Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 464249 times)

ERICOPOLY

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7768
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2380 on: March 24, 2020, 04:48:34 PM »
sanity, from of all people tom friedman, relying on Dr. Katz of Yale. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/opinion/coronavirus-economy.html

horizontal shutdown is stupid. vertical shutdown of those at most risk is the obvious strategy

For as much as Trump hates the NYTimes, this is basically what he was advocating yesterday.  One thing they mentioned during yesterday's press conference was gradually bringing people back to work by age category.  First the under 40s, then the under 60s, and all the while protecting the over 70s.

People seem to misunderstand that even if you don't die from this virus, it can get quite bad, and even healthy young adults (not that Americans are that healthy on average) that won't die can end up in the hospital taking space from people that would otherwise be saved, or have permanent damage from the virus (lungs, heart), or they can unknowingly infect people in their social circles/family units  that are more at risk of death, or even just that they in turn end up taking even more medical resources when there's few to spare, etc.

This is still exponential. We need the R0 to be under 1, ideally way under. Not keep it above 1 until hundreds of thousands are dying and millions have been extremely sick and a large unknown number has died from preventable causes because the healthcare system was destroyed, and how long to rebuild a destroyed healthcare system?

You re-open for containment AFTER you have majorly suppressed it, like in SK or China. You don't put an arbitrary deadline on it one week into it without any data on whether the current half-assed measures worked or what the hospital situation will be then. That's BONKERS.

I'll keep reposting it because more people need to read it, but this is the way to do it with the least pain, the least economic damage: https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

Easter isn't an arbitrary deadline:  if a resurrection happened before and it can happen again.  I can totally understand the thinking in hitting that date.


Liberty

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12619
  • twitter.com/libertyRPF
    • twitter.com/libertyRPF
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2381 on: March 24, 2020, 04:48:48 PM »

How can the opposition be blamed when they aren't in power?  It's the governing people's responsibility to govern.
 If Cuomo screws up in New York, he should be blamed.  Regardless of your politics you have to support Truman's adage "The Buck Stops Here".  That's the job of the president regardless of party.

The opposition party can certainly be blamed for doing nothing for 3 years - nothing - not governing but destroying the government.  Are the states with the largest CV problem (NY, CA, IL, WA) to be blamed because they are run by Democrats?

Of course not - it's Trump's fault!

You understand that epidemics thrive on population density and international travel and that in the US the densest places that are the most diverse tend to vote for one party over another?

Trump shuts down pandemic protection agencies, Trump calls the virus a hoax and no big deal for weeks (WEEKS in a daily exponential problem), Trump waits a long time to use the federal resources (corps of engineers, using private companies to build materials, etc), his supporters, clearly taking their cues from him, purposefully shake hands and attend rallies to "show there's no virus", yet here you are, trying to blame the party that's out of power..

Man, you sound totally delusional.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 05:00:41 PM by Liberty »
"Most haystacks don't even have a needle." |  I'm on Twitter  | This podcast episode is a must-listen

vinod1

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1468
    • My Blog
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2382 on: March 24, 2020, 04:51:07 PM »
I gave Trump credit for 3 things he has done

1. Take China as a serious threat and go after their companies and defend long term US interests.
2. Relax overly aggressive regulation in many industries.
3. Highlight the issue of illegal immigration and how it might be impacting lower income US citizens.

Even on Covid-19, I give him a lot of credit for how quickly he imposed restrictions on travelers from China. I bring up this up to highlight that I try to be objective.

Look at his other actions:
1. Dismissing the virus as the Democrats "new hoax”
2. John Bolton’s decision to scrap the nsc’s dedicated pandemic unit
3. Where is an action plan to get companies to produce PPE, testing kits, etc? How many masks are being produced per day today?
4. The half hearted attempts at containing the spread. No decisive action at the Federal level.

Trump maybe an advantage when dealing with say North Korea or even in a war situation - if the other guys thinks you are narcissist it might deter them from some things.

If there is a super intelligent creature (God) who understands Trump and designs a test that preys on his weakness, I cannot think anything better than a pandemic from something like Covid-19. It cannot be bullied, immune to twitter attacks, he is unlikely to heed advice of experts and need to take actions that might be contrary to his own interests.

I really hope and wish that he is supremely successful and luck favors him in containing the virus. But, I think it is looking increasingly likely that he is going to cause grievous harm to a lot of citizens with his approach. It would be a terrible price the country would be paying for electing someone like him.

Vinod
The fundamental algorithm of life: repeat what works. –Charlie Munger

LC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4598
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2383 on: March 24, 2020, 04:57:14 PM »
Please do not self medicate with aquarium cleaner:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-woman-husband-died-chloroquine-warns-not-to-trust-trump-2020-3

The president has repeatedly touted chloroquine as a "very powerful" treatment against the coronavirus and falsely claimed it was approved by the Food and Drug Administration.

NBC News reported that the man, 68, and his wife, 61, took chloroquine to guard against the novel coronavirus, which causes a potentially fatal disease known as COVID-19. It's not clear how much chloroquine the man consumed, and Banner Health said he and his wife ingested a version of the chemical that's used to clean aquariums.

