Corner of Berkshire & Fairfax Message Board

General Category => Investment Ideas => Topic started by: Packer16 on August 15, 2014, 07:53:56 PM

Title: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: Packer16 on August 15, 2014, 07:53:56 PM
Another cheap hold co preferred stock.  Taeyoung has an E&C division which provides civil/environmental engineering and architecture services to domestic public and private customers.  Other major subsidiaries include SBS Media (the largest media and television firm in Korea), the largest tank terminal in Korea, golf courses, a resort and water park and water treatment JV with SK which is being gov't funded as a Korea champion of water treatment engineering.  They also own many investment securities.  The common sells for 50% of BV and estimate FV.  The preferred sells for 50% of the common.  So the preferred is 25% of FV.  The E&C industry in Korea is a low point cyclically as is the TV industry.  The look through EBITDA multiple is 3.65x for the common and 1.8x for the preferred.

Packer
Title: Re: 009145.KS Taeyoung E&C
Post by: west on August 15, 2014, 08:15:46 PM
Packer, with all these Korean preferreds you've found, I can't imagine them individually being much of a position, percentage-wise, in your portfolio.  I'm guessing between 1%-2% each?

Sorry if this has already been asked (and answered) in another thread...
Title: Re: 009145.KS Taeyoung E&C
Post by: cobafdek on August 15, 2014, 10:47:51 PM
Thanks for this idea.

Ft.com has 743 trillion Won in Long-term Investments, but according to DART it is 171 trillion Won in Investment Property, both out of 872 trillion Won in Equity.  Any clue which is the correct figure, or is Long-term Investments different from Investment Property?  Also, any clue from other reliable sources as to whether these are carried at cost or at market?  So far I've used only google and DART (getting late, and it's time for me to turn in - it took me a long time to navigate DART).

Apropos of west's question, would any of your Korean preferreds represent 5%, or even 10%, of your portfolio on a cost basis?  Or are they small positions in a larger basket, presumably because of the language barrier?
Title: Re: 009145.KS Taeyoung E&C
Post by: Packer16 on August 16, 2014, 04:44:27 AM
The way I see the pieces is: SBS Media stake (W351 bn) plus other cash and securities (W280 bn) plus real estate ((W185 bn) less debt (W350 bn) plus engineering operations (7 * W60bn EBITDA) = W886bn.  This has some pretty conservative assumptions like a low EBITDA for E&C business and a depressed EBITDA for SBS Media.  This value divided by total shares of 79m less treasury stock of 13.5m results in shares of 65.5m.  So value per share is W13,500.  Book value is around W11,700.  Current preferred share price is W2,975.   

As to size my positions at cost range from 2 to 4% and I have about 7 positions for a total of about 20% now based upon value.

Packer
Title: Re: 009145.KS Taeyoung E&C
Post by: investor-man on August 16, 2014, 09:25:00 AM
The way I see the pieces is: SBS Media stake (W351 bn) plus other cash and securities (W280 bn) plus real estate ((W185 bn) less debt (W350 bn) plus engineering operations (7 * W60bn EBITDA) = W886bn.  This has some pretty conservative assumptions like a low EBITDA for E&C business and a depressed EBITDA for SBS Media.  This value divided by total shares of 79m less treasury stock of 13.5m results in shares of 65.5m.  So value per share is W13,500.  Book value is around W11,700.  Current preferred share price is W2,975.   

As to size my positions at cost range from 2 to 4% and I have about 7 positions for a total of about 20% now based upon value.

Packer

7 positions?!? I don't know where you find the time :)

Thanks for this idea! I have been looking at it since you mentioned it in another thread. This one is particularly attractive to me because it's easier to understand than some of the others you have posted.

S. Korea seems to be a great opportunity now, and day after day I read of a new bit of legislation or policy that is growth and shareholder friendly. The country risk premium (according to Demodaran) is pretty small, but that said the wildcard to the north does worry me a bit...
Title: Re: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: investor-man on October 11, 2014, 08:34:23 PM
Saw this mention of Taeyoung E&C on ValueWalk

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/10/hunting-bargain-stocks-low-risk-south-korea/

I tried to sign up for the free trial to the newsletter at Value Investors Insite but the confirmation email never came. It seems like a low tech operation. Maybe I'll hear from them during the week.
Title: Re: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: Packer16 on October 12, 2014, 03:05:29 AM
If you go to the Petra Capital management site you can download this for free.

Packer
Title: Re: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: investor-man on October 12, 2014, 06:15:42 AM
If you go to the Petra Capital management site you can download this for free.

Packer

Hmmm.... I see it now. Thanks.

For anyone else interested, there are two Petra Capital Managments. This is the correct one: http://www.petracm.com/
Title: Re: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: investor-man on November 11, 2014, 06:21:19 PM
I'm pretty sure there's a dude out there who has two accounts. In one of those accounts he sells 5 shares of 009415 for 4% to 5% lower than the previous close, and in the other he buys it. Then my guess is he tries to pick up as many shares as he can at the lower price he's created. I hate this dude. 
Title: Re: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: investor-man on June 17, 2015, 08:01:01 PM
Anyone seen any news on this. I don't see anything in Dart newer than June 3rd, and that looks like a restatement -- wish the common was soaring along with the preferred, but I guess I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth
Title: Re: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: matjone on June 19, 2015, 08:29:48 PM
where are you guys finding reports for this company?
Title: Re: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: Packer16 on June 19, 2015, 08:37:22 PM
You can google Taeyoung E&C analyst report and/or you can goto DART and pull down the annual or quarterly filing.

Packer
Title: Re: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: misterkrusty on July 10, 2015, 11:48:29 AM
why is this up 30% today?  i can't find any news on the web ... or even a press release section on their websites ... or recent filings on DART.  arghhh!!!
Title: Re: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: investor-man on July 10, 2015, 12:42:38 PM
It has been all over the place since Packer's article ;)
Title: Re: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: investor-man on July 13, 2015, 07:37:11 PM
Silly me for lightening up a bit thinking it would be CRAZY for the preferred to be more expensive than the common  :-\
Title: Re: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: misterkrusty on July 22, 2015, 10:35:12 AM
could someone please tell me what the heck is driving the recent run-up in price?  can't find any news, and I see that the rise preceded the beyondproxy interview with Packer, so that ain't the cause
Title: Re: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: Packer16 on July 22, 2015, 03:23:58 PM
I have no idea but Mr. Market is pretty active.  With only 2.5 m shares outstanding some days you have 100% of the shares traded.

Packer
Title: Re: 009415.KS - Taeyoung E&C Preferred
Post by: plato1976 on September 10, 2016, 07:52:05 PM
Guys, any idea why this one has been climbing up?


I have no idea but Mr. Market is pretty active.  With only 2.5 m shares outstanding some days you have 100% of the shares traded.

Packer