The Coup

[Viking]

Talk about a coup...........

                                   Trump fires the Secretary of Defence, and it is rumored that the head of the CIA and FBI are next.

Right or Left you all better be concerned. America is ripe for the picking.

Dont worry, I am sure there is no shortage of career bureaucrats at those agencies waiting to step in.

And the point of all of this is?

Yes, let's celebrate that Trump is vindictive and is out to destroy the lives of those in government who would not kiss his ass. Disgusting behaviour. And then people wonder why government is not able to attract competent people with character.

[no_free_lunch]

Why was he fired?  This whole thread has gone very speculative.

[adesigar]

Why was he fired?  This whole thread has gone very speculative.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/us/politics/esper-defense-secretary.amp.html

[Gregmal]

Look at the number of O&G jobs or real estate jobs, many of them providing opportunity for normal blue collar folks to make a real good living. Are these helped, or hurt by regulation?

Seriously?

The wages of millions of tradesmen are protected by building code. Electricians etc. command a higher wage, homeowners get assurance their dryer won't burn down the house, insurance companies have more assurance a house and neighborhood is lower risk...and if you want to pay a guy less to do it less-than-code, well you can do that as well. It's a win-win-win.

Same goes for O&G - entire supporting industries are built to comply with environmental regulation - people who would otherwise be outofajob while shitheads like bob murray dump wastewater out back at 2am and kill their employees by forcing them to engage in dangerous mining techniques.

There is a shortage of skilled tradespeople. Demand exists and has not waned despite peaks and troughs of regulation over the past 10-15 years.

And for every anecdote of a lazy government employee, there's a hard working one and there's also a lazy private sector employee. It's an anecdote. And furthermore most well-funded states have moved to online portals. NYC for example has it's entire DOB and DOT online and has for over a decade - you can apply and pull permits for anything in a few minutes.

And for reference, here's a lovely anecdote about the incredible Frances Kelsey, whose work as a regulator and whose steadfast refusal to bend to corporate influence saved countless children from birth defects:

In 1960, Kelsey was hired by the FDA in Washington, D.C. At that time, she "was one of only seven full-time and four young part-time physicians reviewing drugs"[4] for the FDA. One of her first assignments at the FDA was to review an application by Richardson-Merrell for the drug thalidomide (under the tradename Kevadon) as a tranquilizer and painkiller with specific indications to prescribe the drug to pregnant women for morning sickness. Even though it had already been approved in Canada and more than 20 European and African countries,[8] she withheld approval for the drug and requested further studies.[3] Despite pressure from thalidomide's manufacturer, Kelsey persisted in requesting additional information to explain an English study that documented peripheral neuritis,[9] a nervous system side effect.[4] She also requested data showing the drug was not harmful to the fetus.[9]

Kelsey's insistence that the drug should be fully tested prior to approval was vindicated when the births of deformed infants in Europe were linked to thalidomide ingestion by their mothers during pregnancy.[10] Researchers discovered that the thalidomide crossed the placental barrier and caused serious birth defects.[7] She was hailed on the front page of The Washington Post as a heroine[11] for averting a similar tragedy in the U.S.[12] Morton Mintz, author of The Washington Post article, said "[Kelsey] prevented… the birth of hundreds or indeed thousands of armless and legless children."[11] Kelsey insisted that her assistants, Oyam Jiro and Lee Geismar, as well as her FDA superiors who backed her strong stance, deserved credit as well. The narrative of Kelsey's persistence, however, was used to help pass rigorous drug approval regulation in 1962.[1]

That is all true and yes, there is a cyclicality in terms of regulation in those fields, but end of the day, making it more accessible would be a benefit. There is no reason a handyman makes $50+ an hour while minimum wage is $10 is many states. The skill set difference is not that pronounced. You're telling me some dude who does surveys or appraisals should be making $125k a year? These things exist because its hard to get in relative to what many lower income folks are capable of putting together time and money wise. A mortgage broker can make $10k a month doing little but phone calls but needs a license and a sponsor. Barrier to entry that doesnt need to exist. Theres so many examples of stuff like this in those fields and no, you dont need to do away with safety protocols, but you can make it more accessible.

[Gregmal]

Talk about a coup...........

                                   Trump fires the Secretary of Defence, and it is rumored that the head of the CIA and FBI are next.

Right or Left you all better be concerned. America is ripe for the picking.

Dont worry, I am sure there is no shortage of career bureaucrats at those agencies waiting to step in.

And the point of all of this is?

