Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 464127 times)

cubsfan

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2410 on: March 24, 2020, 06:40:58 PM »

Also, "cubsfan" needs to be banned. He is basically just trolling at this point.

Well said Foreign Tuffett - if the opinions expressed don't agree with your viewpoint, I expect you prefer the echo chamber.
Pretty simple stuff - silence the opposing viewpoint and carry on.

What does that look like exactly?  Accuse the opposing view of making money while real people are suffering?

Sure, accuse the President of risking 500,000 American lives, just so he can get re-elected. That's what it looks like.

Then you don't need to hear any opposing opinion.



This:

The perfect armchair quarterback situation, while you make money and people's lives are destroyed.

I didn't know I wasn't allowed to express my opinion on disgusting comments like this - obviously that's not allowed - right Eric?
Am I not allowed to defend the President?


I am pretty sure if it’s the choice is between his re-election and 500k dead, I know what he is going to pick.


ERICOPOLY

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2411 on: March 24, 2020, 06:47:34 PM »

Also, "cubsfan" needs to be banned. He is basically just trolling at this point.

Well said Foreign Tuffett - if the opinions expressed don't agree with your viewpoint, I expect you prefer the echo chamber.
Pretty simple stuff - silence the opposing viewpoint and carry on.

What does that look like exactly?  Accuse the opposing view of making money while real people are suffering?

Sure, accuse the President of risking 500,000 American lives, just so he can get re-elected. That's what it looks like.

Then you don't need to hear any opposing opinion.



This:

The perfect armchair quarterback situation, while you make money and people's lives are destroyed.

I didn't know I wasn't allowed to express my opinion on disgusting comments like this - obviously that's not allowed - right Eric?
Am I not allowed to defend the President?


I am pretty sure if it’s the choice is between his re-election and 500k dead, I know what he is going to pick.

Huh?  How does my comment have to do with your defending the President?

I quoted what you wrote beforehand about (and to me) an accusation of making money while people are suffering.  Later you described such an attack as a strategy so you don't have to hear an opposing opinion.  First you did it, then you explained your strategy... but the funny part is you did all of that after bitching that Foreign Tuffet did so to you.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 07:00:17 PM by ERICOPOLY »

cubsfan

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2412 on: March 24, 2020, 07:01:57 PM »
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 07:46:47 PM by cubsfan »

ERICOPOLY

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2413 on: March 24, 2020, 07:03:18 PM »
Now he wants packed churches in a few weeks:

“Wouldn’t it be great to have all of the churches full?" Trump said in a subsequent interview. “You’ll have packed churches all over our country.”

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-nw-coronavirus-trump-restrictions-reopen-20200324-mgnfnxy3xvgpzapcynflxouaga-story.html

Spekulatius

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2414 on: March 24, 2020, 07:26:07 PM »
Now he wants packed churches in a few weeks:

“Wouldn’t it be great to have all of the churches full?" Trump said in a subsequent interview. “You’ll have packed churches all over our country.”

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-nw-coronavirus-trump-restrictions-reopen-20200324-mgnfnxy3xvgpzapcynflxouaga-story.html

A lot of people angling for Darwin awards here.
Life is too short for cheap beer and wine.

RichardGibbons

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2415 on: March 24, 2020, 07:35:33 PM »
I guess I will know for sure if I was wrong if/when the healthcare system collapses. I could get lucky as my predictions above (not too bad for 2 weeks ago huh?) were before the nationwide stay home theme and ramp up in healthcare preparedness across the country. I believe a lot of our back and forth at the time was about Washington state? and the deaths there? They are at 110 so I guess it remains to be seen if that continues to exponentially increase with time. NYC will be the test as that is where the healthcare system could break and wasnt even close at the time of our discussions.

FWIW I still think there is no doubt millions had been infected then, and even more so now. Dont forget the asymptomatic rate is 86% per Chinese data. For now its a point that is a waste of time to argue as until further means for testing comes out we will never know. What will really tell us for sure will be serologic testing which I hope for the economy's sake happens very soon as that would be a means for every group to tell if they have been infected and are immune. That could be a very quick send away lab and could be done on all asymptomatic people and in any doctors office, ER, etc.

FWIW the healthcare system is holding up good(NYC to be determined still), and has been since we talked. Its been ~2 weeks since we went back and forth and we are up to 698 deaths. Since that time ~26k give or take have died from heart disease so heart disease may still be the winner this year. Will have to see. And yes they are real living people so them dying counts too, even though it doesn't "spread". And yes those people that live have life long lung and heart issues, CHF, etc. I didn't know we had such empathetic people on the board!

