Author Topic: TRUP - Trupanion  (Read 26687 times)

Packer16

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Re: TRUP - Trupanion
« Reply #70 on: August 21, 2019, 07:51:22 AM »
This does not look like insurance at all but pre-paid vet services.  I do not see why consumers (who would be organized enough to budget for pet insurance) would not put the equivalent of the insurance premium into an account & earn interest on it versus pay TRUP 30% of the premium.  I just do not see the value proposition here.  IMO it appears these guys are marketing a product that may have emotional appeal but economically does not make sense.  My question would be why do Europeans have such a high penetration of a product that is nothing more than pre-paid vet services?

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KCLarkin

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Re: TRUP - Trupanion
« Reply #71 on: August 21, 2019, 08:29:14 AM »
This does not look like insurance at all but pre-paid vet services.  I do not see why consumers (who would be organized enough to budget for pet insurance) would not put the equivalent of the insurance premium into an account & earn interest on it versus pay TRUP 30% of the premium.  I just do not see the value proposition here.  IMO it appears these guys are marketing a product that may have emotional appeal but economically does not make sense.  My question would be why do Europeans have such a high penetration of a product that is nothing more than pre-paid vet services?

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Just looked at the Canadian product and it does look like true Pet Insurance.

I'm almost convinced to buy this, but it is very expensive. $100CAD per month even with a $1000 deductible. I guess I'll stick with self-insurance.

Happy

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Re: TRUP - Trupanion
« Reply #72 on: August 21, 2019, 08:31:23 AM »
This does not look like insurance at all but pre-paid vet services.  I do not see why consumers (who would be organized enough to budget for pet insurance) would not put the equivalent of the insurance premium into an account & earn interest on it versus pay TRUP 30% of the premium.  I just do not see the value proposition here.  IMO it appears these guys are marketing a product that may have emotional appeal but economically does not make sense.  My question would be why do Europeans have such a high penetration of a product that is nothing more than pre-paid vet services?

I think you underestimate how big a percentage of the population doesn't carry large savings and lives paycheck to paycheck for the most part. For someone with a lot of money who can easily take the financial hit if their pet is "unlucky" the value proposition is not there. But I remember seeing stats that suggested that a lot of people couldn't deal with that financially.

Cigarbutt

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Re: TRUP - Trupanion
« Reply #73 on: August 21, 2019, 08:54:13 AM »
^Taken literally, this would mean that the expense ratio part of the underwriting is superfluous as people should be able to build peace of mind instead of buying it.

FWIW, I have been spending some time on the private side of long-term care insurance (vs GE and all that) and have realized how it has failed to gain traction in the US and how its path has diverged from many european counterparts. The idea of building a cushion for rainy days is not in vogue these days.

IMO, TRUP offers a good product for its potential clientele but expectations are simply too high.
They have made a distinction though that defines them as a true insurance product and not simply as a pre-paid pet wellness service.
https://trupanion.com/canada/pet-insurance/pet-insurance-vs-pet-wellness


Jurgis

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Re: TRUP - Trupanion
« Reply #74 on: August 21, 2019, 09:17:46 AM »
I think you underestimate how big a percentage of the population doesn't carry large savings and lives paycheck to paycheck for the most part.

If they live paycheck to paycheck, they should probably not have a pet.

OTOH, for majority of the big ticket vet items, the solution is not pet insurance, but rather putting the pet to sleep. Yeah, I know I'm gonna get hit by compassionate pet owners again, but $5K for your fluffy could save at least 10 children in Africa. Or 10 healthy just born fluffies that are being put down every day.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 09:19:57 AM by Jurgis »
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Cigarbutt

