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General Category => Politics => Topic started by: Read the Footnotes on July 13, 2020, 02:48:15 AM

Title: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on July 13, 2020, 02:48:15 AM
Some really moving stories here:

https://rvat.org/
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 13, 2020, 05:02:57 AM
Can we get moving stories of Democrats voting for Trump?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 14, 2020, 01:08:21 PM
Well why don't you find some and post them?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 14, 2020, 02:13:06 PM
There are lots of Republicans that can't stand Trump. Just ask Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush and John Kasich - they are easy to find.
Trump became a marked man when he torched the 2016 Republican primary against 19 terrific candidates, several
which would have made good Presidents.

Unlike these geniuses, Trump figured out what the people wanted, captured the media and destroyed all of them.

The man has lots of enemies in the Republican Party.

But the public figured out that Trump cares about THEM far more than deep state politicos, who owe their souls to lobbyists and special interests
in Washington.

The man is a genius - and looks like he will do it again.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: gfp on July 14, 2020, 02:39:28 PM
...
The man is a genius - and looks like he will do it again.

You really think he will win re-election?  I get that polls showed Clinton beating him at this point as well but he seems a bit distracted or something.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 14, 2020, 02:44:20 PM
...
The man is a genius - and looks like he will do it again.

You really think he will win re-election?  I get that polls showed Clinton beating him at this point as well but he seems a bit distracted or something.

It's gonna be a battle - but don't count the "silent majority" out - all those folks appalled at the despicable antics of the LEFT.

In my mind, this election is about Law and Order , and the American way of Life.  Law and Order will win, because Biden is nothing but a front for the LEFT and this summer proves what they are all about.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 14, 2020, 04:24:51 PM
“But the public figured out that Trump cares about THEM...”
Perhaps you haven’t ever heard him talk, but it is pretty obvious that Trump cares only about Trump. Period.

“The man is a genius ...”

Yes, not only that but he is a “very stable genius”. We know this because he told us and we believe him because he would never, never lie. Right?

However, this “very stable genius” who “knows more than the generals” and ignores all of his own health experts, but who still “...cares about them...” has stood idly by with his head stuck firmly in the sand while nearly 140,000 of “them” have died. And 37 states are seeing increasing numbers of Covid 19.

Of course if the country would just stop testing it would all “just go away”.

But of course, this is all the fault of the LEFT.

We need more Law and Order, respect traditional values, more policing. 

But this sounds familiar, where have we heard this before?

Oh yes...

“... Adolf Hitler posed as a champion of law and order, claiming he would uphold traditional German values. The police and many other conservatives looked forward to the extension of police power promised by a strong centralized state, welcomed the end of factional politics, and agreed to end democracy.”


“THOSE THAT DENY THEIR HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT!”
Tweet by Donald Trump, June 11, 2020.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on July 14, 2020, 04:37:49 PM
Law and order bwahahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p00fxoDpaIo
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 14, 2020, 04:53:46 PM

Of course if the country would just stop testing it would all “just go away”.

But of course, this is all the fault of the LEFT.

If America banned scales no Americans would be fat anymore! 🤣

Scales are a hoax propagated by the LEFT! Also those libtards with the gravity. This one is tricky. Who do we put cross-hairs on? Newton or Einstein? I know a lot want to go with Einstein. But I say Newton. He was the original sinner, apple and all.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: dwy000 on July 14, 2020, 05:55:39 PM
There are lots of Republicans that can't stand Trump. Just ask Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush and John Kasich - they are easy to find.
Trump became a marked man when he torched the 2016 Republican primary against 19 terrific candidates, several
which would have made good Presidents.

Unlike these geniuses, Trump figured out what the people wanted, captured the media and destroyed all of them.

The man has lots of enemies in the Republican Party.

But the public figured out that Trump cares about THEM far more than deep state politicos, who owe their souls to lobbyists and special interests
in Washington.

The man is a genius - and looks like he will do it again.

Anybody who watched today's "press conference" (aka rambling, incoherent diatribe) could not use the word genius to describe Trump.  That was just...indescribable.  even Bret Baier was flabbergasted.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 14, 2020, 06:50:11 PM
Aaaa, you mean like this insightful commentary...

“We have great agreements where when Biden and Obama used to bring killers out, they would say don’t bring them back to our country, we don’t want them. Well, we have to, we don’t want them. they wouldn’t take them. Now with us, they take them. Someday, I’ll tell you why. Someday, I’ll tell you why. But they take them and they take them very gladly. They used to bring them out and they wouldn’t even let the airplanes land if they brought them back by airplanes. They wouldn’t let the buses into their country. They said we don’t want them. Said no, but they entered our country illegally and they’re murderers, they’re killers in some cases.”

Wonder if those airplanes took off from these airports in the 1770's....
“Our army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over the airports, it did everything it had to do, and at Fort McHenry, under the rockets’ red glare, it had nothing but victory,”

Some genius.

Note how Trump supporters here always disappear when confronted with facts?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Jurgis on July 14, 2020, 10:03:13 PM
Law and order bwahahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p00fxoDpaIo

THEY ARE SO WRONG!

ROGER STONE IS NOT A CRIMINAL! (anymore)

*Sponsored by Donnie Donnie & Donnie for erection of Donnie
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on July 15, 2020, 08:43:28 AM
Their YouTube page is also a good resource

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC03-Q9vq-JyiStTnqasADVg
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 15, 2020, 04:59:04 PM
There are lots of Republicans that can't stand Trump. Just ask Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush and John Kasich - they are easy to find.
Trump became a marked man when he torched the 2016 Republican primary against 19 terrific candidates, several
which would have made good Presidents.

Unlike these geniuses, Trump figured out what the people wanted, captured the media and destroyed all of them.

The man has lots of enemies in the Republican Party.

But the public figured out that Trump cares about THEM far more than deep state politicos, who owe their souls to lobbyists and special interests
in Washington.

The man is a genius - and looks like he will do it again.

Anybody who watched today's "press conference" (aka rambling, incoherent diatribe) could not use the word genius to describe Trump.  That was just...indescribable.  even Bret Baier was flabbergasted.


what you're missing is that many Americans likes the way the man communicates with them. He's not much of a politician - and they like that.

The voters that will swing this election are Joe and Mary Six-pack. They trust him - just say he's a great salesman. You may find them deplorables, just like Hillary did. That's why Biden will lose.

If Trump gets 20-30% of the Black vote - Biden is done. I think it's gonna happen.

Very few citizens want the lawlessness we've been seeing - and the deplorables know Trump will end it, just as sure as the Dems won't.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 15, 2020, 05:05:26 PM
You think Trump is gonna take 20-30 percent of the black vote against Joe Biden?

Please send me some of the stuff you're smoking. It's really good shit!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Jurgis on July 15, 2020, 05:11:07 PM
You think Trump is gonna take 20-30 percent of the black vote against Joe Biden?

Please send me some of the stuff you're smoking. It's really good shit!

Black people will vote for person of color!

Go Agent Orange!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 15, 2020, 05:16:40 PM
You think Trump is gonna take 20-30 percent of the black vote against Joe Biden?

Please send me some of the stuff you're smoking. It's really good shit!

I smoked it all.

He took 9% of the black vote in 2016. We will see.

There are a lot of pissed off independents around - and they are horrified by the last few months. They are not gonna vote for Biden and anarchy.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 15, 2020, 05:28:04 PM
"There are a lot of pissed off independents around - and they are horrified by the last few months."

That is very true. They are very pissed off and they are horrified over what they have seen in the last few months. Over 135,000 dead and climbing and you think they are going to blame Joe Biden? Are you delusional? News Flash: Donnie Trump has supposedly been in charge of the nation, not Joe Biden.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on July 15, 2020, 05:39:08 PM
"There are a lot of pissed off independents around - and they are horrified by the last few months."

That is very true. They are very pissed off and they are horrified over what they have seen in the last few months. Over 135,000 dead and climbing and you think they are going to blame Joe Biden? Are you delusional? News Flash: Donnie Trump has supposedly been in charge of the nation, not Joe Biden.

I think most rationale people realize that the blame game with a virus is absurd, and that there are many factors and people involved, everywhere. Who is to blame for the 25 year olds refusing to social distance? The people seeking out bars? Do you want to break out % ownership of the 130k deaths in terms of responsibility? What about the mayors, governors, etc who "might" have the authority to impose life saving policy as well?

While I wouldn't exactly condone Trumps behavior during this thing, his behavior has more or less been the same as it always is. Somewhat childish, and focused on winning vs, in this case, maybe providing better leadership and leading by example. But assuming the average independent or person views "the coronavirus" as some death knell for Trump, is flawed. I thought for sure he was done after "grab em by the pussy". But the truth is that people realize what the media does and they realize the same Never Trump Republicans who fought him 2016 will again start drumming up noise and vocally denouncing him. Its the same setup as in 2016.

That said, I think voting for Trump may end up being in vein. Given all the above and the fact that the guy could cure cancer and still have a bunch of whinny bitches on Twitter blasting him, I just dont see a way a Trump victory brings about the necessary changes to the greater fabric of America. Which then begs the question, if you cant win the game, why play it?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 15, 2020, 05:52:43 PM
Leadership comes from the top. So far that has largely been non-existent.

Demand bars be closed, masks be mandated, etc, don’t hold public rallies, refuse to wear a mask, belittle states for not opening up quick enough, etc, etc. The majority of people are not stupid.

Don't know how you can be sympathetic for him, but if you are suggesting he will quit, one can only hope he will do everyone a favor and pick up his toys and go home.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on July 15, 2020, 06:30:48 PM
Leadership comes from the top. So far that has largely been non-existent.

Demand bars be closed, masks be mandated, etc, don’t hold public rallies, refuse to wear a mask, belittle states for not opening up quick enough, etc, etc. The majority of people are not stupid.

Don't know how you can be sympathetic for him, but if you are suggesting he will quit, one can only hope he will do everyone a favor and pick up his toys and go home.

He doesn’t have the authority to mandate those things. Just like he can’t mandate states re-open. Yeah, Trump is a bad leader during tough times. But can you honestly look at Joe Biden and think. Man, if he were in charge I would be way more confident in our leadership?

The debates will certainly be interesting. You’ll have Donny throwing out insults and name calling and you’ll have Joe forgetting forgetting what year it is and walking out of frame.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 15, 2020, 07:25:38 PM
Well you have 130,000 people dead of Covid-19.
Yet today and Trump has nothing better to do than take time to pose in the Oval Office with the desk full of canned freaking beans to advertise a private company’s product - in the White House no less.
Can’t see old Joe doing that.
Castanza if you were running against Trump I would vote for you in a heartbeat over Trump, because a) you would put the country before your personal interests, b) no matter how much you lied you could never beat Trump’s record and c) you seem to be a reasonable rational human being. Now about your tax returns...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: ERICOPOLY on July 15, 2020, 07:57:22 PM
There are a lot of pissed off independents around - and they are horrified by the last few months. They are not gonna vote for Biden and anarchy.

It wouldn't have happened under Trump's watch.  When Trump is in charge, that kind of stuff like we've been seeing just doesn't happen.  So vote for Trump, so it will keep on not happening.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 15, 2020, 08:07:08 PM
There are a lot of pissed off independents around - and they are horrified by the last few months. They are not gonna vote for Biden and anarchy.

It wouldn't have happened under Trump's watch.  When Trump is in charge, that kind of stuff like we've been seeing just doesn't happen.  So vote for Trump, so it will keep on not happening.

How many "block parties" happened with conservative mayors?  ;D
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Packer16 on July 16, 2020, 05:57:04 AM
My concern here is Joe Biden can & is worse than a tuna sandwich. He has probably been on the wrong side of more political issues than anyone alive. As a member of the Senate & VP that was fine but as a decision maker he may be the second coming of Jimmy Carter.  Trump is a fool & does not know how to present himself well in a number of cases but he follows the correct policies in the majority of the cases for the issues that the federal government is responsible for, namely taxes & the Cold War w China. Good ole Joe has better press & has more progressive views on issues the federal government is not responsible for.  China will walk all over Joe (he probably does not realize we are at war) & increasing taxes to subsidize an industry that already has an economic advantage, renewables, is a multi-trillion dollar bonfire. If the Dems had a better choice, Trump would not have a chance but somehow they picked one of the only guys/gals that can give Trump a fighting chance.

Packer
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 16, 2020, 07:01:19 AM
My concern here is Joe Biden can & is worse than a tuna sandwich. He has probably been on the wrong side of more political issues than anyone alive. As a member of the Senate & VP that was fine but as a decision maker he may be the second coming of Jimmy Carter.  Trump is a fool & does not know how to present himself well in a number of cases but he follows the correct policies in the majority of the cases for the issues that the federal government is responsible for, namely taxes & the Cold War w China. Good ole Joe has better press & has more progressive views on issues the federal government is not responsible for.  China will walk all over Joe (he probably does not realize we are at war) & increasing taxes to subsidize an industry that already has an economic advantage, renewables, is a multi-trillion dollar bonfire. If the Dems had a better choice, Trump would not have a chance but somehow they picked one of the only guys/gals that can give Trump a fighting chance.

Packer

Agree here. I would like to vote against Trump but I'm certainly not going to vote for Biden. I would prefer someone who would fight off against the far left - not bend to them.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: dwy000 on July 16, 2020, 07:40:35 AM
My concern here is Joe Biden can & is worse than a tuna sandwich. He has probably been on the wrong side of more political issues than anyone alive. As a member of the Senate & VP that was fine but as a decision maker he may be the second coming of Jimmy Carter.  Trump is a fool & does not know how to present himself well in a number of cases but he follows the correct policies in the majority of the cases for the issues that the federal government is responsible for, namely taxes & the Cold War w China. Good ole Joe has better press & has more progressive views on issues the federal government is not responsible for.  China will walk all over Joe (he probably does not realize we are at war) & increasing taxes to subsidize an industry that already has an economic advantage, renewables, is a multi-trillion dollar bonfire. If the Dems had a better choice, Trump would not have a chance but somehow they picked one of the only guys/gals that can give Trump a fighting chance.

Packer

There hasn't been an election in history where people have not complained about the lack of good options. That's a cop out.

Trump spins, lies and blisters.  He stomps all over the constitution and runs things like his personal playground - making the country the laughingstock of the world. That could be brushed off in normal times (as it was for 3 yesrs) but when crisis hits you need some substance and leadership.  Not only is Trump worse than a cheese sandwich in that regard, he has systematically dismantled, fired or undermined anyone of quality in the admin who could step up.  Geez he is now trying to discredit Fauci!!!  I mean seriously.. Even his own people cant believe what a joke he is and incompetent. 

Biden may not be your cup of tea but he is 4 years max and better than Trump by any stretch. And I'm normally (used to be) a Republican.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: ERICOPOLY on July 16, 2020, 08:18:27 AM
There are a lot of pissed off independents around - and they are horrified by the last few months. They are not gonna vote for Biden and anarchy.

It wouldn't have happened under Trump's watch.  When Trump is in charge, that kind of stuff like we've been seeing just doesn't happen.  So vote for Trump, so it will keep on not happening.

How many "block parties" happened with conservative mayors?  ;D

There are no mayors of any stripe running for President.  Your point shows that Biden vs Trump has no impact on whether there be 'anarchy' or not.  Although certainly Trump encouraged it with his agitations.

What matters is the issues within the scope of POTUS, and in that arena Trump lays down and takes it from Putin, Xi, Erdogan, and Kim.  Read it from a die-hard conservative who was In The Room Where It Happened.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 16, 2020, 08:58:47 AM
If this is what the left offers, then I'll take my chances with Trump:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/may/9/california-kindergarten-gender-identity-talks-sex-/

https://www.startribune.com/connecticut-transgender-policy-found-to-violate-title-ix/570830222/


Like I said, I have never voted for Republican presidential candidate and Trump is the worst one but when the left tries to push their agenda on my kids, I'm not going to stand for it.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 16, 2020, 09:16:45 AM
Trump is not only incompetent, but anyone with even a basic knowledge of psychology can see he displays textbook cases of several psychological disorders.

As a deal maker he is destined to failure as other world leaders no longer trust his lies and bluster only goes so far. World leaders laugh behind his back. He is a clown.

His handling of Covid-19 has exposed his incompetence. He let his narcism get in the way and was unable to foresee Covid’s devastating effect on the country.

Then there is the corruption. A vote for Trump is a vote for corruption. When he becomes Mr. Trump once again, he will be very, very lucky not to spend the rest of his days in the crowbar hotel.
                                 
He has intentionally pissed off nearly every single traditional ally. Have you not seen his embarrassing and pathetic efforts to suck up to Kim, Putin, Xi, Erdogan, etc? That’s worked well right? Hey Donnie, wanna buy a bridge?

And now this ‘world leader’ is flogging canned freaking beans from the Oval Office while the country faces a chaotic epidemic that has killed 140,000 citizens? Shows his priorities.

How could anyone not be embarrassed to admit they would support this buffoon? Just look at the number Republicans who not only refuse to support Trump, but are actually supporting the Democratic candidate.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 16, 2020, 09:39:15 AM
How could anyone not be embarrassed to admit they would support this buffoon? Just look at the number Republicans who not only refuse to support Trump, but are actually supporting the Democratic candidate.
Tax cuts.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 16, 2020, 09:43:26 AM
How could anyone not be embarrassed to admit they would support this buffoon? Just look at the number Republicans who not only refuse to support Trump, but are actually supporting the Democratic candidate.
Tax cuts.

Yes, that is the impression I am getting. Some would sell their soul to make a buck. No concern for others, the future, or their country. Sad.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 16, 2020, 09:55:07 AM
How could anyone not be embarrassed to admit they would support this buffoon? Just look at the number Republicans who not only refuse to support Trump, but are actually supporting the Democratic candidate.
Tax cuts.

Yes, that is the impression I am getting. Some would sell their soul to make a buck. No concern for others, the future, or their country. Sad.

Or perhaps we reject the intolerance of the left?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Jurgis on July 16, 2020, 10:04:52 AM
How could anyone not be embarrassed to admit they would support this buffoon? Just look at the number Republicans who not only refuse to support Trump, but are actually supporting the Democratic candidate.
Tax cuts.
Supreme Court.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 16, 2020, 10:09:17 AM
How could anyone not be embarrassed to admit they would support this buffoon? Just look at the number Republicans who not only refuse to support Trump, but are actually supporting the Democratic candidate.
Tax cuts.

Yes, that is the impression I am getting. Some would sell their soul to make a buck. No concern for others, the future, or their country. Sad.

Or perhaps we reject the intolerance of the left?

Yes perhaps you hit the nail on the head. Tolerance.

It would appear that the Right has the tolerance to allow 140,000 (and about to explode) of their citizens die. And you think that tolerance is just a great thing?

But you should get your act together. Your last post was criticizing the left for being TOO tolerant on gender. So which is it?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Jurgis on July 16, 2020, 10:11:33 AM
How could anyone not be embarrassed to admit they would support this buffoon? Just look at the number Republicans who not only refuse to support Trump, but are actually supporting the Democratic candidate.
Tax cuts.
Supreme Court.
also Electrolytes!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 16, 2020, 10:19:27 AM
You know that's why Republicans are so psyched about judges. Because they want a more tolerant judiciary.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 16, 2020, 10:22:36 AM
You know that's why Republicans are so psyched about judges. Because they want a more tolerant judiciary.

Well Trump would certainly like that.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 16, 2020, 10:31:33 AM
How could anyone not be embarrassed to admit they would support this buffoon? Just look at the number Republicans who not only refuse to support Trump, but are actually supporting the Democratic candidate.
Tax cuts.

Yes, that is the impression I am getting. Some would sell their soul to make a buck. No concern for others, the future, or their country. Sad.

Or perhaps we reject the intolerance of the left?

Yes perhaps you hit the nail on the head. Tolerance.

It would appear that the Right has the tolerance to allow 140,000 (and about to explode) of their citizens die. And you think that tolerance is just a great thing?

But you should get your act together. Your last post was criticizing the left for being TOO tolerant on gender. So which is it?

Isn't allowing people the freedom to choose part of tolerance?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/19/exclusive-man-tried-to-share-his-regrets-about-transgender-life-youtube-censored-it/

Yes, yes, I know tolerance is only allowed if you agree with it. ;)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on July 16, 2020, 10:33:12 AM
How could anyone not be embarrassed to admit they would support this buffoon? Just look at the number Republicans who not only refuse to support Trump, but are actually supporting the Democratic candidate.
Tax cuts.
Supreme Court.
also Electrolytes!
Hydroxychloroquine! It's got what plants crave.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqIJZeeXEc
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 16, 2020, 10:36:08 AM
You know that's why Republicans are so psyched about judges. Because they want a more tolerant judiciary.

Well Trump would certainly like that.
LOL! That's funny!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 16, 2020, 10:36:45 AM
How could anyone not be embarrassed to admit they would support this buffoon? Just look at the number Republicans who not only refuse to support Trump, but are actually supporting the Democratic candidate.
Tax cuts.

Yes, that is the impression I am getting. Some would sell their soul to make a buck. No concern for others, the future, or their country. Sad.

Or perhaps we reject the intolerance of the left?

Yes perhaps you hit the nail on the head. Tolerance.

It would appear that the Right has the tolerance to allow 140,000 (and about to explode) of their citizens die. And you think that tolerance is just a great thing?

But you should get your act together. Your last post was criticizing the left for being TOO tolerant on gender. So which is it?

Isn't allowing people the freedom to choose part of tolerance?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/19/exclusive-man-tried-to-share-his-regrets-about-transgender-life-youtube-censored-it/

Yes, yes, I know tolerance is only allowed if you agree with it. ;)
You know that's not affected by who's in the White House right?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 16, 2020, 11:14:21 AM
How could anyone not be embarrassed to admit they would support this buffoon? Just look at the number Republicans who not only refuse to support Trump, but are actually supporting the Democratic candidate.
Tax cuts.

Yes, that is the impression I am getting. Some would sell their soul to make a buck. No concern for others, the future, or their country. Sad.

Or perhaps we reject the intolerance of the left?

Yes perhaps you hit the nail on the head. Tolerance.

It would appear that the Right has the tolerance to allow 140,000 (and about to explode) of their citizens die. And you think that tolerance is just a great thing?

But you should get your act together. Your last post was criticizing the left for being TOO tolerant on gender. So which is it?

