Author Topic: Refilling The Trump Swamp!  (Read 2118 times)

Gregmal

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Re: Refilling The Trump Swamp!
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2019, 09:34:34 AM »
Quote
the real detail.

Its being done at cost. In other words, Trump makes no money.

Are you dropping your previous primary argument 'the real detail" and switching to rationalizations?

It seems to me that Trump is trying to prove that everyone is crooked and can't be trusted by using himself as an example. He is setting up a false dichotomy of it's either me, or the other guys who are worse. All the evidence points to him actually being much more corrupt. It's incredibly cynical to allow that when there might be other better options.

Just as "spend less at Doral or spend more somewhere else" may be a false dichotomy. Who said they have to spend more elsewhere? Do you have evidence?

I understand the frustration with other politicians, but choosing to overlook the sins of a politician who is likely setting all time records for political corruption is just inexplicable. Don't forget Trump's first big successes were mired in political/tax corruption. So this corruption goes back four decades. Here's an example just mentioned today in Politico. (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/10/18/trump-giuliani-ukraine-lawyer-new-york-history-friendship-229857)

Plus the timing of this is likely a distraction technique. Trump would rather us argue about the legality of what he might do than the illegality of what he has already admitted to.

The real question is what would be a bridge to far for you Trump supporters? Is there anything he could do that would shake your confidence? If he announced he was suspending the constitution tomorrow and appointing himself King to protect us from AOC, would you accept that as reasonable and acceptable? Or would that seem to be selling a false dichotomy to and destroying our system of government?

Where did I say that? My comment was that the real detail(whether accurate or not), is that its said to be done at cost...to which you respond with all these speculations about "other ways" they are making money. Which if objective, you know is bullshit because there's not enough definitive detail to make a conclusion either way there, if solely going by verifiable facts... you accuse others of changing the argument, but it is often you who does it. My point...the reporting is leaving out reportable information. And in either event, I dont care if he is or isn't making money....simple enough.
Ok. I get what you are saying. You are more focussed on the belief that there is not cash cost to the government? Is that a more important element in your argument?

At the same time you did say "Trump makes no money". So it seems you are conceding the point that there is real value in bookings at cost due the fixed cost nature of the business, you just don't care or believe it is immaterial. I think I understand now.

Sort of. I can argue whether he is or isn't, or whether there are peripheral benefits or not(or even whether those peripheral benefits would matter given he'd have them anyway once he leaves office)...What I'm saying is the outrage to me is irrelevant because the problem is systemic and has been forever and if the only outrage now is disingenuous because its Trump doing it, that solves nothing...

Ok. So as an analyst, who has proven his analytics capabilities on CoB&F (at least on the boards other than the Politics board), do you believe that booking for an extended period of time the entire resort (because they will have exclusive use of Doral and they will not book rooms or facilities elsewhere according to Mulvaney) of a struggling business with high fixed costs has some value to the Trump Organization, and therefore the Trump and his children?

LOL you just dont get it, do you? I. DONT. CARE.

And you, are only complaining, because of a not so thinly veiled hatred of Trump.

So your case can be valid or invalid and still completely meaningless to me. The larger issue is politicians, which no one seemed to be all that vocal about prior to Trump...so I give no credence to people who only now pretend to be concerned about these issues, when their primary motivating factor isn't the larger issue itself; just a politician they dont like.


Read the Footnotes

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Re: Refilling The Trump Swamp!
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2019, 09:37:24 AM »
I checked GolfNow earlier. It looks like a grand total of 18 people are reserved to play on one doral course this afternoon. Another course is doing better before 2 pm, but is wide open after 2. The Blue Monster course has a total of 3 reservations after 2 pm. The fourth course wasn't listed.

That's a pretty sad showing for a Friday afternoon.

Read the Footnotes

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Re: Refilling The Trump Swamp!
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2019, 09:49:48 AM »
Quote
the real detail.

Its being done at cost. In other words, Trump makes no money.

Are you dropping your previous primary argument 'the real detail" and switching to rationalizations?

It seems to me that Trump is trying to prove that everyone is crooked and can't be trusted by using himself as an example. He is setting up a false dichotomy of it's either me, or the other guys who are worse. All the evidence points to him actually being much more corrupt. It's incredibly cynical to allow that when there might be other better options.