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Re: TRUP - Trupanion
« Reply #75 on: August 21, 2019, 10:50:02 AM »
...
OTOH, for majority of the big ticket vet items, the solution is not pet insurance, but rather putting the pet to sleep. Yeah, I know I'm gonna get hit by compassionate pet owners again, but $5K for your fluffy could save at least 10 children in Africa. Or 10 healthy just born fluffies that are being put down every day.
I share your emotional detachment but this has had essentially 0% impact on my household concerning the number of pets or pet-related expenditures. 8)
Staying on an anecdotal level, a short while ago, a couple I know peripherally did not hesitate in funding an expensive knee reconstruction for their dog in order to allow the animal ('their baby') to limp along towards the end, all the while denting significantly their discretionary budget.
If you could build some kind of AI-like program that predicts family bonding with pets and propensity to pay (somehow) for vet services, you would look at the following demographic features: millennials, middle-aged couples with no or older kids, higher income and urban dwellers. These are favorable demographic features that will continue to improve and may even be recession-proof, at least to some degree.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a-recession-proof-industry-you-can-count-on-pet-care-2019-07-02

FWIW, I think that offering the product, as much as possible from the regulation point of view, from the perspective of the veterinary office is the right one.
https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/190115a.aspx

mcmaaaaath

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Re: TRUP - Trupanion
« Reply #76 on: August 22, 2019, 09:46:27 AM »
I think you underestimate how big a percentage of the population doesn't carry large savings and lives paycheck to paycheck for the most part.

If they live paycheck to paycheck, they should probably not have a pet.

OTOH, for majority of the big ticket vet items, the solution is not pet insurance, but rather putting the pet to sleep. Yeah, I know I'm gonna get hit by compassionate pet owners again, but $5K for your fluffy could save at least 10 children in Africa. Or 10 healthy just born fluffies that are being put down every day.

There are analogies to humans to. Why have health insurance? If you get sick, just kill yourself instead of paying that $20k bill. Then your wife can take the money and save 40 kids in Africa and humanity will be better off.

At the end of the day, pet owners do not give a fuck about your definition of morality. And so some of them are willing to pay $50-100 per month to maybe save a $5k or $10k bill later. It's really that simple. 

rkbabang

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Re: TRUP - Trupanion
« Reply #77 on: August 22, 2019, 10:12:29 AM »
I think you underestimate how big a percentage of the population doesn't carry large savings and lives paycheck to paycheck for the most part.

If they live paycheck to paycheck, they should probably not have a pet.

OTOH, for majority of the big ticket vet items, the solution is not pet insurance, but rather putting the pet to sleep. Yeah, I know I'm gonna get hit by compassionate pet owners again, but $5K for your fluffy could save at least 10 children in Africa. Or 10 healthy just born fluffies that are being put down every day.

There are analogies to humans to. Why have health insurance? If you get sick, just kill yourself instead of paying that $20k bill. Then your wife can take the money and save 40 kids in Africa and humanity will be better off.

At the end of the day, pet owners do not give a fuck about your definition of morality. And so some of them are willing to pay $50-100 per month to maybe save a $5k or $10k bill later. It's really that simple. 

I agree with you, which is why I own TRUP, but me personally, I like my dog, but I would never pay $5k for a pet procedure.  $10K? that is just insane.  I don't need pet insurance, because I simply wouldn't pay for that kind of treatment.  I've had pets my whole life and neither my parents when I was young nor me as an adult ever paid thousands of dollars to treat a pet. You put the dog down and get another one.  If you have young children you use it as an opportunity to teach them about death and grieving.

EricSchleien

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Re: TRUP - Trupanion
« Reply #78 on: September 08, 2019, 12:17:09 PM »
This rationale for selling from a former long investor was interesting.

https://intrinsicinvesting.com/2019/08/07/why-we-sold-trupanion/

His rationale wasn't very rational. You could do an hour of research and see that all of these "red-flags" really are a non-issue. But hey, that's what makes a market and my views are my own. I've been buying more and lending out my shares and getting about a ~5% yield on my position.

I wrote a little note about it on my blog with the Intrinsic Investing post as my inspiration. Of course, do your own research.

Post: https://www.gscm.co/blog/trupanion-slowing-growth-amp-issues-in-california