Author Topic: Elizabeth plummets in polls  (Read 4894 times)

stahleyp

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2020, 09:31:21 AM »
RNO, I'm not saying education isn't filled with inefficiencies. In fact I don't think anyone is claiming that.

As I've said, I simply do not agree with the argument of "well I personally was able to avoid this massive social problem, so it's unfair to me if we commit shared resources to address it".

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I really don't understand your logic here.

How many people want cancer and get it voluntarily?

Why are you associating personal responsibility (paying back what you agreed to) with death?
Paul I'm simply extending your argument to show why I disagree with it. It doesn't have to be illness or death, it can be something like the majority of a financial community buying RMBS in 2007 and subsequently receiving TARP funds. But apparently that analogy didn't suit you although you never gave a logical explanation why, so I tried again.

I'm against the TARP funds too. Even if that meant another Great Depression. ;)
Paul


ERICOPOLY

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2020, 09:33:11 AM »
If people really want a diploma in a useless major, i can print one for $5. If you want it framed, it will cost another $10.

90% of the payroll of universities is completely useless (unionized of course). I can't think of a more useless blood-sucking area of the "economy".

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“I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of school. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any student loans. Am I going to get my money back?”

When later asked about curing cancer:

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“I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of <the hospital>. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any <cancer>. Am I going to get my money back?”


The entirety of the cosmetics sector is purely useless, by definition it is ‘cosmetic’.

Look around and so much is ‘useless’.

Anyway, why not spend your college savings on a trip to Europe and then finance your education as long as Elizabeth is ordering it to be paid off by taxpayers?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 09:35:47 AM by ERICOPOLY »

RuleNumberOne

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2020, 09:39:26 AM »
If people pay for it with their own hard-earned money, they are free to buy whatever they want.

But they want me to pay for strangers majoring in partying for $200k over four years. At the end of the four years the university gives them a diploma that would cost $15 to print and frame.

We have a lot of unionized university workers and useless majors with no commercial applications.

If people really want a diploma in a useless major, i can print one for $5. If you want it framed, it will cost another $10.

90% of the payroll of universities is completely useless (unionized of course). I can't think of a more useless blood-sucking area of the "economy".

Quote
“I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of school. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any student loans. Am I going to get my money back?”

When later asked about curing cancer:

Quote
“I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of <the hospital>. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any <cancer>. Am I going to get my money back?”


The entirety of the cosmetics sector is purely useless, by definition it is ‘cosmetic’.

Look around and so much is ‘useless’.  What qualifies as useful in a department store?

ERICOPOLY

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2020, 10:00:29 AM »
If people pay for it with their own hard-earned money, they are free to buy whatever they want.

But they want me to pay for strangers majoring in partying for $200k over four years. At the end of the four years the university gives them a diploma that would cost $15 to print and frame.

We have a lot of unionized university workers and useless majors with no commercial applications.

If people really want a diploma in a useless major, i can print one for $5. If you want it framed, it will cost another $10.

90% of the payroll of universities is completely useless (unionized of course). I can't think of a more useless blood-sucking area of the "economy".

Quote
“I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of school. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any student loans. Am I going to get my money back?”

When later asked about curing cancer:

Quote
“I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of <the hospital>. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any <cancer>. Am I going to get my money back?”


The entirety of the cosmetics sector is purely useless, by definition it is ‘cosmetic’.

Look around and so much is ‘useless’.  What qualifies as useful in a department store?

I admit I did a poor job of explaining...

What do the "useful" majors create with their degrees? 

Viagra and cosmetics?  Hedge fund manager?

It's hard to find truly useful things.  Is a marketing degree useful?  Advertising?  What is useful and how do you target the degrees that serve it without inadvertently funding physics majors to be hedge fund traders or chemists to make cosmetics?

LC

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2020, 10:03:10 AM »

I'm against the TARP funds too. Even if that meant another Great Depression. ;)
I think we've got enough perspective behind us to conclude that the Fed's actions between 2009-2014 (thereabouts) were successful in stabilizing the US economy. If you think a Great Depression in 2009 would have been preferable to the past 10 years of recovery, I don't know what to say.