Isn't allowing people the freedom to choose part of tolerance?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/19/exclusive-man-tried-to-share-his-regrets-about-transgender-life-youtube-censored-it/

Yes, yes, I know tolerance is only allowed if you agree with it. ;)
You know that's not affected by who's in the White House right?

It actually is impacted by it (and by extension the Supreme Court).

Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act allows for these social media companies to be considered "platforms" instead of "publishers." That designation allows them to avoid liability. However, since they are censoring views they don't like, they're really more like publishers. It's a total scam.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 16, 2020, 11:18:50 AM
Sure. Good luck with that one.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 16, 2020, 11:44:27 AM
More of that tolerance:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-teen-led-a-black-lives-matter-protest-in-his-small-town-a-cross-was-burned-in-his-yard/2020/07/15/6ea6e3d2-c1ef-11ea-b178-bb7b05b94af1_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 16, 2020, 12:06:36 PM
More of that tolerance:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-teen-led-a-black-lives-matter-protest-in-his-small-town-a-cross-was-burned-in-his-yard/2020/07/15/6ea6e3d2-c1ef-11ea-b178-bb7b05b94af1_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Are you trying to compare this to the banned video?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 16, 2020, 12:08:15 PM
No, just pondering about those tolerant people that burn crosses and such.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 16, 2020, 12:14:58 PM
No, just pondering about those tolerant people that burn crosses and such.

I don't know the political affiliation of these people. Do you?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 16, 2020, 12:17:14 PM
I think they're Jill Stein's people.  ;D
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on July 16, 2020, 12:35:53 PM
Trump is not only incompetent, but anyone with even a basic knowledge of psychology can see he displays textbook cases of several psychological disorders.

As a deal maker he is destined to failure as other world leaders no longer trust his lies and bluster only goes so far. World leaders laugh behind his back. He is a clown.

His handling of Covid-19 has exposed his incompetence. He let his narcism get in the way and was unable to foresee Covid’s devastating effect on the country.

Then there is the corruption. A vote for Trump is a vote for corruption. When he becomes Mr. Trump once again, he will be very, very lucky not to spend the rest of his days in the crowbar hotel.
                                 
He has intentionally pissed off nearly every single traditional ally. Have you not seen his embarrassing and pathetic efforts to suck up to Kim, Putin, Xi, Erdogan, etc? That’s worked well right? Hey Donnie, wanna buy a bridge?

And now this ‘world leader’ is flogging canned freaking beans from the Oval Office while the country faces a chaotic epidemic that has killed 140,000 citizens? Shows his priorities.

How could anyone not be embarrassed to admit they would support this buffoon? Just look at the number Republicans who not only refuse to support Trump, but are actually supporting the Democratic candidate.

I think you are doing yourself a disservice, as well as taking away merit from many of the legitimate criticism you have, by continually perpetuating narratives that are either lazy, or intentionally dishonest(or both).

You continue to suggest things that are easily verifiable as wrong, and something any half intelligent or non biased party could dispel as partisan nonsense, in a matter of seconds.

For instance, you repeatedly suggest Trump/Republicans are responsible/OK with 140k deaths...

However, beyond Rachel Maddows headlines, a quick look into this raises questions that Ive asked and you've ducked many times. How do you break down % of responsibility here? Also, look at hotspot locations...NYC, South FL, Houston, LA... is Trump/Republicans really the driving force here? Or do others have a role(likely a bigger one at that) as well? Those places, make up the bulk of the cases, and deaths. Whatever you conclude, saying "Trump/Republicans" alone, are responsible, or the most responsible for this, is preposterous bordering on ludicrous.

Second, you have regularly trumpeted 140K(and growing number) as a lot. But multiple it by 10 and its still a fraction of 1% of the population. We are "supposedly" facing a once in a century pandemic. Its tragic, but if the end result is a fraction of one percent(again, we're currently not even close) end up perishing, I mean, its not great, but also hardly the greatest tragedy in human history, at least if you remove emotion from the equation. Then factor in the high majority of those deaths are people with likely less than 10 years of expected life remaining....

Which brings to #3....the majority of the "deaths" Trump/Republicans you claim are responsible for, occur in nursing homes! Now, is Trump responsible for local government or private business handling of its nursing homes? LOL get the F outta here.

You have legit "concerns" about leadership, but whereas Ive given solid examples of Trumps failures, you've largely cited shallow headline rhetoric. For instance,
You complain that he could have promoted masks earlier? How many others failed here as well? But regardless, lets look at the real facts here, rather than the CNN narrative. Liberals dont listen to Trump, period... Most Republicans think for themselves, as do independents. So maybe you have 20-30% of the Republican base who blindly follow Trump, IE maybe 5-10% of the US population. You're really asserting that THESE PEOPLE WEARING MASKS WOULD HAVE SIGNIFCANTLY SHIFTED THE COURSE OF THIS THING? LOL WTF, come on dude...forget that the majority of these people dont live in areas of high density and major COVID risk.

Or that Trump/Republicans are responsible for all the 20 something year olds running around ignoring social distancing?

You also said he could have "shut everything down"....

Except, the federal government DOES NOT have the authority to do this. And its questionable even if the states do. But if its done, it has to be done by the states, not federal. Another easily verifiable, hole in a lazy, bs narrative driven argument you continue to make.

Further, on shutdowns, as things become clearer, its largely evident that this virus is very bad for a very small part of the population, but for most, de minimus, even bordering on a giant nothing burger. You want to shut down the country for this? LOL again, come the fuck on dude.

You have a high quality assessment from Packer, and then literally crickets from the usual mouthpieces, or one word/sentence responses of low intelligence. Which is continuously how these conversations go. You at least, seem to put some thought into it and do address legitimate issues. But you're doing yourself a disservice by constantly littering those legitimate issues with shallow, narrative driven partisan crap. I was part of a proxy fight once. One of the largest dissident shareholders was a brilliant guy, who was spot on about his assessments of the major issues at the company. The problem, is that he was also massively petty and nitpicky. Purposely oppositional to the point where he become viewed as unstable and even wrong. Everything down to "shareholders should vote against approval of the auditor"(for no reason at all). Well, his points became lost amongst all his incessant ramblings and he lost the proxy fight. The same comparison holds true with regard to your consistent emotional raging and support of many of the the above mentioned, easily verifiable as false, headline driven narratives.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 16, 2020, 03:37:02 PM
Greg, as I am in the middle of painting my garage floor I am unable to give your comments the time they deserve, but I will try to cover a few ...

I think you are doing yourself a disservice, as well as taking away merit from many of the legitimate criticism you have, by continually perpetuating narratives that are either lazy, or intentionally dishonest(or both).

You continue to suggest things that are easily verifiable as wrong, and something any half intelligent or non biased party could dispel as partisan nonsense, in a matter of seconds.

For instance, you repeatedly suggest Trump/Republicans are responsible/OK with 140k deaths...

The only problem I have with Republicans (other than Trump) is that too many of them simply capitulated to Trump rather than stand up for the public.

However, beyond Rachel Maddows headlines, a quick look into this raises questions that Ive asked and you've ducked many times. How do you break down % of responsibility here? Also, look at hotspot locations...NYC, South FL, Houston, LA... is Trump/Republicans really the driving force here? Or do others have a role(likely a bigger one at that) as well? Those places, make up the bulk of the cases, and deaths. Whatever you conclude, saying "Trump/Republicans" alone, are responsible, or the most responsible for this, is preposterous bordering on ludicrous.

The problem with Trump is that he has shown no leadership. He is expected to set an example. Do you support his childish refusal to wear a mask? How about his implementing reasonable guidelines and immediately trying to shame states into ignoring them. “Liberate Michigan”. But he does this all the time, he says the popular thing and then and then immediately negates it so no matter how thing turn out he can always go back and say, see I told you so. Most people realize this now.                    

Second, you have regularly trumpeted 140K(and growing number) as a lot. But multiple it by 10 and its still a fraction of 1% of the population. We are "supposedly" facing a once in a century pandemic. Its tragic, but if the end result is a fraction of one percent(again, we're currently not even close) end up perishing, I mean, its not great, but also hardly the greatest tragedy in human history, at least if you remove emotion from the equation. Then factor in the high majority of those deaths are people with likely less than 10 years of expected life remaining....

It is a lot. The problem with this is the fact that the US number of dead - on a per capita basis - is far higher than most other developed nations.
You also seem to ignore the fact that the after effects of Covid 19 are as yet unknown. Unlike the Flu, many people who have “recovered” are having lung and heart problems among other after serious effects - and now people are coming down with it for a second time. How many people are going to end up permanently disabled? And many of these people are not senior citizens or people with pre-existing conditions. What will this do to the future of health care? When you say “...the high majority of those deaths are people with likely less than 10 years of expected life remaining...” I absolutely guarantee that when you reach that age you will feel differently.


Which brings to #3....the majority of the "deaths" Trump/Republicans you claim are responsible for, occur in nursing homes! Now, is Trump responsible for local government or private business handling of its nursing homes? LOL get the F outta here.

You talk as though the epidemic was over. We may yet have a long way to go. and while 140,000 deaths may not concern you, where do you draw the line - double, triple this amount? You have been trying to downplay this epidemic right since the start and have continuously been wrong. How do you know that once it kills off all the seniors (which to you is just collateral damage) it may then start killing off younger people? How many presently healthy people may become disabled in one way or another. As the numbers of sick increase, don’t you realize it may effect the food train, general health care, policing, etc, etc.  Picking out nursing home deaths is simply a distraction from the real problem of lack of leadership from the top. “This is just going to go away”, “we have it completely under control”, etc.  Or as you yourself have stated in the past “... this is basically the flu.”, “...of course it needs to be minimized...”. And in January you stated “ I’ll be concerned when I can no longer count on one hand the number of death in one specific state. Or maybe collectively hear about a few dozen deaths in America". After 140,000 deaths. Are you concerned yet?

You have legit "concerns" about leadership, but whereas Ive given solid examples of Trumps failures, you've largely cited shallow headline rhetoric. For instance,
You complain that he could have promoted masks earlier? How many others failed here as well? But regardless, lets look at the real facts here, rather than the CNN narrative. Liberals dont listen to Trump, period... Most Republicans think for themselves, as do independents. So maybe you have 20-30% of the Republican base who blindly follow Trump, IE maybe 5-10% of the US population. You're really asserting that THESE PEOPLE WEARING MASKS WOULD HAVE SIGNIFCANTLY SHIFTED THE COURSE OF THIS THING? LOL WTF, come on dude...forget that the majority of these people dont live in areas of high density and major COVID risk.

Absolutely. Masks will reduce the spread. This ain’t rocket science - of course the White House doesn’t put much faith in science. It is pretty bad when government abdicates its responsibility to Publix, Walmart, CVS, Target, Kroger, Kohl’s, Best Buy, etc. to require the public wear masks. Meanwhile the President poses for an ad for canned beans from the Oval Office!


Or that Trump/Republicans are responsible for all the 20 something year olds running around ignoring social distancing?

You also said he could have "shut everything down"....

When did I ever say that?

Except, the federal government does have the authority to do this. And its questionable even if the states do. But if its done, it has to be done by the states, not federal. Another easily verifiable, hole in a lazy, bs narrative driven argument you continue to make.

Further, on shutdowns, as things become clearer, its largely evident that this virus is very bad for a very small part of the population, but for most, de minimus, even bordering on a giant nothing burger. You want to shut down the country for this? LOL again, come the fuck on dude.

You have a high quality assessment from Packer, and then literally crickets from the usual mouthpieces, or one word/sentence responses of low intelligence. Which is continuously how these conversations go. You at least, seem to put some thought into it and do address legitimate issues. But you're doing yourself a disservice by constantly littering those legitimate issues with shallow, narrative driven partisan crap. I was part of a proxy fight once. One of the largest dissident shareholders was a brilliant guy, who was spot on about his assessments of the major issues at the company. The problem, is that he was also massively petty and nitpicky. Purposely oppositional to the point where he become viewed as unstable and even wrong. Everything down to "shareholders should vote against approval of the auditor"(for no reason at all). Well, his points became lost amongst all his incessant ramblings and he lost the proxy fight. The same comparison holds true with regard to your consistent emotional raging and support of many of the the above mentioned, easily verifiable as false, headline driven narratives.

Look, I wouldn't take the time to respond to you if I didn't think you are a reasonably rational person, but I cannot understand your constant defence of the buffoon in the White House, but answer me this. If the Trump administration is doing such a wonderful job why does the U.S account for 25-30% of world wide Covid deaths while accounting for jut 4% of world population?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on July 16, 2020, 04:01:52 PM
Well good luck with the painting. My home improvement activity and motivation for such things has skyrocketed the last few months.

A few points.

Many, regardless of what side you are on, view this as an us vs them thing. A big problem here. I think stahleyp or Castanza is a good example of someone not thrilled by Trump, but look at the option of what they perceive as the "other side", and... well.

I've agreed on the lack of leadership. When you become president, the strategy should shift from "winning" in the papers and headlines, to winning on the field. Trump has tried in many places, but failed remarkably in others. There's many reasons and factors, some his fault, some arent, but the results at the end of the day are certainly a mixed bag and during times of needed unity, he is probably the last person you want in charge of handling that task.

I agree re: Trump on facemasks. Liberate Michigan was again, putting "winning" politically, above uniting. I'm sure some of you noticed, mid hysteria in March, Trump actually got real quiet, started taking the virus seriously, but then once he saw there was offshoots of support from his base for "taking the other side" of what he perceived as a "democrat" issue...he went the other way unfortunately.

Re: virus...Indeed, I have downplayed a lot of it, most of which is influenced by what I perceive as its effects on the markets and through an economic lens, not a humanitarian one. I think there was obviously a major overreaction originally, huge lack of information(which is why, by the way, everyone pointing fingers is kind of missing the point; when you are in unchartered territory, you will make mistakes that seem obvious in hindsite, but you do your best) and just in general, chaos. As we've gotten more information and had more time to study this, it's severity seems less than originally implied and much more closely related to a flu than zombie virus. To me, the only real solution right now is learn to live with the virus. You cant stay locked up forever. You cant keep people pinned down against their will. You cant put people out of work. Since early February Ive been wearing a mask when I go out and always have the hand sanitizer close by. Get home, wash hands. Even though Trump didnt suggest doing that until a couple weeks ago. Sheep, I know.

The US is a very different animal than much of the rest of the world. We're incredibly divided, massively selfish, highly individualistic, among other things. There really is only so much that can be done, at any level, to address something like this. The comparisons to the rest of the world are valid...but I dont think they change anything. My hunch is, unfortunately, that even the NY/NJ/CT areas that did well with this, will see it come back again. The same is probably true for much the rest of the world. Asia, again maybe culturally being different, would seem an exception possibly, but we are what we are. But the notion of Trump "leadership" is overrated(for better or worse). Would the adamantly opposed to face mask crowd be any different if Romney or Biden were in office? I really dont think so. I'm still shocked by the number of people who are 100% convinced they dont need masks right now.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Cigarbutt on July 16, 2020, 08:18:10 PM
...
A few points.
Many, regardless of what side you are on, view this as an us vs them thing. A big problem here. I think stahleyp or Castanza is a good example of someone not thrilled by Trump, but look at the option of what they perceive as the "other side", and... well.
I've agreed on the lack of leadership. When you become president, the strategy should shift from "winning" in the papers and headlines, to winning on the field. Trump has tried in many places, but failed remarkably in others. There's many reasons and factors, some his fault, some arent, but the results at the end of the day are certainly a mixed bag and during times of needed unity, he is probably the last person you want in charge of handling that task.
I agree re: Trump on facemasks. Liberate Michigan was again, putting "winning" politically, above uniting. I'm sure some of you noticed, mid hysteria in March, Trump actually got real quiet, started taking the virus seriously, but then once he saw there was offshoots of support from his base for "taking the other side" of what he perceived as a "democrat" issue...he went the other way unfortunately.
Re: virus...Indeed, I have downplayed a lot of it, most of which is influenced by what I perceive as its effects on the markets and through an economic lens, not a humanitarian one. I think there was obviously a major overreaction originally, huge lack of information(which is why, by the way, everyone pointing fingers is kind of missing the point; when you are in unchartered territory, you will make mistakes that seem obvious in hindsite, but you do your best) and just in general, chaos. As we've gotten more information and had more time to study this, it's severity seems less than originally implied and much more closely related to a flu than zombie virus. To me, the only real solution right now is learn to live with the virus. You cant stay locked up forever. You cant keep people pinned down against their will. You cant put people out of work. Since early February Ive been wearing a mask when I go out and always have the hand sanitizer close by. Get home, wash hands. Even though Trump didnt suggest doing that until a couple weeks ago. Sheep, I know.
The US is a very different animal than much of the rest of the world. We're incredibly divided, massively selfish, highly individualistic, among other things. There really is only so much that can be done, at any level, to address something like this. The comparisons to the rest of the world are valid...but I dont think they change anything. My hunch is, unfortunately, that even the NY/NJ/CT areas that did well with this, will see it come back again. The same is probably true for much the rest of the world. Asia, again maybe culturally being different, would seem an exception possibly, but we are what we are. But the notion of Trump "leadership" is overrated(for better or worse). Would the adamantly opposed to face mask crowd be any different if Romney or Biden were in office? I really dont think so. I'm still shocked by the number of people who are 100% convinced they dont need masks right now.
https://history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/111tocqueville.html
Chapter VIII HOW THE AMERICANS COMBAT INDIVIDUALISM BY THE PRINCIPLE OF SELF-INTEREST RIGHTLY UNDERSTOOD     
TL;DR version:
Americans will not brag about it but have historically shown a tendency to instinctively know when and how to self-sacrifice for the good of the nation.
Where is the shining city upon a hill?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on July 17, 2020, 05:26:48 PM
My concern here is Joe Biden can & is worse than a tuna sandwich. He has probably been on the wrong side of more political issues than anyone alive. As a member of the Senate & VP that was fine but as a decision maker he may be the second coming of Jimmy Carter.  Trump is a fool & does not know how to present himself well in a number of cases but he follows the correct policies in the majority of the cases for the issues that the federal government is responsible for, namely taxes & the Cold War w China. Good ole Joe has better press & has more progressive views on issues the federal government is not responsible for.  China will walk all over Joe (he probably does not realize we are at war) & increasing taxes to subsidize an industry that already has an economic advantage, renewables, is a multi-trillion dollar bonfire. If the Dems had a better choice, Trump would not have a chance but somehow they picked one of the only guys/gals that can give Trump a fighting chance.

Packer

Trump pulled out of the TPP which would have been quite effective in isolating China, so I don't consider his China policy as all that great. I agree on his tax policy.

Speaking of cold war I do think Trump has done a terrible job in allowing Russia to strengthen under his watch, obviously, and damaged NATO. Though I think Obama was weak on Russia as well, though not as weak as Trump, but that's because he wasn't compromised.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Packer16 on July 17, 2020, 05:53:05 PM
My concern here is Joe Biden can & is worse than a tuna sandwich. He has probably been on the wrong side of more political issues than anyone alive. As a member of the Senate & VP that was fine but as a decision maker he may be the second coming of Jimmy Carter.  Trump is a fool & does not know how to present himself well in a number of cases but he follows the correct policies in the majority of the cases for the issues that the federal government is responsible for, namely taxes & the Cold War w China. Good ole Joe has better press & has more progressive views on issues the federal government is not responsible for.  China will walk all over Joe (he probably does not realize we are at war) & increasing taxes to subsidize an industry that already has an economic advantage, renewables, is a multi-trillion dollar bonfire. If the Dems had a better choice, Trump would not have a chance but somehow they picked one of the only guys/gals that can give Trump a fighting chance.

Packer

Trump pulled out of the TPP which would have been quite effective in isolating China, so I don't consider his China policy as all that great. I agree on his tax policy.

Speaking of cold war I do think Trump has done a terrible job in allowing Russia to strengthen under his watch, obviously, and damaged NATO. Though I think Obama was weak on Russia as well, though not as weak as Trump, but that's because he wasn't compromised.

If you think pulling out of TPP is sufficient to deal with China, you have misread their playbook.  They are autocrats using capitalism to generate wealth to control information & people at home & around the world.  Russia & Iran are similar to China just not as rich or clever or as adept at using capitalism to meet their autocratic objectives.  I look at this as final disruption of democracy over autocracy which began w the Magna Carta.  IMO we need to pressure China like we did the Soviet Union by overloading their system of control. Trump/Pompeo have this correct approach to cause the Chinese autocracy to collapse. I doubt Biden even has this in his realm of possibility.

Packer
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 17, 2020, 05:56:14 PM
My concern here is Joe Biden can & is worse than a tuna sandwich. He has probably been on the wrong side of more political issues than anyone alive. As a member of the Senate & VP that was fine but as a decision maker he may be the second coming of Jimmy Carter.  Trump is a fool & does not know how to present himself well in a number of cases but he follows the correct policies in the majority of the cases for the issues that the federal government is responsible for, namely taxes & the Cold War w China. Good ole Joe has better press & has more progressive views on issues the federal government is not responsible for.  China will walk all over Joe (he probably does not realize we are at war) & increasing taxes to subsidize an industry that already has an economic advantage, renewables, is a multi-trillion dollar bonfire. If the Dems had a better choice, Trump would not have a chance but somehow they picked one of the only guys/gals that can give Trump a fighting chance.

Packer

Trump pulled out of the TPP which would have been quite effective in isolating China, so I don't consider his China policy as all that great. I agree on his tax policy.

Speaking of cold war I do think Trump has done a terrible job in allowing Russia to strengthen under his watch, obviously, and damaged NATO. Though I think Obama was weak on Russia as well, though not as weak as Trump, but that's because he wasn't compromised.


President Obama handed over Crimea to the Russians in spite of pleas for help from Ukraine. The President was gutless.

When Putin invaded Ukraine to take Crimea - he armed the separatist's groups in Eastern Ukraine with tanks, armored vehicles and rocket launchers
Hell, those assholes even shot down a Malaysian passenger plane killing 298 innocent passengers. 

The Ukrainians, fearing an separatist invasion with Russian tanks, etc - pleaded for anti-tank missiles (Javelins). Obama nixed the deal.
But Obama did give them blankets and MRE's to fight against the invasion.

