Author Topic: Police State  (Read 3786 times)

Mephistopheles

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Re: Police State
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2020, 07:08:27 AM »
Let me ask those who think we are going down the path of Fascism, have you studied the tactics/methods & historical context that led to the rise of those regimes & compared to US today? If not, I would suggest you do as this comparison is as valid as comparing 2008/9 to the Great Depression. 

I think this includes a good amount of speculation & the result is what picking up people & releasing them in response to a riot? Was there an imprisonment without due process?  How that is comparable to black or brownshirts killing your political enemies & putting your opponents in concentration camps I do not know.

Packer
Border Patrol agents should not be picking American civilians off the streets, this should be left to the states. Of course there has been a mass countrywide protest against state police and national guard overstepping their boundaries for the past month or two, but this crosses a whole new line and a dangerous one. Again, no comparison to concentration camps but that was not the point. Were they released? I don't know. Were they taken without probably cause? Likely.



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Where is Trump's deep bench other than his own mind?

The very topic of this thread is DOJ employees kidnapping US citizens. The AG himself has made complete mockery of the word Justice and functions as Trump's personal hit man.

Off topic, but the China comparison is not a convincing argument...by the same logic you could dismiss China's crimes against the Uyghurs by saying they pale in comparison to a "real" genocidal Nazi regime.

Bingo. When you have the most powerful law enforcement officer in the country acting as the personal attorney of the President, it is unprecedented. I am fearful of the shit he's going to pull during the election. Will the secret police be picking up liberal "protestors" (voters) off the streets? I don't think anything is out of the realm of possibilities, and it should be the #1 focus of the Democrats, but it's not.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 07:11:24 AM by Mephistopheles »


Gregmal

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Re: Police State
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2020, 07:30:05 AM »
I agree things have gotten a little out of hand, but I cant see for the life of me how anyone raising concerns about this topic while even pretending not to have an agenda hasn't brought up the most blatant example... the use of the FBI and DOJ to spy on and interfere with a political opponent. Same as with the Trump campaign(again trying to be logically consistent), many of these protesters must be aware that they run the risk of being found guilty by association.

Another big problem in America, is that people who complain about large issues have no problem being silent about the same issues when the situation falls outside there smaller circle of "their issues". Racism should be unequivocally wrong. Period. Police brutality should be unequivocally wrong. Period. Black live should matter. Period. Sadly this isn't the case to most, especially the ones who try to "appear" to be fighting the issue the hardest.

LC

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Re: Police State
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2020, 08:00:57 AM »
Oh I totally agree on using the FBI to spy on political opponents. Another tool straight from the authoritarian playbook.

On your second point I don't think people disagree, but there is a difference between public and private activities. Taxpayers can demand change to police departments in light of evidence of racism and police brutality. We fund the police - we should control who is hired/fired and make demands upon them.

It is a lot harder to demand change from black criminals in Chicago who are responsible for black-on-black violence in that city, for example.
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Gregmal

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Re: Police State
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2020, 09:18:02 AM »
It is a lot harder to demand change from black criminals in Chicago who are responsible for black-on-black violence in that city, for example.

True, but again this comes back to some of the core issues regarding laziness and self serving motives. You really, REALLY, want to make a positive change, then go all out. I am sure there are some well intentioned but ultimately misguided protesters. But there's also a lot of cowards and simply people with ulterior motives. You cant tell me the taxpayers in Chicago dont know where, or which neighborhood the violence is coming from.....thats bs. Want to really combat the issue of black lives? Get your asses out in those neighborhoods, in HUGE numbers..... but no. Its a lot easier leaking locations to the press so you can grandstand and antagonize police officers, bound by codes of conduct and in the moment held captive to that by all the media cameras undoubtedly on them and waiting for their shot at the next "exhibit" of brutality. Much, much easier to go that route then show up in terrible neighborhood where laws are REALLY meaningless and your physical safety is in question because no media member wants to go there and you've already done your best to drive out the cops!

