Author Topic: MAGA is a cognitive fallacy  (Read 1854 times)

Read the Footnotes

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MAGA is a cognitive fallacy
« on: October 03, 2019, 06:32:01 AM »
Today I learned that the cognitive fallacy known as MAGA (Make American Great Again) has a name. Declinism is considered a cognitive bias. Declinism is likely associated with another cognitive bias called Rosy Retrospection. I have always known that nostalgia was one of the most powerful marketing and advertising tools used to manipulate people, but it is great to learn a couple of additional named cognitive biases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declinism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection

This reading reminded me that Gibbon in The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire argues that the loss of civic virtue brought about the collapse of the Roman Empire. Civic virtue is based upon putting a premium on the good of the community and it also puts a premium on commercial honesty.

It seems to me that Trump's "me first" business practices and Trump before all else political behavior displayed on his multiple phone calls with foreign leaders is not compatible with civic virtue.

Also, the message that everyone is corrupt seems to be an especially toxic message that would undermine even the expectation of civic virtue and reduce the likelihood that members of the populace would consider civic virtue even being a goal for them individually.

Is it great again?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 06:36:12 AM by Read the Footnotes »


Castanza

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Re: MAGA is a cognitive fallacy
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2019, 07:02:09 AM »
Civic virtue is the citizens involvement in society. Not governments involvement.

Vish_ram

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Re: MAGA is a cognitive fallacy
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2019, 08:06:12 AM »
When your house is on fire, you've to throw things like civic virtue out of the window.

In the book "innovators" Isaacson was talking about how Luddites (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite) reacted to the arrival of power looms. It was an existential threat that destroyed their jobs.

In a way, a chunk of US has become a nation of Luddites. The internet has destroyed lots of service jobs, china has destroyed manufacturing jobs. There is no escape. To add insult to injury, the crony capitalism that engenders booms and busts destroyed savings (housing bubbles etc), rising medical costs have bankrupted families & education beyond the reach of many.

The average American is taking a hit from all sides. This is unprecedented. We always had disruption from technology but never at this break neck internet speed.

I spent 6 months going through 5000+ jobs (bls.gov) and charted how they had risen and fallen. I used this to get a pulse of the nation. Except for these jobs (medical, vets, pharma, technology, managerial etc), the rest have gone through boom and busts or just busts. I can scarcely imagine the carnage. This country is based on winners take all, bare knuckle capitalism with zero safety net. The trickle down system has left middle and bottom with nothing. No growth in median income for last 40 years.

To Trump's credit, he hoodwinked the masses with the right message and empty promises. He cannot fight the invisible enemy of tech, offshoring etc. R's used the time tested guns/religion/abortion and other issues to keep masses mesmerized and yearning for a change. There is a lot of anger left and diabolical politicians will keep duping the masses for a while.
 

Castanza

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Re: MAGA is a cognitive fallacy
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2019, 08:25:58 AM »
When your house is on fire, you've to throw things like civic virtue out of the window.

In the book "innovators" Isaacson was talking about how Luddites (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite) reacted to the arrival of power looms. It was an existential threat that destroyed their jobs.

In a way, a chunk of US has become a nation of Luddites. The internet has destroyed lots of service jobs, china has destroyed manufacturing jobs. There is no escape. To add insult to injury, the crony capitalism that engenders booms and busts destroyed savings (housing bubbles etc), rising medical costs have bankrupted families & education beyond the reach of many.

The average American is taking a hit from all sides. This is unprecedented. We always had disruption from technology but never at this break neck internet speed.

I spent 6 months going through 5000+ jobs (bls.gov) and charted how they had risen and fallen. I used this to get a pulse of the nation. Except for these jobs (medical, vets, pharma, technology, managerial etc), the rest have gone through boom and busts or just busts. I can scarcely imagine the carnage. This country is based on winners take all, bare knuckle capitalism with zero safety net. The trickle down system has left middle and bottom with nothing. No growth in median income for last 40 years.

To Trump's credit, he hoodwinked the masses with the right message and empty promises. He cannot fight the invisible enemy of tech, offshoring etc. R's used the time tested guns/religion/abortion and other issues to keep masses mesmerized and yearning for a change. There is a lot of anger left and diabolical politicians will keep duping the masses for a while.