Both of them needed to seek medical care within half an hour; the woman is in critical condition, and the man died.

"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
brk.b | goog | irm | lyv | net | nlsn | pm | t | tfsl | v | wfc | xom

ERICOPOLY

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7768
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2384 on: March 24, 2020, 04:57:33 PM »

How can the opposition be blamed when they aren't in power?  It's the governing people's responsibility to govern.
 If Cuomo screws up in New York, he should be blamed.  Regardless of your politics you have to support Truman's adage "The Buck Stops Here".  That's the job of the president regardless of party.

The opposition party can certainly be blamed for doing nothing for 3 years - nothing - not governing but destroying the government.  Are the states with the largest CV problem (NY, CA, IL, WA) to be blamed because they are run by Democrats?

Of course not - it's Trump's fault!

You understand that epidemics thrive on population density and international travel and that in the US the densest places that are the most diverse tend to vote for one party over another?

Trump shuts down pandemic protection agencies, Trump calls the virus a hoax and no big deal for weeks (WEEKS in a daily exponential problem), Trump waits a long time to use the federal resources (corps of engineers, using private companies to build materials, etc) yet here you are, trying to blame the party that's out of power..

Man, you sound totally delusional.

He is defensive of the president, and is deflecting.  You can't talk about Trump without him answering back with Biden or Pelosi.

https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/psychologists/what-is-deflection-psychology-explains-this-defense-mechanism/

What Is Deflection? In general, deflection means that you're passing something over to someone else in an attempt to draw the attention away from yourself. When you were younger, you may have deflected the blame for a negative activity by pointing out a different negative activity your sibling did

Foreign Tuffett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1220
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2385 on: March 24, 2020, 05:03:32 PM »

People seem to misunderstand that even if you don't die from this virus, it can get quite bad, and even healthy young adults (not that Americans are that healthy on average) that won't die can end up in the hospital taking space from people that would otherwise be saved, or have permanent damage from the virus (lungs, heart), or they can unknowingly infect people in their social circles/family units  that are more at risk of death, or even just that they in turn end up taking even more medical resources when there's few to spare, etc.

This is still exponential. We need the R0 to be under 1, ideally way under. Not keep it above 1 until hundreds of thousands are dying and millions have been extremely sick and a large unknown number has died from preventable causes because the healthcare system was destroyed, and how long to rebuild a destroyed healthcare system?

You re-open for containment AFTER you have majorly suppressed it, like in SK or China. You don't put an arbitrary deadline on it one week into it without any data on whether the current half-assed measures worked or what the hospital situation will be then. That's BONKERS.

I'll keep reposting it because more people need to read it, but this is the way to do it with the least pain, the least economic damage: https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

Well put Liberty, and I couldn't agree more. The way to beat this thing is to make a national effort to stop the spread before the healthcare system is overwhelmed. Unfortunately, here in the US efforts to date have been reactive instead of proactive, with failures of leadership at every level.


Spekulatius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4790
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2386 on: March 24, 2020, 05:03:45 PM »
I'm saying there are people on this board with very safe jobs and homes, that can't wait for the
President to make another mistake - so they can trash the shit out of him - while real suffering
is going on.

It's easy to say - Nope, President Trump - it's stupid to consider ending this lockdown, in some form or another.
Who cares about the working man, when you have a job, and the economy is getting destroyed.

The bill will have a lot of garbage in it regardless of who wrote it. In like the a German system better where the largest party write the bill together in committees and then do a formality vote. Germany pushed though  their stimulus bill, we are in here for a period of public haggling before every party got their share of pork in order to vote on this. That public haggling is pretty much part of the process. TARP in late 2008 was just the same thing.
Life is too short for cheap beer and wine.

jjsto

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2387 on: March 24, 2020, 05:06:22 PM »
Didn’t see this posted yet. Bill Gates Ted talk from today.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TEDTalks/status/1242481875584761856

cubsfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2388 on: March 24, 2020, 05:21:00 PM »
Yeah , right - the President slaps a travel ban on, daring to stop the influx of Chinese nationals - and the opposition party fights him all the way as a xenophobe.
And the media eats it up, while defending China all the way. And of course, now, with
the strictest social distancing, isolation policies and quarantining in our history - "The President blew it, according to you guys.
A lot of the country looks really safe now BECAUSE of Trumps actions.

All this, no thanks to the open border crowd that just loves China.

Now the man is trying to find the right medium between destroying a multi-billion dollar economy and containment.

But you guys have all the answers.

You guys kill me!

cubsfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2389 on: March 24, 2020, 05:23:35 PM »
sanity, from of all people tom friedman, relying on Dr. Katz of Yale. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/opinion/coronavirus-economy.html

horizontal shutdown is stupid. vertical shutdown of those at most risk is the obvious strategy

Hey, don't post stuff like that here. There is no middle ground possible here. You'll get the same ridicule from this crowd as Trump!