Just as "spend less at Doral or spend more somewhere else" may be a false dichotomy. Who said they have to spend more elsewhere? Do you have evidence?

I understand the frustration with other politicians, but choosing to overlook the sins of a politician who is likely setting all time records for political corruption is just inexplicable. Don't forget Trump's first big successes were mired in political/tax corruption. So this corruption goes back four decades. Here's an example just mentioned today in Politico. (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/10/18/trump-giuliani-ukraine-lawyer-new-york-history-friendship-229857)

Plus the timing of this is likely a distraction technique. Trump would rather us argue about the legality of what he might do than the illegality of what he has already admitted to.

The real question is what would be a bridge to far for you Trump supporters? Is there anything he could do that would shake your confidence? If he announced he was suspending the constitution tomorrow and appointing himself King to protect us from AOC, would you accept that as reasonable and acceptable? Or would that seem to be selling a false dichotomy to and destroying our system of government?

Where did I say that? My comment was that the real detail(whether accurate or not), is that its said to be done at cost...to which you respond with all these speculations about "other ways" they are making money. Which if objective, you know is bullshit because there's not enough definitive detail to make a conclusion either way there, if solely going by verifiable facts... you accuse others of changing the argument, but it is often you who does it. My point...the reporting is leaving out reportable information. And in either event, I dont care if he is or isn't making money....simple enough.
Ok. I get what you are saying. You are more focussed on the belief that there is not cash cost to the government? Is that a more important element in your argument?

At the same time you did say "Trump makes no money". So it seems you are conceding the point that there is real value in bookings at cost due the fixed cost nature of the business, you just don't care or believe it is immaterial. I think I understand now.

Sort of. I can argue whether he is or isn't, or whether there are peripheral benefits or not(or even whether those peripheral benefits would matter given he'd have them anyway once he leaves office)...What I'm saying is the outrage to me is irrelevant because the problem is systemic and has been forever and if the only outrage now is disingenuous because its Trump doing it, that solves nothing...

Ok. So as an analyst, who has proven his analytics capabilities on CoB&F (at least on the boards other than the Politics board), do you believe that booking for an extended period of time the entire resort (because they will have exclusive use of Doral and they will not book rooms or facilities elsewhere according to Mulvaney) of a struggling business with high fixed costs has some value to the Trump Organization, and therefore the Trump and his children?

LOL you just dont get it, do you? I. DONT. CARE.

And you, are only complaining, because of a not so thinly veiled hatred of Trump.

So your case can be valid or invalid and still completely meaningless to me. The larger issue is politicians, which no one seemed to be all that vocal about prior to Trump...so I give no credence to people who only now pretend to be concerned about these issues, when their primary motivating factor isn't the larger issue itself; just a politician they dont like.

Ok, so though you said "I dont think he's benefiting really at all," you have abandoned trying to defend that position and you are just going to say you don't care. So, you don't care if the President of the United States is openly and defiantly breaking the law in this respect and possibly in many other respects.

Personally, I would prefer it if our politicians were at a maximum only so corrupt that they could keep it hidden for at least a while, preferably at least until after they are out of office. If they aren't corrupt at all, even better, but if they at least would not flaunt it in our face and try to convince us everyone is corrupt, and normalize criminality, then I would be fine with it, even if that President was Trump.

"And you, are only complaining, because of a not so thinly veiled hatred of Trump." Please try to argue your points based on the merits of your arguments rather than making personal attacks. I think we all would benefit from that.

Gregmal

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Re: Refilling The Trump Swamp!
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2019, 10:00:48 AM »
Ok dude, you win. You've worn me out.

I dont know how you cant see that saying I dont care but that I dont think whatever the benefit is said to be, would be all that material to him(to which there's a 75% chance people then start trying to argue how much he's "really" worth, etc). Those two things are not concretely dependent. I do not care, and off the cuff, I'd say the benefit, if there is one, is immaterial...

And that you obviously dislike Trump, which compels most of this stuff. Not a personal attack, just an observation, which isn't exactly going out on a limb...

Done here.

Read the Footnotes

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Re: Refilling The Trump Swamp!
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2019, 04:15:47 PM »
The G-7 meeting is scheduled for June 10-12, 2020. The average high for these dates in Doral, FL is 89 degrees Fahrenheit and the average low is 76. What is worse than that though is the humidity. As they say down there, it's not the heat, it's the humidity. Here's what Weathersprark.com says about the humidity in June:

Quote
Humidity
We base the humidity comfort level on the dew point, as it determines whether perspiration will evaporate from the skin, thereby cooling the body. Lower dew points feel drier and higher dew points feel more humid. Unlike temperature, which typically varies significantly between night and day, dew point tends to change more slowly, so while the temperature may drop at night, a muggy day is typically followed by a muggy night.

