Author Topic: George Floyd  (Read 20296 times)

valueinvestor

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George Floyd
« on: June 03, 2020, 05:42:21 AM »
I'm not going to pretend that this ties into value investing and finance, but I think it's important to be said - I keep my politics private for most of my life, and I feel like a hypocrite writing about this now, when this happened countless times and even sick as an entrepreneur and investor growing the value of my business and portfolio's value amidst such a humanitarian crisis. However, I feel as if it's my duty because today's legislation does not seem to be voted by the ballot, but rather the dollar. Which is why, I'll accumulate and deplete that dollar as much as I can, so I can exert my views and encourage everyone to do the same, so they can push their views, so we can end up with a world view that's diverse. If you think accumulating capital shouldn't be one's duty, well you're right and wrong. Since you're certainly also have a luxury that many others and I cannot afford. In a just world I would've been a physicist, but in this world I have people that I know and don't know, who I do not want to go through what I went through especially before social media.

With Myanmar, Amy Cooper, Ahmad Albury, Syria, General Abuse against Minorities and Women, and I hate to say this but the infinite injustices this world seems to carry today - it kills me. Even more, the ignorance of many people with these issues, and the inherent ignorance of those who are aware because they are being hidden between the lines... specifically the whole issue when you don't follow the news, you're uninformed, and when you follow the news, you're misinformed.

However with George Floyd, the video of a cop calmly taking away a man's life on video, where he's probably fully aware that he's being recorded and not caring because he had 17 internal affairs investigations - says it all. When Amy Cooper called the police because she knew by the time they figured out who's right and who's wrong, the police would most likely hurt him in someway because he's black makes makes me angry because I've seen it so many times. By the way, this anger that I feel in my bones is not new, but something many others and I had for almost our entire lives. Since everyone knew this issue is true, but mostly pretended that it was not a large enough issue or justified it by saying it's better than it was 100 years ago. F*ck - it's better now? Sorry, I should keep quiet about the millions, and perhaps billions that face injustice today. As a human being, I do not understand how even if the number goes down to one person a year, it's cause to celebrate.

Before it TL;DR, I'll end it with this - don't do what I did where I shared my views only when great injustices occurred, but rather use your views and power to educate those who are unaware and don't know why racism and/or any form of discrimination should be tolerated. Since let's face - many tolerate discrimination even though they do not agree with it because they want to keep that customer, supplier, be in the good graces of that professor, boss, or anyone with authority, because it affects their future - and I'm not blaming them and very sympathetic but as long-term oriented individuals - imagine if that's your own partner, children, relative, or any loved one in that predicament. I don't know about you but I rather take the short term hit, so long term the future is brighter, and do my part.

I hope this provides a deep understanding of those who do not understand the public outrage of what people of minority go through everyday, and frankly I've had it with the constant objection that tries to distract many from the real issue - which is "what good comes from looting, rioting or having violent protest?" - again it shows lack of awareness on the issue.

I'm NOT encouraging violence, in fact I CONDEMN it - but ask yourself this - "what good comes from not looting, rioting or having violent protest, especially being marginalized by society for so long like George Floyd and countless others?"

I hope this post is an eye-opener and does some good, and if it doesn't - doesn't matter - because I already was trying more than most, and this all I have more to offer. Hopefully in my lifetime, these issues will be eliminated in my lifetime such as the issues of slavery, at the very least, I'm going to try.

EDIT: If you have a different pov, please do not be afraid to share - I want us to have a discussion. I'm not going to attack you - I will make an effort to understand your point, and hopefully arrive to a mutual agreement.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 05:50:48 AM by valueinvestor »


LC

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Re: George Floyd
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2020, 06:16:27 PM »
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3095217

Growing controversy surrounds the impact of labor unions on law enforcement behavior. Critics argue that unions impede organizational reform and insulate officers from discipline for misconduct. Yet collective bargaining tends to increase wages, which could improve officer behavior. We provide quasi-experimental empirical evidence on the effects of collective bargaining rights on violent incidents of misconduct. Our empirical strategy exploits a 2003 Florida Supreme Court decision (Williams), which conferred collective bargaining rights on sheriffs’ deputies, resulting in a substantial increase in unionization among these officers. Using a Florida state administrative database of “moral character” violations reported by local agencies between 1996 and 2015, we implement a difference-in-difference approach in which police departments (which were unaffected by Williams) serve as a control group for sheriffs’ offices (SOs). Our estimates imply that collective bargaining rights led to a substantial increase in violent incidents of misconduct among SOs, relative to police departments. The effect of collective bargaining rights is concentrated among SOs that subsequently adopted collective bargaining agreements, and the timing of the adoption of these agreements is associated with increases in violent misconduct. There is also some evidence consistent with a “bargaining in the shadow” effect among SOs that did not unionize.

