Author Topic: Andrew Yang  (Read 5440 times)

Castanza

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Re: Andrew Yang
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2019, 06:14:01 AM »
We live in a democracy with an electoral college process.  U.S. has 325m ppl.  70% of workers live paycheck to paycheck, 48% can't afford an unexpected $500 emergency as seen in last year's govt shutdown.  The subset of this demographic who live in the swing states control our political future and they are gravitating toward candidates like Trump & Bernie.

I care about the debt and neither of these candidates is fiscally responsible.  If you support Trump's policies, fine.  But if you think he's the best leader for enacting the policies then I don't know how to convince ppl who tolerate a lazy narcissistic person who acts like a 5 y/o.  To me, Bernie is the worst Dem option given policies on Fed Jobs Guarantee (FJG) and Wealth Tax.  Warren's policies about as bad plus she's more polarizing.  I really would like to avoid both of them.  Biden would be more of the same.  My best guess is that the demographic who determines our political future will keep voting in their perceived self interest.  So what's the best solution out of this cycle?

Opponents of UBI have not proposed a better solution.  They just criticize.  FJG and Wealth tax would be disastrous.  That's socialism and the outcome we MUST avoid.  I have no idea what Republicans propose to help the swing voters who live paycheck to paycheck (the deplorables or Romney's 47%) other than tax cuts and deregulation.
 The swing state small towns have been economically decimated so if we let the market's invisible hand do its thing, they're going to get worse because it's unprofitable to set up shop in a town with no money.  So the cycle of brain drain will continue but the electoral college will persist and the remaining deplorables will vote in their self interest and we're going to get worse and worse candidates.  All of these candidates will be fiscally irresponsible.

UBI isn't about fairness.  It's about pragmatism.  I'm open minded to another way out of this vicious voting cycle if anyone suggests it.  A possibility is if a candidate lies their way into office promising the deplorables all the things they want and then enacts fiscally responsible policies but that candidate would get voted out of office in 1 term and the chances of that candidate getting anything done in a divided congress is close to nil.

 

 

We live in a democratic republic. Not a democracy. UBI is not about fairness, it's about greed. If it were about fairness then it would be only directed at people in need.

"Why is it considered greed to want to keep money you earn yet it's not considered greed to want to take money you did not earn?" - Thomas Sowell

"The Transformation of charity into legal entitlement has produced donors without love and recipients without gratitude" - Justice Scalia

Society needs to start looking at itself. What ever happened to personal responsibility? Helping your neighbor and working in your local community? Everyone wants to look to big daddy govt for a handout because it takes less work and effort to legislate from the bench than it does to walk next door and see how that old lady is doing. When in the end you have worse results with far more expense. It's a joke. This isn't the mentality of caring or fairness. It's the mentality of lets throw some slop to the pigs and hope they dont go hungry. Out of sight out of mind. The majority of people who advocate for this probably don't even give to charity or try to help people themselves. People on here are quite financially savvy. How many of you have taken someone under your wing, maybe helped them out financially with both money and decisions? Hell you could take 20k, write OTM puts and give the premiums you make to someone you know is in need. You wouldn't lose a dime and it would be far more cost effective than UBI. And if you have I applaud you because you're better than most.

“It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it.” - Thomas Sowell

This same logic can be applied to charity as well. Gov't wast 1 out of every 2 dollars. That 10-15% I give every year will be cut in half and used in a less effective manner. It negates building relationships and building community. It removes that human aspect and dependence upon each other which also helps instill personal responsibility and accountability.

At the end of the day $1k won't be enough and people will ask for more and society will hear their plea and re-direct it to big daddy govt who will answer the call. Society will continue to degrade. Charity from gov't isn't always a good thing. Look at Africa, a nation which gets tons of charity from US startups etc. Toms shoes and companies alike are directly responsible for stiffing local businesses. Handouts don't create incentive, they create dependence which is the opposite of Capitalism. Even Yang himself said on JRE podcast that most people would probably just stash the money and not use it to contribute to the economy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwIYgZZhehA

If that's what society wants then that's what society gets. I can live with it, but I think it's a mistake long term. If welfare is any type of track record then everyone should be scared of UBI and the unintended consequences. How about just lower taxes and let people keep more of what they earn?

Poverty is less than 1% across all races and genders in the US if you follow three rules
1.) Graduate HS
2.) Don't have a child in HS
3.) Take any full-time job upon graduation (minimum wage or not)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 06:16:35 AM by Castanza »


Liberty

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Re: Andrew Yang
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2019, 11:07:06 AM »
Nothing about his specific proposals, but Yang is smart, honest, willing to listen and change his mind, optimistic, entrepreneurial, has empathy, isn't thirsty for power, not particularly political... I wish all politicians were more like him.

