Author Topic: Larry Summers says Elizabeth's economics advisers are con artists  (Read 3357 times)

LC

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Re: Larry Summers says Elizabeth's economics advisers are con artists
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2019, 09:54:49 AM »
Well I don't know much about Warren or her policies other than you call her a Liar, but I mean I could also call you a Liar for fear-mongering posts about communist-era income equality, so I guess that doesn't mean much.

What I do know is there are multiple laws and policies which exacerbate income inequality, that to me seem unfair both as written and as executed. And I think corrections to our effective tax regime and our enforcement regime would do a lot of economic good for this country.
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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Gregmal

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Re: Larry Summers says Elizabeth's economics advisers are con artists
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2019, 09:55:31 AM »
Poverty in a lot of cases is a choice. Poverty in America is also pretty damn good compared to poverty in other parts of the words. Wealth inequality is kind of an issue, but not nearly as big of one as the politicians make it out to be. They just know its divisive and an easy way to win overt voters without losing many votes(IE the only votes they'll lose are billionaires, and even still, many are down the ballot democrats regardless).

LC

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Re: Larry Summers says Elizabeth's economics advisers are con artists
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2019, 09:59:30 AM »
Castanza, the anecdotes are all well and good but the overall data is pretty clear: The national trend has been an increase in the rate of change in economic inequality and it is solidifying economic immobility.
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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Castanza

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Re: Larry Summers says Elizabeth's economics advisers are con artists
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2019, 10:34:03 AM »
Castanza, the anecdotes are all well and good but the overall data is pretty clear: The national trend has been an increase in the rate of change in economic inequality and it is solidifying economic immobility.

Data doesn't give us causality.

Ross812

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Re: Larry Summers says Elizabeth's economics advisers are con artists
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2019, 10:57:33 AM »
I hear this all the time:

Poverty in a lot of cases is a choice. Poverty in America is also pretty damn good compared to poverty in other parts of the words. Wealth inequality is kind of an issue, but not nearly as big of one as the politicians make it out to be. They just know its divisive and an easy way to win overt voters without losing many votes(IE the only votes they'll lose are billionaires, and even still, many are down the ballot democrats regardless).

Next time you meet someone on the poverty line ask them how many packs of cigarettes they smoke a day, how many lottery tickets they buy and how much they spend on beer.

Half a pack a day would be about $4, say 1 $10 lottery ticket a week and one 6-pack of natural light beer a week $5. = 2k a year and 6% of income (assuming 30k).

Not saying this is true of everyone nor am I saying these people have zero excuses and they all should be millionaires upon retirement. Plenty of people are in crap situations with a very slim chance of getting out. But 2k compounded at 6% for 30 years is probably about 350k (its 167k by the way, but why do math when proving a point?). Add in their SS, possibly 401k with match and they would have a sizable chunk for retirement. A bit anecdotal but I worked at a veneer plant/ lumber yard one summer. Everyone would take 2-3 smoke breaks a day talked about lotto and how they couldn't wait to get off and drink or head to the local watering hole. Not saying I blame them as that job was miserable, but I'd imagine that trend exists among many low income factory type jobs.

How poor do you want people to look before you consider it a problem?

Many of those people pulling down 30k per year can drive a $20k car ($300/month), have a new iPhone 10 ($40/month), live in a decent place in the Midwest or South ($900/month), a new 65-inch TV every 3 years ($30/month) and smoke and play the lottery ($160/month). The problem is these people have no savings and no sick time which leads to repossessions of all those financed luxuries, credit card debt, payday loans, etc.     

You and I can afford to buy those things outright without the 5-15% interest on those payment plans and don't worry about having a car repossessed if we get sick for a month. When a financial shock happens we throw the bonus back in the emergency fund and go on with life. They are paying 15%+ interest for years.   

I agree people could be making better financial decisions and should be living within their means, but extending yourself and keeping up with the Jones' is part of the culture at every income bracket perpetuated by easy access to credit extended by the class who more or less subists on moving money around.

