Author Topic: Bernie Sanders casts sinister shadow over the stock market  (Read 2479 times)

Gregmal

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Re: Bernie Sanders casts sinister shadow over the stock market
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2020, 11:38:18 AM »
The other area that supports universities holding their own loans is the fact it serves purpose to the pensions and endowments...Right now much of those funds are bullshit and used to yield power and status, lobby, and make celebrities out of scholars. Instead of school XYZ diverting their funds to Blackstone hoping to achieve 7% annualized returns, why doesnt it make sense for them to appropriately underwrite 5-10 year student loans at 7% rates? Makes all too much sense.


RuleNumberOne

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Re: Bernie Sanders casts sinister shadow over the stock market
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2020, 12:31:23 PM »
Currently we have colleges charging up to $300k for a 4-year stay. They cater to those who could not get into any reasonable university, who have never worked hard in the past and wouldn't be able to work hard in future either. The major doesn't matter because all majors at such colleges require the same effort, everybody graduates with little effort.

At such places, you can get a diploma in any major you want, the quality of education is really low (though the cost seems to be inversely proportional to the quality, e.g. a top university might charge a fraction for the same major). You can graduate in computer science without learning any Unix command, all you need to do is pay $300k. The student loan to pay for this requires no collateral, unlike a mortgage.

Then Bernie wags his finger at taxpayers and forces them to pay for these partying teenagers. He incites mobs of such people. If somebody made the mistake of trying to invent new drugs or medical devices, he threatens to nationalize the biotech and medical device industry. Lets see what happens if he wins Iowa, NH and CA as the polls predict.

The other area that supports universities holding their own loans is the fact it serves purpose to the pensions and endowments...Right now much of those funds are bullshit and used to yield power and status, lobby, and make celebrities out of scholars. Instead of school XYZ diverting their funds to Blackstone hoping to achieve 7% annualized returns, why doesnt it make sense for them to appropriately underwrite 5-10 year student loans at 7% rates? Makes all too much sense.

cherzeca

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Re: Bernie Sanders casts sinister shadow over the stock market
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2020, 12:06:39 PM »
The other area that supports universities holding their own loans is the fact it serves purpose to the pensions and endowments...Right now much of those funds are bullshit and used to yield power and status, lobby, and make celebrities out of scholars. Instead of school XYZ diverting their funds to Blackstone hoping to achieve 7% annualized returns, why doesnt it make sense for them to appropriately underwrite 5-10 year student loans at 7% rates? Makes all too much sense.

converting all student loans into in effect "purchase money mortgages" creates the right incentives...make the university have skin in its own game of producing an educated student able to enter the world on a self sufficient basis.  gregmal for secretary of education!

RuleNumberOne

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Re: Bernie Sanders casts sinister shadow over the stock market
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2020, 12:13:37 PM »
I feel safer posting some very relevant stock market comments under the Politics section.

Has the Grand Experiment Killed Cycles asks a General Discussion thread? - Maybe, but it hasn't killed Bernie Sanders whose national rent-control proposals will kill real estate and banks.

Medical device stocks are hovering at P/Es of 40. Some drug stocks are close to all-time highs, despite Bernie's proposed abolition of private health insurance!!! Right now a breakthrough medical innovation reaches patients immediately in the US thanks to private health insurance, which funds the next cycle of medical innovation and US exports and biotech leadership. That will stop immediately as panels of bureaucrats and hecklers like AOC take over. All we can then export would be farm products.

CoronaVirus is a sad and terrifying disaster especially for people living in Wuhan. For the stock market, Bernie Sanders is a far scarier virus that has already infected a big chunk of the population. Though he is leading Biden and Trump in the polls, the market has assumed either Biden or Trump will be the next President. To people who never put much academic effort but expended $200k-300k of OPM for getting a printout of a diploma, Bernie has promised to erase college debt thereby ensuring his election victory.


cherzeca

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Re: Bernie Sanders casts sinister shadow over the stock market
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2020, 12:56:03 PM »
to my simple mind, sanders has diminished the dignity of work and the dignity of paying your debts, of becoming self-sufficient, all in the pursuit of some conception of social justice...a socialist meme that somewhat amazingly to me, has been picked up at least to some degree by all of the other D candidates. even Biden and bloomie who should know better, but it is hard to compete with free, except to say that free isn't really free, but no registered D voter seems to want to hear that right now

RuleNumberOne

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Re: Bernie Sanders casts sinister shadow over the stock market
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2020, 01:10:38 PM »
European media is worse. They have emitted non-stop anti-Trump venom for the last 3 years even as they expect US defense budgets to protect them.

