Author Topic: Climate change morons  (Read 2230 times)

Cardboard

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Climate change morons
« on: January 19, 2020, 07:29:38 AM »
That is what happens when you let these morons take over:

"Amid rising tensions in Northern British Columbia, where a handful of activists are protesting the Coastal GasLink pipeline -- and where the RCMP recently opened a criminal investigation after finding "traps" and "bags full of fuel-soaked rags" along the project's access road -- the fates have decided to insert a good chuckle. Recently the project's proponents were left scratching their heads after a United Nations committee called on Canada to suspend Coastal GasLink (among other projects) until it obtains indigenous backing. The project does, in fact, enjoy broad indigenous backing, with all 20 of the bands along the route having signed support agreements. This utterly escaped the attention of the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination. In the wake of the committee's report on how "disturbed" and "alarmed" it feels at Coastal GasLink's supposedly callous treatment of the locals, someone has finally decided to tell the poor committee what is going on. It came as a great surprise to committee chairman Nourredine Amir. "I did not know that most first nations agree on [Coastal GasLink]. That is something new that comes to my understanding," he told Reuters yesterday. Reuters took it from there: "Asked why the committee did not gather more information, [Mr.] Amir said its role does not include investigations." Indeed. In fairness, the committee's 18 members are described as "experts of high moral standing and acknowledged impartiality." Rudimentary research skills are not part of the job description."


Gregmal

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Re: Climate change morons
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2020, 07:39:53 AM »
NOOOO! Politics! Wahh....Wahh...Wahhh... shield my sheltered heart!

cubsfan

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Re: Climate change morons
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2020, 10:50:36 AM »
And look what's happening in Australia - environmentalist created disaster:  no clearing of underbrush for years due to the know it all environmentalists.
Years of fuel sources pile up and now catastrophic wildfires with no end.

These people are idiots.

Parsad

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Re: Climate change morons
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2020, 11:28:58 PM »
And look what's happening in Australia - environmentalist created disaster:  no clearing of underbrush for years due to the know it all environmentalists.
Years of fuel sources pile up and now catastrophic wildfires with no end.

These people are idiots.

I'm glad your limited knowledge of brush fires came in handy to back your argument.  The underbrush is not the only reason for the Australian fires.  Alot of that underbrush is drier, almost kindling like, due to warmer weather and less rain every year.  No different than the large fires we are now facing in BC and Alberta, which did not occur in such scale since I've been alive...50 years. 

You have extremists in the climate change argument, and they actually do a disservice to those that actually understand the science, changes in climate (both natural and man-made), and the consequences it will create for humanity over the next 100 years.  But constantly bashing those who are bringing it to your attention and trying to find balance between economics and quality of life...well, if you have children or grand-children, you should certainly give it some thought and what they could be facing in their lifetime when you are gone.  Cheers!
No man is a failure who has friends!

cubsfan

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Re: Climate change morons
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2020, 01:37:27 AM »
And look what's happening in Australia - environmentalist created disaster:  no clearing of underbrush for years due to the know it all environmentalists.
Years of fuel sources pile up and now catastrophic wildfires with no end.

These people are idiots.

I'm glad your limited knowledge of brush fires came in handy to back your argument.  The underbrush is not the only reason for the Australian fires.  Alot of that underbrush is drier, almost kindling like, due to warmer weather and less rain every year.  No different than the large fires we are now facing in BC and Alberta, which did not occur in such scale since I've been alive...50 years. 

You have extremists in the climate change argument, and they actually do a disservice to those that actually understand the science, changes in climate (both natural and man-made), and the consequences it will create for humanity over the next 100 years.  But constantly bashing those who are bringing it to your attention and trying to find balance between economics and quality of life...well, if you have children or grand-children, you should certainly give it some thought and what they could be facing in their lifetime when you are gone.  Cheers!

Sorry you don't know what you are talking about pal. The Australian event is a man-made disaster created by policies and regulations preventing
the traditional seasonal controlled burnoff (during the wet season) of underbrush that has gone on for decades in Australia. Gutless politicians
did not stand up to "the greenies" in Australia who were overly concerned about CO2 emissions.

Why don't you study the problem yourself instead embracing the fear mongering power of your extremist infant, Greta Thunberg?

