Author Topic: Elizabeth plummets in polls  (Read 4893 times)

LC

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2020, 02:29:05 PM »
I disagree on both items:

-I think the student loan situation does have the potential to be a serious problem (https://hbr.org/2019/09/what-will-it-take-to-solve-the-student-loan-crisis)

-Whether people are choosing to "tie themselves to the tracks" or not is one thing. But you cannot disagree that a large portion of certain demographic cohorts are "on the tracks" regardless of choice.

But ultimately I don't like the argument that was used: "I managed to avoid this problem, so it's unfair to those like me if we solve it!"
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 02:30:54 PM by LC »
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Castanza

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2020, 03:21:42 PM »
I disagree on both items:

-I think the student loan situation does have the potential to be a serious problem (https://hbr.org/2019/09/what-will-it-take-to-solve-the-student-loan-crisis)

-Whether people are choosing to "tie themselves to the tracks" or not is one thing. But you cannot disagree that a large portion of certain demographic cohorts are "on the tracks" regardless of choice.

But ultimately I don't like the argument that was used: "I managed to avoid this problem, so it's unfair to those like me if we solve it!"

You don’t “manage” to avoid the problem. Student loans and college are not life requirements. It’s a conscious choice and decision to take them out. Just like it’s a conscious decision to buy a house buy a car etc. I have no problem with finding a solution (get govt out of lending). But the idea that nobody should feel any pain for a poor financial decision (whether misguided or not) is well ridiculous. Consequences are what help society choose the best path forward in the future.

This is like me getting a DUI and then having the judge rule everyone in my family serve one month prison time until it covers my full sentence. That way nobody (specifically me) has to deal with consequences.
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cubsfan

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2020, 03:48:56 PM »
It does suck that these loans can't eventually be discharged in bankruptcy. To saddle people forever, just because they are student loans, and these young
people were dumb does not seem fair.

Castanza

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2020, 03:54:37 PM »
It does suck that these loans can't eventually be discharged in bankruptcy. To saddle people forever, just because they are student loans, and these young
people were dumb does not seem fair.

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be efforts to help ease the pain. I’m saying it shouldn’t come on the dime of those who are fiscally responsible or those who have paid off their loans etc.
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cubsfan

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2020, 03:58:40 PM »
It does suck that these loans can't eventually be discharged in bankruptcy. To saddle people forever, just because they are student loans, and these young
people were dumb does not seem fair.

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be efforts to help ease the pain. I’m saying it shouldn’t come on the dime of those who are fiscally responsible or those who have paid off their loans etc.

I know, and agree - this is a tough problem. And the schools that pushed these worthless expensive degrees should have the hammer brought down on them. Bankruptcy creates a lot of pain, and perhaps after some LONG time, they should be allowed to. Maybe the schools should be required to forgive a portion as well for selling young people down the river.

Any degree that has the word "studies" at the end of it should be banned. Schools ought to get back to more traditional courses.

stahleyp

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2020, 05:14:54 PM »
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I went to a community college and then transferred to a 4 year school. I even went to a lower level school because I wanted to get out without any loans. I lived at home and didn't take wild vacations. So the folks that lived it up get it all for free while I busted it? Thanks Senator Warren!
Well, as we have only so much time left to poke each other's ribs here in the politics section, I'll just say that your post reminds me of the good old Trolly Problem, slightly modified:



Hopefully you're also okay bailing out folks who made poor/risky/dumb investment decisions or spent their money for beer, traveling, etc. rather than saving for retirement, too. ;)

Paul

LC

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2020, 05:26:25 PM »
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Hopefully you're also okay bailing out folks who made poor/risky/dumb investment decisions
Yes I think the first few rounds of QE were absolutely warranted.
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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Gregmal

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2020, 05:37:44 PM »
See this is kind of the issue. There is this misconception that its largely hard working, diligent, lower income kids who go to college and are left holding thousands in debt and a worthless degree. But this is hardly the case at all. Its the glut of entitled millennials studying completely bogus things that have no practical real world application other than the lucky guy or gal who gets face time on the documentaries about saving the elephants or cleaning up the oceans. The sense of entitlement, as well as the desire to "experience" college, traveling, and socializing, all play as big a part in the equation as the shitty and dishonest education system. A lot of it is a choice.

I attended college with the intention of going to law school. I researched the top majors of law school entrants and chose to double major in History and English. I killed the LSATs. Then the financial crisis happened. I thought finance was interesting and for shits put off law school and got myself into a job without having any of the "you're supposed to go to school for this if you want to do finance" qualifications. And this was in 2010 when finance was dead and no one else was hiring. I just worked hard and started at the bottom using common sense. So many of these folks, they are either stupid, or not trying hard enough.

LC

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2020, 06:50:01 PM »
Quote
There is this misconception that its largely hard working, diligent, lower income kids who go to college and are left holding thousands in debt and a worthless degree. But this is hardly the case at all. Its the glut of entitled millennials studying completely bogus things that have no practical real world application other than the lucky guy or gal who gets face time on the documentaries about saving the elephants or cleaning up the oceans

Do you have any reference for this? To my knowledge there is no data which compiles total outstanding debt per degree or even per profession.
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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ERICOPOLY

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2020, 06:54:17 PM »
If the government adopts a policy of paying off all college debt, I would think it would lead to a change of habits.  For example, people won't save for college and won't work their way through college.  It may also lead to a drying up of private dollars for scholarships as private donors no longer believe it is helping anyone to provide tuition assistance.