Author Topic: What the heck is going on at universities??  (Read 8117 times)

doc75

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #70 on: December 06, 2017, 05:54:28 PM »
While my previous statement may have been too much of a generalization, it is hard to say that in general teachers donít make enough, because on average they are compensated very well.

This is certainly true in Canada.  But I thought I had read in the not-distant past about teachers in some US districts getting paid quite poorly (30k or whatever).  I was always under the impression they made much more in Canada.  It looks like I'm misinformed.

I'd be curious to see the results of a survey that asks the general public what they think a teacher should make.  I wonder if the stats would show any interesting consistencies, such as clumping around some fraction of the respondee's  income.  I'm certain you'd see plenty of very low-ball answers -- $25k or whatever.   

Unless you own and operate a business, it's pretty hard to say what you "should" be getting paid.



Cigarbutt

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #71 on: December 06, 2017, 06:37:50 PM »
Few links for the typical teacher:
http://www.topeducationdegrees.org/faq/how-much-money-does-an-average-teacher-make-a-year/
https://www.payscale.com/research/CA/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary
https://www1.salary.com/Teacher-Salary.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/08/07/low-teacher-pay-and-high-teacher-pay-are-both-myths/#2c4b20ec31af

My understanding is that higher education teachers/professors make more, and sometimes much more and the variance is higher. Data is easily available.

Reported numbers understate fringe benefits which are usually significant and very significant pension accruals which are typically very generous. I have heard and read about incredible pensions earned by retirees (especially in the US for some reason). Hard to see how "promised" pensions will be maintained.

In terms of what a person "deserves", I submit that teachers should get some kind of premium but I find that present compensation schemes are more than sufficient. In a more general sense, some studies have shown that people have a tendency to think that others are paid too much if they make more than them. But that's another story.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 06:43:56 PM by Cigarbutt »

LC

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #72 on: December 06, 2017, 11:52:44 PM »
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#25-0000

Looks like the mean primary school teachers make around $70k, post-secondary about 90-100.

I'd say that seems fair.
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DTEJD1997

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2017, 11:56:42 PM »
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#25-0000

Looks like the mean primary school teachers make around $70k, post-secondary about 90-100.

I'd say that seems fair.

I guess it depends on which skool district you are in....REMEMBER most teachers get their summers off...Spring break, Christmas break, various other holidays....they also tend to have "Cadillac" health care, pensions, and other benefits.

Some of the wealthiest people I know are/were "edukators"....

LC

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2017, 12:06:45 AM »
Sure, and there are tons of cons as well. They have to deal with children/teenagers all day. Their career goals are pretty much capped. I'm sure we've both heard the stories of young teachers being let go right before tenure eligibility.
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DTEJD1997

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2017, 12:25:39 AM »
Sure, and there are tons of cons as well. They have to deal with children/teenagers all day. Their career goals are pretty much capped. I'm sure we've both heard the stories of young teachers being let go right before tenure eligibility.

I could tell some crazy stories about "edukators"...some of them make a TREMENDOUS amount of money, they know how to work the system, and they know how to get the money.

I also know an educator who does reasonably good work, but gets paid at a level just above poverty.  He is an adjunct professor.  Those guys are taken advantage of by the admins and tenured profs.  That is yet another damning indictment of the education system in America.

LC

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2017, 02:35:06 AM »
And that doesn't happen in private firms? I could tell stories of the same type about managing directors. I don't think it's an issue isolated to academics.
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rukawa

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2017, 08:24:05 AM »
Sure, and there are tons of cons as well. They have to deal with children/teenagers all day. Their career goals are pretty much capped. I'm sure we've both heard the stories of young teachers being let go right before tenure eligibility.

Not really sure about that. Teachers can become principals and consultants. You do get more highly paid. Your career goals are less capped than you think. My cousin followed that path...I would guess she makes at least 160k per year. Now her brother is senior partner in Deloitte and makes >600k per year with less experience but not all people in Deloitte rise to senior partner.

I think during the year most teachers are more stressed out than people in other jobs and honestly students are assholes and there is no respect for a teachers authoritah. Teaching young people can be very easy and pleasurable if the teacher has the power to control the class as they do in China. Teachers are also not really that respected.

