Author Topic: Make Alberta Great Again!  (Read 4425 times)

shalab

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Re: Make Alberta Great Again!
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2019, 10:08:52 PM »
Raw sewage is spilled into the ocean in British Columbia also

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/04/11/we-really-should-be-a-model-for-the-entire-world-but-were-just-not-there-yet-advocate-on-vancouvers-sewage-overflow-problem.html

Alberta has been very badly mismanaged for a very long time.
To get an idea as to just how badly mismanaged; look no further than the Alberta Heritage Trust Fund, created in 1976. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Heritage_Savings_Trust_Fund

Alberta has had how many ? YEARS to get pipeline egress built, and has sat on its ass the entire time. And during that entire time Alberta CONTINUALLY expanded Tar Sands production to the point where it has now made ALL oil in Alberta WORTHLESS.  We only have an industry today because a previous government finally imposed curtailment, and bought a rail fleet to move product.

Alberta addicted its citizenry to oil, and now ALL Abertan families are suffering withdrawal as the oil work goes away.
If all the province is going to do is 'rant' that it's everyone else's fault; it's going to be a real short conversation until the adults return. Lot of folks are sympathetic, but to a great many people the real solution is a comprehensive National Energy Policy 2.0. We also have o/g in other provinces, and the Maritimes. Alberta is hurting, but it is NOT 'special'.

The pipelines WILL get built, but it's not going to be tomorrow, or the day after.
One has to have been truly gifted, to have been this incompetent!

SD



Play fair - and be honest. Take the Northern Gateway project for example. First proposed in the mid-2000's, or roughly 14 years ago. Hardly sitting on your ass doing nothing. The problem is with your governments and the entire approval process. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enbridge_Northern_Gateway_Pipelines

And stupidity?  Don't ship oil from Alberta but import it from Saudi Arabia instead. After all their environmental record is so much better than Alberta? And they are second to none on human rights of course......

Hypocrisy runs freely -  its ok for Montreal to dump raw sewage into the river?  Tankers off the coast of BC are bad but ok in the St Lawrence?

I don't follow Canadian politics that closely, other than how it affects my E & P investments, but from what I can see, you can hardly lay the blame on Alberta.


SharperDingaan

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Re: Make Alberta Great Again!
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2019, 05:53:48 AM »
We are not fans of the "comrades", we're fans of good governance. By whoever does it.
Like it or not, a great many people in Alberta owe their continuing paycheques to Notley's decision to curtail; credit due for what was a very hard decision. Whatever your political view, the Nov/Dec 2018 differentials evidenced the reality - that without incremental egress, Alberta's oil is currently worthless.

The stupidity/hypocrisy is why many folks think a NEP 2.0 is what's really needed.
Pipelines, processing, & environmental facilities as federal crown-corps. The peoples oil company, pipeline company, refinery company, rail/ tanker company, and carbon trading/sequesture company; and materially owned by the peoples pension funds. Oil from Newfoundland flowing WEST and SOUTH to Montreal and the US North-East; and either new, or upgrading of existing refineries to process it. Apparently this is socialism! yet almost everywhere else in the world, this is everyday business.

What's needed is leadership, what we have is politicians playing games; that everyone else is paying for.
In the mean-time it's more of the same, until those 'in the works' pipeline expansions ACTUALLY deliver - eventually.
That peoples rail-car fleet that starts arriving in July - is starting to look pretty damn good right now.

Instead .. we have politicians trying to cancel the 'bird in hand' egress, in favour of a Line-3 'bird in the bush' of uncertain timing.
No possibility that one might actually do BOTH until the other pipelines are ACTUALLY built? AND get a PREMIUM price for WCS replacing production from VZ? But, apparently, there are no adults in the room?

Yes Alberta is hurting, and folks are sympathetic.
But a lot of this is of Alberta's own making - as the solution will be. Step-up to the plate, and put the ranting away.
Is that really too much to ask?

SD








« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 05:57:55 AM by SharperDingaan »

Cardboard

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Re: Make Alberta Great Again!
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2019, 06:20:52 AM »
Before dismissing my arguments Parsad maybe you should do a little arithmetic?

https://globalnews.ca/news/4710798/alberta-government-fiscal-update/

A $7.5 billion/year deficit while Quebec receives $14 billion/year in equalization from mostly Alberta and Saskatchewan. What happens if they stop paying? Should it not turn into a surplus?

I actually find it admirable that Alberta is still able to run such numbers after having gone through 4 years of hell with a socialist bunch who want to kill oil development, added a ton of red tape a la Obama on top of a 1 in 100 years oil crash.

Regarding my arguments, they are bang on. Governments always find a way to blow surpluses and run deficits to win elections. The smallest is government, the better. That is how you drive self-responsibility.

And Shalab and Zorrofan really brought up a great argument: Montreal and Vancouver people always have cleaner shit than the rest of us!