Yes, let's celebrate that Trump is vindictive and is out to destroy the lives of those in government who would not kiss his ass. Disgusting behaviour. And then people wonder why government is not able to attract competent people with character.

Sure, poor bureaucrat. Another Peter Strok who was making $30k a month for 15+ years off the taxpayer that'll start a GoFundMe....loser.

[Spekulatius]

Look at the number of O&G jobs or real estate jobs, many of them providing opportunity for normal blue collar folks to make a real good living. Are these helped, or hurt by regulation?

Seriously?

The wages of millions of tradesmen are protected by building code. Electricians etc. command a higher wage, homeowners get assurance their dryer won't burn down the house, insurance companies have more assurance a house and neighborhood is lower risk...and if you want to pay a guy less to do it less-than-code, well you can do that as well. It's a win-win-win.

Same goes for O&G - entire supporting industries are built to comply with environmental regulation - people who would otherwise be outofajob while shitheads like bob murray dump wastewater out back at 2am and kill their employees by forcing them to engage in dangerous mining techniques.

There is a shortage of skilled tradespeople. Demand exists and has not waned despite peaks and troughs of regulation over the past 10-15 years.

And for every anecdote of a lazy government employee, there's a hard working one and there's also a lazy private sector employee. It's an anecdote. And furthermore most well-funded states have moved to online portals. NYC for example has it's entire DOB and DOT online and has for over a decade - you can apply and pull permits for anything in a few minutes.

And for reference, here's a lovely anecdote about the incredible Frances Kelsey, whose work as a regulator and whose steadfast refusal to bend to corporate influence saved countless children from birth defects:

In 1960, Kelsey was hired by the FDA in Washington, D.C. At that time, she "was one of only seven full-time and four young part-time physicians reviewing drugs"[4] for the FDA. One of her first assignments at the FDA was to review an application by Richardson-Merrell for the drug thalidomide (under the tradename Kevadon) as a tranquilizer and painkiller with specific indications to prescribe the drug to pregnant women for morning sickness. Even though it had already been approved in Canada and more than 20 European and African countries,[8] she withheld approval for the drug and requested further studies.[3] Despite pressure from thalidomide's manufacturer, Kelsey persisted in requesting additional information to explain an English study that documented peripheral neuritis,[9] a nervous system side effect.[4] She also requested data showing the drug was not harmful to the fetus.[9]

Kelsey's insistence that the drug should be fully tested prior to approval was vindicated when the births of deformed infants in Europe were linked to thalidomide ingestion by their mothers during pregnancy.[10] Researchers discovered that the thalidomide crossed the placental barrier and caused serious birth defects.[7] She was hailed on the front page of The Washington Post as a heroine[11] for averting a similar tragedy in the U.S.[12] Morton Mintz, author of The Washington Post article, said "[Kelsey] prevented… the birth of hundreds or indeed thousands of armless and legless children."[11] Kelsey insisted that her assistants, Oyam Jiro and Lee Geismar, as well as her FDA superiors who backed her strong stance, deserved credit as well. The narrative of Kelsey's persistence, however, was used to help pass rigorous drug approval regulation in 1962.[1]

Yeah, hero’s do exist. This drug was approved in Germany (Contergan) and used to treat morning thickness one could see quite a few kids a few years above my age with deformations called “Contergan kinder” back then.

But to Gregnals point, there is definitely regulation for the regulations sake when they let you go through hoops just to build a garden shack in your backyard that nobody else sees in some towns and cities.

[cubsfan]

Talk about a coup...........

                                   Trump fires the Secretary of Defence, and it is rumored that the head of the CIA and FBI are next.

Right or Left you all better be concerned. America is ripe for the picking.

Dont worry, I am sure there is no shortage of career bureaucrats at those agencies waiting to step in.

And the point of all of this is?

^ Hey, they serve at the pleasure of the President. He is the Chief Executive of the Executive Branch.
IF they demonstrated disloyalty or are incompetent - it's always useful to let everyone know who the boss is.
Why should Trump show THEM loyalty if he feels he is being subordinated?

Now some underling gets a shot at the title. Like Gregmal says: there is no shortage of career bureaucrats in Washington to choose from.

Sending a message is always valuable. Cleaning house would be a beautiful thing at this point. Let's hope he does it to the FBI which is
#1 on the corruption list.

[LC]

Exactly why Stanislav Petrov should’ve been hung from the gallows as a disloyal, mutinous traitor to his homeland.

[cubsfan]

Exactly why Stanislav Petrov should’ve been hung from the gallows as a disloyal, mutinous traitor to his homeland.

I knew, somehow, the Russians were involved!