I do find it very interesting how much everyone who is not medical trained does seem to care about people dying, ICU beds, ethical hard decisions, medicine etc as this what those in the medical field deal with every day. My hope is once this is over there is just as much passionate discussion about diabetes, HTN, heart disease etc. With the amount of outpouring and compassion I can certainly envision many on the board spending time at nursing homes, cardiac rehab facilities, and community health centers going forward. That will be great as opposed to a passing interest due to self preservation.

Thanks for your honest response--I really do appreciate it when people are willing to act with intellectual honesty.  So much of that is missing in the world today.

That said, your 86% asymptomatic rate isn't credible. The most credible number I've read is ~30% (though at this point, I'd be delighted if it were 86%. Asymptomatic people are bad early in a pandemic, and good when it's out of control.)

In any case, we'll have to keep watching New York to see when they get overloaded.  New York's normal capacity is about 60K hospital beds and 3000 ICU beds.  So, I'll assume that if we go over, say, 70k simultaneous hospitalized COVID-19 patients or 3300 simultaneous COVID-19 ICU patients, that means that you'll have recognized that "this isn't a big deal, there are already hundreds of thousands if not millions infected and there's been no problems" analysis was incorrect.

It's nice to have goal posts planted firmly in the ground, and clearly if COVID-19 patients alone--without even taking into account people in the hospital for other reasons--exceed hospital capacity, then it was a pretty big deal.

All that said, I'm pretty surprised that you don't understand why people would care much more about an epidemic than heart disease deaths.

cwericb

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2416 on: March 24, 2020, 07:39:56 PM »
“Am I not allowed to defend the President?”

Remember when Trump said he could go out and shoot someone on 5th Ave and not lose a supporter? That’s Cubs - a diehard member of the Trump cult. For Cubs, Trump can do no wrong and everyone is against him.

On the Political Board Cubs has defended every single goofy move Trump has made - and there has been soooo many.

It was only a matter of time before some sort of serious situation would test the President’s judgement and expose him for the incompetent buffoon that he is.

Neither Cubs or the President understand that people’s lives are far more important than a temporary economic disaster.

Sorry Cubs, but your president is, and has been mentally ill and the examples are too numerous to list.

The fact that Trump believes everything is going to be just honky-dory in a few weeks shows just how delusional he is. He is so far removed from reality that he is suggesting that restrictions should be EASED while the reality that the number of US diagnosed cases has increased in the last 24 hours.

But of course this “very stable genius” knows more than the generals, the doctors, and - well - I guess everyone.

 
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

no_free_lunch

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2417 on: March 24, 2020, 07:43:47 PM »
Canada is talking about a gradual lift of the quarantine. Same thing as trump is saying but we will be more cautious about it.  I am assuming that the US will do a gradual return to work, at a state level.  If so, it won't be the economic catastrophe people want to believe.  So the US goes from $20T debt to say $23T as a result of covid stimulus. Not sustainable long term but not the apocalypse tomorrow either.

"The hope is that we can slowly lift these measures, rather than have them completely lifted, and we can control the rebound of the virus such that it does not cause a situation where we overwhelm our health-care system and negate everything that we've done for the past few months."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-covid-19-second-wave-1.5507522

cubsfan

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2418 on: March 24, 2020, 08:11:27 PM »
Canada is talking about a gradual lift of the quarantine. Same thing as trump is saying but we will be more cautious about it.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-covid-19-second-wave-1.5507522

That can't possibly be the right move if Trump is considering it too.

I thought that debate was settled here.

dwy000

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #2419 on: March 24, 2020, 08:22:11 PM »

I dont recall anyone questioning the Chinese travel ban.  Anyone. 

You're kidding right - did you watch the democratic presidential debates? - Joe Biden AND Bernie Sanders said those bans
to China and Europe were xenophobic, if not racist - and they WOULD not have imposed them. Go back and listen.

https://www.redstate.com/jeffc/2020/03/14/biden-insists-on-opposing-coronavirus-travel-ban-despite-the-advice-of-experts/

https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/19/neither-biden-nor-sanders-would-have-saved-american-lives-with-travel-bans-like-trump-did/

https://nationalfile.com/flashback-biden-opposed-trumps-chinese-coronavirus-travel-ban-as-xenophobia/

https://nypost.com/2020/03/01/criticisms-of-trumps-coronavirus-response-are-sickening-devine/

2 points on this:

1.  None of the articles you included have Biden or Sanders criticizing the travel ban.  The very, very politicized articles twist words to imply that is the case.  They called Trump xenophobic but didn't say anything about the travel ban being wrong or inappropriate.

2.  Just the publications you have used to try and prove the point....well kinda proves all the points being made here.  You are so caught up in Trump-fever and reinforcing views that you have lost all capability to think logically for yourself. At least the people here can admit fault in democrats and hold independent views of their own.  Not the case on your end.