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LongHaul

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Re: George Floyd
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2020, 08:10:49 AM »
This was a great quote by RFK when MLK was killed.

Acknowledging the audience's emotions, Kennedy referred to his own grief at the murder of Martin Luther King and, quoting a passage from the play Agamemnon (in translation), said: "My favorite poet was Aeschylus. And he once wrote: 'Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God.' What we need in the United States is not division; what we need in the United States is not hatred; what we need in the United States is not violence and lawlessness; but is love and wisdom, and compassion toward one another, and a feeling of justice toward those who still suffer within our country, whether they be white or whether they be black ... Let us dedicate ourselves to what the Greeks wrote so many years ago: to tame the savageness of man and make gentle the life of this world." The quotation from Aeschylus was later inscribed on a memorial at the gravesite of Robert Kennedy following his own assassination.[48][better source needed]

The actual speech is on youtube.

I liked your post.  It is hard not to get emotional about some great injustices over time if you care about human lives and justice. 

Think about the Injustices of Genocides - Armenian, Jewish, Rwanda, etc.  Then there was Stalin killing ~20 million people in Russia or Mao's stupid policies.  Or today in North Korea.  We are violent species - it is in our DNA.  But that is what helped humans survive - being pugnacious.    I am not making excuses for injustices - just citing a reality of man.

The great news is that things are very slowly getting better - decade by decade.  Not perfect - they never will be.  But there are many less injustices today then 200+ years ago. 

I don't have many answers - but I think it is everyone's moral duty to try to see the truth and reality as it is.

I like the old Stoic virtues - Wisdom, Temperance, Justice and Courage







DTEJD1997

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Re: George Floyd
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2020, 08:52:49 AM »
hey all:

I'm refraining from posting a lot of stuff these days...

Here in Detroit, we have a long history of riots.

When the riots hit in 1967, it damaged/destroyed a lot of the city.  In fact, there are huge swaths of the city that NEVER came back.  You can still see damage that was done in 1967.  Those riots caused/started untold billions and billions in damage.  It ruined/damaged millions of lives.  It's effects go across generations.

I wasn't alive when the last big riot happened, but I grew up hearing stories of from my elders.  It had a terrible effect on everybody who went through it, rich, poor, white, black, everybody.  What was gained?  What was lost?

While the physical damage was tremendous, the worst thing was the mental/social damage that took place.  Literally millions of people left the city of Detroit, never to come back.  Those people took their knowledge, capital, business with them when they left. 

For those who don't think rioting is all that bad, can you imagine being a shop owner who loses everything they've worked for in one night?  Insurance typically does not pay out for riots/civil disturbance.  You lose everything.  Do you think that shop owner is going to be sympathetic to BLM or police brutality, or minority interests?

Do you think that shop owner is going to put their capital at risk after the riots subside?  Are they going to re-open and put their labor and capital at risk in that community?

What about respect for the rule of law? 

What about the possibility for another Covid-19 outbreak?  Here in Michigan, they media went absolutely bezerk when "right wing" protestors showed up in Lansing.  They were going to undo the weeks of lock down, the virus was going to spread.  Now there are "left wing" protestors and not a peep about Covid-19?  Why is that?  Is the virus "woke"?  It only spreads at "right wing" protests?  Why isn't the media concerned about that?

I hope other cities don't have to go through what Detroit went through.

jamesmadison

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Re: George Floyd
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2020, 09:03:30 AM »
The OP asked for another perspective, so here it is with some actual facts and statistics per the WSJ.  Do with them what you may:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1

The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.


jamesmadison

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Re: George Floyd
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2020, 09:14:33 AM »

I'm NOT encouraging violence, in fact I CONDEMN it - but ask yourself this - "what good comes from not looting, rioting or having violent protest, especially being marginalized by society for so long like George Floyd and countless others?"


This reminds me of the advice I was given that when you see someone say something with a "but" in the middle, ignore everything that comes before the "but".  And that I find truly offensive.  There is NO justification for the looting and violence that's occurred.  None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.  Beyond being incredibly damaging to the cause, it fundamentally frays society in incalculable ways.  Making any excuse to "burn it all down" is not acceptable.