The chance that a given day will be muggy in Doral is increasing during June, rising from 91% to 100% over the course of the month.

For reference, on July 16, the muggiest day of the year, there are muggy conditions 100% of the time, while on January 25, the least muggy day of the year, there are muggy conditions 28% of the time.

https://weatherspark.com/m/18599/6/Average-Weather-in-June-in-Doral-Florida-United-States#Sections-Humidity

Let's not forget that June is also the rainiest month of the year in Doral, FL. It basically rains every day in the off season.

June is the height of the off-season in Doral, FL. People with the means to not be in south Florida at that time of year tend to get out. Holding the G-7 meeting June 10-12, 2020 would fill up what would likely be an otherwise empty resort. Given that the hospitality industry has high fixed costs, a very large portion of those marginal revenues would fall to the bottom line of a struggling resort.

Ok, so what does Donald Trump think about Doral during the off-season? From his official travel record, he has spent one night at Dural during the off-season during his presidency. He stayed there after a nearby rally. He has traveled to Florida one of other time during the off-season in the last three years, and was for an event which he could not influence the scheduling of. He has made tons of trips to Mar-a-lago during his presidency, strangely none of those were during the off-season.

What about the president's golf habits? Well strangely, none of the 40 days of Presidential Florida golf were played during the off-season.

So out of the $110,000,000 of tax payer dollars spent on presidential golf, none of it was spent on off-season golf in Florida.

https://trumpgolfcount.com

I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that Doral in June is the best time and place in the entire world to hold the G-7 meeting, and that it would not enrich Trump and Co. at all.

EDIT: On the subject of weather, I forgot to mention that the event will be held during Hurricane season, which is another reason that this property with high fixed costs is likely sitting pretty empty in June.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 04:35:00 AM by Read the Footnotes »

RuleNumberOne

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Re: Refilling The Trump Swamp!
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2019, 09:53:43 PM »
Yeah, the truth is easier to remember. So here is how you remember Trump - he is the only politician whose math adds up.

Another truth easy to remember - Elizabeth's wealth tax pays for Medicare for All for just 3 weeks a year.

Trump was born rich. He had an income of $200k per year in 1949 when he was 3 years old (which in today's dollar is more than a million dollars per year).

If he shows off his properties to some junior world leaders, his voters don't care.

That is why Trump has loyal voters - they can see the difference between him and Evasive Elizabeth aka Lying Liz.
I am confused. I thought the story was that Trump was self made and that he's worth hundreds of billions of dollars now. I just can't keep this straight. The truth is so much easier to remember.

Read the Footnotes

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Re: Refilling The Trump Swamp!
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2019, 04:33:09 AM »
I think the methodology of this article is undisclosed and possibly questionable, but here's what Fox Business says about what it will cost to stay at Doral:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/how-much-does-it-cost-to-stay-trump-miami-golf-resort-g-7-summit-location

Quote
Given the security concerns and the number of rooms needed for the delegations from Britain, Japan, Germany, Canada, and Italy, the public will not have access to the facility. But if President Macron of France were to book his room today his rates could range from 374 Euros to a whopping $6,226 Euros, or $337 and $7,337 respectively.

So for $337 the leaders of the world will be treated like kings as all get a king-size bed. They can catch the news reports of their doings on their favorite news network on a 55-inch HDTV. For another $100 a night you get breakfast, $50 resort credit and self-parking, though it seems unlikely that Macron or any other leader will be using that feature.

Suites start at $487 a night and have most of the same amenities as a "regular" room,  including the Nespresso Beverage System with Espresso Coffee selection. Ironically the "global brand ambassador" for Nespresso is actor George Clooney, who is not known for his avid support of the Trump administration.

For $637 you can upgrade to a "Signature Suite."  While the other rooms offer fine Italian bed linens, here world leaders could snooze on 300-thread-count linens. But there is bad news for world leaders who are Android phone users: Music playlists can be heard on a high-end sound system,  but only through an iPod docking station.

