Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 805069 times)

rb

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2370 on: March 24, 2020, 04:06:38 PM »
All I have to say about this Bill nonsense is that I agree with Justin Amash.

Bills should be simple and on single issues. Every bill that hits the floor has hidden agendas and a bunch of unrelated nonsense attached to further degrade the freedoms of Americans while also further intrenching government. I mean how many times in the last two decades have we seen thousand page documents submitted and voted in all within 24hours. This is something everyone should be outraged about. From Obamacare to Omnibus the whole thing has been a joke.



Investment wise, I think a bill (regardless of what it is) will bring some much needed stability to the market. Then again, I kind of like the volatility.
I fully agree with you on the simplicity of bills. Sadly we don't live in that environment.

But c'mon, this is a 2 trillion dollar there's room in there for everyone's hobbies - Republican and Democrat. Usually those are pretty cheap too. But they wanted a 500 billion fund with no oversight to be used at the discretion of the Treasury - read  "Trump".

Now seriously, I don't care who you are lefty, righty, republican, democrat, agnostic, stoner, libertarian, extraterrestrial you can't tell me with a straight face that you trust Trump with 500 billion, no strings attached.


cubsfan

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2371 on: March 24, 2020, 04:09:37 PM »
I'm saying there are people on this board with very safe jobs and homes, that can't wait for the
President to make another mistake - so they can trash the shit out of him - while real suffering
is going on.

It's easy to say - Nope, President Trump - it's stupid to consider ending this lockdown, in some form or another.
Who cares about the working man, when you have a job, and the economy is getting destroyed.

What if I care about all people but I choose to favor lives that won't come back above jobs that eventually will?

I'm sure you are a complete humanitarian and a generous person. I'm not questioning that.

I don't understand the scorn reserved for the President at a time of crisis. Some things are not going to go correctly, yet this is
being used as the time to bring him down. Continue to have at it. It will likely work where impeachment didn't.

How is the opposition party absolved of ANY responsibility here with a 3 year clusterfuck where the #1 issue was get rid of
Trump and NOT GOVERN?  Totally wasting everyone's time for nothing and ignoring issues critical to the country.

How is the opposition party absolved of using this crisis to stuff a critical bill full of crap that has nothing to do with solving a crisis?
 
How is the opposition party absolved of the fight to recalibrate our relationship with China - which clearly needs to happen?

Where were the governors that rooted on "open borders" and no immigration security and crapping on our streets?

Do any of these politicians share any blame?  Nope - not when you can blame it all on the President you hate.

Continue to focus all your scorn on the President. You'll get you wish with wartime President Biden and associates Schiff, Pelosi and Nadler.  Can't wait to see how they deal with this once they open the borders.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 04:16:02 PM by cubsfan »

cherzeca

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2372 on: March 24, 2020, 04:13:18 PM »
sanity, from of all people tom friedman, relying on Dr. Katz of Yale. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/opinion/coronavirus-economy.html

horizontal shutdown is stupid. vertical shutdown of those at most risk is the obvious strategy

KJP

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2373 on: March 24, 2020, 04:16:40 PM »
No , you all just LOVE to present false dichotomies in hopes of destroying the President - and you know it.

I mean, it's not like the real choice might be between another Great Depression and millions of financially ruined lives.

You guys give 2 shits about that - you want the President destroyed and you know it.

Easy choice coming from a bunch of people with great jobs - while others in real pain side with the President
on finding workable alternatives.

It's just great to see the great minds here on COBF have it all figured out what the Presidents real motivations are.
Is this coming back to the virus is a Liberal hoax to destroy Trump?

I was actually pretty surprised about the announcement. Not the announcement itself but by the timing. And it wasn't just Trump, it was some Texas guy as well. I thought it would be at least an extra week until Republicans get to the "well the old folks are gonna have take one for the team". Which is a weird thing since they're their electorate. But maybe donors are more important than votes or maybe it just got so complicated they can't even keep it straight.

Now in practice, the way I understand it Trump can't really open up anything because he didn't really close anything. Except the border, he's probably not too keen on doing that.

I actually do care about all those people that you talk about and I think that people do need to think about opening things up. Not Trump, and the politicians, but smart people. A couple of reasons for that. I don't think you can keep it shut down for much more than 3 months and still have an economy. So as a heartless prick, at that point the old folks really have to take one for the team. But really we won't get to that point. Anyone who think you can keep Americans sequestered in their house for 3 months is out of his mind mad. At MOST you'll manage a month.

Now if you can manage a month that's actually pretty good. Cause China got things under control in a month. The problem is that the US is a lot worse than China. China didn't really have widespread infection. Most of it was in Hubei. In the US this virus made it to Shittown Alaska. You have NY, WA, IL, CA as big problems. Florida is probably a shitshow  we just don't know it yet. Then you have the smaller centers popping up. So you'll have a rolling curve working its way through the country with different timings. Working on a one month time frame for max sequestration this is a nightmare!

By the way, does anyone else think that divorce lawyers are gonna make a killing off of this?

This is my biggest concern.  As far as I can tell, the U.S. has no plan to address the epidemic; we seem to just be struggling everyday to try to keep our heads above water.  It doesn't appear that in January we planned for March, and right now we don't appear to be planning for May.  Or if we do have a plan, I don't know what it is.