This podcast with him was a good listen:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/8-andrew-yang-dangerously-different-candidate-media/id1469999563?i=1000452045633
"Most haystacks don't even have a needle." |  I'm on Twitter  | This podcast episode is a must-listen

Castanza

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Re: Andrew Yang
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2019, 11:21:45 AM »
Nothing about his specific proposals, but Yang is smart, honest, willing to listen and change his mind, optimistic, entrepreneurial, has empathy, isn't thirsty for power, not particularly political... I wish all politicians were more like him.

This podcast with him was a good listen:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/8-andrew-yang-dangerously-different-candidate-media/id1469999563?i=1000452045633

I agree that Yang is good hearted and seems to be genuine with good intentions. But that doesn't always translate to quality policies. Thirst for power often doesn't start until one has sampled it. Even Lincoln said that.

Liberty

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Re: Andrew Yang
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2019, 12:03:39 PM »
Nothing about his specific proposals, but Yang is smart, honest, willing to listen and change his mind, optimistic, entrepreneurial, has empathy, isn't thirsty for power, not particularly political... I wish all politicians were more like him.

This podcast with him was a good listen:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/8-andrew-yang-dangerously-different-candidate-media/id1469999563?i=1000452045633

I agree that Yang is good hearted and seems to be genuine with good intentions. But that doesn't always translate to quality policies. Thirst for power often doesn't start until one has sampled it. Even Lincoln said that.

When you're at the bottom of the barrel, anything would be an improvement. I can't believe that he could do worse even if he tried. And I believe that if his policies didn't work, he'd change them and try something else. We need more people like that, rather than those who think they have all the answers and that changing your mind is a vice.
"Most haystacks don't even have a needle." |  I'm on Twitter  | This podcast episode is a must-listen

DTEJD1997

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Re: Andrew Yang
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2019, 12:14:27 PM »
We live in a democracy with an electoral college process.  U.S. has 325m ppl.  70% of workers live paycheck to paycheck, 48% can't afford an unexpected $500 emergency as seen in last year's govt shutdown.  The subset of this demographic who live in the swing states control our political future and they are gravitating toward candidates like Trump & Bernie.

I care about the debt and neither of these candidates is fiscally responsible.  If you support Trump's policies, fine.  But if you think he's the best leader for enacting the policies then I don't know how to convince ppl who tolerate a lazy narcissistic person who acts like a 5 y/o.  To me, Bernie is the worst Dem option given policies on Fed Jobs Guarantee (FJG) and Wealth Tax.  Warren's policies about as bad plus she's more polarizing.  I really would like to avoid both of them.  Biden would be more of the same.  My best guess is that the demographic who determines our political future will keep voting in their perceived self interest.  So what's the best solution out of this cycle?

Opponents of UBI have not proposed a better solution.  They just criticize.  FJG and Wealth tax would be disastrous.  That's socialism and the outcome we MUST avoid.  I have no idea what Republicans propose to help the swing voters who live paycheck to paycheck (the deplorables or Romney's 47%) other than tax cuts and deregulation.
 The swing state small towns have been economically decimated so if we let the market's invisible hand do its thing, they're going to get worse because it's unprofitable to set up shop in a town with no money.  So the cycle of brain drain will continue but the electoral college will persist and the remaining deplorables will vote in their self interest and we're going to get worse and worse candidates.  All of these candidates will be fiscally irresponsible.

UBI isn't about fairness.  It's about pragmatism.  I'm open minded to another way out of this vicious voting cycle if anyone suggests it.  A possibility is if a candidate lies their way into office promising the deplorables all the things they want and then enacts fiscally responsible policies but that candidate would get voted out of office in 1 term and the chances of that candidate getting anything done in a divided congress is close to nil.

 

 

We live in a democratic republic. Not a democracy. UBI is not about fairness, it's about greed. If it were about fairness then it would be only directed at people in need.

"Why is it considered greed to want to keep money you earn yet it's not considered greed to want to take money you did not earn?" - Thomas Sowell

"The Transformation of charity into legal entitlement has produced donors without love and recipients without gratitude" - Justice Scalia

Society needs to start looking at itself. What ever happened to personal responsibility? Helping your neighbor and working in your local community? Everyone wants to look to big daddy govt for a handout because it takes less work and effort to legislate from the bench than it does to walk next door and see how that old lady is doing. When in the end you have worse results with far more expense. It's a joke. This isn't the mentality of caring or fairness. It's the mentality of lets throw some slop to the pigs and hope they dont go hungry. Out of sight out of mind. The majority of people who advocate for this probably don't even give to charity or try to help people themselves. People on here are quite financially savvy. How many of you have taken someone under your wing, maybe helped them out financially with both money and decisions? Hell you could take 20k, write OTM puts and give the premiums you make to someone you know is in need. You wouldn't lose a dime and it would be far more cost effective than UBI. And if you have I applaud you because you're better than most.

