Author Topic: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.  (Read 68070 times)

SafetyinNumbers

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #150 on: November 07, 2019, 08:25:42 AM »
Thanks, Safety, the long term is way better than I thought. I was looking at the 10 year.

The 10 year shows decent outperformance over the S&P/TSX too (as measured by the XIU so I could include reinvested dividends).

I'm using this site below though so maybe there is a glitch.

https://www.canadastockchannel.com/compound-returns-calculator/


mranski

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #151 on: November 07, 2019, 08:31:01 PM »
I was eyeballing Morningstar financials, eps, and NI, SINCE 09.

SafetyinNumbers

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #152 on: November 29, 2019, 07:24:18 AM »
First decent insider purchase from the Jackman's in a long time.

https://www.canadianinsider.com/company?ticker=ELF

9600 shares at $737.50 takes holdings to 518,358 shares.

mjm

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #153 on: November 29, 2019, 08:34:10 AM »
it says Canadian & Foreign Securities Co. Limited bought.  is this controlled by Jackman's?

SafetyinNumbers

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #154 on: November 29, 2019, 08:48:35 AM »
it says Canadian & Foreign Securities Co. Limited bought.  is this controlled by Jackman's?

Yes, that is my understanding.

spartan

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #155 on: December 03, 2019, 01:40:34 PM »
A few questions for the more enlightened ones on this message board:

1. As per SEDI filings, the Jackmans have been buying shares of ELF and EVT at a steady pace for years. Should these be viewed as buybacks in disguise? If so, what is the end game?

2. If they ever decide to go private, would they be legally required to offer minority shareholders a reasonable price for their shares? What protections do minority shareholders have when it comes to getting at least book value in the event of privatization.

3. For those that aren't particularly familiar with Canadian estate planning, how could the eventual passing of Hal be a catalyst?

SafetyinNumbers

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #156 on: December 03, 2019, 07:38:53 PM »
A few questions for the more enlightened ones on this message board:

1. As per SEDI filings, the Jackmans have been buying shares of ELF and EVT at a steady pace for years. Should these be viewed as buybacks in disguise? If so, what is the end game?

2. If they ever decide to go private, would they be legally required to offer minority shareholders a reasonable price for their shares? What protections do minority shareholders have when it comes to getting at least book value in the event of privatization.

3. For those that aren't particularly familiar with Canadian estate planning, how could the eventual passing of Hal be a catalyst?

1. It's not a buyback but the family never sells any shares so the supply is removed. So theoretically, the price should rise if demand is the same. That being said, there is no accretion to NAV benefit that helps all shareholders except if the shares rise, the discount will close. When the discount was much smaller, at an AGM, Duncan joked that because they are always buying stock, eventually there won't be any left and the discount should close.

2. They can offer whatever price they want but they would have to get the majority of the minority to agree to it. Perhaps that bar is low right now but I don't know if they want to be seen as doing a take under for their image. All the more reason to do substantial issuer bids every few years.

3. I'm no expert on Canada estate planning but I know on death there is a deemed disposition for tax purposes of all holdings. It's possible that back when ELF sold the P&C biz and paid a special dividend, they might have done an estate freeze at that point and paid a lot of tax. The stock really hasn't gone up much since then (even though the NAV has) so they might have very little tax to pay now. It's just a theory and no evidence to back it up. The Jackmans seem very practical so I don't think it would be surprising if this was the case and if it was actually Hal's idea.

Cigarbutt

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #157 on: December 04, 2019, 06:09:19 AM »
Disclosure: I've only followed superficially since the sale of the property-casualty unit but this has been, effectively, a privatization in slow motion.

The privatization could be tomorrow or could be, essentially, never but it's hard to actualize the value of the discount closing. The return going forward will tend to correlate highly with life insurance results.

The Jackman family is not exactly transparent but it is reasonable to assume that they've set up their affairs with a permanent state of mind:
https://www.empire.ca/sites/default/files/2017-05/CapYourTaxesWithAnEstateFreeze-EN-web.pdf

mjm

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #158 on: December 04, 2019, 08:23:36 AM »
does any one know what the number "97-other" means under Jackson's stock trades in inside trading?

mjm

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #159 on: December 04, 2019, 08:30:21 AM »
< In a typical corporate estate freeze, the owner of the common shares of the company will exchange those shares for fixed value preferred shares. By making the appropriate elections under the Income Tax Act, the exchange of the shares will not be taxed until the freezer dies. New common shares (and the eventual tax on future growth in value) will be issued to the freezer’s children or grandchildren> 

above from posted address that  Cigarbutt posted.

it would seem from my limited knowledge that if jackson has indeed frozen assets per buying preferred(of which he appears to have done quite a lot of lately) and if the amount is indeed frozen it would possibly behoove the heirs to get the value of ELF closer to its fair value whereby the future taxable value may be less once it comes into their possession versus the much discounted value of present.