Question for Trump Supporters Who Support the Overthrow of the US Government

[Read the Footnotes]

For those of you who support Trump and think that things in the USA are so bad that we should "burn it all down", I am wondering have you considered moving to a different country, and if so, which country do you think "gets it right"?

Board members, regardless of political belief, might find the list useful even if just for vacation ideas or research purposes.

Thanks.

[Parsad]

For those of you who support Trump and think that things in the USA are so bad that we should "burn it all down", I am wondering have you considered moving to a different country, and if so, which country do you think "gets it right"?

Board members, regardless of political belief, might find the list useful even if just for vacation ideas or research purposes.

Thanks.

I'm guessing North Korea, Russia and Saudi Arabia.  AOC is not well liked in any of those countries.  Cheers!

[rkbabang]

I hate Trump, but think it should be burned down.  If there was someplace better to go I'd have already moved there.  The world is a shithole where every square inch of inhabitable land is controlled by one gang or another, many places in dispute between multiple gangs, and 7 billion people belong to cults which worship them, and make them willing to fight and die for them. The US is the best of a bad lot. It's like being asked to eat the least gross maggot in a bucket of trash, then saying "if you don't like that one, why don't you just eat another one?"

[Read the Footnotes]

For those of you who support Trump and think that things in the USA are so bad that we should "burn it all down", I am wondering have you considered moving to a different country, and if so, which country do you think "gets it right"?

Board members, regardless of political belief, might find the list useful even if just for vacation ideas or research purposes.

Thanks.

I'm guessing North Korea, Russia and Saudi Arabia.  AOC is not well liked in any of those countries.  Cheers!

I'm sure there are lovely beaches in each of those countries, but let's try to be constructive and factual in this thread. I think what we have learned from Parsad's post is that is factual is that at least one resident of a liberal western democracy may not be eager to welcome Trump supporters, but we still don't have any suggested countries.

Bill Gates has been quoted repeatedly saying that he always likes to ask when confronting a problem:
1) Who does this really well, and
2) What can we learn from them.

So back to my question for our Trump supporting friends, what country do you prefer to the USA and why?

[Read the Footnotes]

I hate Trump, but think it should be burned down.  If there was someplace better to go I'd have already moved there.  The world is a shithole where every square inch of inhabitable land is controlled by one gang or another, many places in dispute between multiple gangs, and 7 billion people belong to cults which worship them, and make them willing to fight and die for them. The US is the best of a bad lot. It's like being asked to eat the least gross maggot in a bucket of trash, then saying "if you don't like that one, why don't you just eat another one?"

Ok, so you, RK, don't like trump, have no place else to go, but you still want to burn the USA down. Not an perspective I had on my radar, thanks. I was hoping that we would hear from Trump supporters, but since it's an interesting perspective, I have two questions in response to your post.

How do you see blowing up your best option as being different from an astronaut wanting to blow up his spaceship somewhere between the earth and the moon just because they don't like the decorating?

Are their other alternatives you consider?

[JRM]

I don't view myself as a Trump supporter or a 'burn-it-all down' advocate.

I guess you could label me as a conspiracy theorist because I believe there is enough credible evidence of election irregularities at a large enough scale to warrant further investigation and discussion.

The rebuttal by the democrats is as follows:

1.  No evidence

Anybody making this statement is either ignorant or lying

2.  The courts threw out all cases based on merits

Very few cases made it to the 'judgement based on merits' phase.  Many were thrown out (legitimately) due to lack of standing or other technicalities.  In cases where the courts recognized that illegal voters cast ballots, they didn't view it as their job to throw out ballots.  As far as I know, there is no good way to link an illegal voter to a ballot.  How do you know which ballots exactly to throw out?  They want the legislature to sort his out.  I agree that it is not the court's job to decide an election, and that was what they were being asked to do in most cases.

3.  Most secure election in US history

This is the most laughable.  A large scale cyber attack was underway before, during, and after the election.  CISA was nowhere to be found, yet the (former) CISA director comes out and says this was the most secure election in US history.  He has no credibility at this point.  However, the democrats have been repeating this line ad nauseam.

Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley did nothing to incite the mob or condone violence by voicing objections to the election processes in Arizona and Pennsylvania.  Both state legislatures have recognized that their elections had major issues and are still trying to get to the bottom of their issues.

My life wasn't better or worse under Bush, Obama, or Trump.  I don't think it matters that much who is president.  I think faith in our elections matters immensely, and more transparency should be welcomed.

[Read the Footnotes]

I don't view myself as a Trump supporter or a 'burn-it-all down' advocate.

I guess you could label me as a conspiracy theorist because I believe there is enough credible evidence of election irregularities at a large enough scale to warrant further investigation and discussion.

