Author Topic: Elizabeth plummets in polls  (Read 4901 times)

Gregmal

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2020, 07:03:12 PM »
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There is this misconception that its largely hard working, diligent, lower income kids who go to college and are left holding thousands in debt and a worthless degree. But this is hardly the case at all. Its the glut of entitled millennials studying completely bogus things that have no practical real world application other than the lucky guy or gal who gets face time on the documentaries about saving the elephants or cleaning up the oceans

Do you have any reference for this? To my knowledge there is no data which compiles total outstanding debt per degree or even per profession.

Nothing that Ive gone out of my way to find, but something that if I could collect $5 for every story with the same tale Ive heard, I could pay off the student loans myself.

Stuff like this

https://www.reddit.com/r/StudentLoans/comments/7ic61c/i_messed_up_170k_in_loan_for_a_useless_grad/

There are no shortage of well intended, starry eyed, but naive as fuck kids riding the wave of various social trends, thinking that this is the future without realizing a lot of it is bullshit. The problem isn't entirely costs. What has created the problem, the astounding rise in tuition rates, and the rest of this bubble, is basically unlimited government guaranteed borrowing. The comparisons to the housing bubble arent off.



LC

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2020, 07:10:20 PM »
If the government adopts a policy of paying off all college debt, I would think it would lead to a change of habits.  For example, people won't save for college and won't work their way through college.  It may also lead to a drying up of private dollars for scholarships as private donors no longer believe it is helping anyone to provide tuition assistance.
Does this type of behavior exist in countries where the government does heavily subsidize education costs? I am not sure that it does.

To Greg's point I agree: this is essentially created by the government guaranteeing something they have no business guaranteeing. We can debate about solutions but, again, the reasoning behind the "boomer trolly problem" doesn't seem valid to me.
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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RuleNumberOne

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2020, 07:33:45 PM »
80-90% of the university payroll is useless. Administrators paying themselves more and more every year.

These are monopolies just like hospitals. Having the taxpayers pay them just means the bill increases by leaps and bounds every year.

I think we should just shut down the majors that don't have commercial applications.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 07:40:58 PM by RuleNumberOne »

Viking

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2020, 09:21:33 PM »
Here in Canada it costs about CAN $22-$24,000 per year to do a year of university (for a full time student). This is all in (includes tuition, books, rent, food, entertainment/beer, cell, transit etc). If you live at home cost for tuition and books is about $8,000 per year. If you go to a local college (most areas have a local college close to their home) the cost drops to about $7,000 per year (tuition and books). Bottom line, post secondary education here in Canada is more accessible than it has ever been with lots of great options that are reasonable priced (for what you get).

There is a pretty good national student loan program in place where you can receive up to $14,000 per year; the amount you can get is dependent on how much the students earns in the prior year, the parents earnings the prior year and the parents assets (not including real estate, RRSP, RESP). The application process is pretty simple (takes a couple of hours). If you are from a low income home you can receive a $3,000 per year grant which you do not have to pay back. You pay no interest on your student loan until 6 months after you graduate (Federal government may extend this to 2 years).

My daughter attends University of BC (Vancouver); on her floor in residence last year was lots of international students, including a few from the US who had one Canadian parent. They chose to do their education in Canada because of the much lower cost and good overall quality.

The big problem we have is international students pay much higher tuition fees. So over the years the universities have been taking growing numbers of international students because of the much higher revenue stream. When they started down this road the grade point required was similar. My understanding is that over time, as they take more international and fewer Canadian kids (percentage wise), the grade point requirement for Canadian kids to get into a big University like UBC is now higher than what an international student requires to get in. This would be ok if universities here were private; but they are considered public institutions. If people better understood this issue here in BC we would likely have lots of very angry voters :-)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 09:23:39 PM by Viking »

stahleyp

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2020, 03:26:42 AM »
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Hopefully you're also okay bailing out folks who made poor/risky/dumb investment decisions
Yes I think the first few rounds of QE were absolutely warranted.

Oh, I'm not talking about QE. I'm talking about the guy who bets it big on bitcoin (at $20,000) and lost his retirement. Or the one who decides to have a new car every couple years and cashes out his 401k to do it.

Just because other folks had terrible retirements (killed on the tracks) doesn't mean these folks should too!
Paul

Gregmal

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LC

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2020, 07:01:01 AM »
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I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of school. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any student loans. Am I going to get my money back?

When later asked about curing cancer:

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I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of <the hospital>. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any <cancer>. Am I going to get my money back?

"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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RuleNumberOne

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2020, 07:52:44 AM »
If people really want a diploma in a useless major, i can print one for $5. If you want it framed, it will cost another $10.

90% of the payroll of universities is completely useless (unionized of course). I can't think of a more useless blood-sucking area of the "economy".

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I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of school. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any student loans. Am I going to get my money back?

When later asked about curing cancer:

Quote
I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of <the hospital>. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any <cancer>. Am I going to get my money back?

stahleyp

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2020, 08:04:56 AM »
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I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of school. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any student loans. Am I going to get my money back?

When later asked about curing cancer:

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I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of <the hospital>. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any <cancer>. Am I going to get my money back?

I really don't understand your logic here.

How many people want cancer and get it voluntarily?

Why are you associating personal responsibility (paying back what you agreed to) with death?
Paul

LC

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2020, 08:48:24 AM »
RNO, I'm not saying education isn't filled with inefficiencies. In fact I don't think anyone is claiming that.

As I've said, I simply do not agree with the argument of "well I personally was able to avoid this massive social problem, so it's unfair to me if we commit shared resources to address it".

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I really don't understand your logic here.

How many people want cancer and get it voluntarily?

Why are you associating personal responsibility (paying back what you agreed to) with death?
Paul I'm simply extending your argument to show why I disagree with it. It doesn't have to be illness or death, it can be something like the majority of a financial community buying RMBS in 2007 and subsequently receiving TARP funds. But apparently that analogy didn't suit you although you never gave a logical explanation why, so I tried again.
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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