Author Topic: Question for Trump Supporters Who Support the Overthrow of the US Government  (Read 12882 times)

cwericb

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"For anyone in the US giving any serious thought to moving here sometime in the future I would strongly suggest that first spend a winter there."  :)

Yeah, there is that. But I don't know if it is climate change or what, but every year our weather gets warmer and warmer. In 2020 we set new average temperature highs 11 months out of 12. Our days with temperatures over 20C (68F) increased by a full 20% - not a small number.

Used to be no one had A/C now most houses have a heat pump for heating and cooling and the government subsidizes them.

My sister and husband bought a 'ruin' in Portugal and had it rebuilt at an amazingly low price and have been spending more and more time there. I am amazed at how much of their social programs (like medical) seem to cover them. They decided to take Portuguese courses and were shocked to find out that they were not free - the government actually paid them to take the course!
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain


ERICOPOLY

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Here's where I'm at, one side is lying and it would be easy to figure out who is lying by allowing a non-partisan inspection of the voting machines and mail-in ballots.  That's what Arizona, Georgia, and Pennsylvania are working towards (I believe).

Donald Trumpís *personal attorney* went to prison for election fraud. With your own eyes, you can see the check - written by Trump Org - to reimburse Michael Cohen, and you can hear Trump discuss it with Cohen on tape. None of the evidence Trump's team has presented is this concrete.

Itís awful easy to see who is lying here. Itís been slapping you in the face for the last four years.

I see they're not going near your post with a 10 foot pole.

JRM

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Here's where I'm at, one side is lying and it would be easy to figure out who is lying by allowing a non-partisan inspection of the voting machines and mail-in ballots.  That's what Arizona, Georgia, and Pennsylvania are working towards (I believe).

Donald Trumpís *personal attorney* went to prison for election fraud. With your own eyes, you can see the check - written by Trump Org - to reimburse Michael Cohen, and you can hear Trump discuss it with Cohen on tape. None of the evidence Trump's team has presented is this concrete.

Itís awful easy to see who is lying here. Itís been slapping you in the face for the last four years.

That's great.  What does any of that have to do with this election other than Trump is a fraudster and shouldn't be trusted?  Just because he's a POS doesn't mean the allegations are all false.

cwericb

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Here's where I'm at, one side is lying and it would be easy to figure out who is lying by allowing a non-partisan inspection of the voting machines and mail-in ballots.  That's what Arizona, Georgia, and Pennsylvania are working towards (I believe).

Donald Trumpís *personal attorney* went to prison for election fraud. With your own eyes, you can see the check - written by Trump Org - to reimburse Michael Cohen, and you can hear Trump discuss it with Cohen on tape. None of the evidence Trump's team has presented is this concrete.

Itís awful easy to see who is lying here. Itís been slapping you in the face for the last four years.

That's great.  What does any of that have to do with this election other than Trump is a fraudster and shouldn't be trusted?  Just because he's a POS doesn't mean the allegations are all false.

It is Trump who is making the allegations so you believe the "fraudster" over the courts who have thrown out 61 of 61 of his attempts to discredit the vote?
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

Dalal.Holdings

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JRM's mistakes are equivalent to someone who is deciding between investing in company A and B.

They read company A's 10-K and find some "concerning items". They don't bother reading company B's filings. They choose to invest in company B due to "problems" in company A's 10-k even though they never read company B's filing.

The Availability heuristic/Availability bias is involved, along with a few others.

If you want to be objective, you have to look at company B (and C, D, E...). You'll have to look at fraudulent votes that went to Trump (literally crickets about this). You'll have to compare with other recent Presidential elections to see if fraud was elevated compared to 2016, 2012, 2008, etc... (spoiler: it was not).

Unless you want to dig through at least a bunch of recent Presidential elections (I assure you, there were "problems" and "errors" in all of them as there will be when you are counting > 100M votes) and compare with 2020, you are committing the bias. Unless you want to count fraud that went Trump's way, you are committing the bias.

Then you have to look at the magnitude of the "concerning items". Take "number of erroneous votes for Biden" and subtract "number of erroneous votes for Trump" and see if the resulting number at all comes close to impacting state by state results (spoiler: it does not).

As with investing or elections, you have to figure out whether the "concerning items" in a 10-K filing or election are actually material to your investment/election outcome. Spoiler alert: the "concerning items" with an ounce of truth to them were not anywhere close to material in the 2020 election.

If you are going to avoid investing any time there is any concerning item/red flag in an investment, you will never make it beyond the "risks" section of the 10-K. You will be paralyzed and never be able to make any investment.