Gregmal

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Re: Police State
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2020, 09:20:20 AM »
I mean fuck, you can storm police headquarters and destroy landmarks....but you dumbasses cant go ransack the neighborhood drug den and throw all the drug dealers out on their asses or engage in another "constitutional right", the citizens arrest, and drag those criminals asses to the precinct? Please....

rb

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Re: Police State
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2020, 10:18:42 AM »
Let me ask those who think we are going down the path of Fascism, have you studied the tactics/methods & historical context that led to the rise of those regimes & compared to US today? If not, I would suggest you do as this comparison is as valid as comparing 2008/9 to the Great Depression. 

I think this includes a good amount of speculation & the result is what picking up people & releasing them in response to a riot? Was there an imprisonment without due process?  How that is comparable to black or brownshirts killing your political enemies & putting your opponents in concentration camps I do not know.

Packer
Dude what are you even talking about. Why does any of that even matter?

You have Little Green Men snatching people off the street into unmarked vans. IN THE UNITED STATES! Unbelievable!

It doesn't really get more police statey than that. And the reply is well let's see if it's done the same like the Nazis did it? Or something about benches? Or my favourite: well at least we don't put them in concentration camps.... yet.

Packer16

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Re: Police State
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2020, 01:36:31 PM »
All I am saying is we will know the details over time & the situation they were picked up in had some rioting & vandalism.  Jumping to conclusions that we are in a police state is pretty extreme as was my response. Letís see how this plays out over time when all the facts are known.

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Gregmal

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Re: Police State
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2020, 01:43:33 PM »
I mean fuck, you can storm police headquarters and destroy landmarks....but you dumbasses cant go ransack the neighborhood drug den and throw all the drug dealers out on their asses or engage in another "constitutional right", the citizens arrest, and drag those criminals asses to the precinct? Please....

Good point Greg. I am surprised no one else has chimed in on this. Not only would your solution be much more time/energy efficient, but it would also significantly increase the positive ripple effect of a proactive community and protest. The failures to do this, despite it being a rather simple solution, really do highlight the fact that most active participants in these causes are phonies and total frauds, and that the people not participating but supporting it on a verbal level, are really just partisan hacks. I mean even on a basic level, these citizens cant even bother to call the local police on gang/drug activity in their communities?

After all, we complain about police culture; and it is indeed deserving of criticism, but ignore, largely from the same folks, the mongrelization of their own society, with such community wide slogans and attitudes as "snitches get stitches". Which translated into English, basically mean, if you dare stand up for or try to enforce the rules designed to protect and keep safe your community, you will be ostracized and likely face physical harm...these people are frauds and fakes as obvious as the George Floyd $20 bill.

LC

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Re: Police State
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2020, 01:54:39 PM »
I mean fuck, you can storm police headquarters and destroy landmarks....but you dumbasses cant go ransack the neighborhood drug den and throw all the drug dealers out on their asses or engage in another "constitutional right", the citizens arrest, and drag those criminals asses to the precinct? Please....

Good point Greg. I am surprised no one else has chimed in on this. Not only would your solution be much more time/energy efficient, but it would also significantly increase the positive ripple effect of a proactive community and protest.
Forget to log into your alt account? :D

Taxpayers pay POLICE to do exactly what you are saying. When the police misbehave, taxpayers don't do their job for them, they find better police!
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LC

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Re: Police State
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2020, 01:58:59 PM »
All I am saying is we will know the details over time & the situation they were picked up in had some rioting & vandalism.  Jumping to conclusions that we are in a police state is pretty extreme as was my response. Letís see how this plays out over time when all the facts are known.

Packer

Yes. Jumping to conclusions is usually never prudent. Most will agree there. I think what concerns myself and others is the fact that Trump's DOJ did this in the first place, given it is a blatant violation of the spirit & letter of the Constitution.

I mean, if a government takes a "Do First, Ask Forgiveness Later" approach to breaking its own founding principles, that is pretty concerning at least in my opinion. But thank you for sharing yours as well.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 02:01:34 PM by LC »
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