Bernie has proposed large cuts to US defense expenditure that fund the very innovations that protect Europe - innovations by companies such as Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, General Dynamics, United Technologies that were trading at 52-week highs until last week. Those tickers have started getting whacked in celebration of Bernie's coronation.

European media should be directing their venom against Bernie who has been promising big defense cuts for years. Everybody wants innovation for free. Yeah AOC and Katie Hill are going to innovate for free!

to my simple mind, sanders has diminished the dignity of work and the dignity of paying your debts, of becoming self-sufficient, all in the pursuit of some conception of social justice...a socialist meme that somewhat amazingly to me, has been picked up at least to some degree by all of the other D candidates. even Biden and bloomie who should know better, but it is hard to compete with free, except to say that free isn't really free, but no registered D voter seems to want to hear that right now

lnofeisone

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Re: Bernie Sanders casts sinister shadow over the stock market
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2020, 01:24:42 PM »
He s a novel idea. Privatize education. Make them all for profit. And get the government out of lending. Then they'll have to compete. And competition breeds success. Why pay $35K a year? Because x% of students get in, and out of those, x% graduate, and of those x% get jobs inside of 6 months from graduation in a field related to their studies making $xx,000 on average. On average, student loans are repaid in x years after graduating". Of course, the consumer would need to conduct their own due diligence with respect to the reliability of the "marketing material" but the universities would also then have to underwrite much of their loan book... you'd at least have accountability somewhere.

Right now....Sally studies sea shells at Wesleyan paying $55k a year. Whats the graduation rate for those applicants? dunno. Whats the employment figures? Dunno. How much does she make? dunno. Does she ever repay her loans? dunno

The problem with higher education is that its become viewed as a rite of passage rather than a life decision with financial consequences.

Greg - I think there is a big jump from refocusing how gov't lends money vs. privatizing education (which I think is a terrible idea across the board). If you reduce (probably by 80% or so) and refocus gov't lending to strategic priorities (e.g., teachers) rather than lend $ to everyone, you'll probably get closer to the consequences you are trying to achieve (e.g., get Sally to be more responsible about selecting her future). If you privatize education you will inadvertently shut down engineering schools and physical science schools because universities often lose money (tuition - expenses) on these students (take a look at Cooper Union as one example). Incidentally, these are the students that are more likely to repay the debt.

You'll so end up encouraging universities to promote more sea shell study majors because from university's point of view (you need 1 TA + chalk + room for 30 students for sea shell studies vs. major equipment that needs to be upgraded every 2-3 years + many TAs + specialized rooms for engineering/science majors) sea shell studies are a very high margin business.

There is also a societal component (having the entire world filled with lawyers, doctors, and business professionals is not that great as we need artists, musicians, writers, and even sea shell experts) that can't be overlooked because humanities are important. Even engineering schools are introducing more of humanities in to the curricula because there are very clear positives (even if one only believes NJIT commercial about right/left brain engagement I keep hearing on Bloomy every day  ;D)

The idea of privatizing education always get floated up every 10 years or so in the major education circles. People go through the gymnastics of figuring out why it's a terrible idea and shelve it. 10 years later someone new (usually those without any previous university admin experience) comes in, thinking they have a brand new fresh idea - privatization! - and go through the similar gymnastics thinking people before them were just amateurs. Incidentally, there was a point in my life where I was that new person who had the "fresh and new" thinking. I was wrong.  8)

Gregmal

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Re: Bernie Sanders casts sinister shadow over the stock market
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2020, 02:13:56 PM »
He s a novel idea. Privatize education. Make them all for profit. And get the government out of lending. Then they'll have to compete. And competition breeds success. Why pay $35K a year? Because x% of students get in, and out of those, x% graduate, and of those x% get jobs inside of 6 months from graduation in a field related to their studies making $xx,000 on average. On average, student loans are repaid in x years after graduating". Of course, the consumer would need to conduct their own due diligence with respect to the reliability of the "marketing material" but the universities would also then have to underwrite much of their loan book... you'd at least have accountability somewhere.

Right now....Sally studies sea shells at Wesleyan paying $55k a year. Whats the graduation rate for those applicants? dunno. Whats the employment figures? Dunno. How much does she make? dunno. Does she ever repay her loans? dunno

The problem with higher education is that its become viewed as a rite of passage rather than a life decision with financial consequences.