That comment applies broadly to both federal and state officials, regardless of political party.  But given the nature of this particular problem -- and how it spreads regardless of national or state borders -- it seems unwise to have the states lead the response with federal "support," which is the language I've heard from the daily press conferences.  I don't know where that strategy came from -- a philosophical belief in federalism, an effort to avoid blame, existing bureaucratic and regulatory hurdles, or something else -- but I hope it changes.

dwy000

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2374 on: March 24, 2020, 04:19:31 PM »
I'm saying there are people on this board with very safe jobs and homes, that can't wait for the
President to make another mistake - so they can trash the shit out of him - while real suffering
is going on.

It's easy to say - Nope, President Trump - it's stupid to consider ending this lockdown, in some form or another.
Who cares about the working man, when you have a job, and the economy is getting destroyed.

What if I care about all people but I choose to favor lives that won't come back above jobs that eventually will?

I'm sure you are a complete humanitarian and a generous person. I'm not questioning that.

I don't understand the scorn reserved for the President at a time of crisis. Some things are not going to go correctly, yet this is
being used as the time to bring him down. Continue to have at it. It will likely work where impeachment didn't.

How is the opposition party absolved of ANY responsibility here with a 3 year clusterfuck where the #1 issue was get rid of
Trump and NOT GOVERN?  Totally wasting everyone's time for nothing and ignoring issues critical to the country.

How is the opposition party absolved of using this crisis to stuff a critical bill full of crap that has nothing to do with solving a crisis?

Where were the governors that rooted on "open borders" and no immigration security and crapping on our streets?

Do any of these politicians share any blame?  Nope - not when you can blame it all on the President you hate.

Continue to focus all your scorn on the President. You'll get you wish with wartime President Biden and associates Schiff, Pelosi and Nadler.  Can't wait to see how they deal with this once they open the borders.

How can the opposition be blamed when they aren't in power?  It's the governing people's responsibility to govern.
 If Cuomo screws up in New York, he should be blamed.  Regardless of your politics you have to support Truman's adage "The Buck Stops Here".  That's the job of the president regardless of party.

ERICOPOLY

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2375 on: March 24, 2020, 04:21:45 PM »
sanity, from of all people tom friedman, relying on Dr. Katz of Yale. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/opinion/coronavirus-economy.html

horizontal shutdown is stupid. vertical shutdown of those at most risk is the obvious strategy

For as much as Trump hates the NYTimes, this is basically what he was advocating yesterday.  One thing they mentioned during yesterday's press conference was gradually bringing people back to work by age category.  First the under 40s, then the under 60s, and all the while protecting the over 70s.

ERICOPOLY

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2376 on: March 24, 2020, 04:24:26 PM »
Continue to focus all your scorn on the President.

The President is obviously crazy IMO.  Why do you take that assessment as scorn?

If I were a doctor in a mental hospital, would I need to be scornful to diagnose a patient as having narcissistic personality disorder?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 04:27:56 PM by ERICOPOLY »

Liberty

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2377 on: March 24, 2020, 04:36:21 PM »
The Democrats fully supported passing a stimulus bill.

Aaand I'm out.

Finally.

Liberty

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2378 on: March 24, 2020, 04:41:55 PM »
sanity, from of all people tom friedman, relying on Dr. Katz of Yale. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/opinion/coronavirus-economy.html

horizontal shutdown is stupid. vertical shutdown of those at most risk is the obvious strategy

For as much as Trump hates the NYTimes, this is basically what he was advocating yesterday.  One thing they mentioned during yesterday's press conference was gradually bringing people back to work by age category.  First the under 40s, then the under 60s, and all the while protecting the over 70s.

People seem to misunderstand that even if you don't die from this virus, it can get quite bad, and even healthy young adults (not that Americans are that healthy on average) that won't die can end up in the hospital taking space from people that would otherwise be saved, or have permanent damage from the virus (lungs, heart), or they can unknowingly infect people in their social circles/family units  that are more at risk of death, or even just that they in turn end up taking even more medical resources when there's few to spare, etc.

This is still exponential. We need the R0 to be under 1, ideally way under. Not keep it above 1 until hundreds of thousands are dying and millions have been extremely sick and a large unknown number has died from OTHER preventable/curable causes because the healthcare system was destroyed, and how long to rebuild a destroyed healthcare system?

You re-open for containment AFTER you have majorly suppressed it, like in SK or China. You don't put an arbitrary deadline on it one week into it without any data on whether the current half-assed measures worked or what the hospital situation will be then. That's BONKERS.

I'll keep reposting it because more people need to read it, but this is the way to do it with the least pain, the least economic damage: https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 04:59:35 PM by Liberty »

cubsfan

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2379 on: March 24, 2020, 04:46:05 PM »

How can the opposition be blamed when they aren't in power?  It's the governing people's responsibility to govern.
 If Cuomo screws up in New York, he should be blamed.  Regardless of your politics you have to support Truman's adage "The Buck Stops Here".  That's the job of the president regardless of party.

The opposition party can certainly be blamed for doing nothing for 3 years - nothing - not governing but destroying the government.  Are the states with the largest CV problem (NY, CA, IL, WA) to be blamed because they are run by Democrats?

Of course not - it's Trump's fault!