Author Topic: Ocasio Cortez Plan 'economic security for those unwilling to work'  (Read 10712 times)

Castanza

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Re: Ocasio Cortez Plan 'economic security for those unwilling to work'
« Reply #90 on: February 13, 2019, 01:20:54 PM »
Quote
What's next? Every private home be required to purchase a fireproof cabinet to store gasoline and all small engines?

Or crazy things like homeowners insurance, car insurance, etc., right?

I mean, the only actual point your argument leads to is either:
(1) a rationalization of some regulations, in which case I agree and have already said as much, or
(2) a removal of all regulations, in which case I've again already mentioned how happily the anarchist board members will welcome you to their ranks.

Otherwise you are just complaining that "the big bad government" made you pay for a code inspection. What a tragedy.  ::)

Those are private companies. If they want to send out a consultant to look at my drywall screws before the insure me fine. I'll either accept their offer or find another insurer who doesn't care. Also chances are if they do require an inspection, they will send out an employee to do it free of charge.


MarkS

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Re: Ocasio Cortez Plan 'economic security for those unwilling to work'
« Reply #91 on: February 13, 2019, 04:46:31 PM »
Dr. Watson (aka LC)

Costanza wrote in pertinent part:

"Just last month I had to have an inspector come into my house and look at the screw patterns on my drywall to make sure it was "safe." Only once I paid $100 and had this approved was I allowed to put mud over it. "

In a passionate ode to government regulation you responded in pertinent part with:

"For example, what if you put all your drywall screws through the romex and it started an electrical fire, and burned down your house and died? Or even worse if it burned down half the block, and threw out the transformer and the neighborhood lost power?"

 I really would love to understand how you can claim that an inspector after sheet rock is hung could determine if the drywall screws went through the romex when the sheet rock is covering the romex?





LC

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Re: Ocasio Cortez Plan 'economic security for those unwilling to work'
« Reply #92 on: February 14, 2019, 11:56:14 AM »
I really would love to understand how you can claim that an inspector after sheet rock is hung could determine if the drywall screws went through the romex when the sheet rock is covering the romex?

Mark, please I implore you to do your own critical thinking. I mean, aren't you the one complaining about the quality of posts?

It's the mark of an honest man to take his own advice.

Castanza already gave you the answer to your question, anyways.

And to be frank - the enforcement of these items should be flexible and rational- which is a human problem. Inspectors in my area are generally understanding and do not nitpick. Perhaps Castanza offended the inspector, despite his charming personality (kidding, kidding!)  ;D ;D

Also Mark, is this really the point? The real question here is about the overall quality and quantity of regulations. Not whether this one particular inspection item is logical. And I agree there are bad regulations out there that should be rationalized - and I also agree there is also too much systemic friction to make these changes intelligently. But I don't agree that "all regulations should be scrapped, because I know best" like the anarchists here will argue. Maybe if you lived completely self sufficiently and was not part of a society you can argue that. But we live in an intertwined society - and of course you have the freedom to move to Alaska or anywhere else to escape the enforcement such crushing regulation. Of course, a lot of self-proclaimed anarchists never seem to be taking this route...
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 12:12:25 PM by LC »
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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MarkS

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Re: Ocasio Cortez Plan 'economic security for those unwilling to work'
« Reply #93 on: February 14, 2019, 12:18:24 PM »
I really would love to understand how you can claim that an inspector after sheet rock is hung could determine if the drywall screws went through the romex when the sheet rock is covering the romex?

Mark, please I implore you to do your own critical thinking. I mean, aren't you the one complaining about the quality of posts?

It's the mark of an honest man to take his own advice.

Castanza already gave you the answer to your question, anyways.

And to be frank - the enforcement of these items should be logical - which is a human problem. Inspectors in my area are generally understanding and do not nitpick. Perhaps Castanza offended the inspector, despite his charming personality (kidding, kidding!)  ;D ;D

Also Mark, is this really the point? The real question here is about the overall quality and quantity of regulations. Not whether this one particular inspection item is logical. And I agree there are bad regulations out there that should be rationalized - and I also agree there is also too much systemic friction to make these changes intelligently. But I don't agree that "all regulations should be scrapped" like the anarchists here will argue.

Dr. Watson (aka LC)

I'm so disappointed by your obvious efforts to deflect the question.  I just hope that Sherlock Schwab doesn't get too upset with you!  I brought up the subject because an inspector looking at screw patterns in the sheet rock isn't looking for potential fire hazards from damaged romex. Your "example" is simply wrong.

LC

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Re: Ocasio Cortez Plan 'economic security for those unwilling to work'
« Reply #94 on: February 14, 2019, 12:37:19 PM »
Mark I'm making up an example to illustrate the point of regulations.

More realistically, a ton (no Mark, not an actual ton) of drywall could fall and hit you on the head.

