Author Topic: Another Case of Racial Profiling  (Read 6037 times)

LC

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2019, 08:43:12 AM »

"Why did you pull me over?" Because your race has a higher probability of committing crimes

"Why didn't you give me a loan?" Because your race has a higher probability of default

 :-\

Quote
Cops profile all the time based on their experience and intuition and check those that are most likely to be offending
...
What I see here is most of the times someone complains in the media to be only checked because of racial profiling, they were in fact caught with something illegal, making the police officer correct in his decision to pull that person over!
And their experience and intuition is most likely wrong. For example:

In a study of 20MM police stops in North Carolina (which was the first state to require this data be collected), white people had a higher probability of being caught with illegal contraband at traffic stops (36%) than black (33%) or hispanic (22%) people, yet had the lowest probability of being stopped in the first place by police.

Now, this is a complex topic. Here is an analysis you may find interesting:
https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/
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Gregmal

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2019, 09:17:06 AM »

"Why did you pull me over?" Because your race has a higher probability of committing crimes

"Why didn't you give me a loan?" Because your race has a higher probability of default

 :-\

Quote
Cops profile all the time based on their experience and intuition and check those that are most likely to be offending
...
What I see here is most of the times someone complains in the media to be only checked because of racial profiling, they were in fact caught with something illegal, making the police officer correct in his decision to pull that person over!
And their experience and intuition is most likely wrong. For example:

In a study of 20MM police stops in North Carolina (which was the first state to require this data be collected), white people had a higher probability of being caught with illegal contraband at traffic stops (36%) than black (33%) or hispanic (22%) people, yet had the lowest probability of being stopped in the first place by police.

Now, this is a complex topic. Here is an analysis you may find interesting:
https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/

Would you care to bring up the statistics on % of violent crime broken down by race?

Tim Eriksen

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2019, 05:56:45 PM »

And their experience and intuition is most likely wrong. For example:

In a study of 20MM police stops in North Carolina (which was the first state to require this data be collected), white people had a higher probability of being caught with illegal contraband at traffic stops (36%) than black (33%) or hispanic (22%) people, yet had the lowest probability of being stopped in the first place by police.

Now, this is a complex topic. Here is an analysis you may find interesting:
https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/

What you cite doesn't prove your point.  In fact it partly proves the opposite.  The police stops were due to violations.  Thus the statistics show that violations are not the same by race, unless you believe that officers are intentionally seeing that the violator is white and purposely letting them go, which is possible, but you have not presented evidence for that.  The violation rate appears to be much lower for whites in the study.

It is totally separate to analyze searches and success rates on those searches.  Blacks were searched at much higher rates yet still had nearly the same rate of finding contraband.  Why?  Is that bias, or officers being smart since their success rate was consistent?  Logically bias would result in a lower success rate.  There is insufficient data to know if each race was just as likely to have contraband.   

Another point I would make is I can't find any corroboration for your statistic.  I looked at some of the data and the probability of whites being caught with contraband were lower in the two groups I looked at (Highway Patrol and Raleigh).  I didn't look at others and couldn't find a summary of all the data anywhere.     

rukawa

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2019, 07:41:52 PM »
Quote
Now, this is a complex topic. Here is an analysis you may find interesting:
https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/

From the site:
Quote
Becker proposed looking at search outcomes. If officers donít discriminate, he argued, they should find contraband ó like illegal drugs or weapons ó on searched minorities at the same rate as on searched whites.

Seem reasonable.

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In our data, the success rate of searches (or the hit rate) is generally lower for Hispanic drivers compared to whites; so the outcome test indicates Hispanics face discrimination. For black drivers, search hit rates are typically in line with those of white drivers, indicating an absence of discrimination.

So they basically found no bias against black. So what did they do?

Quote
Beckerís outcome test is a compelling measure of discrimination. But itís also an imperfect barometer of bias....To address the shortcomings of the outcome test, we built on Beckerís ideas to develop a more robust statistical measure of discrimination: the threshold test

They invented a more complicated test and got the answer they were searching for in the first place. To me this study demonstrates more about the bias of the researchers than it does about racial bias. A researcher can keep doing this forever. They can slice and dice the data, reject portions of it, conduct increasingly complicated tests and basically find an answer that they like.

I regard all these statistical analysis as basically complete junk and I don't really think anyone...even professional statisticians like this guy:
https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/
have any clue as to how to make statistical arguments reliably or intelligently. The real thing people are trying to do is derive casual arguments from statistics. But statistics are just associations. To make a casual argument requires a casual model and then subsequently a careful testing of the casual model.