Greg - I think there is a big jump from refocusing how gov't lends money vs. privatizing education (which I think is a terrible idea across the board). If you reduce (probably by 80% or so) and refocus gov't lending to strategic priorities (e.g., teachers) rather than lend $ to everyone, you'll probably get closer to the consequences you are trying to achieve (e.g., get Sally to be more responsible about selecting her future). If you privatize education you will inadvertently shut down engineering schools and physical science schools because universities often lose money (tuition - expenses) on these students (take a look at Cooper Union as one example). Incidentally, these are the students that are more likely to repay the debt.

You'll so end up encouraging universities to promote more sea shell study majors because from university's point of view (you need 1 TA + chalk + room for 30 students for sea shell studies vs. major equipment that needs to be upgraded every 2-3 years + many TAs + specialized rooms for engineering/science majors) sea shell studies are a very high margin business.

There is also a societal component (having the entire world filled with lawyers, doctors, and business professionals is not that great as we need artists, musicians, writers, and even sea shell experts) that can't be overlooked because humanities are important. Even engineering schools are introducing more of humanities in to the curricula because there are very clear positives (even if one only believes NJIT commercial about right/left brain engagement I keep hearing on Bloomy every day  ;D)

The idea of privatizing education always get floated up every 10 years or so in the major education circles. People go through the gymnastics of figuring out why it's a terrible idea and shelve it. 10 years later someone new (usually those without any previous university admin experience) comes in, thinking they have a brand new fresh idea - privatization! - and go through the similar gymnastics thinking people before them were just amateurs. Incidentally, there was a point in my life where I was that new person who had the "fresh and new" thinking. I was wrong.  8)

You are definitely right. I guess my gist was that introducing free market principles and letting supply and demand take some hold here would probably straighten things out a little. If a sea shell degree costs the university much less, than prices would eventually come down through competition. Or they'd come down when students realize they dont make money after graduating. Or they'd get rejected in the first place when the credit app gets reviewed and underwriting decides $35k a year for a professional that cant support paying that back doesnt justify the risks.

You'd also see more specified sub markets for individual programs/degrees. Just as Porsche developed to support a market for cars different than Toyota...engineering degrees will have different profiles and end users than hip hop studies...

RuleNumberOne

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Re: Bernie Sanders casts sinister shadow over the stock market
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2020, 04:17:20 PM »
Bernie widens his lead in the polls everyday. His simple message of "everything is going to be free from now on" really resonates with voters. Having been written off after his heart attack a few months ago, he is set to give the stock market its own heart attack.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-02/sanders-leads-in-iowa-on-eve-of-caucuses-in-emerson-poll?srnd=premium

"Bernie Sanders led with 28% support from Democrats in a statewide Iowa poll released on the eve of Monday’s caucuses.

In the Emerson College poll of likely Democratic caucus-goers, Joe Biden came in second with 21%, followed by Pete Buttigieg with 15% and Elizabeth Warren with 14%. Amy Klobuchar was fifth, with 11%.

Emerson research assistant Brendan Kane said that those second choices could prove important for Sanders in particular. Almost half of Warren supporters name Sanders a second choice, Kane said, and she is “right on the edge” of the 15% viability threshold in several parts of the state."

Viking

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Re: Bernie Sanders casts sinister shadow over the stock market
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2020, 08:56:38 PM »
Bernie widens his lead in the polls everyday. His simple message of "everything is going to be free from now on" really resonates with voters. Having been written off after his heart attack a few months ago, he is set to give the stock market its own heart attack.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-02/sanders-leads-in-iowa-on-eve-of-caucuses-in-emerson-poll?srnd=premium

"Bernie Sanders led with 28% support from Democrats in a statewide Iowa poll released on the eve of Monday’s caucuses.

In the Emerson College poll of likely Democratic caucus-goers, Joe Biden came in second with 21%, followed by Pete Buttigieg with 15% and Elizabeth Warren with 14%. Amy Klobuchar was fifth, with 11%.

Emerson research assistant Brendan Kane said that those second choices could prove important for Sanders in particular. Almost half of Warren supporters name Sanders a second choice, Kane said, and she is “right on the edge” of the 15% viability threshold in several parts of the state."

I think many people do not understand why Trump won the election and why he continues to be so popular, especially with his base. It is the great untold story.

I wonder if Bernie’s popularity is just as mis understood. My guess is there is more to his support than is generally understood.

Both Trump and Sanders are pretty hated. My guess is their support comes from a very similar place.