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Gregmal

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Re: Make Alberta Great Again!
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2019, 06:30:41 AM »
As much as I shit on the left, I will admit, that conceptually, I dont think many conservatives, even the most far right ones, disagree or take issue with the "ideas" per say, that are perpetuated by many of the loonies. Rather, what we take issue to is the blindness exhibited in how to bridge the gap to that idea. Just like AOC, many lefties just have no clue how to make these things happen, and lazily, the answer is always to make somebody else pay for it. Conservatives meanwhile see that these ideas, while well intentioned, are pie in the sky and not economically feasible, nor just, if the only way to achieve them is to steal from a certain segment of the population.


Parsad

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Re: Make Alberta Great Again!
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2019, 07:37:28 AM »
Before dismissing my arguments Parsad maybe you should do a little arithmetic?

https://globalnews.ca/news/4710798/alberta-government-fiscal-update/

A $7.5 billion/year deficit while Quebec receives $14 billion/year in equalization from mostly Alberta and Saskatchewan. What happens if they stop paying? Should it not turn into a surplus?

I actually find it admirable that Alberta is still able to run such numbers after having gone through 4 years of hell with a socialist bunch who want to kill oil development, added a ton of red tape a la Obama on top of a 1 in 100 years oil crash.

Regarding my arguments, they are bang on. Governments always find a way to blow surpluses and run deficits to win elections. The smallest is government, the better. That is how you drive self-responsibility.

And Shalab and Zorrofan really brought up a great argument: Montreal and Vancouver people always have cleaner shit than the rest of us!

Cardboard

I don't agree with the equalization payments when provinces are struggling themselves, but Alberta literally blew one of the greatest booms in the last 100 years in Canada or the United States:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-budget-real-numbers-2018-data-1.4559769

When the lefties actually teach fiscal responsibility, then you say it's NIMBY.  Remember that BC and Quebec treat the riverways and natural resources they have as financial assets.  They don't want to kill the industries (from fishing to shipping to tourism) that survive on that asset...there's a balance. 

By the way, as I had mentioned before, I'm in favour of doubling the TC pipeline...but Alberta shouldn't be throwing around threats of shutting off taps, not buying other provincial products, when they screwed themselves over 30 years.  Booms and busts happen...Alberta should have known better!  Cheers!
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no_free_lunch

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Re: Make Alberta Great Again!
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2019, 10:46:51 AM »
I don't think your logic makes sense Parsad.

You reference the equalization payments and then you just ignore them.  Alberta didn't blow a boom, they had their revenue taken via the equalization payments.  They would be sitting on several hundred billion right now if you add up all the equalization payments since the early 80's.

Cardboard

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Re: Make Alberta Great Again!
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2019, 11:09:12 AM »
"When the lefties actually teach fiscal responsibility, then you say it's NIMBY."

They were running a $7.5 billion/year deficit. How is that fiscal responsibility? Where were cuts to social programs?

What they did instead to get there was to create a carbon tax, raise taxes on corporations plus add a myriad of other regulations. How is that responsible when your economy is undergoing a massive crisis? You think this will create job and stimulate your economy?

"Remember that BC and Quebec treat the riverways and natural resources they have as financial assets.  They don't want to kill the industries (from fishing to shipping to tourism) that survive on that asset...there's a balance."

What is to remember is that these people are selfish pos and hypocrites. Not in my backyard applies fully. They will happily destroy their own land to make/save money but, when someone ask for help to carry oil safely through their land they say NO. Gotta to save the planet you know?

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Parsad

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Re: Make Alberta Great Again!
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2019, 03:51:37 PM »
I don't think your logic makes sense Parsad.

You reference the equalization payments and then you just ignore them.  Alberta didn't blow a boom, they had their revenue taken via the equalization payments.  They would be sitting on several hundred billion right now if you add up all the equalization payments since the early 80's.

Why does it not make sense?  What happened to the rest of the funds they generated...it's not as if the government took 70% for equalization payments.  They eliminated sales tax, started giving out Ralph bucks, reduced tax rates and ran deficit financing.  The rainy day eventually arrives and no one knew that better than Alberta with their cyclical economy.  Cheers!
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mranski

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Re: Make Alberta Great Again!
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2019, 01:04:13 PM »
Parsad, I think you have an inaccurate interpretation of the past Alberta governments. I lived there during the Lougheed, Getty, and Klein governments and they were generally fiscally responsible. There were legitimate attempts to diversity the economy, and they had to manage periods of low oil prices and downturns. It wasn’t wasteful wild spending governments if you actually lived it.



Parsad

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Re: Make Alberta Great Again!
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2019, 02:04:23 PM »
Parsad, I think you have an inaccurate interpretation of the past Alberta governments. I lived there during the Lougheed, Getty, and Klein governments and they were generally fiscally responsible. There were legitimate attempts to diversity the economy, and they had to manage periods of low oil prices and downturns. It wasn’t wasteful wild spending governments if you actually lived it.

If I do, then I'm not the only one.  Cheers!

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alberta/what-happened-to-albertas-cash-stash/article24191018/
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