Cigarbutt

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Re: George Floyd
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2020, 09:45:28 AM »
hey all:
...
I hope other cities don't have to go through what Detroit went through.
Why did Detroit go through what Detroit went through?
Any insights in proximate causes?
Disclosure: A long time ago, i thought that the Kerner Commission Report contained a lot of ingredients to improve the secret sauce.
I would offer the opinion that what is unfolding is not inevitable but it may require to take the perspective of a kid growing up in a poor and segregated community.

Viking

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Re: George Floyd
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2020, 11:51:21 AM »
Great article on the slow education of Drew Brees: his initial comment, the backlash and then his response. I think this is what is called a ‘teachable moment’ for Brees. Perhaps for others too :-)

Drew Brees Still Hasn't Learned
- https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/06/04/drew-brees-american-flag-kneeling-comments-colin-kaepernick

...Four years, and Brees apparently learned nothing. That is why he faced minimal backlash four years ago and got excoriated this week. He still claimed they are being “disrespectful” instead of understanding why they feel disrespected.

To his credit, Brees apologized Thursday: “I made comments that were insensitive and completely missed the mark on the issues we are facing right now as a country,” he wrote on Instagram. “They lacked awareness and any type of compassion or empathy.” Now Brees, one of the smartest quarterbacks in the league, can examine why he said what he did this week.

If Brees had listened with an open mind for the last four years, he would have seen that his American experience is not everyone’s. He would have realized that making anthem protests about respect for the military is just a scaled-down, philosophical version of using troops to clear out peaceful protesters. It is another way to tell people to shut up and admire the USA.

You can’t tell a group of historically oppressed people that you understand how they feel, but they have to say it on your terms. That means you don’t really understand. It means you don’t care enough. Why should Black Americans have to pause and salute Drew Brees’s grandfathers before talking about how their own relatives have been treated? Why is his family’s history more important than theirs?

Drew Brees doesn’t get to call that play. He did not seem to realize how condescending and offensive it is for a white person to tell Black people, “Hey, let’s all stand up and show unity here.”

Parsad

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Re: George Floyd
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2020, 04:25:12 PM »
I'll play devil's advocate, even though you guys know that I'm a fiscal conservative but a rabid social liberal!  I'll lay out some points as Gregmal and Cubsfan have a few more days of COBF quarantine.

- How long does it take until reparations are enough?  My own great-great-great grandparents were indentured labourers brought over from India...pretty much with no choice!
- I mean you now have an America which already had a black president. 
- 50 years ago, would anyone have listened to Oprah the way that they do today? 
- Other than a few southern counties, mixed marriages are completely acceptable and legal. 
- The U.S. is the land of opportunity, what is stopping people from pulling themselves out of poverty?  Don't most immigrant populations feel enormous racism or bigotry when they get here?  Even the Irish were considered a repulsive group by native born Americans before the civil war.  What about the Italian immigrants who lived in ghettos in New York after the civil war.
- Have reparations ever changed the long-term outlook or success of oppressed minorities?
- I can understand making an initial statement with rioting and looting, but really, do we believe the people looting these days are actual protestors?
- Malcolm X was once asked by a woman, "What can I do to help your cause?"  His response was "Nothing!"  Do we really believe anything will change?  We've barely made a dent in gun laws in the U.S., do we really think we can talk and march away racism or police brutality?
- George Floyd, Ahmed Aubrey, etc are the few exceptions, but usually the police have to deal with violent criminals and force is necessary.  Just like a white person hasn't walked in a black person's shoes, very few people have walked in a police officer's shoes.  Every day, their lives are at risk...how can they protect themselves without using force or corrective techniques in an adrenalin-filled fight with a culprit?

Cheers!  I'm sure I'll come up with more reasons as you guys answer these questions.
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Spekulatius

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Re: George Floyd
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2020, 04:56:49 PM »
Anyone concerned that the 3 cops involved in the alleged murder of George Floyd, don’t get a fair trial? Because I am. Again, I look at this from a perspective of looking at safety incidence that I am used to look at in an industrial setting. While there often is an Component of individual fault, the focus in those of investigations is always on the process that allows these “accidents” to happen to begin with and try to prevent them in the future.

Going after individuals is counterproductive in most cases and leads to cover ups. This of course is a different setting , but the fact alone that exactly the same grip was used in the same department 44 times lets me believe that looking at this from an safety incident perspective may be productive and there is likely an institutional component of blame here that should be investigated.
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