And I won't say the student loan bubble is at the same magnitude as the 2008 crisis, but I would argue it has severely impeded the progress of an entire generation.
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DTEJD1997

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2020, 10:15:12 AM »
See this is kind of the issue. There is this misconception that its largely hard working, diligent, lower income kids who go to college and are left holding thousands in debt and a worthless degree. But this is hardly the case at all. Its the glut of entitled millennials studying completely bogus things that have no practical real world application other than the lucky guy or gal who gets face time on the documentaries about saving the elephants or cleaning up the oceans. The sense of entitlement, as well as the desire to "experience" college, traveling, and socializing, all play as big a part in the equation as the shitty and dishonest education system. A lot of it is a choice.

I attended college with the intention of going to law school. I researched the top majors of law school entrants and chose to double major in History and English. I killed the LSATs. Then the financial crisis happened. I thought finance was interesting and for shits put off law school and got myself into a job without having any of the "you're supposed to go to school for this if you want to do finance" qualifications. And this was in 2010 when finance was dead and no one else was hiring. I just worked hard and started at the bottom using common sense. So many of these folks, they are either stupid, or not trying hard enough.

Make no mistake, there are plenty of idiots and people who should have known better OR lazy people who took out too many student loans.

There are ALSO a lot of people who legitimately did not know any better, OR who were actually deceived by the skools into taking out loans.  I personally know some who were.

You also have (had?) the problem of high schools pushing EVERYBODY into college.  When I went to high school, there simply was no other realistic option other than the military.  There were no shop classes, there were no apprenticeships, we were all told that the trades and manufacturing were for people who could not hack it and you were a stupid loser if you didn't go to college.  This was coming from parents, peers, guidance counselors.  That was also a while ago, when college was a LOT less expensive than it is now.

Why should institutions of higher learning have no skin in the game?  They get paid up front regardless of how well their graduates do.

One of the results of all the lawsuits against the law skools was that prospective students were found to be "sophisticated consumers" by the courts and they should have known that the published figures from the skools were fraudulent.  Thus, no relief.

Financial planners, CPA's, engineers, car dealers, computer sellers, department stores can't get away with stuff like that but skools can?

it is also not limited to just law skools.  It has started to bleed over into other professions.  I know a TON of young people who got little or no benefit from their educations.

Let graduates go bankrupt after 5 years.  The students can then give up their diplomas, create a database of such, prevent them from working in the field in which they studied/licensed, and then charge back the skool for it.

End result is that there are some goofs that majored in underwater basket weaving, but there are also plenty of students/graduates who "did everything right" and are tremendously disadvantaged for such.


stahleyp

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2020, 10:19:35 AM »

I'm against the TARP funds too. Even if that meant another Great Depression. ;)
I think we've got enough perspective behind us to conclude that the Fed's actions between 2009-2014 (thereabouts) were successful in stabilizing the US economy. If you think a Great Depression in 2009 would have been preferable to the past 10 years of recovery, I don't know what to say.

And I won't say the student loan bubble is at the same magnitude as the 2008 crisis, but I would argue it has severely impeded the progress of an entire generation.

I don't think we would have a loon like Trump for one. I also don't think the country would be nearly as divided as it is currently.     

Paul

stahleyp

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Re: Elizabeth plummets in polls
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2020, 10:22:02 AM »
If people really want a diploma in a useless major, i can print one for $5. If you want it framed, it will cost another $10.

90% of the payroll of universities is completely useless (unionized of course). I can't think of a more useless blood-sucking area of the "economy".

Quote
“I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of school. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any student loans. Am I going to get my money back?”

When later asked about curing cancer:

Quote
“I just wanted to ask one question. My daughter is getting out of <the hospital>. I've saved all my money. She doesn't have any <cancer>. Am I going to get my money back?”


The entirety of the cosmetics sector is purely useless, by definition it is ‘cosmetic’.

Look around and so much is ‘useless’.

Anyway, why not spend your college savings on a trip to Europe and then finance your education as long as Elizabeth is ordering it to be paid off by taxpayers?

Even better, stay in the dorms indefinitely. Have taxpayers pay for it and just live it up. It'll be like college never ends. Parrrrtyyyyy!
Paul