Author Topic: JEF - Jefferies Group  (Read 599201 times)

peter1234

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Re: JEF - Jefferies Group
« Reply #860 on: August 08, 2014, 11:43:26 PM »
Does anyone have a list of the deals that they've done in the last few years and how they have panned out?  It would be interesting to compile the list and try to calculate an all-in return for their seed capital.  If they have 2010, 2011, and 2010 seed vintages, we can probably figure out how the funds have performed and how AUM have ramped during that time.  Maybe, we will be surprised to learn that they're hitting 0.400 and it's actually really great ROI.  The upside could be in the future when the annuity stream grows larger as the funds go from $50mm to $1.0bn.

This would be great data.

This seeding biz/asset gathering biz seems to be very cyclical, meaning you do very well in a rising market of your asset class.

Not sure what to make of it. This was a period of rising markets, so the more risk you took, the better your funds performed.

Going forward the environment might be different.

 ;)


topofeaturellc

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Re: JEF - Jefferies Group
« Reply #861 on: August 09, 2014, 05:32:15 AM »
of course the better the markets the worse your adverse selection issue.

rogermunibond

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Re: JEF - Jefferies Group
« Reply #862 on: August 09, 2014, 08:46:04 AM »
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/more-hedge-funds-lured-to-new-source-of-capital-2011-05-23

Interesting how Topwater funds HFs putting the managers in first loss position.

BG2008

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Re: JEF - Jefferies Group
« Reply #863 on: August 09, 2014, 09:32:27 AM »
There's a fairly robust discussion on VIC regarding first loss funding.  I personally would put it in the category of "won't touch with a 10 foot pole"

topofeaturellc

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Re: JEF - Jefferies Group
« Reply #864 on: August 09, 2014, 09:52:59 AM »
I struggle with how a value investing style would work with first loss.

It would seem like something for someone who wants to run a millennium type book, but can't get a gig at one of those places for some reason.

But from the LUK perspective, assuming Topwater has robust risk controls its pretty much a heads I win, tails I break even situation.

rogermunibond

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Re: JEF - Jefferies Group
« Reply #865 on: August 09, 2014, 10:01:10 AM »
Agreed in a really bad downturn that first loss position is easily wiped out. 

ajc

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Re: JEF - Jefferies Group
« Reply #866 on: August 12, 2014, 10:31:57 AM »

Valuation of a LNG terminal play. Not Oregon, but still worth reading for the sake of comparison.

http://insuranceinvestor.wordpress.com/2014/08/12/riding-seth-klarmans-coat-tails-on-this-aussie-listed-lng-export-play/


« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 05:49:29 AM by ajc »

scorpioncapital

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Re: JEF - Jefferies Group
« Reply #867 on: August 18, 2014, 10:06:51 AM »
I notice a pattern in LUKs recent investments in other jockeys. They invest in people who have been fined, sued, gone bankrupt, or have criminal controversy surrounding them. The market doesn't seem to like this strategy so far...

Kcg -  lost 400m on a trading glitch, almost went bankrupt. Jeffries invests.

Hrg - run by falcone, fined by sec and barred from hedge fund operations for using the fund as his piggy bank for paying personal taxes -  LUK invests as fund unwinds Hrg holding.

That coal guy in Australia - almost goes bankrupt, has to sell his horses to start a new mining venture. LUK involved.

Kumin - just gave him 400m. He worked for Cohen' sac advisors which had quite a few problems with the sec.

Trend - invest in beat up money men?

Grenville

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Re: JEF - Jefferies Group
« Reply #868 on: August 18, 2014, 10:13:29 AM »
Kumin - just gave him 400m. He worked for Cohen' sac advisors which had quite a few problems with the sec.

I didn't realized they finalized the deal with Kumin. Thanks for the heads up. Here's an article from the WSJ:

Ex-SAC Executive Kumin's Hedge-Fund Firm Gets Leucadia Investment
http://online.wsj.com/articles/ex-sac-executive-kumins-hedge-fund-firm-gets-leucadia-investment-1408309096

Picasso

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Re: JEF - Jefferies Group
« Reply #869 on: August 18, 2014, 10:15:10 AM »
I notice a pattern in LUKs recent investments in other jockeys. They invest in people who have been fined, sued, gone bankrupt, or have criminal controversy surrounding them. The market doesn't seem to like this strategy so far...

Kcg -  lost 400m on a trading glitch, almost went bankrupt. Jeffries invests.

Hrg - run by falcone, fined by sec and barred from hedge fund operations for using the fund as his piggy bank for paying personal taxes -  LUK invests as fund unwinds Hrg holding.

That coal guy in Australia - almost goes bankrupt, has to sell his horses to start a new mining venture. LUK involved.

Kumin - just gave him 400m. He worked for Cohen' sac advisors which had quite a few problems with the sec.

Trend - invest in beat up money men?

Probably been a trend for a while given the shoutout Ackman gave to Leucadia in his last shareholder letter.