Parsad

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Re: Climate change morons
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2020, 02:10:34 AM »
And look what's happening in Australia - environmentalist created disaster:  no clearing of underbrush for years due to the know it all environmentalists.
Years of fuel sources pile up and now catastrophic wildfires with no end.

These people are idiots.

I'm glad your limited knowledge of brush fires came in handy to back your argument.  The underbrush is not the only reason for the Australian fires.  Alot of that underbrush is drier, almost kindling like, due to warmer weather and less rain every year.  No different than the large fires we are now facing in BC and Alberta, which did not occur in such scale since I've been alive...50 years. 

You have extremists in the climate change argument, and they actually do a disservice to those that actually understand the science, changes in climate (both natural and man-made), and the consequences it will create for humanity over the next 100 years.  But constantly bashing those who are bringing it to your attention and trying to find balance between economics and quality of life...well, if you have children or grand-children, you should certainly give it some thought and what they could be facing in their lifetime when you are gone.  Cheers!

Sorry you don't know what you are talking about pal. The Australian event is a man-made disaster created by policies and regulations preventing
the traditional seasonal controlled burnoff (during the wet season) of underbrush that has gone on for decades in Australia. Gutless politicians
did not stand up to "the greenies" in Australia who were overly concerned about CO2 emissions.

Why don't you study the problem yourself instead embracing the fear mongering power of your extremist infant, Greta Thunberg?

Do you ignore science solely because it disproves your argument?  The world is not flat, no matter what you believe!

The increased dried underbrush is a cause of warmer temperatures, reduced rain water, and deterioration of soil conditions.  It's not the only cause of these fires, but it is exaggerating the effects and making them worse.  Governments have less resources available for controlled burns, because the sheer amount of dried underbrush is increasing decade over decade.  There has been no decreased burning of underbrush in BC and Alberta, yet we're experiencing fires more often and over greater hectares compared to the past.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-50951043

"So is this down to climate change?
Many Australians are asking that very question - but the science is complicated.

Scientists have long warned that a hotter, drier climate will contribute to fires becoming more frequent and more intense. Many parts of Australia have been in drought conditions, some for years, which has made it easier for the fires to spread and grow.

Data shows that Australia has warmed overall by slightly more than one degree Celsius since 1910, with most of the heating occurring since 1950, the Bureau of Meteorology says."

Cheers!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 02:18:17 AM by Parsad »
No man is a failure who has friends!

Castanza

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Re: Climate change morons
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2020, 06:05:15 AM »
The book: Fire Season: Field Notes from a Wilderness Lookout" by Philip Connors

This is a great resource of how forest management has changed over the year particularly in the US. Lots has changed from a conservation perspective and whether or not man select harvests forests or not does have a big impact on future forest fires and potential ecological health.

That being said, if forests are not allowed to be timbered then we should expect forest fires to happen. It's a natural part of nature and often promotes a much stronger ecological system the following years. It puts nitrogen back in the soil, allows sunlight to reach new areas of the forest floor, and it manages the wildlife populations. The only reason people really make a stink about it is because they've chosen to build homes in areas which are susceptible to fires. Nature will do its things with or without humans.

______________

I do a lot of reading about the timber industry (historic context) in PA. It's quite amazing how "tough" nature can be in regards to human involvement. This past fall I did a solo backpacking trip up near Slate Run PA (Black Forest Trail 42miles). The trail was names the black forest because the hemlocks were so dense at one point that you would need a lantern during the day just to see. The lumber industry in the late 1800's early 1900's harvested a ton of timber from this area as well as all over PA. Well the lumber companies realized that in order to create future revenue they would need to plant trees. So they spent a ton of money planting hemlock trees for the future. nature had other plans and hardwoods such as Beech, Red Oak, Maple, and Cherry quite literally took over the state. This has lead to an ecological system that can support more wildlife and also has produced some of the best hardwood forests in the country. There are actually very few areas in PA and the east coast for that matter, that actually resemble what the forests would have looked like when the pilgrims settled this land. 

To end my rambling basically what I'm saying is that nature will do it's thing. The fires in Australia will stop when the fuel runs out and over the next 20 years there will be new ecological systems developed organically. I do believe we should be good stewards of the environment though.

Another good book is: Encounters with the Archdruid - John McPhee. It reads a bit more like a novel, but the historic context and perspectives are interesting.

Cigarbutt

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Re: Climate change morons
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2020, 07:15:06 AM »
^Interesting perspective. Independent outsider views are useful indeed.