Nothing to see here folks. Keep moving.

Also, an interesting article from Fortune notes that Doral was:
  • purchased for $150 million in 2012, 
  • with a $125 million loan from Deutsche Bank,
  • lost $2.4 million in 2014, and
  • has been reported to have had declining revenues and profits between 2015 and 2017.

This was not mentioned in the article but elsewhere there has been debate that the decline continued in 2018 and that Trump Co. arguments to the opposite were unconvincing.

The Fortune article also mentions that the last G-7 cost the French government $40 million dollars.

https://fortune.com/2019/10/18/trump-doral-g7-summit-deutsche-bank/

Though the greatest benefit would come from free advertising, it seems there is mounting evidence that hosting a major event at Doral in the off-season (also known as hurricane season) would be a major benefit to Trump and his children. This of course assumes that the event is not cancelled due to a hurricane.

RuleNumberOne

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Re: Refilling The Trump Swamp!
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2019, 09:54:11 AM »
It is good it will be hosted at Trump's resort.

Otherwise there would have been profiteering if some other entity were to host it. Trump will ensure there is no profiteering - good quality at a good price.

I wish Trump would make some money off of it though, he definitely deserves it.

It seems he has a lot of unfilled jobs in his administration, saved taxpayers a lot of money!

I think the methodology of this article is undisclosed and possibly questionable, but here's what Fox Business says about what it will cost to stay at Doral:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/how-much-does-it-cost-to-stay-trump-miami-golf-resort-g-7-summit-location

Quote
Given the security concerns and the number of rooms needed for the delegations from Britain, Japan, Germany, Canada, and Italy, the public will not have access to the facility. But if President Macron of France were to book his room today his rates could range from 374 Euros to a whopping $6,226 Euros, or $337 and $7,337 respectively.

So for $337 the leaders of the world will be treated like kings as all get a king-size bed. They can catch the news reports of their doings on their favorite news network on a 55-inch HDTV. For another $100 a night you get breakfast, $50 resort credit and self-parking, though it seems unlikely that Macron or any other leader will be using that feature.

Suites start at $487 a night and have most of the same amenities as a "regular" room,  including the Nespresso Beverage System with Espresso Coffee selection. Ironically the "global brand ambassador" for Nespresso is actor George Clooney, who is not known for his avid support of the Trump administration.

For $637 you can upgrade to a "Signature Suite."  While the other rooms offer fine Italian bed linens, here world leaders could snooze on 300-thread-count linens. But there is bad news for world leaders who are Android phone users: Music playlists can be heard on a high-end sound system,  but only through an iPod docking station.

Nothing to see here folks. Keep moving.

Also, an interesting article from Fortune notes that Doral was:
  • purchased for $150 million in 2012, 
  • with a $125 million loan from Deutsche Bank,
  • lost $2.4 million in 2014, and
  • has been reported to have had declining revenues and profits between 2015 and 2017.

This was not mentioned in the article but elsewhere there has been debate that the decline continued in 2018 and that Trump Co. arguments to the opposite were unconvincing.

The Fortune article also mentions that the last G-7 cost the French government $40 million dollars.

https://fortune.com/2019/10/18/trump-doral-g7-summit-deutsche-bank/

Though the greatest benefit would come from free advertising, it seems there is mounting evidence that hosting a major event at Doral in the off-season (also known as hurricane season) would be a major benefit to Trump and his children. This of course assumes that the event is not cancelled due to a hurricane.

Gregmal

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Re: Refilling The Trump Swamp!
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2019, 09:11:18 AM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/19/trump-says-doral-miami-resort-now-will-not-host-g-7-summit.html

Perhaps now the children can focus their attention to other oh so pressing matters.... Its not surprising how distorted this story became given the media landscape and Trump animosity. Everyone seemed to have their own definitions of "no profit" and "zero cost to the USA"...

stahleyp

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Re: Refilling The Trump Swamp!
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2019, 09:26:37 AM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/19/trump-says-doral-miami-resort-now-will-not-host-g-7-summit.html

Perhaps now the children can focus their attention to other oh so pressing matters.... Its not surprising how distorted this story became given the media landscape and Trump animosity. Everyone seemed to have their own definitions of "no profit" and "zero cost to the USA"...

I think it would have been a very smart move to have it for free. Sure he might lose several million but it would've built a ton of goodwill and helped his brand, I would think.
Paul