When Trump came into office - he gave the Ukrainians the Javelins.  I'm sure Putin was delighted with that deal.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on July 17, 2020, 06:15:45 PM
My concern here is Joe Biden can & is worse than a tuna sandwich. He has probably been on the wrong side of more political issues than anyone alive. As a member of the Senate & VP that was fine but as a decision maker he may be the second coming of Jimmy Carter.  Trump is a fool & does not know how to present himself well in a number of cases but he follows the correct policies in the majority of the cases for the issues that the federal government is responsible for, namely taxes & the Cold War w China. Good ole Joe has better press & has more progressive views on issues the federal government is not responsible for.  China will walk all over Joe (he probably does not realize we are at war) & increasing taxes to subsidize an industry that already has an economic advantage, renewables, is a multi-trillion dollar bonfire. If the Dems had a better choice, Trump would not have a chance but somehow they picked one of the only guys/gals that can give Trump a fighting chance.

Packer

Trump pulled out of the TPP which would have been quite effective in isolating China, so I don't consider his China policy as all that great. I agree on his tax policy.

Speaking of cold war I do think Trump has done a terrible job in allowing Russia to strengthen under his watch, obviously, and damaged NATO. Though I think Obama was weak on Russia as well, though not as weak as Trump, but that's because he wasn't compromised.

If you think pulling out of TPP is sufficient to deal with China, you have misread their playbook.  They are autocrats using capitalism to generate wealth to control information & people at home & around the world.  Russia & Iran are similar to China just not as rich or clever or as adept at using capitalism to meet their autocratic objectives.  I look at this as final disruption of democracy over autocracy which began w the Magna Carta.  IMO we need to pressure China like we did the Soviet Union by overloading their system of control. Trump/Pompeo have this correct approach to cause the Chinese autocracy to collapse. I doubt Biden even has this in his realm of possibility.

Packer

I think I stated not so clearly, but I meant to say that pulling out of TPP was a MISTAKE. It was a good way, though not enough, to isolate China, and it was created by Obama. I would expect Biden to take a similar approach. Trump, while having the right idea for wanting to confront China, made a mistake by pulling out of the deal that had already been created and would have been effective while also strengthening our trade relations.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Packer16 on July 17, 2020, 07:20:13 PM
You are correct & I agree that one way to drain China of its capital is via trade.  IMO I think it will take much more, a Cold War mentality until China sets the information free.  It is a disruption that needs some investment from the West to reach fruition.  I hope more folks will take China at its word that it wants to gain control of information to control its people & the narrative it projects.  Biden’s approach to China via TPP is dancing around the edges & does not deal with fundamental issue China & control & IMO will have marginal impact on China’s actions.

Packer
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on July 18, 2020, 03:54:19 PM
Quote
Trump is a fool & does not know how to present himself well in a number of cases but he follows the correct policies in the majority of the cases for the issues that the federal government is responsible for, namely taxes & the Cold War w China

Cold war with China? Our highest trade volume with China was in 2018, thanks to Trump.
Federal tax cuts have had negligible impact on reinvestment or income growth in the lower/middle classes - but a great bailout to the richest.
He has led a country with one of the worst COVID responses (both empirically and policy-wise) among large nations.
He has completely failed to negotiate social unrest among cities in the US.
He has alienated our longstanding allies.
He has botched foreign policy in the middle east.
He has gutted environmental and safety regulations.
He has a cohort of felons working for him.
I could go on but frankly he's not even worth the brain damage.

Ultimately Trump is a near total failure as a country's leader - which would be real easy to see in retrospect when we look upon his presidency as a continuation of leading his failed businesses and "charities". His M.O. from day 1 has been "milk this for everything it's worth, declare BK and move on".
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on July 18, 2020, 04:56:35 PM
You are correct & I agree that one way to drain China of its capital is via trade.  IMO I think it will take much more, a Cold War mentality until China sets the information free.  It is a disruption that needs some investment from the West to reach fruition.  I hope more folks will take China at its word that it wants to gain control of information to control its people & the narrative it projects.  Biden’s approach to China via TPP is dancing around the edges & does not deal with fundamental issue China & control & IMO will have marginal impact on China’s actions.

Packer

https://www.cato.org/blog/what-would-trade-policy-look-under-president-joe-biden

Biden was supportive of TPP when he was VP and he's stated he will rejoin if he wins. Of course he has said he will change some of the terms, because he needs the socialist support, but he's made it clear we need to isolate China. Trump is like a broken clock, sometimes he's right, but I don't think he has any real moral compass, values, or beliefs. His foreign policy has been rather week particularly with Russia, in terms of alienating NATO allies and being way too soft on Putin. Maybe the trade wars with China will help, idk, but I don't see tarrifs against European allies as helpful.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Packer16 on July 18, 2020, 10:16:01 PM
Quote
Trump is a fool & does not know how to present himself well in a number of cases but he follows the correct policies in the majority of the cases for the issues that the federal government is responsible for, namely taxes & the Cold War w China

Cold war with China? Our highest trade volume with China was in 2018, thanks to Trump.
Federal tax cuts have had negligible impact on reinvestment or income growth in the lower/middle classes - but a great bailout to the richest.
He has led a country with one of the worst COVID responses (both empirically and policy-wise) among large nations.
He has completely failed to negotiate social unrest among cities in the US.
He has alienated our longstanding allies.
He has botched foreign policy in the middle east.
He has gutted environmental and safety regulations.
He has a cohort of felons working for him.
I could go on but frankly he's not even worth the brain damage.

Ultimately Trump is a near total failure as a country's leader - which would be real easy to see in retrospect when we look upon his presidency as a continuation of leading his failed businesses and "charities". His M.O. from day 1 has been "milk this for everything it's worth, declare BK and move on".

The cold war in China is IMO the big issue that the Feds can do something about & Trump/Pompeo seem to understand this.  Biden is going to fritter around the edges & allow China to continue to expand autocracy into HK & Taiwan. 
The Federal taxes reductions are encouraging investment (which will make the poor richer faster (via technological innovation)) than any one time transfers of wealth. Biden's green $2 trillion of "investment" is a waste of money due to solar/wind already winning the energy wars.  The money should be spent on solving real problems vs. providing subsidies to the rich buyers of green products. 
COVID has been poor but many others have done poor also. 
Is it the President's job to negotiate social unrest or is it the states job?  The President should facilitate but some of the states have allowed chaos to reign.
Our allies are our allies due to common democratic values.  Those who do not have democratic values, IMO are in conflict with those do & to "play nice" w autocrats does not get you very far as our attempts w China, Iran & Russia have shown. Trump has not changed these values but is not the most elegant speaker of our values.
You can find a list of reasons to not like any politician that has been around alot.
IMO you need to compare Biden vs. Trump policies and pick your poison.  Biden is much more agreeable but I am concerned about his poor historical decision making.
Thanks for sharing your concerns.

Packer
 
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Packer16 on July 18, 2020, 10:23:33 PM
You are correct & I agree that one way to drain China of its capital is via trade.  IMO I think it will take much more, a Cold War mentality until China sets the information free.  It is a disruption that needs some investment from the West to reach fruition.  I hope more folks will take China at its word that it wants to gain control of information to control its people & the narrative it projects.  Biden’s approach to China via TPP is dancing around the edges & does not deal with fundamental issue China & control & IMO will have marginal impact on China’s actions.

Packer

https://www.cato.org/blog/what-would-trade-policy-look-under-president-joe-biden

Biden was supportive of TPP when he was VP and he's stated he will rejoin if he wins. Of course he has said he will change some of the terms, because he needs the socialist support, but he's made it clear we need to isolate China. Trump is like a broken clock, sometimes he's right, but I don't think he has any real moral compass, values, or beliefs. His foreign policy has been rather week particularly with Russia, in terms of alienating NATO allies and being way too soft on Putin. Maybe the trade wars with China will help, idk, but I don't see tarrifs against European allies as helpful.

I just do not have enough confidence that Joe has the "vision" of what needs to be done to deal with autocracies, namely trade sanctions & disinvestment & Biden is going to fritter away trillions of dollars on green projects that have already reached market sustainability in terms of costs.  I agree about Russia but I see Russia as a declining autocratic power (with advantages in the age of oil & mobility vs. current internet age) vs. China a rising autocratic power.

Packer
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on July 18, 2020, 11:50:53 PM
Well, at the risk of beating a dead horse, here goes:

Quote
The cold war in China is IMO the big issue that the Feds can do something about & Trump/Pompeo seem to understand this.  Biden is going to fritter around the edges & allow China to continue to expand autocracy into HK & Taiwan.
China is already expanding aggressively into HK/TW, in spite of Trump's trade policies. China has shown it is able to fund an expansionary policy and operate under new trade law. Trump has bitten off more than he can chew, because he publicly alienated all his allies and has limited his bargaining power.

Quote
The Federal taxes reductions are encouraging investment (which will make the poor richer faster (via technological innovation)) than any one time transfers of wealth. Biden's green $2 trillion of "investment" is a waste of money due to solar/wind already winning the energy wars.  The money should be spent on solving real problems vs. providing subsidies to the rich buyers of green products.
There has been no evidence of increased investment after the tax cuts. Rates of investment have not changed significantly YoY. Almost all rates of consumer health did also not change significantly. The only significant changes were (1) re-patriation of overseas profits and (2) share repurchases coming from these dollars.

US companies spent years earning profits under an old tax regime (i.e. taking advantage of federal resources), and Trump allowed them to privatize a larger portion of those profits. Essentially fleecing the US taxpayer.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/did-the-u-s-tax-overhaul-do-what-it-promised-11578114001

Quote
COVID has been poor but many others have done poor also.
This is never a good excuse. All he had to do was tell people to wear masks. But he refused, and so people died and will continue to die for the benefit of his and his supporter's egos. Unacceptable.

Quote
Is it the President's job to negotiate social unrest or is it the states job?  The President should facilitate but some of the states have allowed chaos to reign.
I agree, but where is the facilitation? Instead he escalates the situation (using armed guards to tear gas a path so he can take ridiculous photo ops with a bible, for example)

Quote
Our allies are our allies due to common democratic values.  Those who do not have democratic values, IMO are in conflict with those do & to "play nice" w autocrats does not get you very far as our attempts w China, Iran & Russia have shown. Trump has not changed these values but is not the most elegant speaker of our values.
I agree. But instead of trying to tighten bonds with our democratic allies, Trump is alienating them economically and socially. Trump compliments to autocrats (Putin, Erdogan, Jinping, et al) and criticizes democracies. This is beyond simply, "not the most elegant speaker".

Quote
You can find a list of reasons to not like any politician that has been around alot.
For sure, and usually fresh blood is free of these blemishes. Yet in a few short years, Trump has a list of criticisms to match a politician with 50+ years of history.

Quote
IMO you need to compare Biden vs. Trump policies and pick your poison.  Biden is much more agreeable but I am concerned about his poor historical decision making.
I will be the first to admit Biden has a history of being on the wrong side of issues, but he also has a history of publicly acknowledging mistakes and moving to correct them. Sure, it is politically driven. But I will say that it looks a lot better to apologize in the face of public pressure versus ignoring months of scientific advice and 100,000+ deaths before finally wearing a mask in public.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Spekulatius on July 19, 2020, 08:06:32 AM
In my opinion, Trump and Pompeo have no grand plan to do anything about autocracies. Trump’s plan is summed up in “America first” and that seems to be in a very short sighted way. If he can get a trade deal that looks Ok, he is going to let them do what ever they want, imo.
We have seen that in Syria where he bailed and left Turkey and Russia with the spoils.

FWIW, I don’t think that Biden has a plan either.

If Trump/Pompeo really want to stick one to the PRC, they would finally acknowledge Taiwan as an independent sovereign state. That hasn’t happened and I don’t think it will, but it is a necessary step if you really want to show the PRC that you mean “business”.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 19, 2020, 09:15:15 AM
So silly to see this "Trump is soft on Russia" narrative. Facts be damned.

Fact:  Obama draws "red-line" in Syria, Assad tramples on it - and gases his people about 30 times daring Obama to counter.
Fact:  Putin sees this, and proceeds to invade Crimea and arm Ukrainian separatists with tanks, etc
Fact:  Ukrainian Gov pleads to Obama for Anti-Tank missiles to counter Putin's move.
Fact:  Obama refuses, but gives Ukrainians blankets, but no armaments
Fact:  Putin backed rebels shoot down Malaysian airliner with 300 innocents
Fact:  Trump has to clean up Obama's mess in Ukraine and gives government anti-tank missiles against Russia
Fact:  Trump has to attack and kill 200 Russians in Syria, when they make a move against US forces.

But yeah, boys - Trump sure is soft on Russia!

Putin just had to LOVE playing President Obama for the foriegn policy fool that he was.

Trump was just cleaning up Obama's mess.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Spekulatius on July 19, 2020, 10:06:26 AM
So silly to see this "Trump is soft on Russia" narrative. Facts be damned.

Fact:  Obama draws "red-line" in Syria, Assad tramples on it - and gases his people about 30 times daring Obama to counter.
Fact:  Putin sees this, and proceeds to invade Crimea and arm Ukrainian separatists with tanks, etc
Fact:  Ukrainian Gov pleads to Obama for Anti-Tank missiles to counter Putin's move.
Fact:  Obama refuses, but gives Ukrainians blankets, but no armaments
Fact:  Putin backed rebels shoot down Malaysian airliner with 300 innocents
Fact:  Trump has to clean up Obama's mess in Ukraine and gives government anti-tank missiles against Russia
Fact:  Trump has to attack and kill 200 Russians in Syria, when they make a move against US forces.

But yeah, boys - Trump sure is soft on Russia!

Putin just had to LOVE playing President Obama for the foriegn policy fool that he was.

Trump was just cleaning up Obama's mess.

So what did a Trump do about the gas attacks in Syria in 2017 and 2018? He was in charge then and still is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Shaykhun_chemical_attack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Shaykhun_chemical_attack)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 19, 2020, 10:29:38 AM
So silly to see this "Trump is soft on Russia" narrative. Facts be damned.

Fact:  Obama draws "red-line" in Syria, Assad tramples on it - and gases his people about 30 times daring Obama to counter.
Fact:  Putin sees this, and proceeds to invade Crimea and arm Ukrainian separatists with tanks, etc
Fact:  Ukrainian Gov pleads to Obama for Anti-Tank missiles to counter Putin's move.
Fact:  Obama refuses, but gives Ukrainians blankets, but no armaments
Fact:  Putin backed rebels shoot down Malaysian airliner with 300 innocents
Fact:  Trump has to clean up Obama's mess in Ukraine and gives government anti-tank missiles against Russia
Fact:  Trump has to attack and kill 200 Russians in Syria, when they make a move against US forces.

But yeah, boys - Trump sure is soft on Russia!

Putin just had to LOVE playing President Obama for the foriegn policy fool that he was.

Trump was just cleaning up Obama's mess.

So what did a Trump do about the gas attacks in Syria in 2017 and 2018? He was in charge then and still is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Shaykhun_chemical_attack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Shaykhun_chemical_attack)


Silly Boy!

Trump responded immediately by launching 60 Tomahawk missiles into Shyarat Airforce Base in Syria.
And that, of course, was the FIRST sanctioned military action against Syria and Assad - destroying about 20% of Assad's air force.

The Russians, for their part, said this attack substantially damaged US/Russia relations and put both countries on the brink of war.

But, yeah - Trump is soft on Russia!

Keep the lies coming guys!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Spekulatius on July 19, 2020, 11:50:02 AM
Here is a good article on the Syrian war and Obama POV. it is correct that Trump did retaliate against the chemical weapon use. This was a joint US, French and Uk operation.

It does not seem like all this really changed much. In the end, Trump pulled out completely and now the Russians and Turks fight for the spoils.
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War_(January–April_2020) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War_(January–April_2020))
 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38297343 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38297343)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 19, 2020, 12:07:07 PM
Here is a good article on the Syrian war and Obama POV. it is correct that Trump did retaliate against the chemical weapon use. This was a joint US, French and Uk operation.

It does not seem like all this really changed much. In the end, Trump pulled out completely and now the Russians and Turks fight for the spoils.
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War_(January–April_2020) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War_(January–April_2020))
 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38297343 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38297343)

That was the second operation, which was a joint operation. The first operation, was the USA alone, and drew the comments from Russia, regarding
putting the USA and Russia close to war.  One year later, the joint allied operation proceeded.

The gassing of women and children finally stopped - once the these USA/Allied operations completed. Thank Trump for that, Obama just let the
war crimes continue because he was weak.

You leave out an important fact:  After Assad trampled on President Obama's Red Line - President Obama INVITED Putin and Russian into
Syria to "help sort it out" - What an idiotic move - so of course REMOVING the Russians from Syria is much more difficult than letting them in.

Obama never understood the concept of "Deterrence", but he was the master of "appeasement".

Putin, Assad, The Iranian Mullahs, China - they loved a weak US President like Obama.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Schwab711 on July 20, 2020, 08:15:42 AM
There seems to be very low awareness of Biden's policies on either side and I'm always amazed at how the Trump narrative differs from Trump's actions.

Trump cut military procurement by 10%-15% this year (he cut procurement last year too) and the military requested less money than was offered by D-Reps. He's pulled troops from allies and has only very recently increased our presence in the China Seas. Biden is running on increases to the military budgets (both procurement and troops), increased sanctions on China (which Trump recently copied), and increased pressure on China while they continue to detain Uighurs. Biden's trade policies with China are geared towards isolating them, while Trump has expanded our trade with them.

It's not clear Trump is tough on any foreign power, based on the last few years.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 20, 2020, 09:00:22 AM
It's not clear Trump is tough on any foreign power, based on the last few years.
He gave Canada some grief a while back, though I'm not sure it qualifies as a foreign power.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 20, 2020, 10:21:51 AM
There seems to be very low awareness of Biden's policies on either side and I'm always amazed at how the Trump narrative differs from Trump's actions.

Trump cut military procurement by 10%-15% this year (he cut procurement last year too) and the military requested less money than was offered by D-Reps. He's pulled troops from allies and has only very recently increased our presence in the China Seas. Biden is running on increases to the military budgets (both procurement and troops), increased sanctions on China (which Trump recently copied), and increased pressure on China while they continue to detain Uighurs. Biden's trade policies with China are geared towards isolating them, while Trump has expanded our trade with them.

It's not clear Trump is tough on any foreign power, based on the last few years.

Is this a joke?  Joe Biden tough on China?

Oh, yea, once his boy Hunter gets paid off again - it will be back to the same.

You're really stretching here...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on July 20, 2020, 10:35:44 AM
There seems to be very low awareness of Biden's policies on either side and I'm always amazed at how the Trump narrative differs from Trump's actions.

Trump cut military procurement by 10%-15% this year (he cut procurement last year too) and the military requested less money than was offered by D-Reps. He's pulled troops from allies and has only very recently increased our presence in the China Seas. Biden is running on increases to the military budgets (both procurement and troops), increased sanctions on China (which Trump recently copied), and increased pressure on China while they continue to detain Uighurs. Biden's trade policies with China are geared towards isolating them, while Trump has expanded our trade with them.

It's not clear Trump is tough on any foreign power, based on the last few years.

This is actually pretty on point. Trump, "relatively" speaking, is far tougher on foreign powers than his predecessors. But saying Trump is "tough" on any of them in any absolutely sense is definitely a stretch. From my observations, his strategy seems to be, 1) talk boldly 2) always go "one up" to the degree it doesnt cause too many real waves 3) always take "some" action that is bound to get in the papers but is easy to rollback 4) settle and then kiss ass. In a sense, if a foreign power gives Trump a headline win, he gives them something back in return. Quid pro quo, or simply negotiating, depending on what side of the isle you are on.

That said, we've seen 40 years of Biden, so dont hold your breathe there.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on July 20, 2020, 07:48:22 PM

It's not clear Trump is tough on any foreign power, based on the last few years.

This is utter nonsense. He set billions of dollars in tarriffs on Japanaese steel, aluminum, autos, and auto parts in retaliation for
the attack on Pearl Harbor:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/i-remember-pearl-harbor-inside-trumps-hot-and-cold-relationship-with-japans-prime-minister/2018/08/28/d6117021-e310-40a4-b688-68fdf5ed2f38_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/i-remember-pearl-harbor-inside-trumps-hot-and-cold-relationship-with-japans-prime-minister/2018/08/28/d6117021-e310-40a4-b688-68fdf5ed2f38_story.html)

And don't forget tarriffs on French wine, cheese, and handbags.

Everyone thinks this is a bad idea. Trump is the only one willing to take a tough stance on the country for Napolean's support of the Confederacy during the Civil War.

Just remember this before calling him a racist.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 21, 2020, 04:10:03 AM
Yes, I know Trump is a racist, white supremacist and undercover Nazi agent but which of the options said this?


"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this."

Hint: not Trump. ;)

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on July 21, 2020, 08:16:35 AM
To the Canadians

You have a racist PM who likes to dress up in black face 

You have Chrystia Freeland who is "proud" of her grandfathers Nazi lineage.

And oh look, a casual Nazi SS memorial in Ontario.

 - https://nypost.com/2020/07/18/defaced-nazi-memorial-in-canada-investigated-as-hate-crime/

Orthopa already pointed out the racial police issues in your own country.

Shouldn't throw rocks if you live in glass houses...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 21, 2020, 08:24:19 AM
Well, I suppose Nazis will be the next "protected" group since they're also marginalized.  ::)

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on July 21, 2020, 08:52:56 AM
Yes, I know Trump is a racist, white supremacist and undercover Nazi agent but which of the options said this?


"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this."

Hint: not Trump. ;)

For those who would like to be updated with evidence after the 1970s:

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-2020-biden-segregationists-apology-20190706-story.html
Biden apologized.

Let’s compare to Trump:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/18/nyregion/central-park-five-trump.html

It’s important to reconsider your beliefs in light of new evidence. It may not all be a part of gods plan.

Even Trump started wearing a mask. Sure, it took 140,000 American deaths to change his mind, but at least he did it.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 21, 2020, 09:25:19 AM
Yes, I know Trump is a racist, white supremacist and undercover Nazi agent but which of the options said this?


"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this."

Hint: not Trump. ;)

For those who would like to be updated with evidence after the 1970s:

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-2020-biden-segregationists-apology-20190706-story.html
Biden apologized.

Let’s compare to Trump:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/18/nyregion/central-park-five-trump.html

It’s important to reconsider your beliefs in light of new evidence. It may not all be a part of gods plan.

