Author Topic: Probability of Trump fleeing the U.S. before January 20, 2021 and where?  (Read 3223 times)

Parsad

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Re: Probability of Trump fleeing the U.S. before January 20, 2021 and where?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2020, 06:29:57 PM »
Did Obounga get locked up for: "You can keep your doctor?"

Orchestrating a cover up of Libya ambassador killing?

Then most probably for lying about his true birth place?

Cardboard

Cardboard, I don't mind you voicing your opinion, but often you tread masochistic, racist or homophobic thin lines.  For example, this post and turning Obama into Obounga is borderline racist.  The next comment that treads that line gets you permanently kicked out! 

Also, the whole birther thing, which even Trump doesn't support anymore is also blatantly racist.  If Obama was white, you wouldn't even suggest it...like no one suggests it with Trump.  How you twist names for Kamala, or other minority politicians, also underlines either a complete lack of respect for other people, or racist tendencies. 

It won't be tolerated anymore.  Cheers!
No man is a failure who has friends!


LearningMachine

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Re: Probability of Trump fleeing the U.S. before January 20, 2021 and where?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2020, 06:43:37 PM »
Learningmachine, if Im remembering you correctly, you've done some quality work on a few of the office REITs...how do you value private assets? You and I both know the answer to this. Fair values are usually ranges, and sensitive to inputs and also of course, market movements. Everything it seems Trump does from an accounting and finance perspective, seems very aggressive but very par for the course when it comes to the RE folks. Maybe it appears his values are off...tell me, as a prosecutor...where's you angle? He used replacement value instead of an NOI derived figure? He used too aggressive a cap rate? He used an old appraisal? There's very little that sticks in terms of proving anything that puts him behind bars, even if everyone "knows" what game he was playing.

Gregmal, I don't think Trump will be prosecuted on something that is gray area.  I think many independent prosecutors will do a good job at sticking to what is provable very clearly for independent triers of fact (Judges, Juries) to come to a decision that Trump did make many false statements to the government. 

Given Trump's history of making many false and inaccurate statements, I put the probability above 95% that if prosecutors are able to go ahead when Trump is a normal citizen, they will be able to prove to independent triers of fact (Judges, Juries) that Trump made many false statements to the government.

LearningMachine

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Re: Probability of Trump fleeing the U.S. before January 20, 2021 and where?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2020, 06:47:11 PM »
The possible outcomes on any number of topics/issues we will see on election day and after are interesting to think about. Trump or Biden win? Clear cut result or disputed? If disputed, how disputed?

If Trump loses that is where things get wickedly interesting. What does he do? Does he flee to another country? (Hadnít thought about that one). Does he resign / get pardoned by Pence before new President is sworn in? What is Trumpís role in Republican party in defeat? How does Republican party establishment respond? Do they try and kick Trump to the curb?

Once Biden is sworn in (assuming he wins) what is Trumpís role in national politics? Will Trump be even more vocal with the shackles of government removed? Will Trump be even more influential/revered with his core base of support? Will Trump be even more of a disruptive force as a private citizen?

There is a case to be made that in defeat Trump will continue to hold enormous power. He might not need to flee :-)

PS: and the next Presidential election is only 4 short years away! What are the odds Trump runs again in 4 years if he loses this election?

Viking, I agree Trump will continue to hold enormous power to incite violence or start civil war.  However, because he will lose protections of the Presidency, prosecutors will move in quickly to charge him for making false statements in the past, and for aiding and abetting violence if he does so.

If he was negotiating with a single person representing all of U.S. and state government branches, maybe he could have used threat of violence, but that won't be the case.  All independent prosecutors will be just following the law that is already written, and those laws cannot be changed for one person.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 06:49:51 PM by LearningMachine »

cubsfan

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Re: Probability of Trump fleeing the U.S. before January 20, 2021 and where?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2020, 07:13:10 PM »
^Yeah, but the problem you are going to have:  Once Amy Barrett gets confirmed, Trump will have his court stacked. If/when convicted, he'll just
eventually appeal to his Supreme Court and will go off Scott Free....sucks doesn't it??

LearningMachine

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Re: Probability of Trump fleeing the U.S. before January 20, 2021 and where?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2020, 07:29:02 PM »
^Yeah, but the problem you are going to have:  Once Amy Barrett gets confirmed, Trump will have his court stacked. If/when convicted, he'll just
eventually appeal to his Supreme Court and will go off Scott Free....sucks doesn't it??

Yes, he and Barr have been working on putting holes in the foundations of our democracy, brick by brick. 

One thing that gives me hope is Supreme Court rules on issues of law, e.g. interpretation of constitution, whether laws are constitutional, etc.   So, Supreme Court cannot say the trier of fact below determined facts incorrectly, but they can say that new law of the land is that ex-president cannot be prosecuted.  However, if they do something like that, they will be setting precedence for the future.  So, they will have to be careful to say the equivalent of something like president is above the law.

I feel some hope with the Supreme Court Justices, even if nominated by Republicans, to protect our democracy because they will be somewhat bound by past precedence and will have to be cognizant of setting precedence for the future.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 07:31:31 PM by LearningMachine »

Viking

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Re: Probability of Trump fleeing the U.S. before January 20, 2021 and where?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2020, 09:04:41 PM »
^Yeah, but the problem you are going to have:  Once Amy Barrett gets confirmed, Trump will have his court stacked. If/when convicted, he'll just
eventually appeal to his Supreme Court and will go off Scott Free....sucks doesn't it??