“It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it.” - Thomas Sowell

This same logic can be applied to charity as well. Gov't wast 1 out of every 2 dollars. That 10-15% I give every year will be cut in half and used in a less effective manner. It negates building relationships and building community. It removes that human aspect and dependence upon each other which also helps instill personal responsibility and accountability.

At the end of the day $1k won't be enough and people will ask for more and society will hear their plea and re-direct it to big daddy govt who will answer the call. Society will continue to degrade. Charity from gov't isn't always a good thing. Look at Africa, a nation which gets tons of charity from US startups etc. Toms shoes and companies alike are directly responsible for stiffing local businesses. Handouts don't create incentive, they create dependence which is the opposite of Capitalism. Even Yang himself said on JRE podcast that most people would probably just stash the money and not use it to contribute to the economy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwIYgZZhehA

If that's what society wants then that's what society gets. I can live with it, but I think it's a mistake long term. If welfare is any type of track record then everyone should be scared of UBI and the unintended consequences. How about just lower taxes and let people keep more of what they earn?

Poverty is less than 1% across all races and genders in the US if you follow three rules
1.) Graduate HS
2.) Don't have a child in HS
3.) Take any full-time job upon graduation (minimum wage or not)

Castanza:

I would shout this from the rooftops X1000!

Fairly simple actions will keep the vast majority of people out of poverty.

I engage in helping/charitable actions/giving....but I could do 10X better than what I have.  I am embarrassed to admit this.  I would challenge other members of the board to increase their helping/charitable acts.  I certainly will.

Engagement with your neighbors/neighborhood and other citizens would go a long, Long, LONG way to improving society.

We are blessed to live in the time/place that we do.

Nell-e

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Re: Andrew Yang
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2019, 04:47:23 PM »
If ppl are saying, 'Yang is smart, honest, willing to listen and change his mind, optimistic, entrepreneurial, has empathy, isn't thirsty for power, not particularly political... I wish all politicians were more like him', then I would argue by default he's the best candidate because none of the others fit that criteria especially the ability to change one's mind.  The rest of the field spews tiresome cliches and are what Howard Marks' deems as first level thinkers who can't conceive of 2nd, 3rd order effects.

It seems like a number of you are of the conservative/libertarian bent.  If that's the case, you should check out this video where Ben Shapiro interviews Yang.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DHuRTvzMFw&t=1s

It's an excellent example of what we need more of.  Ppl of dissenting perspectives exchanging ideas in a civil manner.  It's nice to see that others in this thread have already checked out the Weinstein discussion which is also really good.  The two podcasts don't overlap topics.

In response to Castanza's long reply about personal responsibility, it feels like his stance boils down to 'work harder and you'll be fine'.  There's systemic generational poverty in the country and many ppl don't have access to good schools, libraries, or an internet connection.  People also forget in order to get a career they must get past gatekeepers.  Just like how not every Ivy League graduate will get a job at Goldman Sachs, not every poor person will get an opportunity in the corporate world even if they try.  There are already plenty of overqualified kids with college degrees working at Starbucks.  The gatekeepers to jobs judge you based on name, appearance, gender, age, accent, etc.  Prejudice such as age discrimination is a real thing.  From a company's perspective, would you hire a fresh graduate who's been playing with computers since childhood or a 50 year old laid off assembly line worker who has a new a degree in web design?  How about if this 50 year old trained to be a dental hygienist instead?  If you believe in capitalism, the incentive is to hire the person that increases your profitability and older ppl or poor people with accents lose.  My point is lumping all struggling ppl in one bucket is a gross over-generalization.  There are genuine systemic problems and the people being left behind are gravitating to worse and worse candidates.  Lecturing them about personal responsibility isn't going to change that trend.  I don't agree with all of Yang's policies but IMHO he's the best of the bunch.  I wish in conjunction with UBI he would eliminate the minimum wage but eliminating the min wage is politically unrealistic.  You have to deal with 'what is' and not 'what you think things should be'.  And the Number 1 reason to vote for Yang is because the opposite of Donald Trump is an Asian man with good hair!
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 05:06:01 PM by Nell-e »

Spekulatius

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Re: Andrew Yang
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2019, 05:09:34 PM »
Nothing about his specific proposals, but Yang is smart, honest, willing to listen and change his mind, optimistic, entrepreneurial, has empathy, isn't thirsty for power, not particularly political... I wish all politicians were more like him.

This podcast with him was a good listen:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/8-andrew-yang-dangerously-different-candidate-media/id1469999563?i=1000452045633

I agree that Yang is good hearted and seems to be genuine with good intentions. But that doesn't always translate to quality policies. Thirst for power often doesn't start until one has sampled it. Even Lincoln said that.