Even Trump started wearing a mask. Sure, it took 140,000 American deaths to change his mind, but at least he did it.

Yes, evidence like your view of subjective and objective morality at the same time. You have these moral "values" but no evidence to support them. At least be honest! ;)

But, let's also take a look at your article:

The very title says: "Joe Biden apologizes for comments about segregationists, after weeks of criticism"

"Joe Biden on Saturday for the first time made a partial apology and invoked his ties to Barack Obama, to defend himself in a fight that could sway African American voters.'

So it took him 40+ years to apologize and then...after weeks of criticism. Sounds sincere.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on July 21, 2020, 12:27:30 PM
I didn't say it was sincere.

I don't think Trump is sincere about wearing a mask.

The difference is it took some public shaming to bring Joe back to reality, but it took 140,000 dead bodies to do the same to Donny.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on July 21, 2020, 12:30:25 PM
Why does Biden need to continuously bring up his ties to Obama?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on July 21, 2020, 12:36:15 PM
Probably to get votes. You know, because he's a politician.

Why does Donald Trump tear gas citizens to clear a path for a photo shoot holding a bible? Same reason.

Joe's blatant politicizing involves buddy-ing up to Obama supporters...Trump authorizes weapons illegal in war, against his own people.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on July 21, 2020, 12:43:11 PM
He basically projects....."Obama is great, but since we cant have him, settle for me!"....Campaign slogan should be "Make America, a similar but inferior version of whatever it was under Obama Again!"
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 21, 2020, 12:43:35 PM
I didn't say it was sincere.

I don't think Trump is sincere about wearing a mask.

The difference is it took some public shaming to bring Joe back to reality, but it took 140,000 dead bodies to do the same to Donny.

I think they're both terrible choices but think Trump is probably a little less dangerous. Biden probably wouldn't be too bad but he is caving pretty hard to the left. I was actually open toward to voting for Biden up until the past couple months. Not anymore though.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 21, 2020, 12:45:43 PM
He basically projects....."Obama is great, but since we cant have him, settle for me!"....Campaign slogan should be "Make America, a similar but inferior version of whatever it was under Obama Again!"
Most of America at this point thinks that's a pretty good deal.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 21, 2020, 12:50:31 PM
To the Canadians

You have a racist PM who likes to dress up in black face 

You have Chrystia Freeland who is "proud" of her grandfathers Nazi lineage.

And oh look, a casual Nazi SS memorial in Ontario.

 - https://nypost.com/2020/07/18/defaced-nazi-memorial-in-canada-investigated-as-hate-crime/

Orthopa already pointed out the racial police issues in your own country.

Shouldn't throw rocks if you live in glass houses...
Dude, nobody thinks that Justin Trudeau is a racist. Even less think that Freeland is a Nazi. Here's a piece that calls bullshit on your claim:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/terry-glavin-enter-the-freeland-nazi-conspiracy-and-the-amping-up-of-russias-mischief-in-canada

You're not familiar with the terrain, so let me help you out. That's a piece by a conservative guy in a conservative newspaper that's part of a conservative media company owned by a conservative family from a conservative province. They loathe Freeland.

Orthopa did not point out the racial police issues in Canada. I did.

About that dumb monument I don't know what you're trying to say. Do you think that we have a national cultural commission that approves what crap people can put up in private cemeteries? Just to dispel other myths you may have: White supremacists and neo-nazies also exist in Canada. You are also free to buy Mein Kampf and have a Hitler poster over your bed. We just don't refer to these people as "good people".

I'll tell you what you won't find in Canada though: a military installation called CFB Washington.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 21, 2020, 12:54:10 PM
To the Canadians

You have a racist PM who likes to dress up in black face 

You have Chrystia Freeland who is "proud" of her grandfathers Nazi lineage.

And oh look, a casual Nazi SS memorial in Ontario.

 - https://nypost.com/2020/07/18/defaced-nazi-memorial-in-canada-investigated-as-hate-crime/

Orthopa already pointed out the racial police issues in your own country.

Shouldn't throw rocks if you live in glass houses...
Dude, nobody thinks that Justin Trudeau is a racist.

That's not true.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 21, 2020, 12:59:04 PM
Ok Paul, glad we have your relevant input on that.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 21, 2020, 01:05:21 PM
Ok Paul, glad we have your relevant input on that.

Trudeau reminds me of one of these preachers who goes around bashing gay people...and then is caught with a guy.

He goes around blasting people so that he can virtue signal his political correctness (wokeness) because he's trying to overcome his true feelings. Like, I don't go around saying "peoplekind" but I've also never had blackface either. The dude has done it multiple times.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Spekulatius on July 21, 2020, 02:50:18 PM
Ohh- Hioo’s not so clean energy plan:
https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/07/fbi-agents-deployed-to-ohio-house-speaker-larry-householders-farm-report.html (https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/07/fbi-agents-deployed-to-ohio-house-speaker-larry-householders-farm-report.html)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 21, 2020, 03:10:43 PM
Ohh- Hioo’s not so clean energy plan:
https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/07/fbi-agents-deployed-to-ohio-house-speaker-larry-householders-farm-report.html (https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/07/fbi-agents-deployed-to-ohio-house-speaker-larry-householders-farm-report.html)

Perhaps we should be more lenient with who gets the death penalty.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on July 21, 2020, 03:23:15 PM
To the Canadians

You have a racist PM who likes to dress up in black face 

You have Chrystia Freeland who is "proud" of her grandfathers Nazi lineage.

And oh look, a casual Nazi SS memorial in Ontario.

 - https://nypost.com/2020/07/18/defaced-nazi-memorial-in-canada-investigated-as-hate-crime/

Orthopa already pointed out the racial police issues in your own country.

Shouldn't throw rocks if you live in glass houses...
Dude, nobody thinks that Justin Trudeau is a racist. Even less think that Freeland is a Nazi. Here's a piece that calls bullshit on your claim:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/terry-glavin-enter-the-freeland-nazi-conspiracy-and-the-amping-up-of-russias-mischief-in-canada

You're not familiar with the terrain, so let me help you out. That's a piece by a conservative guy in a conservative newspaper that's part of a conservative media company owned by a conservative family from a conservative province. They loathe Freeland.

Orthopa did not point out the racial police issues in Canada. I did.

About that dumb monument I don't know what you're trying to say. Do you think that we have a national cultural commission that approves what crap people can put up in private cemeteries? Just to dispel other myths you may have: White supremacists and neo-nazies also exist in Canada. You are also free to buy Mein Kampf and have a Hitler poster over your bed. We just don't refer to these people as "good people".

I'll tell you what you won't find in Canada though: a military installation called CFB Washington.

You should speak more for yourself and less for others.

Also no, it was Orthopa
https://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/politics/canada-has-a-race-problem-too/
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 21, 2020, 03:42:26 PM
Weren't you speaking 100% for others with your original post, that was... how shall I put this nicely... full of crap.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 21, 2020, 04:07:28 PM
"To the Canadians

You have a racist PM who likes to dress up in black face"


Racist? What a bunch of horseshit. I have no time for Trudeau and think he is a twit. But raciest? Get real. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. You just scan a few headlines from questionable sources and believe the headlines without doing any research. Yeah, Twenty years ago Trudeau used shoe polish on his face for a couple of Halloween parties. That doesn’t make one a raciest. Does dressing up as a woman on Halloween make one gay? Dress up in a military uniform and you are a spy? That’s just more of this political correctness BS.

"You have Chrystia Freeland who is "proud" of her grandfathers Nazi lineage."

Still getting your info from Russian propaganda? Just because Freeland can duke it out with President Doofus, doesn’t make her a Nazi. Ever take a look at Trump’s family tree? He won’t even release his university or tax records let alone his family tree. 

"And oh look, a casual Nazi SS memorial in Ontario.And oh look, a casual Nazi SS memorial in Ontario.
 - https://nypost.com/2020/07/18/defaced-nazi-memorial-in-canada-investigated-as-hate-crime/ "


Really? The New York Post is barely a step above the National Enquirer for making something out of nothing. Did you have a glance at their other headlines?
“Sick Nazi song goes viral on TikTok with more than 6.5 million views”,
“Louisiana lawmaker equates coronavirus mask mandates with Nazi Germany”,
“Finland scraps pre-Nazi swastika logo from Air Force”,
“Woman shot for stealing Nazi flag outside man's home”

You Americans are so gullible.

Orthopa already pointed out the racial police issues in your own country.

Show me a country without that problem. At least we don’t have a regular procession of police executions of black people.

Shouldn't throw rocks if you live in glass houses...

Let me point out something. You are taking a couple of tiny, insignificant things and trying to suggest they are comparable to the gigantic problems that exist in the US at this time. What you don't understand is that nearly every single thing the US does has a direct effect on Canada. We have a 3,000 mile border and you have 10 time our population and we run a close second to China as your largest trading partner. You let Covid-19 run out of control and do you think it respects borders? We bite the bullet, we stay home when we have to, we wear masks when asked, we suffer financially all in an effort to have some sort of control over a virus. But it would appear that your country, president and several of your Republican governors believe the economy is more important than people's lives and refuse to take logical precautions. You have no idea of how that threatens the people of our country.     

One other thing. When you elect a total idiot to run your country, we suffer just as much, or more, than you do, but WE DO NOT GET A VOTE.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 21, 2020, 04:24:05 PM
"To the Canadians

You have a racist PM who likes to dress up in black face"


That’s just more of this political correctness BS.


Well, isn't that the game you guys play?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on July 21, 2020, 04:31:57 PM
God its like delusional narrative world lately, both in politics and investing.

Over the past 5 years you've averaged about 1,000 people(of all skin colors) killed by cops. Of that slightly more than 200 were black....and this completely ignores ANY CONTEXT. Hardly "a problem" and certainly not indicative of "regular procession of police executions of black people"...come on now.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on July 21, 2020, 04:33:42 PM
Quote
I think they're both terrible choices but think Trump is probably a little less dangerous. Biden probably wouldn't be too bad but he is caving pretty hard to the left. I was actually open toward to voting for Biden up until the past couple months. Not anymore though.

One guy gets thousands killed over his ego. Another guy apologizes after pressure from the left.

And you post this. We're at peak irrationality, folks.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 21, 2020, 04:37:24 PM
God its like delusional narrative world lately, both in politics and investing.

Over the past 5 years you've averaged about 1,000 people(of all skin colors) killed by cops. Of that slightly more than 200 were black....and this completely ignores ANY CONTEXT. Hardly "a problem" and certainly not indicative of "regular procession of police executions of black people"...come on now.
What's the body count where it becomes a problem?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 21, 2020, 04:37:50 PM
Quote
I think they're both terrible choices but think Trump is probably a little less dangerous. Biden probably wouldn't be too bad but he is caving pretty hard to the left. I was actually open toward to voting for Biden up until the past couple months. Not anymore though.

One guy gets thousands killed over his ego. Another guy apologizes after pressure from the left.

And you post this. We're at peak irrationality, folks.

Yes, I do think trying to destroy freedom of speech, trying to defund the police, give people money who don't want to work, and causing division by labeling everything as "hate speech" is more harmful to the long term health of the country.

You know what's irrational? Saying you won't believe something without evidence...then believing something without evidence. ;)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on July 21, 2020, 04:54:22 PM
God its like delusional narrative world lately, both in politics and investing.

Over the past 5 years you've averaged about 1,000 people(of all skin colors) killed by cops. Of that slightly more than 200 were black....and this completely ignores ANY CONTEXT. Hardly "a problem" and certainly not indicative of "regular procession of police executions of black people"...come on now.
What's the body count where it becomes a problem?

Context determines the problem. "regular executions of black people"...the only thing that fits that narrative is what some blacks are doing to other blacks. You have 1000 US cases of people killed by cop. 600 so far in 2020. Almost all of the cases typically involve the person being a threat and either armed, or at risk of causing serious harm. Frankly, given the attention/clicks the media gets, I'm pretty confident that we hear about the majority of "unarmed" shootings, especially with blacks. So maybe??? a dozen or two cases a year? If that..... There's certainly more pressing things be focused on. As unpopular a stance as that may be right now...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on July 21, 2020, 05:15:46 PM
"To the Canadians

You have a racist PM who likes to dress up in black face"


Racist? What a bunch of horseshit. I have no time for Trudeau and think he is a twit. But raciest? Get real. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. You just scan a few headlines from questionable sources and believe the headlines without doing any research. Yeah, Twenty years ago Trudeau used shoe polish on his face for a couple of Halloween parties. That doesn’t make one a raciest. Does dressing up as a woman on Halloween make one gay? Dress up in a military uniform and you are a spy? That’s just more of this political correctness BS.

"You have Chrystia Freeland who is "proud" of her grandfathers Nazi lineage."

Still getting your info from Russian propaganda? Just because Freeland can duke it out with President Doofus, doesn’t make her a Nazi. Ever take a look at Trump’s family tree? He won’t even release his university or tax records let alone his family tree. 

"And oh look, a casual Nazi SS memorial in Ontario.And oh look, a casual Nazi SS memorial in Ontario.
 - https://nypost.com/2020/07/18/defaced-nazi-memorial-in-canada-investigated-as-hate-crime/ "


Really? The New York Post is barely a step above the National Enquirer for making something out of nothing. Did you have a glance at their other headlines?
“Sick Nazi song goes viral on TikTok with more than 6.5 million views”,
“Louisiana lawmaker equates coronavirus mask mandates with Nazi Germany”,
“Finland scraps pre-Nazi swastika logo from Air Force”,
“Woman shot for stealing Nazi flag outside man's home”

You Americans are so gullible.

Orthopa already pointed out the racial police issues in your own country.

Show me a country without that problem. At least we don’t have a regular procession of police executions of black people.

Shouldn't throw rocks if you live in glass houses...

Let me point out something. You are taking a couple of tiny, insignificant things and trying to suggest they are comparable to the gigantic problems that exist in the US at this time. What you don't understand is that nearly every single thing the US does has a direct effect on Canada. We have a 3,000 mile border and you have 10 time our population and we run a close second to China as your largest trading partner. You let Covid-19 run out of control and do you think it respects borders? We bite the bullet, we stay home when we have to, we wear masks when asked, we suffer financially all in an effort to have some sort of control over a virus. But it would appear that your country, president and several of your Republican governors believe the economy is more important than people's lives and refuse to take logical precautions. You have no idea of how that threatens the people of our country.     

One other thing. When you elect a total idiot to run your country, we suffer just as much, or more, than you do, but WE DO NOT GET A VOTE.

Thank you for highlighting your hypocrisy. Make Trump or any Republican/conservative the person in any of these cases and you wouldn’t be here defending them.  :o

My point is made....
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 21, 2020, 05:17:51 PM
What point?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on July 21, 2020, 05:27:13 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/phoenix-police-release-body-cam-215552765.html

Notice a trend here? Education continues to be the biggest problem in America. Lots of dumbasses out there. Do what you're instructed. Drop the attitudes. Stay alive.... that solves your problem.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 21, 2020, 05:39:30 PM
What point?

If Trump wore blackface = racist

Trudeau does it plenty of times = no one believes Trudeau is racist.

As far as the economy goes, let's say the government didn't do any bailouts and we suffered a great depression. How many lives would it be worth to avoid that?

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 21, 2020, 05:50:39 PM
How can you have a point when what you said had no validity?

I have only recently come to realize what the real problem is with Trump and his followers - and this problem may well lead to the downfall of the Trump regime.

Trump primarily appeals to the far right. Because of that he, and his supporters believe that anyone who doesn't agree with them must be "Lefties".

But the problem is that they don't see themselves a FAR right and don't realize that originally Republicans were simply varying degrees on the right of center. So many of those "lefties" are actually on the moderate right.

I consider myself a slightly right of center conservative and would normally support a Republican or Conservative candidate. But because the extreme right cannot accept anything that reflects centrist or conservative-centrist views, they are losing the support of those on the right and that is very likely going to tip the scales in the upcoming election.

Then the real problems will begin - trying to get the bufoon out of the White House. It will be interesting times.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 21, 2020, 06:02:33 PM
"If Trump wore blackface = racist

Trudeau does it plenty of times = no one believes Trudeau is racist."


People are generally judged by more than a single incident. Trump has a long history of racism. Trudeau does not. I have no love for Mr Trudeau, but given his past history, he is a very unlikely racist.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 21, 2020, 06:40:27 PM
"If Trump wore blackface = racist

Trudeau does it plenty of times = no one believes Trudeau is racist."


People are generally judged by more than a single incident. Trump has a long history of racism. Trudeau does not. I have no love for Mr Trudeau, but given his past history, he is a very unlikely racist.

It wasn't a single incident. There are at least 3 instances of him doing this. Who knows what goes on in private.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 21, 2020, 06:43:11 PM
How can you have a point when what you said had no validity?

I have only recently come to realize what the real problem is with Trump and his followers - and this problem may well lead to the downfall of the Trump regime.

Trump primarily appeals to the far right. Because of that he, and his supporters believe that anyone who doesn't agree with them must be "Lefties".

But the problem is that they don't see themselves a FAR right and don't realize that originally Republicans were simply varying degrees on the right of center. So many of those "lefties" are actually on the moderate right.

I consider myself a slightly right of center conservative and would normally support a Republican or Conservative candidate. But because the extreme right cannot accept anything that reflects centrist or conservative-centrist views, they are losing the support of those on the right and that is very likely going to tip the scales in the upcoming election.

Then the real problems will begin - trying to get the bufoon out of the White House. It will be interesting times.

I would have no problem voting for a democratic. As I've said before I have never voted for a Republican presidential candidate. However, when Biden's wife is interviewing a drag queen on his official site, that is far left.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 21, 2020, 06:59:19 PM
"If Trump wore blackface = racist

Trudeau does it plenty of times = no one believes Trudeau is racist."


People are generally judged by more than a single incident. Trump has a long history of racism. Trudeau does not. I have no love for Mr Trudeau, but given his past history, he is a very unlikely racist.

It wasn't a single incident. There are at least 3 instances of him doing this. Who knows what goes on in private.

There is a vast difference between getting dressed up for costume parties and Trump's history of racism. 

Remember the Central Park Five where Trump spent 85,000 calling for the execution of five black & Hispanic kids - who, by the way, were later proved innocent. How about his actions as landlord? What about that crap about Obama’s birth certificate?

The fact that you see these as parallels is a real stretch of imagination.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Viking on July 21, 2020, 07:05:46 PM
Volume is what separates Trump from everyone else. Yes, Trudeau has done dumb things. Pretty much everyone has. Nobody is perfect.

Important factors:
1.) how often do they mess up
2.) what do they do when they are caught

Trump does something reprehensible pretty much every day. As an example, pretty much every time he opens his mouth he lies (knowingly says something that is not true).

And what does Trump do when caught in a lie? He denies it EVERY TIME.

The good news is more and more US voters appear to be actually holding him accountable for his actions... and as he continues to say and do terrible and despicable things he is seeing his support continuing to fall.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on July 22, 2020, 02:30:29 AM
Seems like some of the recent posts are getting close to Republican Voters sharing their own testimonials about how they won't vote for Trump here. Anyone else want to share?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 22, 2020, 04:46:00 AM
"If Trump wore blackface = racist

Trudeau does it plenty of times = no one believes Trudeau is racist."


People are generally judged by more than a single incident. Trump has a long history of racism. Trudeau does not. I have no love for Mr Trudeau, but given his past history, he is a very unlikely racist.

It wasn't a single incident. There are at least 3 instances of him doing this. Who knows what goes on in private.

There is a vast difference between getting dressed up for costume parties and Trump's history of racism. 

Remember the Central Park Five where Trump spent 85,000 calling for the execution of five black & Hispanic kids - who, by the way, were later proved innocent. How about his actions as landlord? What about that crap about Obama’s birth certificate?

The fact that you see these as parallels is a real stretch of imagination.

How do you know that Trump didn't want the death penalty as a crime deterrent rather than something to do with race?

How do you know that Trump's actions weren't more to do with credit scores or payment rather than skin color? Do you honesty think Trump would miss out on a dollar due to skin color? The dude seems pretty greedy to me.

The fact that it took Obama a very long time to produce the long form of his birth certificate did not raise confidence.

Do you really think you're being fair here? You dismiss Trudeau's racism because it "happened 20 years ago" but you do not give the same leeway to Trump.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on July 22, 2020, 02:34:07 PM
Quote
I would have no problem voting for a democratic. As I've said before I have never voted for a Republican presidential candidate. However, when Biden's wife is interviewing a drag queen on his official site, that is far left.

(https://rarlomagazine.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/wont-somebody-please-think-of-the-children.gif)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 22, 2020, 03:04:40 PM
I would have no problem voting for a democratic. As I've said before I have never voted for a Republican presidential candidate. However, when Biden's wife is interviewing a drag queen on his official site, that is far left.
I know, interviewing a drag queen is like confiscating property and nationalizing it. Scary stuff.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 22, 2020, 03:38:42 PM
I would have no problem voting for a democratic. As I've said before I have never voted for a Republican presidential candidate. However, when Biden's wife is interviewing a drag queen on his official site, that is far left.
I know, interviewing a drag queen is like confiscating property and nationalizing it. Scary stuff.

When the left pumps out stuff like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxdvOLdG_34

Yes, it is scary stuff.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/mother-11-year-old-drag-kid-who-performed-gay-bar-amanda-prestigiacomo


Perhaps we can be more inclusive and promote NAMBLA in the future too.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 22, 2020, 03:39:27 PM
Quote
I would have no problem voting for a democratic. As I've said before I have never voted for a Republican presidential candidate. However, when Biden's wife is interviewing a drag queen on his official site, that is far left.

(https://rarlomagazine.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/wont-somebody-please-think-of-the-children.gif)

Perhaps when you have kids, lc, your opinion will change. ;)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on July 22, 2020, 04:57:03 PM
You'd have to imagine any real progress on fixing the violence in some of these cities will help Trump with the minority vote. Many of these people have been begging for an end to the violence for years, and as you can see, if one REALLY wants to talk about "letting people die", the response from some of these mayors...particularly this loser in Chicago...well, there is literally blood on their hands. Not some "uhhh he didnt send in the national guard to force face masks on everyone" nonsense...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on July 22, 2020, 05:29:50 PM
Perhaps when you have kids, lc, your opinion will change. ;)
If having a child suddenly makes me so poorly judgmental of drag queens, as if god forbid my 11 year old wants to dress in drag, well then damn, I would be a really shitty father and human being.