The rebuttal by the democrats is as follows:

1.  No evidence

Anybody making this statement is either ignorant or lying

2.  The courts threw out all cases based on merits

Very few cases made it to the 'judgement based on merits' phase.  Many were thrown out (legitimately) due to lack of standing or other technicalities.  In cases where the courts recognized that illegal voters cast ballots, they didn't view it as their job to throw out ballots.  As far as I know, there is no good way to link an illegal voter to a ballot.  How do you know which ballots exactly to throw out?  They want the legislature to sort his out.  I agree that it is not the court's job to decide an election, and that was what they were being asked to do in most cases.

3.  Most secure election in US history

This is the most laughable.  A large scale cyber attack was underway before, during, and after the election.  CISA was nowhere to be found, yet the (former) CISA director comes out and says this was the most secure election in US history.  He has no credibility at this point.  However, the democrats have been repeating this line ad nauseam.

Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley did nothing to incite the mob or condone violence by voicing objections to the election processes in Arizona and Pennsylvania.  Both state legislatures have recognized that their elections had major issues and are still trying to get to the bottom of their issues.

My life wasn't better or worse under Bush, Obama, or Trump.  I don't think it matters that much who is president.  I think faith in our elections matters immensely, and more transparency should be welcomed.

Interesting. Thanks for your comments, JRM. Seems like your primary issue is with the court cases, so a couple of questions regarding your interpretation of the cases.

Were you aware that some of the Republican judges including Trump appointees suggested that Trump's lawyers should be investigated and potentially disbarred because their lawsuits appeared to publicity stunts with no legal standing or basis and that they were an abuse of the court system? That is one potential explanation as to why some cases might have been dismissed so summarily.

Here's one interesting and more recent example from just this past Thursday, where Jerome Marcus, Trump's lawyer in the Philadelphia County Board of Elections case, resigned and accused the Trump or possibly the Trump campaign of a crime in bringing the case saying:

"the client has used the lawyer's services to perpetrate a crime and the client insists upon taking action that the lawyer considers repugnant"

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.paed.577781/gov.uscourts.paed.577781.9.0_1.pdf

Since attorney's are officers of the court they have certain obligations and should not take these sorts of issues lightly.

JRM, several question for you:
1) Were you aware of Trump appointees accusing abuse of the system and this most recent resignation, and
2) If so, how did you reconcile them with your previous statements?
3) If you weren't aware of these facts, how do you interpret them now that I've brought them to your attention?
4) Is there a country that you, JRM, think does it better than the USA?

[bobozou]

@JRM or others who think believe there is 'evidence of [above average] election irregularities at a large enough scale...'

Full disclosure:
1) I haven't come across evidence of this, mainly cause I consume (probably) left-leaning mainstream/tech media... and I don't even know where to begin searching for 'credible' evidence of this to form a more-balanced opinion
2) I'm genuinely interested, NOT in engaging in a debate on this (because I don't know the data intimately), but to evaluate-the-evidence (that those who believe the 'election fraud narrative' find compelling), to form my own opinion on the theory

Question:
Are there links (recognizing that they probably won't be 'mainstream') where someone can point me to both the analysis and raw data that suggests 'above average amount of election fraud'?  And to be clear, I think there's probably ALWAYS some base-level of fraud (which varies depending on geographical/historical norms) - but I'd be very appreciative to see the evidence that 'above average fraud happened at national level in 2020'

[Gregmal]

If revamping government = "burning everything down", I am not quite should one is truly all too concerned with or even appreciative of, democracy. If by burning everything down, there is a reference to something else, I guess I missed it.

The issue fundamentally, which is what the majority of Americans take issue with, regardless of where they choose to protest/riot/insurrect, is that the government isnt doing its job. The folks in power are hypocrites and liars and it is a bipartisan issue. The discord is regularly monetized by whatever party it benefits, to rile people up, and motivate folks to do what said politicians want. This shit is then gargled around MSM and regurgitated by snot nosed elitists who live in mansions and get paid extraordinarily well to add little value to the world, IE C-suite type, university professors, journalists, etc. Those people dont care about America, and simply use their virtue signaling for personal benefit.

Case in point....you have vaccines ready to go and a shit show system in place....and Trump is whining about his Twitter account, and Nancy Pelosi and friends are pushing for another political show and otherwise waste of time trying to impeach a guy who is going to be out of office in 10 days...

[Rod]

Maybe a Libertarian utopia can be formed somewhere (at sea?) and our Libertarian friends here and elsewhere can live out their dreams of “pure freedom” while the rest of us can get on with our lives in our respective “shit hole” countries.