And what's your solution to this? Both sides are engaged in hoodwinking the masses with empty promises. Politics has become a "who will manage this downward spiral the best."

Vish_ram

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Re: MAGA is a cognitive fallacy
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2019, 08:57:03 AM »
1) Aim for zero trade deficits - on a global level. Issue something like trade credit (TC). The nations that import more from US than what they export will have positive trade credit. Countries like china have to purchase TC, either from US or from other countries. this is like a tariff, but net effect is it helps us narrow trade deficits.
this boosts demand for US made goods

2) Fix healthcare. Make public option free for anyone living below poverty and with other criteria. OR Cover basics for free

3) Introduce Marshalls plan for Americans disrupted by technology. Come up with free trade schools, training, zero tax on small biz with 2 employees or less etc

Read the Footnotes

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Re: MAGA is a cognitive fallacy
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2019, 09:30:57 AM »
And what's your solution to this? Both sides are engaged in hoodwinking the masses with empty promises. Politics has become a "who will manage this downward spiral the best."
I don't think you necessarily addressed your question to me, but I will chime in with a few thoughts. If the problem is both sides hoodwinking the masses then I have a couple of suggestions:

1. Don't allow any leader or party to demoralize you. They want you demoralized so you are more like sheep. Instead, become more educated and engaged. It will make it harder for them.
2. Challenge yourself to increase your civic virtue.
3. Do not engage in pushing a political agenda. Don't mindlessly repeat talking points put out by any political party.
4. Treat all citizens with respect. Here on CoB&F, challenge yourself to never engage in trolling, ad hominem attacks or other counterproductive behaviors. Go a step further and challenge yourself to elevate the level of political discussion here on CoB&F.
5. Humans are somewhat biased to direct attention to negative examples, so do what you can to highlight good ideas, good behavior, and good role models.

The more we can see through the talking points of any political party or source of disinformation, the harder it will be for them to get away with it. It's a small step, but it will help and likely has many other positive side effects for society and the individual.

Businesses and the economy run on trust. What future do we have if we believe everyone is a crook?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 09:33:44 AM by Read the Footnotes »

cwericb

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Re: MAGA is a cognitive fallacy
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2019, 10:41:10 AM »

One cannot help being a little confused with the constant bragging that “The United States is the greatest country in the world”.

But if that is true, why would it be necessary to  “Make America Great Again”?

Isn’t that a rather demeaning slogan?
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

Parsad

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Re: MAGA is a cognitive fallacy
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2019, 10:54:43 AM »

One cannot help being a little confused with the constant bragging that “The United States is the greatest country in the world”.

But if that is true, why would it be necessary to  “Make America Great Again”?

Isn’t that a rather demeaning slogan?

It's what could be called the perpetual irony of the "American" demagogue!  Cheers!
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LC

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Re: MAGA is a cognitive fallacy
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2019, 12:03:37 PM »
Obviously it makes no sense: If America is already great, why do we need to make it great again?

Of course it's useful to hear it over and over, because it lets you know the speaker is either (1) ignorant and unable to make a logical statement or (2) a liar and not to be trusted.
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DTEJD1997

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Re: MAGA is a cognitive fallacy
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2019, 12:07:47 PM »

One cannot help being a little confused with the constant bragging that “The United States is the greatest country in the world”.

But if that is true, why would it be necessary to  “Make America Great Again”?

Isn’t that a rather demeaning slogan?

After America came out of WWII, it was undisputed leader.  There was wealth & prosperity across almost the whole of the country.  It was so powerful, and so much ahead of most of the other countries, it was almost silly.

Fast forward to today.  America is still a great country...BUT...while America has kinda/sorta progressed, other regions/countries have made tremendous progress.  There are also TREMENDOUS areas of America and segments of the population that are much worse off than they were 30,40,50,70 years ago.

This is VERY easy to see in Detroit.  Detroit was once the richest city in America, was 4/5 largest in the country, was the "Arsenal of Democracy".  There was manufacturing, engineering, scientific knowledge in such quantities that the world had never seen before.  Now?  Not so much.  While Detroit has come back somewhat, it is but a shadow of it's former self.

Unfortunately, Detroit is not the only city to share this fate.  Look at Gary IN, Baltimore MD, St. Louis MO, and many others.  There are also rural areas that are hurting badly.

I think the slogan is meant to rouse people to make things better and that while America is a great place, it can be so much better in the future.