Author Topic: The Stench of Sleaze is Wafting from Fremont  (Read 23850 times)

Crip1

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Re: The Stench of Sleaze is Wafting from Fremont
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2010, 09:55:42 AM »
Am I wrong in thinking that perhaps more effort expended by Mr. Dunning on performing his job then the effort in saving his job would be more beneficial to the shareholders, AND to Mr. Dunning?

Also, am I wrong in thinking that this is a tell-tale sign of "Peter Principle" on behalf of Mr. Dunning?

Granted, I am on the outside and do not know much of the inner workings, but from what I have read...

-Crip


HarryLong

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Re: The Stench of Sleaze is Wafting from Fremont
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2010, 12:47:35 AM »
Am I wrong in thinking that perhaps more effort expended by Mr. Dunning on performing his job then the effort in saving his job would be more beneficial to the shareholders, AND to Mr. Dunning?

Also, am I wrong in thinking that this is a tell-tale sign of "Peter Principle" on behalf of Mr. Dunning?

Granted, I am on the outside and do not know much of the inner workings, but from what I have read...

-Crip

If you go to BuildFremont.com/blog (still cached in google), you will see some fascinating dialogue with Fremont executives. Of course, if you're not into insurance, it is a very good substitute for counting sheep. Without putting too fine a point on it, my personal opinion is that shareholders would be served best if Dick sought his personal calling elsewhere.

bookie71

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Re: The Stench of Sleaze is Wafting from Fremont
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2010, 09:48:45 AM »
Is this bill legal under the "commerce" section of the U.S. Constitution? 
Always remember, Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered.

JAllen

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Re: The Stench of Sleaze is Wafting from Fremont
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2010, 10:36:11 AM »
Can I ask what makes Fremont worth spending so much time on?

Harry, why do you continue to devote time to it?  Why is it worth it to fly across country to meet those guys for you?

Thanks.

BTW,  I'm going to buy some just to help vote that A-hole out when it comes to that!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 10:49:45 AM by pof4520 »

HarryLong

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Re: The Stench of Sleaze is Wafting from Fremont
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2010, 10:51:22 AM »
Can I ask what makes Fremont worth spending so much time on?

Harry, why do you continue to devote time on it?  Why is it worth it to fly across country to meet those guys for you?

Thanks.

BTW,  I'm going to buy some just to help vote that A-hole out when it comes to that!

I guess I can only answer your question with more questions.

Do you know of any P&C insurer at less than $100 million in market cap with:

Over-reserving?

A good combined ratio?

Zero debt on the liabilities side of its balance sheet?

Selling at a discount to tangible book?

A double-A rated fixed income portfolio?

Remember, Buffett had a real problem in the early days getting his guys to underwrite at a profit. Just go back and read his annual reports. If you do know of any public insurers with the above attributes, or any private ones with the above attributes at less than $100 million in tangible equity, give me a call.

Myth465

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Re: The Stench of Sleaze is Wafting from Fremont
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2010, 12:57:19 PM »
Why less than $100 million. I would guess Fremont is a good company with bad Management.  Chanticleer Holdings has done a great job of picking cheap insurers. Even with that said there are alot of cheap insurers out there. HALL was a great buy 3 weeks ago before it ran up 30%.

HarryLong

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Re: The Stench of Sleaze is Wafting from Fremont
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2010, 01:25:50 PM »
Why less than $100 million. I would guess Fremont is a good company with bad Management.  Chanticleer Holdings has done a great job of picking cheap insurers. Even with that said there are alot of cheap insurers out there. HALL was a great buy 3 weeks ago before it ran up 30%.

Myth, have you read Hall's financial statements?

I think there is a weird tendency to reply to things I never said. There are a lot of cheap insurers. There are very few quality, cheap, small insurers.

Again, if you can name some specific ones which pass the criterion I listed, have at it.

Myth465

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Re: The Stench of Sleaze is Wafting from Fremont
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2010, 01:59:17 PM »
Sorry about that. Let me rephrase what I wrote. They have debt and are too big based on your metrics.

What I was wondering is why you have the criteria you have. I think there are plenty of good cheap insurers available. Maybe not with the exact same metrics that you have laid out, but plenty of cheap ones none the less.

I think the question is a fair question. Given the fact that there are other cheap insurers which should be money good. Why fool with these idiots who have Legislators willing to change state law for them. The reason why I listed HALL is because it was trading at 70% of book (there is some goodwilll though), has very good underwriting, has a value investor at the helm, has cash / a very conservative portfolio, low debt, and went up 35% over the last 4 weeks.

I guess the question I am really asking is is this worth the opportunity costs. It seems like BH needs to get 5 of his friends to buy 10% to vote out the bums. Even then he would need another 16% of the remaining shareholders to vote in favor of his nominee should this law pass. It also seems like this law may also hamper planned out of state growth.  

---

Sleaze usually runs deep. I doubt its sitting in only in the Corporate office. The positive numbers though would be hard to fake.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 04:04:33 PM by Myth465 »

nodnub

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Re: The Stench of Sleaze is Wafting from Fremont
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2010, 03:04:49 PM »
Am I wrong in thinking that perhaps more effort expended by Mr. Dunning on performing his job then the effort in saving his job would be more beneficial to the shareholders, AND to Mr. Dunning?
Also, am I wrong in thinking that this is a tell-tale sign of "Peter Principle" on behalf of Mr. Dunning?
Granted, I am on the outside and do not know much of the inner workings, but from what I have read...
-Crip

If you go to BuildFremont.com/blog (still cached in google), you will see some fascinating dialogue with Fremont executives. Of course, if you're not into insurance, it is a very good substitute for counting sheep. Without putting too fine a point on it, my personal opinion is that shareholders would be served best if Dick sought his personal calling elsewhere.

Harry, I have read the google cached version of your blog. From this perspective of your conversations and meetings with Fremont - I wouldn't trust these guys to run a hot dog stand on a street corner.  If they can't rationally discuss their own business without emotional breakdowns, yikes!!

May I ask why you have removed the buildfremont.com website?  Did you believe it was inflaming them rather than helping them see the errors they were making?

Ballinvarosig Investors

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Re: The Stench of Sleaze is Wafting from Fremont
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2010, 03:22:48 PM »
You guys are completely overstating the importance of Dick Dunning to Fremont. You're also probably being overly negative on the man himself, especially considering the performance of Fremont, which has been very good under his reign. Also, I'm surprised why anyone can't see why Biglari wants Fremont so badly. It's solid operationally, priced at a discount to intrinsic value, has excellent growth prospects and has pristine float that is just asking to be deployed better. If Biglari does get it, the thing could be a compounding machine that could even rival Geico (assuming it doesn't get run into the ground at least once). Even if present management remains; I don't see any reason why it can't perform like it already has in the last five years. The fact that present management have navigated the current financial crisis excellently, I can't see any reason why they don't continue to perform in the years ahead.

For me at least, Fremont is a Ben Graham net-net, that has a high likelihood of Phil Fisher growth.