LC

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2019, 06:18:13 PM »
Really Greg!  You're smarter than this. 

No one said only minorities are pulled over by police or held at gunpoint, but that the number of stops on a per capita basis is inordinately high for minorities than it is for Caucasians. 

Stop wasting posts!  Cheers!
Kind of resurrecting an old topic, but here goes

This shows what the worst police are capable of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMbkBn4joIE&feature=youtu.be

Police arrive at accident scene to find barely conscious driver who just suffered a stroke. Instead of helping him they taser him in the face, pepper spray him, then run over his foot while he's laying on the road because he, "refuses to follow commands." due to being physically unable to move.


Driver skin color? You guessed it.
Cop's first words to the barely conscious man: "Get out the car or I'm going to fucking smoke you"

It's very easy to see why such strong feelings exist against the police.

I mean, how is it that you can tazer someone, pepper spray them in the face for 15 continuous seconds, scream at them to get out of the car, and then expect them to be physically able to comply with your orders? It's nonsense and it's seemingly the standard operating procedure.

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Cardboard

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2019, 05:35:15 AM »
"I mean, how is it that you can tazer someone, pepper spray them in the face for 15 continuous seconds, scream at them to get out of the car, and then expect them to be physically able to comply with your orders? It's nonsense and it's seemingly the standard operating procedure."

Demonizing all police officers because of a few idiots. Seriously?

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LC

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2019, 11:35:34 AM »
A few? Spend an hour on youtube watching police brutality videos. Spend another hour googling police violence statistics.

The reality is there is widely inconsistent behavior within law enforcement because these organizations do not have strong cultures, and where procedures are designed, they are bastardized. Take for example the 21-foot rule, which was morphed into justification to use lethal force vs. anyone holding a sharp edge within a 21-ft radius of an officer.

Look at horror stories of prison enforcement. Or look at CBP of which I just posted this quote about border patrol agents behavior:

Quote
Chandler said "there is no one process" to carry out the policy, leaving agents to coerce migrant parents by whatever means possible to take their children away.

You argue it's a few bad apples engaging in this behavior. I argue it's a weak organizational culture which does not prevent this behavior.
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Spekulatius

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2019, 06:32:17 AM »
Thereís is all kind of profiling going on, not just racial. My first car was a used Ford Probe ( POS ) in the US and I was getting pulled over way more than in my Hyundai, despite driving pretty much the same.

Also drivers in ďricer racersĒ with wings, mods and tinted glass pretty much get pulled over at much higher rates anywhere I lived so far.
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Castanza

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2019, 06:36:36 AM »
A few? Spend an hour on youtube watching police brutality videos. Spend another hour googling police violence statistics.

And you want to remove guns from law abiding citizens  ;D

Gregmal

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2019, 06:44:44 AM »
A few? Spend an hour on youtube watching police brutality videos. Spend another hour googling police violence statistics.

The reality is there is widely inconsistent behavior within law enforcement because these organizations do not have strong cultures, and where procedures are designed, they are bastardized. Take for example the 21-foot rule, which was morphed into justification to use lethal force vs. anyone holding a sharp edge within a 21-ft radius of an officer.

Look at horror stories of prison enforcement. Or look at CBP of which I just posted this quote about border patrol agents behavior:

Quote
Chandler said "there is no one process" to carry out the policy, leaving agents to coerce migrant parents by whatever means possible to take their children away.

You argue it's a few bad apples engaging in this behavior. I argue it's a weak organizational culture which does not prevent this behavior.

LOL. The internet is a wonderful place. Spend enough time searching for just about anything, and you'll likely find plenty of it.

My kid was watching videos of dinosaurs on Youtube. Living, breathing, dinosaurs! Look on Youtube! They're real, I swear! Jesus..."go look on the internet" is proof that there are documented instances of police brutality. Sure. But hardly representative of anything else. Let alone culture prevalent nationwide....Many times, these savages bring it on themselves. You see the video of the Staten Island shootout where a career criminal thug shot a cop and the hooligans on the street are screaming "die!"? Or concerned about the well being of the criminal? Follow the law and your odds on these encounters significantly decreases. That is not to say there won't be instances or that there arent bad cops like those two scumbags in NY who raped an 18 year old girl...but its hardly as prevalent as LC and his lefty brethren go around pretending.