The consumer credit industry has been set up so those with money can make 10% a year on it and while providing the have nots with the incentive of living like they have money. If there is not enough incentive, don't worry, we have a $200B/yr advertising industry to help it. 

Wealth inequality is increasing:



Thus far, there has not been a successful political solution to the trend. Maybe there isn't a political solution. But thus I think as a country, we are closer to and trending toward  the opposite of:

 
If everyone got paid the same, why work hard to discover new drugs. Work hard all your life to become a scientist, discover a new cure, and then AOC and Katie Hill show up and confiscate everything.

If that is what AOC wants, everybody would want to just smoke a bong and become a grant writer like Katie Hill.


« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 10:59:09 AM by Ross812 »
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Castanza

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Re: Larry Summers says Elizabeth's economics advisers are con artists
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2019, 12:33:45 PM »
Quote
Many of those people pulling down 30k per year can drive a $20k car ($300/month), have a new iPhone 10 ($40/month), live in a decent place in the Midwest or South ($900/month), a new 65-inch TV every 3 years ($30/month) and smoke and play the lottery ($160/month). The problem is these people have no savings and no sick time which leads to repossessions of all those financed luxuries, credit card debt, payday loans, etc.

You've highlighted the crux of the issue. Why do poor choices by individuals become an excuse for legislative measures against those who make good financial decisions. The issue with society is the lack of personal responsibility. Society will take two steps back for every step forward if we continue to make legislation in favor of the irresponsible and against those who are responsible.

I read an article a few years ago where they asked people "What types of things (goods and services) should be afforded to everyone?" Many of them said things like going out to eat once a week, or going to the movies once a month, going on vacation once a year etc. These are luxuries, not rights. I have read on here from many of you in [Frugal habits of millionaires] where some of you mentioned things like having to share a soda with your brothers and sisters when you were young. Re-using tea bags and things like that. Your parents being frugal lead you to become value investors and taught you to not waste money on frivolous things. 

I'm not saying there aren't issues with the system. But this type of thinking is perpetuating dependence, laziness, and irresponsible decisions. 

“You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”

― Adrian Rogers




stahleyp

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Paul

LC

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Re: Larry Summers says Elizabeth's economics advisers are con artists
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2019, 01:45:27 PM »
Castanza, the anecdotes are all well and good but the overall data is pretty clear: The national trend has been an increase in the rate of change in economic inequality and it is solidifying economic immobility.

Data doesn't give us causality.

Who said it did? I don't particularly care what caused us to be in this current situation, the question is whether this situation is sustainable (I'd argue no) and if not, what we should do to fix it.

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You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
Don't tell that to the modern fractional reserve banking system.

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Why do poor choices by individuals become an excuse for legislative measures against those who make good financial decisions. The issue with society is the lack of personal responsibility. Society will take two steps back for every step forward if we continue to make legislation in favor of the irresponsible and against those who are responsible.

While this makes for a good rallying call in the battle of class warfare, the problem is not poor choices from the lower and middle classes.

Poor spending choices do not: create opaque tax loopholes, roll back progressive tax regimes, create an inflated student loan industry, devise life-crushing healthcare costs and debts, defund IRS audits of the wealthiest tax filers, enable industries of regulatory capture, nor lead to downward level shifts of labor participation rates and real wages.

If you want to talk about causality, those factors are legislative and policy driven.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 02:09:02 PM by LC »
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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Cardboard

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Re: Larry Summers says Elizabeth's economics advisers are con artists
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2019, 05:04:52 PM »
Useless to argue with communists.

RuleNumberOne

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Re: Larry Summers says Elizabeth's economics advisers are con artists
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2019, 07:55:28 PM »
Wealth inequality warriors, answer this:

1. Why was the Obamacare tax threshold set to single filers $200k, MFJ $250k.

2. Why has Evasive Elizabeth set her 14.8% tax hike threshold to single filers $250k, MFJ, $400k? That tax hike was just for the $200 per month SS hike.

I get it, the inequality warriors hate billionaires. Why does Lying Liz preach hate-the-billionaires, and then enslave the middle-class in Silicon Valley?