I really do hope you're not speaking from experience here.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 22, 2020, 05:31:44 PM
Perhaps when you have kids, lc, your opinion will change. ;)
If having a child suddenly makes me so poorly judgmental of drag queens, as if god forbid my 11 year old wants to dress in drag, well then damn, I would be a really shitty father and human being.

I really do hope you're not speaking from experience here.


Do you think it's a good idea to teach kindergartners about gender identity? Would you be okay if your 11 year old wanted to dress in drag?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 22, 2020, 05:55:06 PM
You'd have to imagine any real progress on fixing the violence in some of these cities will help Trump with the minority vote. Many of these people have been begging for an end to the violence for years, and as you can see, if one REALLY wants to talk about "letting people die", the response from some of these mayors...particularly this loser in Chicago...well, there is literally blood on their hands. Not some "uhhh he didnt send in the national guard to force face masks on everyone" nonsense...


So many dying in Chicago because of our loser mayor - a real tragedy.  I think last night is the straw that broke the camels back. 15 people shot
in ONE INCIDENT.  60 bullets, at least, fired between blacks at a funeral home. Black Lives Matter ignores it. CNN and MSNBC ignores it.
The mayor blames escalation on Trump! when the President is now where to be found. NOTHING is the mayor's fault - it's Trump!

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on July 22, 2020, 06:06:31 PM
Wow, really earning that name "Chiraq" it seems. :-\

I don't know Chicago's local politics but this is exactly what the police should be tasked with worrying about. What the hell are they busy doing? What is the mayor doing?

Here in Denver our crime is negligible and our mayor (Hancock) busy siccing police on anyone  below the drinking age with colorful hair. Things died down for a bit a few weeks ago but tensions are flaring up again. Thankfully we don't have the gun violence that you are experiencing.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 22, 2020, 06:08:20 PM
Perhaps when you have kids, lc, your opinion will change. ;)
If having a child suddenly makes me so poorly judgmental of drag queens, as if god forbid my 11 year old wants to dress in drag, well then damn, I would be a really shitty father and human being.

I really do hope you're not speaking from experience here.

Do you think it's a good idea to teach kindergartners about gender identity? Would you be okay if your 11 year old wanted to dress in drag?
I think I was 5 or 6 when I dressed in drag. Nobody freaked out. Everyone thought it was cute and funny. There are pictures. It's in the family albums.

Perfect hetero dude here by the way. Love the pussy  ;D
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 22, 2020, 06:15:25 PM
Wow, really earning that name "Chiraq" it seems. :-\

I don't know Chicago's local politics but this is exactly what the police should be tasked with worrying about. What the hell are they busy doing? What is the mayor doing?

Here in Denver our crime is negligible and our mayor (Hancock) busy siccing police on anyone  below the drinking age with colorful hair. Things died down for a bit a few weeks ago but tensions are flaring up again. Thankfully we don't have the gun violence that you are experiencing.

The Mayor hates the police and tells them to "stand down" during all the rioting, etc.  This only changed recently.

Here's an "Open Letter" from a black police officer to the Mayor. Note, this Police officer grew up in one of the most dangerous hoods in Chicago (Englewood)

***AFRICAN AMERICAN CPD OFFICER PENS OPEN LETTER TO MAYOR ****
This evening I opened this message and was asked to share with my followers.  I will not reveal the sender's identity, but I am honoring the request:

Dear Mrs Mayor,

I have been a Chicago Police Officer for a little over 10 years now. I am also an African American man who grew up on the south side of Chicago-Englewood. Unlike you, I am a life long Chicagoan and pretty much know this city like the back of my hand. Growing up in Englewood, I’ve had several encounters with police (bad & good), gangs, and misc citizens.

This open letter is not about me though. I felt the need to express my disappointment and your genuine hate and lack of support that you show to the men and women of the Chicago police department.

As a black man I totally understand the state of the police across the country. I too have been beat by police in the past, profiled, and even illegally searched. I too also am smart enough to know that not all police are bad & a lot of police actually do speak out against the bad ones. Over the last couple of weeks it’s almost sickening how you have treated the men and women that protect your house every time 100s of protestors come and harass yourself, your wife, and your daughter. During civil unrest over the George Floyd incident, not once did you visit any injured officers, come to districts, or into the “trenches” or battlefield to check up on any men or women of the Chicago police department.

Fast forward to known Chicago police hater Bobby Rush. He claims over a dozen police officers BROKE INTO his office and STOLE popcorn and coffee. You ran with it and attempted to embarrass the officers and department just to later find out that they were ORDERED to be there by someone you more than likely promoted. Big press conference showing your support for Mr Rush but when the truth came out, not even an apology or follow up/ update.
Moving along, police Officer gets SHOT off duty in an attempted car jacking in the same city that he risk his life everyday in and serves. Did you visit him in the hospital or have an emergency news conference showing your disgust like you did over POPCORN and COFFEE? Of course not.

Another officer passes away due to possible exhaustion (accidental death) due to your untimely decision to cancel almost 8 straight days off working consecutive 12-16 hour shifts. I didn’t see you say anything. Not once did you thank or mention this officer for the sacrifice he made before his untimely passing.

Moving along again to recently. Officers were ATTACKED by unruly “protestors” having FIRE thrown at them, glass, frozen water bottles, etc. while you hide in a basement of OEMC building and watch from a distance. The best thing you could do in response is say “a few” people were being bad while several officers used “excessive force” and refer them to COPA after they were just battered, assaulted, and once again unsupported by you.
Fast forward a week ago and you hire and use tax money to pay a gentlemen with several videos stating “fuck 12” and “fuck the police” along with with a long slew of domestic violence charges, crime against household, and UUW. You refer to him as Chicago’s “Census Cowboy”.

This is the agenda you try to push versus support for the good men and women of the Chicago police department. Mrs. Mayor I don’t know if you know this but the men and women of the Chicago police department are who you should be fighting for yet it is well known and rumored that in meetings you’ve made statements stating you want to see officers “in jail.”

Again, I grew up in this city in arguable one if not the worst neighborhoods in Chicago and arguable the entire United States of America. I am not political at all and actually agree with you that our president is and can sometimes be a jackass. I also am smart enough to know a mayor should not go on national television and tell him “F U” then call for a police officer to be fired for raising his middle finger at unruly protestors. Your agenda against us police officers is sickening and very discouraging.

I invite you to have an open discussions with officers and get to know the real officers putting in the work, not the puppets you hand pick to guard your home.

Mrs. Mayor in the run off I actually gave you my vote and thought you would be the right fit. I was totally wrong and in fact under your reign it’s been several hundred homicides including almost 20 under the age of 15. You’ve publicly humiliated your hand picked superintendent and again, have showed your clear dislike for the men and women of the Chicago police department. Things won’t change or get better until you try to make it better ‘Car 1’. Us officers have fought the good fight with you and will continue to do it without your support.

God bless you Mrs. Mayor and God bless the city of Chicago.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 22, 2020, 06:28:13 PM
Wow, really earning that name "Chiraq" it seems. :-\

I don't know Chicago's local politics but this is exactly what the police should be tasked with worrying about. What the hell are they busy doing? What is the mayor doing?

Here in Denver our crime is negligible and our mayor (Hancock) busy siccing police on anyone  below the drinking age with colorful hair. Things died down for a bit a few weeks ago but tensions are flaring up again. Thankfully we don't have the gun violence that you are experiencing.
Is it weird that I walk around Chicago without any body armor and without fear?

It's one of my favourite cities and I'm there 6-8 times a year. I've never experienced anything close to the apocalyptic environment portrayed here. Apparently I should be very, very afraid but I've never found a reason to be. 🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 22, 2020, 07:07:46 PM
Perhaps when you have kids, lc, your opinion will change. ;)
If having a child suddenly makes me so poorly judgmental of drag queens, as if god forbid my 11 year old wants to dress in drag, well then damn, I would be a really shitty father and human being.

I really do hope you're not speaking from experience here.

Do you think it's a good idea to teach kindergartners about gender identity? Would you be okay if your 11 year old wanted to dress in drag?
I think I was 5 or 6 when I dressed in drag. Nobody freaked out. Everyone thought it was cute and funny. There are pictures. It's in the family albums.

Perfect hetero dude here by the way. Love the pussy  ;D

Care to answer my questions? ;)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on July 22, 2020, 07:12:16 PM
I think I already did.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 22, 2020, 07:18:52 PM
Wow, really earning that name "Chiraq" it seems. :-\

I don't know Chicago's local politics but this is exactly what the police should be tasked with worrying about. What the hell are they busy doing? What is the mayor doing?

Here in Denver our crime is negligible and our mayor (Hancock) busy siccing police on anyone  below the drinking age with colorful hair. Things died down for a bit a few weeks ago but tensions are flaring up again. Thankfully we don't have the gun violence that you are experiencing.
Is it weird that I walk around Chicago without any body armor and without fear?

It's one of my favourite cities and I'm there 6-8 times a year. I've never experienced anything close to the apocalyptic environment portrayed here. Apparently I should be very, very afraid but I've never found a reason to be. 🤷‍♂️

Chicago is highly segregated - that is the main reason you didn't experience it. There are neighborhoods where many Chicagoans have never been.
You do not go to the South Side or the West Side - those are very dangerous places.

One of the big differences this year - is the rioting came to Michigan Avenue and Oak Street and The Magnificent Mile.
It was all trashed and boarded up.  But the murders are happening on the South and West side - very large neighborhoods.
White people don't go there.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 22, 2020, 07:20:58 PM
I think I already did.

Well, I don't see an answer. You just said that you dressed in drag when you were young. Was it really drag (ie makeup, full on female attire) or was it like wearing your sister's shirt?

My 1 year old tries to wear his sister's shoes sometimes but that's not drag.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/nbc-promotes-11-year-old-drag-kid-who-performed-amanda-prestigiacomo

Do think it's okay that an 11 year old boy performed at a gay bar?

"In December, the 11-year-old boy, dressed in full-drag as a Gwen Stefani-lookalike, danced on stage at a gay bar in Brooklyn, New York, called 3 Dollar Bill. As he took off his coat and revealed his outfit, he bounced around onstage to No Doubt’s “Like a Girl”; cheering grown men were handing him single dollar bills, as you might see in a strip club."
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 22, 2020, 07:45:22 PM
“Chicago is highly segregated - that is the main reason you didn't experience it. There are neighborhoods where many Chicagoans have never been.
You do not go to the South Side or the West Side - those are very dangerous places.

One of the big differences this year - is the rioting came to Michigan Avenue and Oak Street and The Magnificent Mile.
It was all trashed and boarded up.  But the murders are happening on the South and West side - very large neighborhoods.
White people don't go there.”


Very scary place.

Years ago I was traveling through NYC late at night and realized I was very low on gas. I spotted a small 2 pump gas station, pulled up and started pumping gas. Car pulls up on the other side of the pumps and a nicely dressed black guy gets out, takes a look at me, then does a double take and with some incredulity and says, “Man, whatcha doing here man?” I said “Just getting some gas”, he says “Man, you shouldn’t otta be here. You get your gas and I’ll stay here until your done, but hurry.”

I did, but I still don’t know where I was.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on July 22, 2020, 09:04:40 PM
I think I already did.

Well, I don't see an answer. You just said that you dressed in drag when you were young. Was it really drag (ie makeup, full on female attire) or was it like wearing your sister's shirt?

My 1 year old tries to wear his sister's shoes sometimes but that's not drag.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/nbc-promotes-11-year-old-drag-kid-who-performed-amanda-prestigiacomo

Do think it's okay that an 11 year old boy performed at a gay bar?

"In December, the 11-year-old boy, dressed in full-drag as a Gwen Stefani-lookalike, danced on stage at a gay bar in Brooklyn, New York, called 3 Dollar Bill. As he took off his coat and revealed his outfit, he bounced around onstage to No Doubt’s “Like a Girl”; cheering grown men were handing him single dollar bills, as you might see in a strip club."

You do realize young girls have been paraded around in beauty pageants for decades, at the pleasure of their supporters and creepy fans, with them/their parents winning lucrative prizes, sponsorship contracts, modelling/advertising gigs, music/acting careers, etc., and I don't see you labeling them the "far right".

Beyonce, Justin Timberlake, Selena Gomez, Demi Lovato, Katy Perry, Blake Shelton, Britney Spears....is this the far right?

You criticize the behavior of people you disagree with, while ignoring the same behavior from those you agree with.

Hell, Trump himself ran beauty pageants for years, hanging out backstage around naked teenage girls.
And you have the nerve to criticize Jill Biden for interviewing a drag queen?

You better believe in a god, because only a miracle can restore any of your credibility on some of these topics...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 23, 2020, 04:37:46 AM
I think I already did.

Well, I don't see an answer. You just said that you dressed in drag when you were young. Was it really drag (ie makeup, full on female attire) or was it like wearing your sister's shirt?

My 1 year old tries to wear his sister's shoes sometimes but that's not drag.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/nbc-promotes-11-year-old-drag-kid-who-performed-amanda-prestigiacomo

Do think it's okay that an 11 year old boy performed at a gay bar?

"In December, the 11-year-old boy, dressed in full-drag as a Gwen Stefani-lookalike, danced on stage at a gay bar in Brooklyn, New York, called 3 Dollar Bill. As he took off his coat and revealed his outfit, he bounced around onstage to No Doubt’s “Like a Girl”; cheering grown men were handing him single dollar bills, as you might see in a strip club."

You do realize young girls have been paraded around in beauty pageants for decades, at the pleasure of their supporters and creepy fans, with them/their parents winning lucrative prizes, sponsorship contracts, modelling/advertising gigs, music/acting careers, etc., and I don't see you labeling them the "far right".

Beyonce, Justin Timberlake, Selena Gomez, Demi Lovato, Katy Perry, Blake Shelton, Britney Spears....is this the far right?

You criticize the behavior of people you disagree with, while ignoring the same behavior from those you agree with.

Hell, Trump himself ran beauty pageants for years, hanging out backstage around naked teenage girls.
And you have the nerve to criticize Jill Biden for interviewing a drag queen?

You better believe in a god, because only a miracle can restore any of your credibility on some of these topics...

I think beauty pageants are wrong ,too. We should not be sexualizing our children - regardless of what side you're on. Though I do think a girl dressing up is less bad than a child dancing sexually in front of adults as they give him money as the lesser of the two evils.

Trump is a giant turd. As I've told you before, I think he's administration will probably go down as one of the most corrupt ever. I don't want to vote for the guy. But, if it's between Trump's corruption and my kids coming home asking what gender they are, I know which way I'm voting.

I do know one thing though, that if God doesn't exist, nothing any of us do is really "wrong" anyway. ;)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on July 23, 2020, 08:36:11 AM
Unsurprisingly, no miracle occurred :/
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 23, 2020, 08:42:08 AM
Unsurprisingly, no miracle occurred :/

Oh, perhaps it did. I went from being a liberal to conservative since liberals are insane. I stopped being a puppet. ;)

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on July 23, 2020, 09:55:57 AM

I think beauty pageants are wrong ,too. We should not be sexualizing our children - regardless of what side you're on. Though I do think a girl dressing up is less bad than a child dancing sexually in front of adults as they give him money as the lesser of the two evils.

Trump is a giant turd. As I've told you before, I think he's administration will probably go down as one of the most corrupt ever. I don't want to vote for the guy. But, if it's between Trump's corruption and my kids coming home asking what gender they are, I know which way I'm voting.

I do know one thing though, that if God doesn't exist, nothing any of us do is really "wrong" anyway. ;)

I think it is possible that we can have both Biden as President and for it to be highly improbable for your kids to be asking what their gender is.

I also think it is possible that the most corrupt President in history, if elected again, can cause irreversible damage to our institutions and alliances with other nations AND for there to be a non-zero chance your kids will be confused about their gender.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on July 23, 2020, 10:22:34 AM

I think beauty pageants are wrong ,too. We should not be sexualizing our children - regardless of what side you're on. Though I do think a girl dressing up is less bad than a child dancing sexually in front of adults as they give him money as the lesser of the two evils.

Trump is a giant turd. As I've told you before, I think he's administration will probably go down as one of the most corrupt ever. I don't want to vote for the guy. But, if it's between Trump's corruption and my kids coming home asking what gender they are, I know which way I'm voting.

I do know one thing though, that if God doesn't exist, nothing any of us do is really "wrong" anyway. ;)

I think it is possible that we can have both Biden as President and for it to be highly improbable for your kids to be asking what their gender is.

I also think it is possible that the most corrupt President in history, if elected again, can cause irreversible damage to our institutions and alliances with other nations AND for there to be a non-zero chance your kids will be confused about their gender.

Sure but I care more about my kids than I do about the alliances that keep the rich in power.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 23, 2020, 01:30:30 PM
“Chicago is highly segregated - that is the main reason you didn't experience it. There are neighborhoods where many Chicagoans have never been.
You do not go to the South Side or the West Side - those are very dangerous places.

One of the big differences this year - is the rioting came to Michigan Avenue and Oak Street and The Magnificent Mile.
It was all trashed and boarded up.  But the murders are happening on the South and West side - very large neighborhoods.
White people don't go there.”


Very scary place.

Years ago I was traveling through NYC late at night and realized I was very low on gas. I spotted a small 2 pump gas station, pulled up and started pumping gas. Car pulls up on the other side of the pumps and a nicely dressed black guy gets out, takes a look at me, then does a double take and with some incredulity and says, “Man, whatcha doing here man?” I said “Just getting some gas”, he says “Man, you shouldn’t otta be here. You get your gas and I’ll stay here until your done, but hurry.”

I did, but I still don’t know where I was.

Yes, it is hard to believe there are people that have to live in those neighborhoods. That is their experience every day. When you are white, of course, you just stand out like a sore thumb. But blacks have to navigate their way around those experiences all the time. Imagine trying to keep your kids safe there, let alone yourself.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on July 23, 2020, 01:42:50 PM
I know it is easy for me to say, but if I was in that situation I would do everything in my power to get out of there. Other than that, I have no idea of how that situation is ever going to be resolved.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 23, 2020, 02:12:50 PM
I know it is easy for me to say, but if I was in that situation I would do everything in my power to get out of there. Other than that, I have no idea of how that situation is ever going to be resolved.

That is exactly what happens - anyone with means just leaves. Unfortunately for elected officials, their job is to keep the remainder of the
population safe, which they are not doing. It's really breaking down now.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: SharperDingaan on July 27, 2020, 11:41:35 AM
Trumpkins! Limited term engagement! Collectors edition!
Get 'em while they last  :)

https://shirtofamazon.com/product/trumpkin-orange-outside-hollow-inside-shirt/#:~:text=Trumpkin%20orange%20on%20the%20outside%20hollow%20on%20the,on%20the%20outside%20hollow%20on%20the%20inside%20shirt.

SD
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on July 27, 2020, 06:24:46 PM
Check this out, even the neo nazis are coming out in support of BLM:

https://www.wsls.com/news/virginia/2020/07/27/police-richmond-riots-instigated-by-white-supremacists-disguised-as-black-lives-matter/

 :-\
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 27, 2020, 06:35:32 PM
Check this out, even the neo nazis are coming out in support of BLM:

https://www.wsls.com/news/virginia/2020/07/27/police-richmond-riots-instigated-by-white-supremacists-disguised-as-black-lives-matter/

 :-\

Damn!  The LEFT can keep them!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on July 29, 2020, 08:49:25 AM
You are correct & I agree that one way to drain China of its capital is via trade.  IMO I think it will take much more, a Cold War mentality until China sets the information free.  It is a disruption that needs some investment from the West to reach fruition.  I hope more folks will take China at its word that it wants to gain control of information to control its people & the narrative it projects.  Biden’s approach to China via TPP is dancing around the edges & does not deal with fundamental issue China & control & IMO will have marginal impact on China’s actions.

Packer

https://www.cato.org/blog/what-would-trade-policy-look-under-president-joe-biden

Biden was supportive of TPP when he was VP and he's stated he will rejoin if he wins. Of course he has said he will change some of the terms, because he needs the socialist support, but he's made it clear we need to isolate China. Trump is like a broken clock, sometimes he's right, but I don't think he has any real moral compass, values, or beliefs. His foreign policy has been rather week particularly with Russia, in terms of alienating NATO allies and being way too soft on Putin. Maybe the trade wars with China will help, idk, but I don't see tarrifs against European allies as helpful.

I just do not have enough confidence that Joe has the "vision" of what needs to be done to deal with autocracies, namely trade sanctions & disinvestment & Biden is going to fritter away trillions of dollars on green projects that have already reached market sustainability in terms of costs.  I agree about Russia but I see Russia as a declining autocratic power (with advantages in the age of oil & mobility vs. current internet age) vs. China a rising autocratic power.

Packer

But Biden has laid out a plan and recognizes the threat of China. The Obama Administration created TPP which you agree would have isolated China. Trump pulled out, and has alienated allies through tarriffs and by pulling away troops. Biden was and is clearly in support of TPP. If you agree about Russia, but are not as concerned because it is "declining", I would reconsider. It has the 2nd largest nuclear arsenal outside of the U.S., and that should always be a cause for concern no matter how much smaller it becomes. And let's not forget one of the main reasons Russia has lost standing is because of NATO, which once again Trump is undermining. Now in fairness, Obama fucked up with Crimea, but I still trust Biden over Trump to handle Russia (and China) because I don't think Biden is compromised.

What an embarrassment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HzB2tAUd64
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on July 29, 2020, 11:46:24 AM
Yeah, right Biden is not compromised in regards to the Ukraine, considering his extortion of Ukraine for the enrichment of Hunter.

You must be kidding...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on July 30, 2020, 07:47:38 AM
To the topic: There won't be any Republican (or Democrat) voters against Trump, if he gets his wish and the election is delayed!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288818160389558273

Won't happen (wasn't even delayed during the civil war), but can you believe what a fool this guy is to even suggest it?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on July 30, 2020, 08:55:10 AM
To the topic: There won't be any Republican (or Democrat) voters against Trump, if he gets his wish and the election is delayed!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288818160389558273

Won't happen (wasn't even delayed during the civil war), but can you believe what a fool this guy is to even suggest it?

Not foolish, just another ploy to add authoritarian elements to our political discourse. Note, he's attacked the integrity of the election process since the very beginning, and getting more obnoxious, but at this point that tactic has been more normalized, so now he moves to something more absurd - suggesting delaying the election. Now we just accept that in the same tweet he's also attacking the voting process, because this is already part of the typical political discourse these days and doesn't raise as many eyebrows.