So America has a strange system. You pay your teachers well but you don't even get the benefit of having high quality teachers because you have little respect for them and you give them little power. So you attract the worst.

THe problem is that we think of education as a consumption good where we are getting a service and are customers. So when students fail, parents blame teachers. But in the traditional system of education, the onus is on the student not the teacher which in my view makes a great deal more sense. Johnny is not learning, not because his teacher failed him but because Johnny's a lazy moron. Admittedly the traditional system can go too far in letting the teachers off the hook but the current system goes way way too far in letting students off the hook and making them feel good.

Gregmal

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #78 on: December 07, 2017, 08:59:13 AM »
Sure, and there are tons of cons as well. They have to deal with children/teenagers all day. Their career goals are pretty much capped. I'm sure we've both heard the stories of young teachers being let go right before tenure eligibility.

Not really sure about that. Teachers can become principals and consultants. You do get more highly paid. Your career goals are less capped than you think. My cousin followed that path...I would guess she makes at least 160k per year. Now her brother is senior partner in Deloitte and makes >600k per year with less experience but not all people in Deloitte rise to senior partner.

I think during the year most teachers are more stressed out than people in other jobs and honestly students are assholes and there is no respect for a teachers authoritah. Teaching young people can be very easy and pleasurable if the teacher has the power to control the class as they do in China. Teachers are also not really that respected.

So America has a strange system. You pay your teachers well but you don't even get the benefit of having high quality teachers because you have little respect for them and you give them little power. So you attract the worst.

THe problem is that we think of education as a consumption good where we are getting a service and are customers. So when students fail, parents blame teachers. But in the traditional system of education, the onus is on the student not the teacher which in my view makes a great deal more sense. Johnny is not learning, not because his teacher failed him but because Johnny's a lazy moron. Admittedly the traditional system can go too far in letting the teachers off the hook but the current system goes way way too far in letting students off the hook and making them feel good.

You also have an environment where students can assault teachers and principals simply because the teachers want to enforce rules or demands respect and lil' young money gangstas thinks having their Beats headphones on blast or social media feed active 24/7 is a god given right...

https://nypost.com/2016/10/24/principal-brutally-beaten-after-telling-teen-to-remove-headphones/

rukawa

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Re: What the heck is going on at universities??
« Reply #79 on: December 08, 2017, 08:53:31 AM »
Sure, and there are tons of cons as well. They have to deal with children/teenagers all day. Their career goals are pretty much capped. I'm sure we've both heard the stories of young teachers being let go right before tenure eligibility.

Not really sure about that. Teachers can become principals and consultants. You do get more highly paid. Your career goals are less capped than you think. My cousin followed that path...I would guess she makes at least 160k per year. Now her brother is senior partner in Deloitte and makes >600k per year with less experience but not all people in Deloitte rise to senior partner.

I think during the year most teachers are more stressed out than people in other jobs and honestly students are assholes and there is no respect for a teachers authoritah. Teaching young people can be very easy and pleasurable if the teacher has the power to control the class as they do in China. Teachers are also not really that respected.

So America has a strange system. You pay your teachers well but you don't even get the benefit of having high quality teachers because you have little respect for them and you give them little power. So you attract the worst.

THe problem is that we think of education as a consumption good where we are getting a service and are customers. So when students fail, parents blame teachers. But in the traditional system of education, the onus is on the student not the teacher which in my view makes a great deal more sense. Johnny is not learning, not because his teacher failed him but because Johnny's a lazy moron. Admittedly the traditional system can go too far in letting the teachers off the hook but the current system goes way way too far in letting students off the hook and making them feel good.

You also have an environment where students can assault teachers and principals simply because the teachers want to enforce rules or demands respect and lil' young money gangstas thinks having their Beats headphones on blast or social media feed active 24/7 is a god given right...

https://nypost.com/2016/10/24/principal-brutally-beaten-after-telling-teen-to-remove-headphones/

You left out the follow up
https://nypost.com/2017/09/22/teen-who-punched-principal-in-face-gets-sweet-deal-from-judge/

The judge was very proud of the teen who was completely unapologetic. The teen served zero jail time.

Its no wonder you get bad teachers when students can beat them senseless with impunity.