But do you really want to talk about one particular part of the UBC? I thought the point of this thread was about increased regulation.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 12:38:59 PM by LC »
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rkbabang

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Re: Ocasio Cortez Plan 'economic security for those unwilling to work'
« Reply #95 on: February 14, 2019, 01:04:18 PM »
I thought the point of this thread was about increased regulation.

It is?  The subject is about the crazy green deal, you know the one where no one has to work and we put an end to air travel.

LC

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Re: Ocasio Cortez Plan 'economic security for those unwilling to work'
« Reply #96 on: February 14, 2019, 01:29:26 PM »
Sorry that is fair - I misspoke. The last conversation in this thread has been basically discussing the following:

Quote
the very fact that we see increased regulation, increased laws, increased social programs, should be evidence enough that the government thinks it knows what's best for you
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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Cigarbutt

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Re: Ocasio Cortez Plan 'economic security for those unwilling to work'
« Reply #97 on: February 16, 2019, 05:52:19 AM »
Over time, the moderates in the US have quite consistently actively looked for work and have not typically expected a "we" to provide them with one.
One thing that seems to have changed for moderates is that, until recently, they had not felt that the deck "is stacked against people like me".
This is a fair assessment I would argue.
I have a question.  Do you guys believe that the moderates feel that the deck is stacked against them and in favor of the rich?  Or do you feel that the moderates believe that they ultimately pay for the 47% of the people who do not pay federal income tax? Or a combination of both?
That's a very interesting and tough question.
Mr. Romney tried to answer that question and used the 47% argument in some circles.

With the 2016 election, many swing voters (white, used to have a well-paid manufacturing job, various resentment feelings) moved in a direction to have something done.

If you look at the swing voters, there is a lot of data showing that the middle class is being hollowed out. The top part of the middle class has moved up, often by collecting non-labor related income, including earnings from pass-thru entities. The larger part though has seen its share of income (mostly labor income) stagnate.

It is no wonder that the average and moderate workers view capitalism less favorably. Various proposals to change the way the economic pie is "shared" may appeal tremendously in certain segments (balance of power) especially in a tougher economic environment.

Mr. Munger often says that he wants to know where he is going to die so that he doesn't go there.

Mississipi has been voting red for a long time. It hasn't always been that way and the possibility of significant segments of the population looking for alternatives should not be underestimated.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-powell-analysis/in-rural-mississippi-still-waiting-on-recovery-idUSKCN1Q30JH

FWIW I would say the best way to keep the minimum wage and government transfers down is to have an environment where people maintain hope to move up the ladder.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 06:08:35 AM by Cigarbutt »

MarkS

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Re: Ocasio Cortez Plan 'economic security for those unwilling to work'
« Reply #98 on: February 16, 2019, 07:04:15 AM »
Hi cigarbutt

Creating an environment where people maintain the hope and belief that they can move up the economic ladder is a noble cause.  I completely agree with the sentiment, however, I'm deeply sceptical over our long term ability to provide that environment.
Here are just some of the reasons why I'm sceptical:

1). Fewer marriages and fewer family formations

2). Poor lower educational system / high cost of college attendance

3).  Rising competition from developing countries

4). Rise of Artificial Intelligence

5).  High government debt levels limits ability for future spending on needed programs

6). Huge inflows of immigrants with little or no basic education and/or skills

7). Growing animosity between various identity groups

8).  Dysfunctional government

I could go on but I'm starting to find myself depressed. 😕


Cigarbutt

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Re: Ocasio Cortez Plan 'economic security for those unwilling to work'
« Reply #99 on: February 16, 2019, 07:24:06 AM »
Creating an environment where people maintain the hope and belief that they can move up the economic ladder is a noble cause.  I completely agree with the sentiment, however, I'm deeply sceptical over our long term ability to provide that environment.
Here are just some of the reasons why I'm sceptical:

1). Fewer marriages and fewer family formations

2). Poor lower educational system / high cost of college attendance

3).  Rising competition from developing countries

4). Rise of Artificial Intelligence

5).  High government debt levels limits ability for future spending on needed programs

6). Huge inflows of immigrants with little or no basic education and/or skills

7). Growing animosity between various identity groups

8).  Dysfunctional government

I could go on but I'm starting to find myself depressed. 😕
Hi MarkS,
Here's a link with an excerpt from Will Durant whose parents came from a similar genetic basin as mine and who moved to the US because it was the land of relative opportunities.
https://www.valueinvestingworld.com/
We'll get there (to be defined) somehow.
Also, all the reasons you mention should be seen as potential opportunities for value investors. :)
BTW my favorite cello piece is the Cello Suite No. 1, Prelude 1 by J.S. Bach. It is short, intense and full of hope!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 07:28:38 AM by Cigarbutt »