Never mind that he has no power to do delay the election, that's irrelevant.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on July 30, 2020, 09:09:07 AM
Only Congress and State Legislators can change the election date.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on July 30, 2020, 10:08:06 AM
Only Congress and State Legislators can change the election date.

I know. But that is besides the point here.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on July 30, 2020, 11:01:57 AM
Only Congress and State Legislators can change the election date.

I know. But that is besides the point here.

Why? It's a nothing burger.

Just another Trump marketing tactic.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on July 30, 2020, 11:53:19 AM
This is a month old, but I just saw it and it's pretty interesting ad using Lindsay Graham's words:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5Xpwyd4aMM
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 01, 2020, 03:19:58 AM
This is pretty solid gold:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmgN5vhBAws
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 01, 2020, 09:22:55 AM
read and rb,  please stop with the hate speech. Both of your posts are very offensive.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 01, 2020, 09:31:01 AM
read and rb,  please stop with the hate speech. Both of your posts are very offensive.

Stahley - If you are on the LEFT - it is allowed. Remember??
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 01, 2020, 10:01:36 AM
read and rb,  please stop with the hate speech. Both of your posts are very offensive.

Stahley - If you are on the LEFT - it is allowed. Remember??

No, no, no, no, no! Stop! They are NOT liberals. Theyre actually really, really, conservative! They swear. They would totally have voted for Reagan, hmmm, 2020-1984=36 years, so like 2-3 decades ago! And they'd have been fine with Romney too if not for those damn Russians who changed their votes at the ballot box, back when Russia wasn't a threat because the 1980's called.

It is actually YOU GUYS! The one who voted for Obama and the other who has never cast a vote for Trump, that are the brainwashed MAGA thumpers! Durp.....

I think we need to give them a break. They are exhausted from being wrong continuously for the past 3 years and are overwhelmed by all the cluster around their homes. What seems to be a huge pile of what they thought were smoking guns but actually turned out to be broken, plastic, little kids water pistols.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Viking on August 01, 2020, 10:45:54 AM
This is a month old, but I just saw it and it's pretty interesting ad using Lindsay Graham's words:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5Xpwyd4aMM

It is pretty instructive to listen to what Graham, a Republican, thinks about Trump and Biden. Based on what i have seen the past 3 years Graham’s take looks pretty informed.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 01, 2020, 02:03:16 PM
This is a month old, but I just saw it and it's pretty interesting ad using Lindsay Graham's words:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5Xpwyd4aMM
An article about the source and creation of this ad:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/lindsey-graham-ad-trump-joe-biden-us-election-2020-republican-a9567211.html
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 01, 2020, 02:13:28 PM
This is not associated with the organization Republicans Voters Against Trump to the best of my knowledge, but it is a Republican voter who now appears to be against Trump. He also has written op-eds in the past defending Trump. Not so much this time.

Quote
Trump Might Try to Postpone the Election. That’s Unconstitutional.
He should be removed unless he relents.

By Steven G. Calabresi

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/opinion/trump-delay-election-coronavirus.html

Quote
I have voted Republican in every presidential election since 1980, including voting for Donald Trump in 2016. I wrote op-eds and a law review article protesting what I believe was an unconstitutional investigation by Robert Mueller. I also wrote an op-ed opposing President Trump’s impeachment.

But I am frankly appalled by the president’s recent tweet seeking to postpone the November election. Until recently, I had taken as political hyperbole the Democrats’ assertion that President Trump is a fascist. But this latest tweet is fascistic and is itself grounds for the president’s immediate impeachment again by the House of Representatives and his removal from office by the Senate.

...

President Trump needs to be told by every Republican in Congress that he cannot postpone the federal election. Doing so would be illegal, unconstitutional and without precedent in American history. Anyone who says otherwise should never be elected to Congress again.

Steven G. Calabresi is a co-founder of the Federalist Society and a professor at Northwestern University’s Pritzker School of Law.

If you're not well aware of what the Federalist Society is and it's role in electing Trump and it's influence on the Trump administration, I would recommend you check them out. Here's a start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Society
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 01, 2020, 03:48:37 PM
read and rb,  please stop with the hate speech. Both of your posts are very offensive.
LOOL hate speech? 🤣
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 01, 2020, 07:39:26 PM
Yes, it's hate speech. You guys hate him and you make fun of him. Therefore it's hate speech.

Isn't that what the left does? If they don't like something, label whatever is said as hate speech and call them a somethingophobe?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 01, 2020, 09:11:59 PM
This is not associated with the organization Republicans Voters Against Trump to the best of my knowledge, but it is a Republican voter who now appears to be against Trump. He also has written op-eds in the past defending Trump. Not so much this time.

Quote
Trump Might Try to Postpone the Election. That’s Unconstitutional.
He should be removed unless he relents.

By Steven G. Calabresi

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/opinion/trump-delay-election-coronavirus.html

Quote
I have voted Republican in every presidential election since 1980, including voting for Donald Trump in 2016. I wrote op-eds and a law review article protesting what I believe was an unconstitutional investigation by Robert Mueller. I also wrote an op-ed opposing President Trump’s impeachment.

But I am frankly appalled by the president’s recent tweet seeking to postpone the November election. Until recently, I had taken as political hyperbole the Democrats’ assertion that President Trump is a fascist. But this latest tweet is fascistic and is itself grounds for the president’s immediate impeachment again by the House of Representatives and his removal from office by the Senate.

...

President Trump needs to be told by every Republican in Congress that he cannot postpone the federal election. Doing so would be illegal, unconstitutional and without precedent in American history. Anyone who says otherwise should never be elected to Congress again.

Steven G. Calabresi is a co-founder of the Federalist Society and a professor at Northwestern University’s Pritzker School of Law.

If you're not well aware of what the Federalist Society is and it's role in electing Trump and it's influence on the Trump administration, I would recommend you check them out. Here's a start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Society

Co-founder of the Federalist Society calling out Trump's autocratic behavior? What a libtard!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Jurgis on August 01, 2020, 10:20:58 PM
read and rb,  please stop with the hate speech. Both of your posts are very offensive.
LOOL hate speech? 🤣

Whatz with da hatin' homies? Da prezident iz for looove. He be grabbin' ya by the pu$$y anytime he wantz. And shootin' ya on the 5th avenue bitchez. Dat'z wat looove iz. Capeesh yo modafukas? So stoppa yo hatin' nowz.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 02, 2020, 12:07:11 AM
Looks like someone had their first beer tonight! Congrats Jurgas. Just remember, always drink responsibly!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 02, 2020, 10:22:34 AM
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.


                           An explanation of why some think Trump supporters are stupid.

Here’s what the majority of anti-Trump voters honestly feel about Trump supporters en masse:

That when you saw a man who had owned a fraudulent University, intent on scamming poor people, you thought "Fine." (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/04/10/trump-university-settlement-judge-finalized/502387002/)

That when you saw a man who had made it his business practice to stiff his creditors, you said, "Okay." (https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-hotel-paid-millions-in-fines-for-unpaid-work)

That when you heard him proudly brag about his own history of sexual abuse, you said, "No problem." (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-trumps-accusers-allegations-sexual-misconduct/story?id=51956410)

That when he made up stories about seeing Muslim-Americans in the thousands cheering the destruction of the World Trade Center, you said, "Not an issue." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/22/donald-trumps-outrageous-claim-that-thousands-of-new-jersey-muslims-celebrated-the-911-attacks/)

That when you saw him brag that he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and you wouldn't care, you exclaimed, "He sure knows me." (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/23/president-donald-trump-could-shoot-someone-without-prosecution/4073405002/)

That when you heard him relating a story of an elderly guest of his country club, an 80-year old man, who fell off a stage and hit his head, to Trump replied: “‘Oh my God, that’s disgusting,’ and I turned away. I couldn’t—you know, he was right in front of me, and I turned away. I didn’t want to touch him. He was bleeding all over the place. And I felt terrible, because it was a beautiful white marble floor, and now it had changed color. Became very red.” You said, "That's cool!" (https://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-howard-stern-story)
That when you saw him mock the disabled, you thought it was the funniest thing you ever saw. (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/donald-trump-criticized-after-he-appears-mock-reporter-serge-kovaleski-n470016)

That when you heard him brag that he doesn't read books, you said, "Well, who has time?" (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/americas-first-post-text-president/549794/)

That when the Central Park Five were compensated as innocent men convicted of a crime they didn't commit, and he angrily said that they should still be in prison, you said, "That makes sense." (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/19/what-trump-has-said-central-park-five/1501321001/)

That when you heard him tell his supporters to beat up protesters and that he would hire attorneys, you thought, "Yes!" (https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html)

That when you heard him tell one rally to confiscate a man's coat before throwing him out into the freezing cold, you said, "What a great guy!" (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-orders-protesters-coat-is-confiscated-and-he-is-sent-into-the-cold-a6802756.html)

That you have watched the parade of neo-Nazis and white supremacists with whom he curries favor, while refusing to condemn outright Nazis, and you have said, "Thumbs up!" (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/why-cant-trump-just-condemn-nazis/567320/)

That you hear him unable to talk to foreign dignitaries without insulting their countries and demanding that they praise his electoral win, you said, "That's the way I want my President to be." (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-insult-foreign-countries-leaders_n_59dd2769e4b0b26332e76d57)

That you have watched him remove expertise from all layers of government in favor of people who make money off of eliminating protections in the industries they're supposed to be regulating and you have said, "What a genius!" (https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/12/29/138-trump-policy-changes-2017-000603)

That you have heard him continue to profit from his businesses, in part by leveraging his position as President, to the point of overcharging the Secret Service for space in the properties he owns, and you have said, "That's smart!" (https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2018-03-05/how-is-donald-trump-profiting-from-the-presidency-let-us-count-the-ways)

That you have heard him say that it was difficult to help Puerto Rico because it was in the middle of water and you have said, "That makes sense." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/09/26/the-very-big-ocean-between-here-and-puerto-rico-is-not-a-perfect-excuse-for-a-lack-of-aid/)

That you have seen him start fights with every country from Canada to New Zealand while praising Russia and quote, "falling in love" with the dictator of North Korea, and you have said, "That's statesmanship!" (https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/02/politics/donald-trump-dictators-kim-jong-un-vladimir-putin/index.html)

That Trump separated children from their families and put them in cages, managed to lose track of 1500 kids, has opened a tent city incarceration camp in the desert in Texas - he explains that they’re just “animals” - and you say, “Well, OK then.” (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/more-5-400-children-split-border-according-new-count-n1071791)

That you have witnessed all the thousand and one other manifestations of corruption and low moral character and outright animalistic rudeness and contempt for you, the working American voter, and you still show up grinning and wearing your MAGA hats and threatening to beat up anybody who says otherwise. (https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2018/06/04/451570/confronting-cost-trumps-corruption-american-families/)

What you don't get, Trump supporters, is that our succumbing to frustration and shaking our heads, thinking of you as stupid, may very well be wrong and unhelpful, but it's also...hear me...charitable.

Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.


Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 02, 2020, 10:53:20 AM
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.


                           An explanation of why some think Trump supporters are stupid.

Here’s what the majority of anti-Trump voters honestly feel about Trump supporters en masse:

That when you saw a man who had owned a fraudulent University, intent on scamming poor people, you thought "Fine." (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/04/10/trump-university-settlement-judge-finalized/502387002/)

That when you saw a man who had made it his business practice to stiff his creditors, you said, "Okay." (https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-hotel-paid-millions-in-fines-for-unpaid-work)

That when you heard him proudly brag about his own history of sexual abuse, you said, "No problem." (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-trumps-accusers-allegations-sexual-misconduct/story?id=51956410)

That when he made up stories about seeing Muslim-Americans in the thousands cheering the destruction of the World Trade Center, you said, "Not an issue." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/22/donald-trumps-outrageous-claim-that-thousands-of-new-jersey-muslims-celebrated-the-911-attacks/)

That when you saw him brag that he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and you wouldn't care, you exclaimed, "He sure knows me." (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/23/president-donald-trump-could-shoot-someone-without-prosecution/4073405002/)

That when you heard him relating a story of an elderly guest of his country club, an 80-year old man, who fell off a stage and hit his head, to Trump replied: “‘Oh my God, that’s disgusting,’ and I turned away. I couldn’t—you know, he was right in front of me, and I turned away. I didn’t want to touch him. He was bleeding all over the place. And I felt terrible, because it was a beautiful white marble floor, and now it had changed color. Became very red.” You said, "That's cool!" (https://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-howard-stern-story)
That when you saw him mock the disabled, you thought it was the funniest thing you ever saw. (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/donald-trump-criticized-after-he-appears-mock-reporter-serge-kovaleski-n470016)

That when you heard him brag that he doesn't read books, you said, "Well, who has time?" (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/americas-first-post-text-president/549794/)

That when the Central Park Five were compensated as innocent men convicted of a crime they didn't commit, and he angrily said that they should still be in prison, you said, "That makes sense." (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/19/what-trump-has-said-central-park-five/1501321001/)

That when you heard him tell his supporters to beat up protesters and that he would hire attorneys, you thought, "Yes!" (https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html)

That when you heard him tell one rally to confiscate a man's coat before throwing him out into the freezing cold, you said, "What a great guy!" (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-orders-protesters-coat-is-confiscated-and-he-is-sent-into-the-cold-a6802756.html)

That you have watched the parade of neo-Nazis and white supremacists with whom he curries favor, while refusing to condemn outright Nazis, and you have said, "Thumbs up!" (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/why-cant-trump-just-condemn-nazis/567320/)

That you hear him unable to talk to foreign dignitaries without insulting their countries and demanding that they praise his electoral win, you said, "That's the way I want my President to be." (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-insult-foreign-countries-leaders_n_59dd2769e4b0b26332e76d57)

That you have watched him remove expertise from all layers of government in favor of people who make money off of eliminating protections in the industries they're supposed to be regulating and you have said, "What a genius!" (https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/12/29/138-trump-policy-changes-2017-000603)

That you have heard him continue to profit from his businesses, in part by leveraging his position as President, to the point of overcharging the Secret Service for space in the properties he owns, and you have said, "That's smart!" (https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2018-03-05/how-is-donald-trump-profiting-from-the-presidency-let-us-count-the-ways)

That you have heard him say that it was difficult to help Puerto Rico because it was in the middle of water and you have said, "That makes sense." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/09/26/the-very-big-ocean-between-here-and-puerto-rico-is-not-a-perfect-excuse-for-a-lack-of-aid/)

That you have seen him start fights with every country from Canada to New Zealand while praising Russia and quote, "falling in love" with the dictator of North Korea, and you have said, "That's statesmanship!" (https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/02/politics/donald-trump-dictators-kim-jong-un-vladimir-putin/index.html)

That Trump separated children from their families and put them in cages, managed to lose track of 1500 kids, has opened a tent city incarceration camp in the desert in Texas - he explains that they’re just “animals” - and you say, “Well, OK then.” (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/more-5-400-children-split-border-according-new-count-n1071791)

That you have witnessed all the thousand and one other manifestations of corruption and low moral character and outright animalistic rudeness and contempt for you, the working American voter, and you still show up grinning and wearing your MAGA hats and threatening to beat up anybody who says otherwise. (https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2018/06/04/451570/confronting-cost-trumps-corruption-american-families/)

What you don't get, Trump supporters, is that our succumbing to frustration and shaking our heads, thinking of you as stupid, may very well be wrong and unhelpful, but it's also...hear me...charitable.

Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.


Or, as it's been explained to you probably dozens of times....some people just realize voting for the Republican candidate will increase the likelihood of policies they favor being implemented, moreso than the Democrat. And vice versa. Its strange people go to such lengths to bridge this into the above. As stupid as claiming anyone who voted for Obama supports smoking. So these people may "think" such and such are "stupid" or whatever. But the joke is on them. They've totally lost their minds the past 3 years and been trolled endlessly by a buffoon like Trump.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Viking on August 02, 2020, 11:13:02 AM
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.
Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.[/b]

Or, as it's been explained to you probably dozens of times....some people just realize voting for the Republican candidate will increase the likelihood of policies they favor being implemented, moreso than the Democrat. And vice versa. Its strange people go to such lengths to bridge this into the above. As stupid as claiming anyone who voted for Obama supports smoking. So these people may "think" such and such are "stupid" or whatever. But the joke is on them. They've totally lost their minds the past 3 years and been trolled endlessly by a buffoon like Trump.

So if Charles Manson or Ted Bundy were on the Republican ticket today large number of people would vote for them?

Trump is not a ‘buffoon’; through his words and actions he has demonstrated he is much worse than that (and that is where the examples above are instructive).
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 02, 2020, 11:56:39 AM
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.
Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.[/b]

Or, as it's been explained to you probably dozens of times....some people just realize voting for the Republican candidate will increase the likelihood of policies they favor being implemented, moreso than the Democrat. And vice versa. Its strange people go to such lengths to bridge this into the above. As stupid as claiming anyone who voted for Obama supports smoking. So these people may "think" such and such are "stupid" or whatever. But the joke is on them. They've totally lost their minds the past 3 years and been trolled endlessly by a buffoon like Trump.

So if Charles Manson or Ted Bundy were on the Republican ticket today large number of people would vote for them?

Trump is not a ‘buffoon’; through his words and actions he has demonstrated he is much worse than that (and that is where the examples above are instructive).

This is an invalid way to respond. I'd imagine its largely emotionally driven. Ted Bundy or Charles Manson would be be ineligible to run. If they were able to run, it would be due to the fact that they met certain criteria; in other words, if they weren't known for the things that you associate with them, then yes, they'd be eligible and if they got through all the preliminaries, people would probably vote for them. Donald Trump, despite all the hooting and hollering and ranting and raving, has never been convicted of a crime and was just as eligible to run as any other candidate.

Further, almost every provable liberal talking point about Trump, has thus far been debunked, with the granddaddy of them all, being the "Russia Collusion" hoax. As long as people can say racist, sexist, homophobic, bigot, etc, without any consequence, and without any way to prove/disprove it, it will continue. Just remember though, the same folks that screamed "Racism" when Trump banned certain flights back in January/February are also largely the same folks who continue to cry about how Trump "didnt do enough" to fight COVID. The same ones yelling "racist" are also the same ones also claiming Trudeau isn't actually racist, despite there being more concrete(non opinion based) evidence of the later guy(Trudeau) than the former(Trump).
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Viking on August 02, 2020, 12:50:09 PM
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.
Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.[/b]

Or, as it's been explained to you probably dozens of times....some people just realize voting for the Republican candidate will increase the likelihood of policies they favor being implemented, moreso than the Democrat. And vice versa. Its strange people go to such lengths to bridge this into the above. As stupid as claiming anyone who voted for Obama supports smoking. So these people may "think" such and such are "stupid" or whatever. But the joke is on them. They've totally lost their minds the past 3 years and been trolled endlessly by a buffoon like Trump.

So if Charles Manson or Ted Bundy were on the Republican ticket today large number of people would vote for them?

Trump is not a ‘buffoon’; through his words and actions he has demonstrated he is much worse than that (and that is where the examples above are instructive).

This is an invalid way to respond. I'd imagine its largely emotionally driven. Ted Bundy or Charles Manson would be be ineligible to run. If they were able to run, it would be due to the fact that they met certain criteria; in other words, if they weren't known for the things that you associate with them, then yes, they'd be eligible and if they got through all the preliminaries, people would probably vote for them. Donald Trump, despite all the hooting and hollering and ranting and raving, has never been convicted of a crime and was just as eligible to run as any other candidate.

Further, almost every provable liberal talking point about Trump, has thus far been debunked, with the granddaddy of them all, being the "Russia Collusion" hoax. As long as people can say racist, sexist, homophobic, bigot, etc, without any consequence, and without any way to prove/disprove it, it will continue. Just remember though, the same folks that screamed "Racism" when Trump banned certain flights back in January/February are also largely the same folks who continue to cry about how Trump "didnt do enough" to fight COVID. The same ones yelling "racist" are also the same ones also claiming Trudeau isn't actually racist, despite there being more concrete(non opinion based) evidence of the later guy(Trudeau) than the former(Trump).

My point, which i think was missed, is there are obviously limits to what many (yes, not all) voters will tolerate from those running for office (in terms of what they say and do). The ‘able to secure the nomination’ threshold is an interesting way to look at it. More and more voters appears to have had enough of Trump’s behaviour. We will know much more in 90 days.

My assessment of Trump is based primarily on listening to what he says and watching what he does (not ‘liberal talking points’). I like to get first hand information as much as possible. It is also helpful to hear first hand accounts from those who have worked very closely with Trump in the past: there are enough of these accounts out there to provide some further colour to the painting.

Clearly you have a different take on Trump. I can respect and understand that.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Spekulatius on August 02, 2020, 12:58:36 PM
For the US, it is important to note that elections are almost fairly close, because 80% of the population (call it a 40%/40% split) are basically immovable, meaning that nothing will change their opinion. Chanos Said it probably best - if Dems or Republicans were to nominate a “potted plant” as a candidate, it still would likely get 40% of the votes.
Now take into consideration the electoral system and consider that a candidate theoretically could win with 40% of the popular votes and you can see that elections will always look fairly close. 
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 02, 2020, 01:10:06 PM
If your choices for lunch are a ham sandwich or a Boca burger, but your preference is for fish, you still have to eat. US politics is so fucked structurally. Lets be real. You think you have two choices. At best, you have 2. But even further, the only people who "really" have choices, reside in like 5-6 states.

There's a certain danger to judging people(let alone, and especially, politicians) on what they say(especially clever people). But then even with actions, I cant think of one president who was a true Lone Ranger or cowboy. The system only allows those that adhere to their "masters"(IE campaign donors, lobbyist, etc) to advance. Trump was a great break from this. The catch being that his "master" is his own ego. The accounts from nearly everyone who has worked for him are indeed startling.

Its just tough as a citizen because at the end of the day, especially living in a blue state, where is the middle ground of "I just want to live my life and be left alone. Dont force your ideologies on me and stop picking my pocket"...Is that so much to ask for? If that is my objective, who increases those odds for me? Trump, or Biden?

I'm pretty much OK with Biden as long as he doesnt pick some wackadoo like Warren or Harris. He's clearly slowing down and like Trump, probably a one term president. So much can and has been changing over the past couple slews of 4 year Presidential terms. Unfortunately, it doesnt seem it is for the better.