Of course "looking at company B" also means looking at the "concerning items" that went in Trump's favor. A lot of these folks conveniently ignore all the "concerning items" that went in Trump's favor:

Quote
It looks like Donald Trump was right after all. Authorities say they have uncovered evidence of Pennsylvania voter fraud ó a dead person voting.
Donít expect the president to boast about it, though. It was one of his supporters who was nabbed.
Again.
This is the third case of authorities filing voter fraud charges in Pennsylvania. All three of the accused are Republicans, in case youíve lost track.

https://www.mcall.com/opinion/mc-opi-pennsylvania-voter-fraud-donald-trump-muschick-20201223-cnltcwpt4rc3bje7gpvam2l6nm-story.html

Parsad

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Here's where I'm at, one side is lying and it would be easy to figure out who is lying by allowing a non-partisan inspection of the voting machines and mail-in ballots.  That's what Arizona, Georgia, and Pennsylvania are working towards (I believe).

Donald Trumpís *personal attorney* went to prison for election fraud. With your own eyes, you can see the check - written by Trump Org - to reimburse Michael Cohen, and you can hear Trump discuss it with Cohen on tape. None of the evidence Trump's team has presented is this concrete.

Itís awful easy to see who is lying here. Itís been slapping you in the face for the last four years.

That's great.  What does any of that have to do with this election other than Trump is a fraudster and shouldn't be trusted?  Just because he's a POS doesn't mean the allegations are all false.

It is Trump who is making the allegations so you believe the "fraudster" over the courts who have thrown out 61 of 61 of his attempts to discredit the vote?

On this point, I agree with the right wing guys.  Not that Trump isn't a criminal, but so far, the courts have done an awful job proving their case...eg. The Russian Investigation.  I still don't know how they didn't nail him for that alone...but it's like Canada's Air India case, which was full of technical mistakes that negated the evidence that was incriminating.   

That being said, if there are investigations that are going to be brought forth against Trump and his empire, then the government better win the damn cases, because otherwise the conspiracy nutjobs are going to explode and the legions believing it are going to swell even higher.  Cheers!
No man is a failure who has friends!

JRM

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"Then you have to look at the magnitude of the "concerning items". Take "number of erroneous votes for Biden" and subtract "number of erroneous votes for Trump" and see if the resulting number at all comes close to impacting state by state results (spoiler: it does not)."

Do you have a source for this information?

How are you able to quantify fraudulent votes for trump vs biden when nobody has access to the voting machines?  Are you relying on the same "faulty" logic as Trump's legal teams?

What about the constitutionality of the changes to election process in numerous states (Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and probably more).  Clearly illegal to anybody rationally evaluating the situation.  The question is, why didn't anybody do anything before the election.  They claimed they couldn't take the issues to court before the election because "nobody was harmed".  In most all cases, the courts helped make the changes (read that sentence again).  They bring these issues to the courts after the election and the courts say "you should have come to us before the election."  It's a flawed system.

Read the Footnotes

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On this point, I agree with the right wing guys.  Not that Trump isn't a criminal, but so far, the courts have done an awful job proving their case...eg. The Russian Investigation.  I still don't know how they didn't nail him for that alone...but it's like Canada's Air India case, which was full of technical mistakes that negated the evidence that was incriminating.   

That being said, if there are investigations that are going to be brought forth against Trump and his empire, then the government better win the damn cases, because otherwise the conspiracy nutjobs are going to explode and the legions believing it are going to swell even higher.  Cheers!
I predict that the system of justice in the USA will start to look more competent in about 70 hours.

https://howmanydaystill.com/its/trump-gone-8

cwericb

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What is truly frightening is that millions of Americans are still so gullible that they really believe the propaganda that Trump and his team have produced. Combining that with the mistrust Trump has sowed about the free press leaves the country in a very vulnerable position. Russia, China, Korea, Iran and others around the world must be overjoyed.

The people that want to see the government overthrown seem to have no idea of what they want to replace it with with and any vacuum would be quickly filled with a dictatorship that would serve its own ends.  I would strongly suggest that those who support Trump educate themselves on the rise of Hitler and how he reached the position where he was able to start a world war.

 
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

Read the Footnotes

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"Then you have to look at the magnitude of the "concerning items". Take "number of erroneous votes for Biden" and subtract "number of erroneous votes for Trump" and see if the resulting number at all comes close to impacting state by state results (spoiler: it does not)."

Do you have a source for this information?
Well, I think the primary mistake that Dalal made was overlooking a massive fraud. There are accusations of a massive criminal conspiracy that is very likely to result in at least some criminal convictions. Though it wasn't successful, that attempted fraud involved almost 12,000 votes and could have resulted in changing the outcome of one of the States that Trump was trying to contest.

There are further indications that the same techniques might have been applied in five other states and that it is possible there may be evidence of wrong doing in these other states that the public doesn't yet know about. It's actually more common for prosecutors to not let the public know what is going on than to disclose information publicly before charging people. In fact if they do leak information, it is often to encourage others to come forward with information.

So as JRM suggested earlier there may be many criminal cases and convictions forthcoming and we are just going to have to be patient.