Yes, he and Barr have been working on putting holes in the foundations of our democracy, brick by brick. 

One thing that gives me hope is Supreme Court rules on issues of law, e.g. interpretation of constitution, whether laws are constitutional, etc.   So, Supreme Court cannot say the trier of fact below determined facts incorrectly, but they can say that new law of the land is that ex-president cannot be prosecuted.  However, if they do something like that, they will be setting precedence for the future.  So, they will have to be careful to say the equivalent of something like president is above the law.

I feel some hope with the Supreme Court Justices, even if nominated by Republicans, to protect our democracy because they will be somewhat bound by past precedence and will have to be cognizant of setting precedence for the future.

If the supreme court gets obviously partisan (which i doubt) than voters will be ok with Biden stacking supreme court.

But regardless Democrats have the green light to do whatever their numbers allow. Trump/Republicans have said historical precedents no longer matter.


LearningMachine

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Re: Probability of Trump fleeing the U.S. before January 20, 2021 and where?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2020, 09:56:23 PM »
^Yeah, but the problem you are going to have:  Once Amy Barrett gets confirmed, Trump will have his court stacked. If/when convicted, he'll just
eventually appeal to his Supreme Court and will go off Scott Free....sucks doesn't it??

Yes, he and Barr have been working on putting holes in the foundations of our democracy, brick by brick. 

One thing that gives me hope is Supreme Court rules on issues of law, e.g. interpretation of constitution, whether laws are constitutional, etc.   So, Supreme Court cannot say the trier of fact below determined facts incorrectly, but they can say that new law of the land is that ex-president cannot be prosecuted.  However, if they do something like that, they will be setting precedence for the future.  So, they will have to be careful to say the equivalent of something like president is above the law.

I feel some hope with the Supreme Court Justices, even if nominated by Republicans, to protect our democracy because they will be somewhat bound by past precedence and will have to be cognizant of setting precedence for the future.

If the supreme court gets obviously partisan (which i doubt) than voters will be ok with Biden stacking supreme court.

But regardless Democrats have the green light to do whatever their numbers allow. Trump/Republicans have said historical precedents no longer matter.

Just to clarify, I think we might have mixed two types of precedence (1) What presidents and the majority party in the senate/congress follow, etc., and (2) Written case law, i.e. all levels of courts needing to be consistent with earlier written decisions, and when deviating, having to provide written reasoning, which will form written precedence for future cases.

While Trump/Republicans may choose to ignore #1, #2 is much stronger and forms one of the most established principles in all federal and state courts.  Also, because it has to be written, it becomes subject to scrutiny from a lot of eyes.  So, courts have to go to extreme lengths to make sure their written decisions are logically solid to withstand scrutiny from thousands of lawyers who can see through inaccurate statements and conclusions that are not entirely logical (unlike general public), now and in the future.  Having inaccurate statements or illogical conclusions, e.g. the kinds of things that Trump, Barr and Republicans do, won't go by easily in courts' written decisions. 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 10:00:45 PM by LearningMachine »

adesigar

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Re: Probability of Trump fleeing the U.S. before January 20, 2021 and where?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2020, 10:53:19 PM »
Did Obounga get locked up for: "You can keep your doctor?"

Orchestrating a cover up of Libya ambassador killing?

Then most probably for lying about his true birth place?

Cardboard

Curious how the only names you guys donít spell properly are Obama and Kamala? I know that for some reason Republicans and Fox News canít pronounce the names but you canít even spell them?

Gregmal

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Re: Probability of Trump fleeing the U.S. before January 20, 2021 and where?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2020, 10:58:26 PM »
Did Obounga get locked up for: "You can keep your doctor?"

Orchestrating a cover up of Libya ambassador killing?

Then most probably for lying about his true birth place?

Cardboard

Curious how the only names you guys donít spell properly are Obama and Kamala? I know that for some reason Republicans and Fox News canít pronounce the names but you canít even spell them?

It must be because only racists mispronounce those names!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9ZdmVGoKK8


adesigar

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Re: Probability of Trump fleeing the U.S. before January 20, 2021 and where?
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2020, 11:03:09 PM »
Did Obounga get locked up for: "You can keep your doctor?"

Orchestrating a cover up of Libya ambassador killing?

Then most probably for lying about his true birth place?

Cardboard

Cardboard, I don't mind you voicing your opinion, but often you tread masochistic, racist or homophobic thin lines.  For example, this post and turning Obama into Obounga is borderline racist.  The next comment that treads that line gets you permanently kicked out! 

Also, the whole birther thing, which even Trump doesn't support anymore is also blatantly racist.  If Obama was white, you wouldn't even suggest it...like no one suggests it with Trump.  How you twist names for Kamala, or other minority politicians, also underlines either a complete lack of respect for other people, or racist tendencies. 

It won't be tolerated anymore.  Cheers!

Parsed YOU are part of the problem. The warnings should have been given the first time it happened. You let it go on for so long that they assumed it was ok. Why are there even temporary bans for rascist and sexist comments? Why are there temporary bans for people who wish ill on others? Why isnít it an instant permaban? Why have you been ok with these comments for so long?