The biggest concern, one that doesnt get brought up much outside of the Trump is a dictator hyperbole, is the incredible abuse of executive orders that started under Obama and now seems to be rising significantly under Trump. All this does is give the next guy a chance to take it further, and with the candidates becoming more extremist, this is very scary.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 02, 2020, 01:13:58 PM
Trump was compared to Hitler and now Bundy and Manson? Well, I suppose his image is improving then. :P
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Jurgis on August 02, 2020, 01:24:19 PM
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.
Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.[/b]

Or, as it's been explained to you probably dozens of times....some people just realize voting for the Republican candidate will increase the likelihood of policies they favor being implemented, moreso than the Democrat. And vice versa. Its strange people go to such lengths to bridge this into the above. As stupid as claiming anyone who voted for Obama supports smoking. So these people may "think" such and such are "stupid" or whatever. But the joke is on them. They've totally lost their minds the past 3 years and been trolled endlessly by a buffoon like Trump.

So if Charles Manson or Ted Bundy were on the Republican ticket today large number of people would vote for them?

Trump is not a ‘buffoon’; through his words and actions he has demonstrated he is much worse than that (and that is where the examples above are instructive).

If you kill 8 or 30 people, you are serial killer.

If you kill 156000 people and counting, you are great president.

Go Trumpf!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 02, 2020, 01:26:35 PM
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.
Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.[/b]

Or, as it's been explained to you probably dozens of times....some people just realize voting for the Republican candidate will increase the likelihood of policies they favor being implemented, moreso than the Democrat. And vice versa. Its strange people go to such lengths to bridge this into the above. As stupid as claiming anyone who voted for Obama supports smoking. So these people may "think" such and such are "stupid" or whatever. But the joke is on them. They've totally lost their minds the past 3 years and been trolled endlessly by a buffoon like Trump.

So if Charles Manson or Ted Bundy were on the Republican ticket today large number of people would vote for them?

Trump is not a ‘buffoon’; through his words and actions he has demonstrated he is much worse than that (and that is where the examples above are instructive).

If you kill 8 or 30 people, you are serial killer.

If you kill 156000 people and counting, you are great president.

Go Trumpf!

Pretty sure Trump didn't kill anyone. If so, we should press charges for murder...why aren't the police arresting him?!?!? Oh wait, liberals defunded them. :(
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 02, 2020, 05:07:19 PM
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.
Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.[/b]

Or, as it's been explained to you probably dozens of times....some people just realize voting for the Republican candidate will increase the likelihood of policies they favor being implemented, moreso than the Democrat. And vice versa. Its strange people go to such lengths to bridge this into the above. As stupid as claiming anyone who voted for Obama supports smoking. So these people may "think" such and such are "stupid" or whatever. But the joke is on them. They've totally lost their minds the past 3 years and been trolled endlessly by a buffoon like Trump.

So if Charles Manson or Ted Bundy were on the Republican ticket today large number of people would vote for them?

Trump is not a ‘buffoon’; through his words and actions he has demonstrated he is much worse than that (and that is where the examples above are instructive).

This is an invalid way to respond. I'd imagine its largely emotionally driven. Ted Bundy or Charles Manson would be be ineligible to run. If they were able to run, it would be due to the fact that they met certain criteria; in other words, if they weren't known for the things that you associate with them, then yes, they'd be eligible and if they got through all the preliminaries, people would probably vote for them. Donald Trump, despite all the hooting and hollering and ranting and raving, has never been convicted of a crime and was just as eligible to run as any other candidate.

Further, almost every provable liberal talking point about Trump, has thus far been debunked, with the granddaddy of them all, being the "Russia Collusion" hoax. As long as people can say racist, sexist, homophobic, bigot, etc, without any consequence, and without any way to prove/disprove it, it will continue. Just remember though, the same folks that screamed "Racism" when Trump banned certain flights back in January/February are also largely the same folks who continue to cry about how Trump "didnt do enough" to fight COVID. The same ones yelling "racist" are also the same ones also claiming Trudeau isn't actually racist, despite there being more concrete(non opinion based) evidence of the later guy(Trudeau) than the former(Trump).
My man Greg here is right. If Ted Bundy or Charles Manson would have run and promised conservative judges, people would vote for them. These would be the "values voters". The ones that identify as Christians. If you remember, these would be the ones that though that Obama was a secret Muslim that wanted to impose sharia law in America. Of course that was nonsense. But they would really, really like to implement their sharia law if they could.

Projection. It's always projection.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 02, 2020, 05:21:05 PM
Yea, totally rb. Way to again take the topic, misrepresent it, and turn it into liberal mush you hear from your boy Anderson Cooper. But in the spirit of your games, I'd point out, that at the rate you people are going, felons like Bundy and Manson would soon be eligible to run for President. After all, we defund the police, eliminate bail, let them out early cuz of a tummy ache, let them vote, then let them run!...the future is bright. How long til #murdererslivesmatter?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 02, 2020, 05:29:50 PM
Yes, it's hate speech. You guys hate him and you make fun of him. Therefore it's hate speech.

Isn't that what the left does? If they don't like something, label whatever is said as hate speech and call them a somethingophobe?
Oh , if you didn't like the Reagan rap rhymes, you're really not gonna like this one:

https://twitter.com/thejuicemedia/status/1288989754210557960

My favourite bit:

Quote
Unfortunately for you, the amount of responsibility we take in doing our job comes to approximately...

Fuck All!

Which is why we got more of you killed than 50 9/11s.

Trump 2020
With a president like this who needs terrorists?
YMMV
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 02, 2020, 05:42:17 PM
Yea, totally rb. Way to again take the topic, misrepresent it, and turn it into liberal mush you hear from your boy Anderson Cooper. But in the spirit of your games, I'd point out, that at the rate you people are going, felons like Bundy and Manson would soon be eligible to run for President. After all, we defund the police, eliminate bail, let them out early cuz of a tummy ache, let them vote, then let them run!...the future is bright. How long til #murdererslivesmatter?
Yeah.... I din't really misrepresent you post. But here's more liberal mush to enjoy:

I totally believe that felons should be able to be able to run for office and vote. After all, they are still citizens of the republic, are they not? A civic responsibility also falls on the rest of the citizens of the republic not to vote these people into office.

If we say that we must bar Ted Bundy (or some other murderer) from running for office because he might win because tens of millions of Americans will vote for him or her. Well then I think that America has waaaay bigger problems than whether felons are allowed to run or vote. Don't you think?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 02, 2020, 06:06:28 PM
Yea, totally rb. Way to again take the topic, misrepresent it, and turn it into liberal mush you hear from your boy Anderson Cooper. But in the spirit of your games, I'd point out, that at the rate you people are going, felons like Bundy and Manson would soon be eligible to run for President. After all, we defund the police, eliminate bail, let them out early cuz of a tummy ache, let them vote, then let them run!...the future is bright. How long til #murdererslivesmatter?
Yeah.... I din't really misrepresent you post. But here's more liberal mush to enjoy:

I totally believe that felons should be able to be able to run for office and vote. After all, they are still citizens of the republic, are they not? A civic responsibility also falls on the rest of the citizens of the republic not to vote these people into office.

If we say that we must bar Ted Bundy (or some other murderer) from running for office because he might win because tens of millions of Americans will vote for him or her. Well then I think that America has waaaay bigger problems than whether felons are allowed to run or vote. Don't you think?

I'm not really sure of anyone who is saying that....

But the logic for not allowing these people to vote, let alone hold office is simple. If you cant follow the law, you shouldn't really be able to take part in making it(through the democratic process whether directly; on ballot, or indirectly; IE electing an official who will). Further, this power is explicitly delegated to the states, who have pretty wide discretion with the major no-nos being discrimination. But there are definitely states and movement for such things as allowing felons to vote. All of this is completely irrelevant to the simple fact that Bundy or Manson as a serial killer/murderer would never be allowed to run. Has nothing to do with whether people would vote for them or not. Had they been allowed to run, assuming the same laws we have today, then by default they would not have been the heinous, sociopathic murderers we know them to be today; in which case they'd have the same constitutional rights as every one person, and in which case there'd be nothing wrong with people voting for them, if indeed they followed the process and made it through all the primaries....unless of course, you want to make the claim that they were still murderers, but got away with it and we didnt know...but thats a stupid argument, especially since politicians are the ultimate slime ball snakes and god knows who and what most of these losers have done and simply gotten away with....but that takes us to subjective territory, and full circle back to the stupidly pointless game you guys play with respect to Trump..."oh he s a criminal"...despite the fact that the laws of the land and 70+ year track record, IE indisputable facts, state otherwise.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 02, 2020, 06:09:18 PM

The biggest concern, one that doesnt get brought up much outside of the Trump is a dictator hyperbole, is the incredible abuse of executive orders that started under Obama and now seems to be rising significantly under Trump. All this does is give the next guy a chance to take it further, and with the candidates becoming more extremist, this is very scary.

The point about executive orders is a good one. Besides ObamaCare, Obama couldn't do anything without executive orders - and since Hillary
was going to be a given as President - it was easy to see Obama orders standing another 8 years. Now there will be nothing left.

So for Trump to have a major impact, he does need to get re-elected and hopefully have a shot at a House majority.

Unlike Obama though - his REAL impact that will be felt with be in the Courts. Trump/McConnell have appointed almost 200 Federal Judges
during his tenure. That will have a lasting impact on the Judicial Branch - and something that can't be undone by an election.

I think that will be one of Trump's major legacies that won't change for years and years: Conservative and Constitional driven courts.
And unless Democrats can get control of the Senate - they won't be able to stop the appointment of conservative judges - and perhaps
the Supreme Court as well.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 02, 2020, 06:21:18 PM

The biggest concern, one that doesnt get brought up much outside of the Trump is a dictator hyperbole, is the incredible abuse of executive orders that started under Obama and now seems to be rising significantly under Trump. All this does is give the next guy a chance to take it further, and with the candidates becoming more extremist, this is very scary.

The point about executive orders is a good one. Besides ObamaCare, Obama couldn't do anything without executive orders - and since Hillary
was going to be a given as President - it was easy to see Obama orders standing another 8 years. Now there will be nothing left.

So for Trump to have a major impact, he does need to get re-elected and hopefully have a shot at a House majority.

Unlike Obama though - his REAL impact that will be felt with be in the Courts. Trump/McConnell have appointed almost 200 Federal Judges
during his tenure. That will have a lasting impact on the Judicial Branch - and something that can't be undone by an election.

I think that will be one of Trump's major legacies that won't change for years and years: Conservative and Constitional driven courts.
And unless Democrats can get control of the Senate - they won't be able to stop the appointment of conservative judges - and perhaps
the Supreme Court as well.

These fools have been talking about expanding the Supreme Court. Adding new states. Impeaching judges. There's no end to where they will go.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 03, 2020, 07:50:38 AM
Yes, it's hate speech. You guys hate him and you make fun of him. Therefore it's hate speech.

Isn't that what the left does? If they don't like something, label whatever is said as hate speech and call them a somethingophobe?
Oh , if you didn't like the Reagan rap rhymes, you're really not gonna like this one:

https://twitter.com/thejuicemedia/status/1288989754210557960

My favourite bit:

Quote
Unfortunately for you, the amount of responsibility we take in doing our job comes to approximately...

Fuck All!

Which is why we got more of you killed than 50 9/11s.

Trump 2020
With a president like this who needs terrorists?
YMMV

Wow. Such a Trumpophobe. Should I call the Southern Poverty Law Center and tell them of your intolerance and hate? Perhaps they can label you and your ilk as a hate group?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 09:11:32 AM
Haha. You're funny.  Want to know who is promoting hate speech? Here is just a hint.

                                                        The Effect of President Trump's Election on Hate Crimes
We find compelling evidence to support the Trump Effect hypothesis. Using time series analysis, we show that Donald Trump’s election in November of 2016 was associated with a statistically significant surge in reported hate crimes across the United States, even when controlling for alternative explanations. Further, by using panel regression techniques, we show that counties that voted for President Trump by the widest margins in the presidential election also experienced the largest increases in reported hate crimes. 


https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3102652

Remember the Central Park Five? The Obama birtherism bs? How about his pronouncement “...some of them were good people”?

You publicly support this man's spreading of hate throughout the country and yet you accuse others of hate speech. Some nerve.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 03, 2020, 09:53:42 AM
Haha. You're funny.  Want to know who is promoting hate speech? Here is just a hint.

                                                        The Effect of President Trump's Election on Hate Crimes
We find compelling evidence to support the Trump Effect hypothesis. Using time series analysis, we show that Donald Trump’s election in November of 2016 was associated with a statistically significant surge in reported hate crimes across the United States, even when controlling for alternative explanations. Further, by using panel regression techniques, we show that counties that voted for President Trump by the widest margins in the presidential election also experienced the largest increases in reported hate crimes. 


https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3102652

Remember the Central Park Five? The Obama birtherism bs? How about his pronouncement “...some of them were good people”?

You publicly support this man's spreading of hate throughout the country and yet you accuse others of hate speech. Some nerve.

Which group is doing the following?

- Saying death to Israel
- Saying kill all cops
- Saying kill all white people
- F all men
- Burning the flag
- Burning the Bible
- Destroying businesses
- Destroying cities
- Influential leaders talking about enhanced genetics of being black and how being black is genetically superior

BLM has killed more people in the few months of riots than unarmed individuals killed by police in the entire previous year.

The democrats are the only party actively trying to destroy this country at a systemic, fundamental, and ideological level. The vast majority of individuals who will vote for Trump simply want tough on China policies and law and order. They don't all vote for him because they like/agree with his antics and personality. How many blatantly racists and simply sick (pedo) things has Joe Biden been apart of and said both in the past and present? Yet you guys continue to look past it and brush it off...

Maybe all these thugs should take their next stimulus check and buy a one way ticket to Venezuela, Pakistan, or some sub Saharan nation where modern day slavery is still rampant. They can get a taste of what policies they embrace bring about.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 03, 2020, 11:05:53 AM
Haha. You're funny.  Want to know who is promoting hate speech? Here is just a hint.

                                                        The Effect of President Trump's Election on Hate Crimes
We find compelling evidence to support the Trump Effect hypothesis. Using time series analysis, we show that Donald Trump’s election in November of 2016 was associated with a statistically significant surge in reported hate crimes across the United States, even when controlling for alternative explanations. Further, by using panel regression techniques, we show that counties that voted for President Trump by the widest margins in the presidential election also experienced the largest increases in reported hate crimes. 


https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3102652

Remember the Central Park Five? The Obama birtherism bs? How about his pronouncement “...some of them were good people”?

You publicly support this man's spreading of hate throughout the country and yet you accuse others of hate speech. Some nerve.

Which group is doing the following?

- Saying death to Israel
- Saying kill all cops
- Saying kill all white people
- F all men
- Burning the flag
- Burning the Bible
- Destroying businesses
- Destroying cities
- Influential leaders talking about enhanced genetics of being black and how being black is genetically superior

BLM has killed more people in the few months of riots than unarmed individuals killed by police in the entire previous year.

The democrats are the only party actively trying to destroy this country at a systemic, fundamental, and ideological level. The vast majority of individuals who will vote for Trump simply want tough on China policies and law and order. They don't all vote for him because they like/agree with his antics and personality. How many blatantly racists and simply sick (pedo) things has Joe Biden been apart of and said both in the past and present? Yet you guys continue to look past it and brush it off...

Maybe all these thugs should take their next stimulus check and buy a one way ticket to Venezuela, Pakistan, or some sub Saharan nation where modern day slavery is still rampant. They can get a taste of what policies they embrace bring about.

+5, but dont expect to get a worthy or detailed rebuttal from these guys. Its pure media fed narratives and hashtag worthy snippets from them. That is all.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: gfp on August 03, 2020, 11:11:09 AM
How many people has "BLM" killed?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 03, 2020, 11:27:38 AM
Look at the number of murders in Portland in July. How about shootings and violence in cities like NY. Theres a cute narrative going, where we try to heap "good" things on the protesters... but then separate the "bad" as the result of something different. But there's a common catalyst. Anyone trying to be objective can see it.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: gfp on August 03, 2020, 12:29:22 PM
Look at the number of murders in Portland in July. How about shootings and violence in cities like NY. Theres a cute narrative going, where we try to heap "good" things on the protesters... but then separate the "bad" as the result of something different. But there's a common catalyst. Anyone trying to be objective can see it.

I looked into it and found this analysis
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/upshot/murders-rising-crime-coronavirus.html

Is there a good reason to assign causation to Black Lives Matter protests? 

As an aside, Portland had 15 murders in July according to a NY Post article.  Living in New Orleans, where we have something like 60% of Portland's population, that sounded pretty good!  New Orleans had something like double that in July and the statistics for shootings that don't actually kill the person are even worse compared to Portland.  I do know that in New Orleans, our shootings and homicides are unrelated to Black Lives Matter protests and we have had no major confrontations between protesters and Police (one tear gas / rubber bullet moment on a bridge one night) and exactly zero looting.  There was a statue/bust thrown in the river but some MAGA fellas fished it out.

*edit - I will say that in New Orleans, our violent crime is very consistently caused by and perpetrated on the same groups of drug dealing gangs who are jockeying for control of various neighborhood areas and then retaliating for previous violent crime perpetrated on their group by another.  Generations of poverty, lack of education, extremely young and uneducated parents, and lack of economic opportunity outside of the drug trade are the primary causes and it's nothing new.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 03, 2020, 12:40:46 PM
I think there are a number of causes. Many similar to what you mentioned. But as you alluded to, those areas haven't seen much change in behavior. You may have company A who's earnings are up 5% y/y, and then company B, who's earnings go up 65% y/y. Clearly theres something causing that. Is it corona? Possible. But I doubt its a coincidence that you have active instigators and people promoting anti police actions, that you see this aggressiveness. Look no further than CHAZ. Remove police, and you get violence and a "thought of" safe haven for hooligans. If fact, one black kid murdered at CHAZ, was simply running there for shelter in hopes of meeting up with his gang buddies, recklessly driving towards their armed "guards", in a Jeep he had just stolen from a random citizen, at knife point.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 01:40:45 PM
Interesting how the people on the Far Right here will ignore any facts that don’t support the idea that Trump is America’s saviour. Of course, as Kellyanne said, “We have alternate facts.”

Admittedly, that is one thing Trump is good at is creating his own ‘facts’.

You guys just cannot seem to grasp the fact that your leader does everything in his power to provoke disunity within the country and confrontations wherever he can in an effort to make himself look good.

Seems today’s target is Dr Brix, ‘cause he knows that this virus thing is really no big deal and it has been blown out of all proportion in a leftist plot to get him out of the Whitehouse. It is “so unfair, just so unfair”. It’s just like all the other countries around the world are all so unfair because they all take advantage of the U.S.

And of course he does know more than all the generals and doctors.

And people believe and support this guy?

Of course they do, because we know the President would never lie.

 
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 03, 2020, 01:43:54 PM
Awfully funny.

Pelosi criticizes Brix, not a word. Trump does it.... well, here we go.


Fauci criticizes a Trump policy, he s applauded by there left. Fauci praises Trump...crickets.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 01:49:10 PM
Perhaps you missed the fact that they are (supposedly) Trump advisors?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 03, 2020, 02:11:37 PM
How many people has "BLM" killed?

Shit, they killed 2 teenage blacks in the CHAZ zone alone.

In St. Louis, they shot and killed David Dorn a black man, that was guarding his friends store.

Since the Floyd murder there have been 22 deaths in these "peaceful protests"

Just 1 hour from where I live they shot and killed a lovely 21 year old girl protester and wounded her sister in Davenport IA.

But I don't blame your omission GFP - these stories were not be covered by the Fake News anyway!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: gfp on August 03, 2020, 02:21:52 PM
It wasn't an omission - it was a question.  Apparently the answer is 22.  I'll check them out as there is a lot of "they killed" here and I'm not sure who "they" are.  But yes, certainly many times more black people are killed by other black people than by just about anything else I can think of.  Except poor diet I suppose.

How many people has "BLM" killed?

Shit, they killed 2 teenage blacks in the CHAZ zone alone.

In St. Louis, they shot and killed David Dorn a black man, that was guarding his friends store.

Since the Floyd murder there have been 22 deaths in these "peaceful protests"

Just 1 hour from where I live they shot and killed a lovely 21 year old girl protester and wounded her sister in Davenport IA.

But I don't blame your omission GFP - these stories were not be covered by the Fake News anyway!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Jurgis on August 03, 2020, 02:23:08 PM
Perhaps you missed the fact that they are (supposedly) Trump advisors?

How could anyone aspire to advise OUR ONLY AND TRUE LEADER, EL PRESIDENTE, THE STABLE GENIUS WHO COMPLETED THE TEST AND RECEIVED 30 POINTS?

They are all beneath the dust under the slippery shoes on the ramp. Not even worth mentioning.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 03, 2020, 02:31:46 PM
Haha. You're funny.  Want to know who is promoting hate speech? Here is just a hint.

                                                        The Effect of President Trump's Election on Hate Crimes
We find compelling evidence to support the Trump Effect hypothesis. Using time series analysis, we show that Donald Trump’s election in November of 2016 was associated with a statistically significant surge in reported hate crimes across the United States, even when controlling for alternative explanations. Further, by using panel regression techniques, we show that counties that voted for President Trump by the widest margins in the presidential election also experienced the largest increases in reported hate crimes. 


https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3102652

Remember the Central Park Five? The Obama birtherism bs? How about his pronouncement “...some of them were good people”?

You publicly support this man's spreading of hate throughout the country and yet you accuse others of hate speech. Some nerve.

Look, it's another Trumpophobe!

Do you have evidence that the Central Park Five thing was due to race and not as a crime deterent?
Do you have evidence that Obama's birth certificate is due to race and not Obama's issues on getting it out quickly?

I personally agree with him that there were good people on both sides. How could there be 1,000s of people and not think that some of them are good?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 02:50:41 PM
"I personally agree with him that there were good people on both sides."

Well you obviously have low standards
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 03, 2020, 03:07:54 PM
"I personally agree with him that there were good people on both sides."

Well you obviously have low standards

Well, to make his comment accurate, just add the word "probably". There were "probably" good people on both sides. Unless you have some sort of person or statistical evidence to conclude otherwise? Or should we just believe your Don Lemon take that "everyone on my side is good and every on the other side is bad" narrative? After all, they're all racist white supremists, while your people are just oh so benevolent and tolerant of everyone*....

