Cryptocurrencies

[mattee2264]

 Any of you familiar with a product called Bitcoin Tracker One?

 https://coinshares.com/etps/xbt-provider/bitcoin-tracker-one

 Unfortunately Grayscale Bitcoin Trust is no longer available in the UK and I was looking for something that could be held within a retirement account so as to avoid capital gains tax. Also I am a bit leery holding bitcoin directly or via Revolut because of security issues.

 

[SharperDingaan]

Not familiar with Bitcoin Tracker One, I use Coinsquare and assume that it will be hacked. Move token in/out for the trade, and cold-store directly at Mt Gox. My reliance is on Canadian regulatory BoC/OSFI enforcement, as I assume Coinsquare enforcement is rubbish. https://coinsquare.com/

For most uses, BTC as an investment in a retirement account just isn't worth the effort - regulation &/or adequate instruments haven't sufficiently evolved yet. If you insist on speculating in BTC, assume 2-3 swing trades per year, and accept the tax as just another cost of doing business. Sometimes you will be paying tax, sometimes the tax man will be paying you.

BTC is also NOT an investment, just as holding a USD is NOT an investment.
Sure you can buy/sell to capture a valuation difference, but BTC is just a parking spot - it could just as easily have been a tulip, or a 2nd property, denominated in the other currency. If the investment objective is protection against inflation, simply hold bullion directly &/or units of a precious metals fund.

SD

[Castanza]

 Any of you familiar with a product called Bitcoin Tracker One?

 https://coinshares.com/etps/xbt-provider/bitcoin-tracker-one

 Unfortunately Grayscale Bitcoin Trust is no longer available in the UK and I was looking for something that could be held within a retirement account so as to avoid capital gains tax. Also I am a bit leery holding bitcoin directly or via Revolut because of security issues.

Get a hardware wallet https://www.ledger.com/

[TwoCitiesCapital]

 Any of you familiar with a product called Bitcoin Tracker One?

 https://coinshares.com/etps/xbt-provider/bitcoin-tracker-one

 Unfortunately Grayscale Bitcoin Trust is no longer available in the UK and I was looking for something that could be held within a retirement account so as to avoid capital gains tax. Also I am a bit leery holding bitcoin directly or via Revolut because of security issues.

Get a hardware wallet https://www.ledger.com/

I second the hardware wallet approach, but not certain that it helps in a retirement account unless if there is some way to do it via self-directed accounts.

OP - are you able to access foreign markets? GBTC trades here in the US and is probably accessible through a broker like Interactive Brokers.

[rkbabang]

 Any of you familiar with a product called Bitcoin Tracker One?

 https://coinshares.com/etps/xbt-provider/bitcoin-tracker-one

 Unfortunately Grayscale Bitcoin Trust is no longer available in the UK and I was looking for something that could be held within a retirement account so as to avoid capital gains tax. Also I am a bit leery holding bitcoin directly or via Revolut because of security issues.

Get a hardware wallet https://www.ledger.com/

I second the hardware wallet approach, but not certain that it helps in a retirement account unless if there is some way to do it via self-directed accounts.

OP - are you able to access foreign markets? GBTC trades here in the US and is probably accessible through a broker like Interactive Brokers.

I think the point is to keep your BTC in a hardware or paper wallet and not hold it in a retirement account.

[Castanza]

Some interesting talks coming up regarding Central Bank Digital Currencies

https://meetings.imf.org/en/2020/Annual/Schedule/2020/10/19/imf-cross-border-payments-a-vision-for-the-future

Interesting read by Mark Carney

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/speech/2019/the-growing-challenges-for-monetary-policy-speech-by-mark-carney.pdf

[SharperDingaan]

CBDC has been in 'test' for some time (eKrone), and has been very successful. The current push is because of Libra, the digital currency that will be used on Facebook to facilitate payments between Facebook accounts anywhere in the world. Every nation in the world quoting a bid/ask fiat/Libra exchange rate, and every other global Google/Amazon/AliBaba, etc doing much the same thing. Go into an FX exchange and you will see two boards - one for fiat currencies, and one for digital.

Transformative, as a Libra would not be under anyone's regulatory control, and backed only by the full faith and credit of Facebook/Zuckerberg. Coin backed by Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc. having a higher credit rating than some sovereigns? Great idea of course, until the one ring that rules them all shows up (Lord of the Rings). A master CBDC, backed by the worlds central bank (and its network of CB's).

ONE master digital currency, as the reserve currency of the world, and every transaction in that currency (anywhere in the world) visible to central banks. All the quant data that you could possibly want, materially less tax leakage, and far harder to money-launder. Reduce the quantity of physical bills (issued by CB's), and you have to take payment in goods that keep accumulating. Inventory is a bitch!!!!, and the bigger your acorn pile, the more visible it is, and the more likely your 'friends' are to liberate it. The age-old problem of wealth - easy to get rich, keeping it is something else 

The wise accountant would simply dump the inventory at a loss, put the proceeds into Bitcoin, and hedge the value via options/futures. Problem is, the Bitcoin wallet it went into is visible, as well as any transfers out of that wallet - and the ledgers have to be visible to keep the 'system' honest. Ways around this of course, but they cost - and some Oracle, 'somewhere', knows who you are - as they issued the keys to the wallet. Simply make the Oracle an offer that it cannot refuse?

Welcome to the 21st century.
My money is on the master digital currency.

SD


 

 

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[Gregmal]

Cool article

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenehrlich/2020/09/23/visas-crypto-strategy-is-driving-its-next-stage-of-growth/#10d4f26a5c4c

Yea, Visa has a crypto division.

Widespread acceptance has begun. Its happened slowly, and gradually over the past several years. But the table seems set and its hard to see what if anything can stop this. There is essentially no fundamental or execution risk that would normally be an issue with a company. Its all about adding users so to speak.

[Fly]

Thoughts?

https://doubleline.com/dl/wp-content/uploads/The-Pandoras-Box-of-CB-Digital-Currencies-October-2020.pdf

[Cigarbutt]

Thoughts?

https://doubleline.com/dl/wp-content/uploads/The-Pandoras-Box-of-CB-Digital-Currencies-October-2020.pdf

This is an interesting topic with potential investment implications. But it's about 'public' digital currencies which is not exactly the spirit of this thread. I can think of three reasons why central banks would venture into digital currencies and investment implications depend on the reason. Is there a specific aspect of the article that concerns you?