On a personal level, I have seen, over the years, how climate change has affected our ski season (downhill): shorter season, warmer, more rain etc). There are many factors and "natural" cycles can be overriding but there are many causes and some may be reversible? For that specific reason, I don't think I will invest in Vail Resorts, a company I used to like for various reasons, including financial ones.
Here's a link that is not necessarily balanced but some references are helpful. The animated graph (4 quadrant-graph by Robert Rohde) may be food for thought during your next hike. Despite the noise (statistical), it's getting warmer and dryer down under.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/media-reaction-australias-bushfires-and-climate-change

cubsfan

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Re: Climate change morons
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2020, 07:40:45 AM »
RE: Australia, there is no argument that the climate may be changing, albeit slowly - it's been that way for thousands of years.

The question is: is it man made?  The jury is still out, despite what Al Gore, Leonardo DiCaprio and infant Greta say.
Last I checked, 6 years later,  the Arctic IceCap is still there, despite Al Gore's claims they would disappear by 2013.

The issue I raised about Australia is where the environmentalists and climate change morons made the problem WORSE.
For decades, underbrush and timber have been cleared (cut or burned off) proactively, off season to reduce the fuel for wildfires.
Farmers, ranchers and landowners created extensive firebreaks and removed dead or living trees in hopes of limiting the damage
during prime fire season. But green regulations stopped much of that - and contributed hugely to the increase in fuel source - when lightning
or arsonist started the fires. Climate change idiots claim that proactive burning only caused more CO2 emissions and yield no benefits
during fire season. Obviously, they look like idiots now - but with children like Greta "analyzing" the problem - they'll turn the argument
around and blame it on "man-made" climate change.

Next these clowns will go after the coal business in Australia in hopes of sinking the Australian economy for good.

Given the ridiculous argument that we should just "let nature do it's thing" - we ought to get rid of the all dams and levees
in this country and see what happens to St Louis, New Orleans and countless other communities protected by wise (instead of stupid) policies.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 07:45:32 AM by cubsfan »

Cigarbutt

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Re: Climate change morons
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2020, 01:36:26 PM »
RE: Australia, there is no argument that the climate may be changing, albeit slowly - it's been that way for thousands of years.

The question is: is it man made?  The jury is still out, despite what Al Gore, Leonardo DiCaprio and infant Greta say.
Last I checked, 6 years later,  the Arctic IceCap is still there, despite Al Gore's claims they would disappear by 2013.

The issue I raised about Australia is where the environmentalists and climate change morons made the problem WORSE.
For decades, underbrush and timber have been cleared (cut or burned off) proactively, off season to reduce the fuel for wildfires.
Farmers, ranchers and landowners created extensive firebreaks and removed dead or living trees in hopes of limiting the damage
during prime fire season. But green regulations stopped much of that - and contributed hugely to the increase in fuel source - when lightning
or arsonist started the fires. Climate change idiots claim that proactive burning only caused more CO2 emissions and yield no benefits
during fire season. Obviously, they look like idiots now - but with children like Greta "analyzing" the problem - they'll turn the argument
around and blame it on "man-made" climate change.

Next these clowns will go after the coal business in Australia in hopes of sinking the Australian economy for good.

Given the ridiculous argument that we should just "let nature do it's thing" - we ought to get rid of the all dams and levees
in this country and see what happens to St Louis, New Orleans and countless other communities protected by wise (instead of stupid) policies.
The Arctic Sea ice is actually an input I follow to help prove or disprove the underlying thesis. The latest:
https://climate.nasa.gov/climate_resources/155/video-annual-arctic-sea-ice-minimum-1979-2019-with-area-graph/

The New Orleans levee and dam example is interesting. The history of levees and dams is overall positive but mistakes (human) have been made along the way, people have tended to figure out that coordinated efforts work best and often infrastructure is built after the floods (!). New Orleans' history has been punctuated by flood episodes. In many ways, the 1849 one was the most significant although the cost (human) of Katrina was much higher. An interesting feature is that, before 1849, dams and levees were mostly a private affair and the 1849 flood sort of socialized the process and an important piece of legislation then that helped for the infrastructure transition was called the "Drain the swamp" act. :) The big mistake though (human, as a proximate cause) was the founder who put New Orleans where it stands now, despite the evidence and reasoning suggested by his engineer.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/orleans/struggle.html