Author Topic: Alabama just passed a near-total abortion ban; No exceptions for rape/incest  (Read 11978 times)

Castanza

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Let me change it for you. "You can't stop women from murdering unborn children, but you can stop them from doing it legally."
We can't stop Americans from murdering Arabs legally, either.

You're talking semantics and it's nonsense.

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If someone is the innocent victim of a horrible crime (rape), why is it an acceptable solution/response to harm (kill) another innocent victim? 
Why is it acceptable to force a woman to give birth?
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1. So you want to justify another killing by pointing out the injustice of another? I don;t agree with the continual wars in the Middle East, but that is completely unrelated to abortion in any way shape or form. But I'm being nonsensical? Again legality /== morality. You should not be allowed to have ownership over another person in a way which allows you to determine life or death. That is quite on par with slavery.

2. Because someones (A person brought into the world by actions of the mother) right to life supersedes someones inconvenience of 9 months (which was brought on by themselves). 


stahleyp

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As someone who used to be on the fence with abortion (but now more in the pro-life camp), why should a human be allowed to kill another human?
So many reasons. We have been killing each other since day 1, for reasons both "just" and "unjust", all subjective to the individual. What makes you right?

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Let me change it for you. "You can't stop women from murdering unborn children, but you can stop them from doing it legally."
We can't stop Americans from murdering Arabs legally, either.

You're talking semantics and it's nonsense.

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If someone is the innocent victim of a horrible crime (rape), why is it an acceptable solution/response to harm (kill) another innocent victim? 
Why is it acceptable to force a woman to give birth?

Isn't everything subjective in your worldview? If everyone is just "making it up as they go along" why hold much of an opinion on anything? In other words, if your conscience isn't anything beyond yourself, why trust it? The only thing that makes me "right" is logical consistency (if everything is subjective). Human life either has value or it doesn't. Let's not act like it does in certain situations but not in others.

Also, you probably should edit your quote a bit. It looks like I said certain things there which I didn't say.
Paul

stahleyp

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Anyone read Freakonomics? There was a clear correlation between allowing abortions and a decrease of crimes rates about 18 years later found. The moral issue aside, it makes sense that unwanted kids have a high probability of becoming criminals.

I think we we also see it widening the social devide - middle class / rich parent teenager (who is much less likely to get into this predicament to begin with )  gets an airplane ticket to a “medical vacation”, poor teenage gets gets to toughen it out. College admission scandal all over.

Agreed with Spekultius, this correlation (legalized abortion & decrease crime rate effect) is well documented. These redneck senators are out of their minds and we are in the year of the lord 2019! Are they also planning on bringing back the Holy Office of the Inquisition?

That is one reason why I didn't have much of an opinion at one time. I can't argue with the premise and it does make sense.

However, I'd imagine that if people "terminated" first time offenders, the crime rates would drop even more than terminating random humans. So, why not do that too?

Paul

Castanza

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Anyone read Freakonomics? There was a clear correlation between allowing abortions and a decrease of crimes rates about 18 years later found. The moral issue aside, it makes sense that unwanted kids have a high probability of becoming criminals.

I think we we also see it widening the social devide - middle class / rich parent teenager (who is much less likely to get into this predicament to begin with )  gets an airplane ticket to a “medical vacation”, poor teenage gets gets to toughen it out. College admission scandal all over.

Agreed with Spekultius, this correlation (legalized abortion & decrease crime rate effect) is well documented. These redneck senators are out of their minds and we are in the year of the lord 2019! Are they also planning on bringing back the Holy Office of the Inquisition?

That is one reason why I didn't have much of an opinion at one time. I can't argue with the premise and it does make sense.

However, I'd imagine that if people "terminated" first time offenders, the crime rates would drop even more than terminating random humans. So, why not do that too?

I agree, it's a dangerous path to go down when you start to justify death because the future of an individual may not be "bright." Surely life in poverty is better than not having a chance at life?

Also, this correlation that Spek pointed out can be correlated to other things as well. Specifically the degradation of the home life. Fatherless homes etc.

Vish_ram

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Politically this will backfire spectacularly on the R.

59% of folks support status quo (Roe v Wade). The distorted democracy of US is going against the general will of the population. 2020 will be interesting.

Castanza

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Politically this will backfire spectacularly on the R.

59% of folks support status quo (Roe v Wade). The distorted democracy of US is going against the general will of the population. 2020 will be interesting.

If you believe in the accuracy of polls sure.

Cardboard

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"Politically this will backfire spectacularly on the R."

LOL!

Like this was adopted in Pennsylvania or Michigan...

Actually with your anti-American views in the China trade thread, I seriously have to question your loyalty.

Cardboard

Cigarbutt

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Politically this will backfire spectacularly on the R.

59% of folks support status quo (Roe v Wade). The distorted democracy of US is going against the general will of the population. 2020 will be interesting.

If you believe in the accuracy of polls sure.
What you believe in, in fact, has a lot to do with conclusions reached.
This issue is a typical example of the growing divide between the 'conservative' and the 'liberal' crowds.
In my humble experience related to what I've seen, people are people and views tend to converge when they become personally involved with tough decisions.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/17/nearly-six-in-ten-americans-say-abortion-should-be-legal/
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 08:05:15 AM by Cigarbutt »

SafetyinNumbers

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It is amazing that some folks who yell pretty hard on this thread seem so uninformed regarding rape.

Ever heard of next day pills?

Crazy cheap. The government should make these free and educate people on using them. Would save a ton of money and the whole ethical debate.

Cardboard

Life starts at conception. It's tantamount to abortion for proponents of these bills.
Top 5 positions: ELF GCM.NT/GCM.WT.B TII.V PIF ATTO

stahleyp

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I’m curious if people who are pro these new abortion laws think that child support should also begin at conception and if the fathers withhold payment what the punishment should be?

I can't say I agree with a total abortion ban but I'll answer it in a general sense.

What do you mean by "child support"? If you mean payment due to increased financial costs, I'll say no. I've had a couple of kids now and I'll say the financial cost at conception is nothing.

Now, if you mean "child support" as if the man should do more for the woman while pregnant then, yes, it should start at conception (or earlier!). 

Of course, ideally, the two people would be married before they had a child (yes, yes, I know I'm in the Dark Ages!). And part of the agreement is that the husband should support the wife more during pregnancy.
Paul