher who did in fact teach 4 days a week, but had been there 25 years and was making 240k a year.

Pauly

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2017, 02:15:29 PM »
Definitely in the "they make too much camp" are the lifers. I remember the head football coach at my HS had been there 30+ years and was pulling in $180k a year to coach football(August thru December) and teach gym class two days a week. Or the Spanish teacher who did in fact teach 4 days a week, but had been there 25 years and was making 240k a year.

Wait, what kind of high school did you go to? I've never heard of any district paying a teacher anywhere close to 240K a year. 25 years experience is pretty common and districts would be going bankrupt paying that kind of salary. Sounds like BS to me, which would be par for the course for a lot of the posts in this sub.

To add my $0.02, good teachers tend to be underpaid, and lousy teachers tend to be overpaid. A good teacher is working far more than the typical 8:30-3:00 school hours, and a lousy teacher is barely working even those hours.

LC

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2017, 02:36:53 PM »
FWIW my father was a teacher for 20+ years (retired last year) and I don't think he cleared 120K in salary. This was in NYC for context.
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Gregmal

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #68 on: December 06, 2017, 03:58:22 PM »
Definitely in the "they make too much camp" are the lifers. I remember the head football coach at my HS had been there 30+ years and was pulling in $180k a year to coach football(August thru December) and teach gym class two days a week. Or the Spanish teacher who did in fact teach 4 days a week, but had been there 25 years and was making 240k a year.

Wait, what kind of high school did you go to? I've never heard of any district paying a teacher anywhere close to 240K a year. 25 years experience is pretty common and districts would be going bankrupt paying that kind of salary. Sounds like BS to me, which would be par for the course for a lot of the posts in this sub.

To add my $0.02, good teachers tend to be underpaid, and lousy teachers tend to be overpaid. A good teacher is working far more than the typical 8:30-3:00 school hours, and a lousy teacher is barely working even those hours.

Glen Rock High School in NJ. Where art and music teachers take in 100k a year.

The referenced Spanish teacher admittedly was an exceptional situation. Worked at the middle/high school from 9-2, and taught night classes at the community college and another local college. He was pushing 300k in total comp by the time he retired.

rkbabang

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #69 on: December 06, 2017, 05:04:18 PM »
Definitely in the "they make too much camp" are the lifers. I remember the head football coach at my HS had been there 30+ years and was pulling in $180k a year to coach football(August thru December) and teach gym class two days a week. Or the Spanish teacher who did in fact teach 4 days a week, but had been there 25 years and was making 240k a year.

Wait, what kind of high school did you go to? I've never heard of any district paying a teacher anywhere close to 240K a year. 25 years experience is pretty common and districts would be going bankrupt paying that kind of salary. Sounds like BS to me, which would be par for the course for a lot of the posts in this sub.

To add my $0.02, good teachers tend to be underpaid, and lousy teachers tend to be overpaid. A good teacher is working far more than the typical 8:30-3:00 school hours, and a lousy teacher is barely working even those hours.

Yes, my post may have been an overstatement, Iíve had some excellent teachers and so have my kids, but the best teachers werenít always the highest paid. For instance when I lived in Massachusetts my kids had some horrible teachers who were making a lot more than the excellent teachers they have had here in NH.  Even the ones teaching here for decades donít make as much as the horrible teachers in MA did. Money isnít what separates the good from the bad. Like most union gigs the good are underpaid the bad are overpaid and almost no one makes what they deserve.

While my previous statement may have been too much of a generalization, it is hard to say that in general teachers donít make enough, because on average they are compensated very well.