When you're at the bottom of the barrel, anything would be an improvement. I can't believe that he could do worse even if he tried. And I believe that if his policies didn't work, he'd change them and try something else. We need more people like that, rather than those who think they have all the answers and that changing your mind is a vice.

I went to one of Andrew Young‘s townhall meeting which was literally in a barn just a few miles from my house across the stateliness in NH this year this May. I feel his platform of universal basic income is weak and limiting but I kind of like this guy. Even got a photo with him and my son out of it.

I asked the question he intends to finance the $2-3 Trillion that his proposal would cost and I felt the answer Issas weak , a combo of digital tax, as well as savings from welfare and mental health programs. I don’t think his math really checks out.

That being said, I do think think some value in the idea, of UBI as it decreases the hurdle to enter the labor force when on welfare. It could also be helpful as stimulus program when the economy goes into a crapper, because you give giving all the people a check will probably cause more spending than the third round of QE or a tax cut for the rich. Basically. Bush did the same thing during the 2001/2002 recession with his prorated tax rebate check, although it was probably too little to make a difference.

Young is just a one man show and it’s a little rough on the details, but he clearly stated that he would be willing to compromise on many things, which I felt was genuine.
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Liberty

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Re: Andrew Yang
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2019, 07:14:06 AM »
Nothing about his specific proposals, but Yang is smart, honest, willing to listen and change his mind, optimistic, entrepreneurial, has empathy, isn't thirsty for power, not particularly political... I wish all politicians were more like him.

This podcast with him was a good listen:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/8-andrew-yang-dangerously-different-candidate-media/id1469999563?i=1000452045633

I agree that Yang is good hearted and seems to be genuine with good intentions. But that doesn't always translate to quality policies. Thirst for power often doesn't start until one has sampled it. Even Lincoln said that.

When you're at the bottom of the barrel, anything would be an improvement. I can't believe that he could do worse even if he tried. And I believe that if his policies didn't work, he'd change them and try something else. We need more people like that, rather than those who think they have all the answers and that changing your mind is a vice.

I went to one of Andrew Young‘s townhall meeting which was literally in a barn just a few miles from my house across the stateliness in NH this year this May. I feel his platform of universal basic income is weak and limiting but I kind of like this guy. Even got a photo with him and my son out of it.

I asked the question he intends to finance the $2-3 Trillion that his proposal would cost and I felt the answer Issas weak , a combo of digital tax, as well as savings from welfare and mental health programs. I don’t think his math really checks out.

That being said, I do think think some value in the idea, of UBI as it decreases the hurdle to enter the labor force when on welfare. It could also be helpful as stimulus program when the economy goes into a crapper, because you give giving all the people a check will probably cause more spending than the third round of QE or a tax cut for the rich. Basically. Bush did the same thing during the 2001/2002 recession with his prorated tax rebate check, although it was probably too little to make a difference.

Young is just a one man show and it’s a little rough on the details, but he clearly stated that he would be willing to compromise on many things, which I felt was genuine.

I don't have a strong opinion on UBI one way or the other.

It would certainly be cheaper than a lot of other things money is wasted on (wars), and it's hard to know how much it would cost because it would act as a pretty big economic stimulus that would end up in different places than when you give money to big banks (more in restaurants and construction and consumer goods and services, which generates value and tax dollars too).

I just like that he's thinking outside the box, facing hard challenges rather than shoving them under the rug, and isn't just playing the horse race, he's actually talking about ideas and about maintaining the economic engine (focus on R&D and STEM and entrepreneurship and people not being chained to their work because they can't afford to take a risk or leave).

IMO his kind of approach would generate a lot more wealth than it would cost, unlike many of the old guard that just want to keep things the same in the face of a rapidly changing world.
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Liberty

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Re: Andrew Yang
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2019, 07:27:56 AM »
If ppl are saying, 'Yang is smart, honest, willing to listen and change his mind, optimistic, entrepreneurial, has empathy, isn't thirsty for power, not particularly political... I wish all politicians were more like him', then I would argue by default he's the best candidate because none of the others fit that criteria especially the ability to change one's mind. =

The only other candidate that I've heard in an interview and thought: "That's a reasonable person, sounds smart and competent and seems like she has good decision-making skills and integrity" was Tulsi Gabbard. I have absolutely no idea about her policies, never seen an official speech or debate, etc.. Just heard her on a podcast (which is probably a better way to get a feel for someone than some pre-written speech--listen to someone speak off-the-cuff for two hours about all kinds of questions and you get a decent feel...).
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 09:58:37 AM by Liberty »
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SafetyinNumbers

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Re: Andrew Yang
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2019, 03:35:37 PM »
Yang is also much more realistic on climate change than all of candidates which appeals to a lot of centrists.
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