*everyone who happens to be on their side and agree 100% with their ideologies.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 03, 2020, 03:10:07 PM
Perhaps you missed the fact that they are (supposedly) Trump advisors?

LOL so whats your point? He can't criticize people he appoints? Or that your side is just exercising their divine right to incessantly criticize for no reason other than the fact that its not "their" people? So much tolerance from you today!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 03:13:49 PM
“Do you have evidence that the Central Park Five thing was due to race and not as a crime deterent?”

His past and present history makes it obvious to anyone with even an inkling. Read Mary Trump’s book or Omarosa Manigault’s.  And by the way, those five black kids that he wanted executed were innocent.

“Do you have evidence that Obama's birth certificate is due to race and not Obama's issues on getting it out quickly?”

Oh, because he tried to ignore Trump’s insulting insinuations it is now Obama’s fault?
Long after Obama produced it, Trump still wouldn't recognize it. He only capitulated when it became a stumbling block in getting the GOP nomination. Only then did he admit it
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 03, 2020, 03:20:21 PM
“Do you have evidence that the Central Park Five thing was due to race and not as a crime deterent?”

His past and present history makes it obvious to anyone with even an inkling. Read Mary Trump’s book or Omarosa Manigault’s.  And by the way, those five black kids that he wanted executed were innocent.

Curious about your take on Kamala Harris' history then? Or is that getting too in depth? Or simply boxing you in given she may be a VP and eventual president you'd have to defend?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 03, 2020, 03:21:48 PM
Oh yeah!! 

Mary Trump and Omarosa are such great sources of the truth!

What a frickin laugh.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 03:23:00 PM
“Do you have evidence that the Central Park Five thing was due to race and not as a crime deterent?”

His past and present history makes it obvious to anyone with even an inkling. Read Mary Trump’s book or Omarosa Manigault’s.  And by the way, those five black kids that he wanted executed were innocent.

“Do you have evidence that Obama's birth certificate is due to race and not Obama's issues on getting it out quickly?”

Oh, because he tried to ignore Trump’s insulting insinuations it is now Obama’s fault?
Long after Obama produced it, Trump still wouldn't recognize it. He only capitulated when it became a stumbling block in getting the GOP nomination. Only then did he admit it

O gimme a break!

Birx said that the virus was widespread. Trump took exception to that because it goes against his bull shit that “we are doing very well” in the fight against Covid.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 03:25:17 PM
"Mary Trump and Omarosa are such great sources of the truth!"

Pillars of the truth in comparison to DJT - and I know you don't believe half of what he says.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 03, 2020, 04:26:17 PM
So the bottom line today is that saying anything bad about Trump is a hate crime and that statistically speaking there must are some good people among neonazies just trough randomness.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 04:30:57 PM
Is it just me or have others noticed that it often takes a period of time after clicking 'post' before the post completes? It seems that it used to be more immediate.
I picture Sanjeev sitting on a stool in this little room reading each and every post before allowing it to be posted.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 03, 2020, 04:32:51 PM
Republican Neel Kashkari very tactfully and articulately damns the Trump administration's response to the domestic Coronavirus epidemic and artfully charatcterizes the relationship to the economic fallout of Trump's failures. Though he's very tactful, this might as well be an official "Republicans Voters Against Trump" video rather than an appearance on "Face the Nation."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHQgABT4XzA
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 03, 2020, 04:35:24 PM
Is it just me or have others noticed that it often takes a period of time after clicking 'post' before the post completes? It seems that it used to be more immediate.
I picture Sanjeev sitting on a stool in this little room reading each and every post before allowing it to be posted.
You're just being paranoid. I've noticed the same thing. But it's the site just being slow. the posts get posted right away but some reason the refresh/reload take longer. No clue why that is.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 04:36:19 PM
“Do you have evidence that the Central Park Five thing was due to race and not as a crime deterent?”

His past and present history makes it obvious to anyone with even an inkling. Read Mary Trump’s book or Omarosa Manigault’s.  And by the way, those five black kids that he wanted executed were innocent.

Curious about your take on Kamala Harris' history then? Or is that getting too in depth? Or simply boxing you in given she may be a VP and eventual president you'd have to defend?

I don't have to defend anyone. But I can't understand how you can keep defending Trump time after time when you know what a nut job he is.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 04:38:03 PM
Is it just me or have others noticed that it often takes a period of time after clicking 'post' before the post completes? It seems that it used to be more immediate.
I picture Sanjeev sitting on a stool in this little room reading each and every post before allowing it to be posted.
You're just being paranoid. I've noticed the same thing. But it's the site just being slow. the posts get posted right away but some reason the refresh/reload take longer. No clue why that is.

Thanks. I have noticed this over the past week or so.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 03, 2020, 04:39:24 PM
This is not associated with the organization Republicans Voters Against Trump to the best of my knowledge, but it is a Republican voter who now appears to be against Trump. He also has written op-eds in the past defending Trump. Not so much this time.

Quote
Trump Might Try to Postpone the Election. That’s Unconstitutional.
He should be removed unless he relents.

By Steven G. Calabresi

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/opinion/trump-delay-election-coronavirus.html

Quote
I have voted Republican in every presidential election since 1980, including voting for Donald Trump in 2016. I wrote op-eds and a law review article protesting what I believe was an unconstitutional investigation by Robert Mueller. I also wrote an op-ed opposing President Trump’s impeachment.

But I am frankly appalled by the president’s recent tweet seeking to postpone the November election. Until recently, I had taken as political hyperbole the Democrats’ assertion that President Trump is a fascist. But this latest tweet is fascistic and is itself grounds for the president’s immediate impeachment again by the House of Representatives and his removal from office by the Senate.

...

President Trump needs to be told by every Republican in Congress that he cannot postpone the federal election. Doing so would be illegal, unconstitutional and without precedent in American history. Anyone who says otherwise should never be elected to Congress again.

Steven G. Calabresi is a co-founder of the Federalist Society and a professor at Northwestern University’s Pritzker School of Law.

If you're not well aware of what the Federalist Society is and it's role in electing Trump and it's influence on the Trump administration, I would recommend you check them out. Here's a start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Society

For those of you who don't follow links, the Federalist Society handpicked Gorsuch for a Supreme Court nominee. There have definitely been some Trump supporters who basically said, "yeah I don't like Trump, but as long as he let's the Federalist Society pick the judges, I'm willing to put up with him." Also five conservative Supreme Court judges are or were members of the society. A co-founder of the Federalist Society switching sides, calling Trump a fascist, and suggesting he should be impeached over his recent behavior is at a bare minimum an interesting development.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 03, 2020, 04:39:45 PM
“Do you have evidence that the Central Park Five thing was due to race and not as a crime deterent?”

His past and present history makes it obvious to anyone with even an inkling. Read Mary Trump’s book or Omarosa Manigault’s.  And by the way, those five black kids that he wanted executed were innocent.

Curious about your take on Kamala Harris' history then? Or is that getting too in depth? Or simply boxing you in given she may be a VP and eventual president you'd have to defend?

I don't have to defend anyone. But I can't understand how you can keep defending Trump time after time when you know what a nut job he is.

It's very easy to defend Trump when your alternative is Joe Biden or one of his wacko VP candidates!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 03, 2020, 04:44:13 PM
“Do you have evidence that the Central Park Five thing was due to race and not as a crime deterent?”

His past and present history makes it obvious to anyone with even an inkling. Read Mary Trump’s book or Omarosa Manigault’s.  And by the way, those five black kids that he wanted executed were innocent.

Curious about your take on Kamala Harris' history then? Or is that getting too in depth? Or simply boxing you in given she may be a VP and eventual president you'd have to defend?

I don't have to defend anyone. But I can't understand how you can keep defending Trump time after time when you know what a nut job he is.

Interesting. You won't take a stand on similar people running for similar/same office, but you're oh so vocal continuously about "the other team".... I've defending Trump where its warranted, like when whats spewed is easily verifiable as false, headline bs from partisan figureheads, and I've criticized him where warranted. Nevertheless, everything goes over your head. One can have a conversation where its clearly communicated "Trump did this wrong" and three hours later you and the crew are back at it with the "you always defends/never criticize Trump" rhetoric. Carry one now. Hypocritical, logically conflicted, and in denial of the reality...and all.

Oh yea, and your "proof" Trump is racist is "anyone can see it", and "read Omarosa's book"...but then defend Trudeau wearing blackface and claim he not "racist". This is truly incredible partisanship here!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 03, 2020, 04:45:10 PM
Lol yea, Joe Biden is really awful. Really, really scary character. LOL!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 03, 2020, 04:50:14 PM
Lol yea, Joe Biden is really awful. Really, really scary character. LOL!

On the contrary - Joe is a great guy, everyone loves him , life of the party - seriously, it's really tough NOT to like Joe Biden - I mean that.
He'd make a great neighbor or drinking buddy.

But as the President of the United States - he's an empty suit with no leadership skills, and unfortunately for him - declining mental skills.

Too bad - first Hillary, now this guy - man the Democrats are a frickin' mess of a party!

And, heck, I even gave him a pass on his corruption!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 05:11:38 PM
“Curious about your take on Kamala Harris' history then? “
“You won't take a stand on similar people running for similar/same office...”

I must have missed it, but what office is Harris running for?

“...then defend Trudeau wearing blackface and claim he not "racist”“

Are you seriously trying to compare Trump’s racism (and if you don’t see that you have a problem) to a guy who put shoe polish on his face 20 years ago? And believe me I am the first one to criticize Trudeau because I think he is a useless twit - but he is not a racist. I have followed him since he was a kid, how much do you actually know about him? Obviously very little.

I don’t know how old you are but it irritates the hell out of me when people try to hold up things that happened a generation or more ago to the standards of today. Twenty years ago dressing up for a Halloween party was no big deal. Dressed up as a pirate once, are they offended now? Will the Pirate’s union come after me? We all used to play cowboys and Indians as kids, so now does that make us raciest? It didn’t then.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 03, 2020, 05:16:27 PM
Why don't you go ahead and tell us all about Trump's racism???

(if we can't see it we have a problem) you say.  Tell us all about it, give us specific instances, you're so sure about this.
Tell us all the racist things he's done and said, since the list is so long.

Take your time - and make it good so you can stand behind your blanket condemnation.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 05:23:03 PM
Do your own research. I have already given examples. How about them damn Mexicans. If Trump put a bounty on people of color you guys would try to justify it somehow so it would simply be a waste of time, because we all know that he is absolutely the greatest president ever.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 03, 2020, 05:27:25 PM
"I personally agree with him that there were good people on both sides."

Well you obviously have low standards

Perhaps. Or perhaps I don't judge people on whether or not they attended one event? How am I suppose to know what they are thinking?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 03, 2020, 05:28:15 PM
Oh just wait. I almost think part of Sanjeevs early move to the new "no politics" forum is to save some of these guys from confirming their status as total hypocrites and frauds. After all, once Joe becomes president, which one of these fellas is going to be sleuthing away at how a career politician amassed a $20M+ net worth?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 03, 2020, 05:29:52 PM
"I personally agree with him that there were good people on both sides."

Well you obviously have low standards

Perhaps. Or perhaps I don't judge people on whether or not they attended one event? How am I suppose to know what they are thinking?

LOL or the simple little bit that just because CNN labelled them all racists and white supremists, that in fact, everyone there was one. This is the same CNN that regular touts BLM as "peaceful" protesters. These people cant possibly be this stupid and gullible. Can they?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 03, 2020, 05:31:23 PM
Trudeau is the good guy. He does things like this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53494560

Such a scam artist.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 03, 2020, 05:42:56 PM
To all of you's that are trying to rationalize the there were fine people on both side. I would refer you to that old saying of your grandma: show me who your friends you are are and I will tell you who you are. And it sure looks like nazis and other of their despicable ilk are really good friends of Trump.

I will tell you this. If I ever showed up at a nazi march I would have gotten the nazi slapped out of me. Oh and the "there were good people among the nazis" argument wouldn't have gotten me very far.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 03, 2020, 05:48:35 PM
Do your own research. I have already given examples. How about them damn Mexicans. If Trump put a bounty on people of color you guys would try to justify it somehow so it would simply be a waste of time, because we all know that he is absolutely the greatest president ever.


All I am saying is that you are brainwashed by Rachel Madow and clowns like Brian Stelter.

If you look real hard, you are not going to find that it is "obvious that Trump is a racist" at all.
It's the liberal label used over and over and over: Got no comeback or policy alternative: Well he's a racist!! so there!!

Impeachment didn't work? - Well he's a racist!

Phony Russian Hoax? - Well he's a racist!

You're falling into that tired old Democratic trap that has worked so well for years and years.
It worked wonders against Romney and McCain.

It just doesn't work against Trump.





Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 03, 2020, 05:53:01 PM
To all of you's that are trying to rationalize the there were fine people on both side. I would refer you to that old saying of your grandma: show me who your friends you are are and I will tell you who you are. And it sure looks like nazis and other of their despicable ilk are really good friends of Trump.

I will tell you this. If I ever showed up at a nazi march I would have gotten the nazi slapped out of me. Oh and the "there were good people among the nazis" argument wouldn't have gotten me very far.

Tell us how many Nazi's are in America?

You have pictures of thousands of Nazi's protesting in cities all over America?

Show me the American Nazi Party and their brethren Trump supporters burning and looting American cities.

Please show us.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 06:06:52 PM

Trudeau is the good guy. He does things like this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53494560

Such a scam artist.

Now see, did you even read my reply to you - today or on previous posts? I agree with you so what is your point? I think he is essentially an entitled brat but that doesn't make him a raciest.
As far as corruption is concerned it would be pocket change to Trump, who would of course, never appoint family members to any official position - would he?. And just FYI, his wife was a TV personality prior to his taking office and his mother is the former wife of Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, so they had at least some legitimacy to speakers. And the amounts involved - pocket change to Trump.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 03, 2020, 06:11:53 PM

Trudeau is the good guy. He does things like this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53494560

Such a scam artist.

Now see, did you even read my reply to you - today or on previous posts? I agree with you so what is your point? I think he is essentially an entitled brat but that doesn't make him a raciest.
As far as corruption is concerned it would be pocket change to Trump, who would of course, never appoint family members to any official position - would he?. And just FYI, his wife was a TV personality prior to his taking office and his mother is the former wife of Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, so they had at least some legitimacy to speakers. And the amounts involved - pocket change to Trump.
Lol this reminds me of some hard core Canadian conservatives who were expressing revulsion at the fiscal profligacy of the Trudeau government that was running a deficit of 1.5% while praising the great fiscal management of the Trump government that was running a deficit of 4%. God knows how they were managing the blue screens.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 06:23:33 PM
"All I am saying is that you are brainwashed by Rachel Madow and clowns like Brian Stelter."

Well I kind of doubt that.

Especially as the only time I have ever heard of that Rachael person is when you or Greg have mentioned her once before. And Stetler I think I have seen ads for him on CNN?

By the way, if they are some sort of news people I happen to get most of my news these days from outside the USA. I do listen to CNN at times and listened to FOX for 2 hours a day last year during commuting to and from work.

But of course Trump people believe all the world wide media is ‘fake news’ except for FOX. For some reason the whole world media is against Trump. Now why would that be? Ever wonder about that?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 03, 2020, 06:33:30 PM
To all of you's that are trying to rationalize the there were fine people on both side. I would refer you to that old saying of your grandma: show me who your friends you are are and I will tell you who you are. And it sure looks like nazis and other of their despicable ilk are really good friends of Trump.

I will tell you this. If I ever showed up at a nazi march I would have gotten the nazi slapped out of me. Oh and the "there were good people among the nazis" argument wouldn't have gotten me very far.

It wasn't "Nazis." There were militias there too.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 03, 2020, 06:36:45 PM
To all of you's that are trying to rationalize the there were fine people on both side. I would refer you to that old saying of your grandma: show me who your friends you are are and I will tell you who you are. And it sure looks like nazis and other of their despicable ilk are really good friends of Trump.

I will tell you this. If I ever showed up at a nazi march I would have gotten the nazi slapped out of me. Oh and the "there were good people among the nazis" argument wouldn't have gotten me very far.

It wasn't "Nazis." There were militias there too.

If Rachel or Anderson blanket label the entire group of folks "white supremists"...so will the followers.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 03, 2020, 06:38:52 PM

Trudeau is the good guy. He does things like this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53494560

Such a scam artist.

Now see, did you even read my reply to you - today or on previous posts? I agree with you so what is your point? I think he is essentially an entitled brat but that doesn't make him a raciest.
As far as corruption is concerned it would be pocket change to Trump, who would of course, never appoint family members to any official position - would he?. And just FYI, his wife was a TV personality prior to his taking office and his mother is the former wife of Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, so they had at least some legitimacy to speakers. And the amounts involved - pocket change to Trump.

Yes, I read your other posts. Trump is also an entitled brat but that doesn't make him a racist either. In fact, the evidence is actually more against Trudeau than it is against Trump as far as racism goes (multiple instances of blackface). Your "evidence" against Trump is ugh..."did you read this book?!?!?"

Trump is also a scam artist. However, the media hates Trump but loves Trudeau. So, there are more eyes watching out for him which reduces the scam level.  Biden is also a scam artist. Look no further than his son Hunter.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 03, 2020, 06:42:27 PM
To all of you's that are trying to rationalize the there were fine people on both side. I would refer you to that old saying of your grandma: show me who your friends you are are and I will tell you who you are. And it sure looks like nazis and other of their despicable ilk are really good friends of Trump.

I will tell you this. If I ever showed up at a nazi march I would have gotten the nazi slapped out of me. Oh and the "there were good people among the nazis" argument wouldn't have gotten me very far.

Tell us how many Nazi's are in America?

You have pictures of thousands of Nazi's protesting in cities all over America?

Show me the American Nazi Party and their brethren Trump supporters burning and looting American cities.

Please show us.

Per liberal thinking, I think the correct answer here is "all Trump supporters." So that would put it at 63 million Americas or so?



Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 03, 2020, 07:39:50 PM

“Yes, I read your other posts. Trump is also an entitled brat but that doesn't make him a racist either. In fact, the evidence is actually more against Trudeau than it is against Trump as far as racism goes (multiple instances of blackface). Your "evidence" against Trump is ugh..."did you read this book?!?!?"”


Well did you read them? No.

I cited two books that refer to his racism and you dismiss them without making any attempt to read them. Why? Because you want to avoid anything that is negative about Trump.

Of course I could spend a lot of time researching the dozens and dozens of incidents showing Trumps long history of racism, but you would simply dismiss them because you see only what you want to see. So why should I waste my time?

If you were honest and were really interested in discovering if Trump is, or is not, a raciest you could easily research it. The examples are endless. And they are not very hard to find, but the truth is that you don’t want to know because it might further compromise your self-justifications for supporting someone who you know is corrupt and incompetent. But I will tell you this. The examples of Trump’s racism far exceeds some 20 something twit getting dressed up for Halloween parties.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 03, 2020, 07:58:56 PM

“Yes, I read your other posts. Trump is also an entitled brat but that doesn't make him a racist either. In fact, the evidence is actually more against Trudeau than it is against Trump as far as racism goes (multiple instances of blackface). Your "evidence" against Trump is ugh..."did you read this book?!?!?"”


Well did you read them? No.

I cited two books that refer to his racism and you dismiss them without making any attempt to read them. Why? Because you want to avoid anything that is negative about Trump.

Of course I could spend a lot of time researching the dozens and dozens of incidents showing Trumps long history of racism, but you would simply dismiss them because you see only what you want to see. So why should I waste my time?

LOL If its as obvious as you guys claim, it would not need "lots of time researching" to find your answers.

If you were honest and were really interested in discovering if Trump is, or is not, a raciest you could easily research it. The examples are endless. And they are not very hard to find, but the truth is that you don’t want to know because it might further compromise your self-justifications for supporting someone who you know is corrupt and incompetent. But I will tell you this. The examples of Trump’s racism far exceeds some 20 something twit getting dressed up for Halloween parties.

This brilliantly contradicts you previous paragraph. If they are "not very hard to find" and "examples are endless", then why would you need to spend "lots of time researching"? If fact, its proven quite unique, how much time you've spent posting about the dearth of evidence, while also refusing to point to anything specifically. But we know why that is.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 04, 2020, 04:18:37 AM

“Yes, I read your other posts. Trump is also an entitled brat but that doesn't make him a racist either. In fact, the evidence is actually more against Trudeau than it is against Trump as far as racism goes (multiple instances of blackface). Your "evidence" against Trump is ugh..."did you read this book?!?!?"”


Well did you read them? No.

I cited two books that refer to his racism and you dismiss them without making any attempt to read them. Why? Because you want to avoid anything that is negative about Trump.

Of course I could spend a lot of time researching the dozens and dozens of incidents showing Trumps long history of racism, but you would simply dismiss them because you see only what you want to see. So why should I waste my time?

If you were honest and were really interested in discovering if Trump is, or is not, a raciest you could easily research it. The examples are endless. And they are not very hard to find, but the truth is that you don’t want to know because it might further compromise your self-justifications for supporting someone who you know is corrupt and incompetent. But I will tell you this. The examples of Trump’s racism far exceeds some 20 something twit getting dressed up for Halloween parties.

Have you read the books?

Trump might be a racist. Trudeau also might be a racist. Biden also might be a racist. As far as actual evidence, Trudeau and Biden seem worse. We talked about Trudeau's blackface but how about this from Biden?

"[In] 1977, Biden worried his children would grow up in a 'racial jungle if immigration is not done in an orderly way,'

and

""I've had a great relationship. In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking," Biden said."

Totally not racist!


Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 04, 2020, 05:26:35 AM
"All I am saying is that you are brainwashed by Rachel Madow and clowns like Brian Stelter."

Well I kind of doubt that.

Especially as the only time I have ever heard of that Rachael person is when you or Greg have mentioned her once before. And Stetler I think I have seen ads for him on CNN?

By the way, if they are some sort of news people I happen to get most of my news these days from outside the USA. I do listen to CNN at times and listened to FOX for 2 hours a day last year during commuting to and from work.

But of course Trump people believe all the world wide media is ‘fake news’ except for FOX. For some reason the whole world media is against Trump. Now why would that be? Ever wonder about that?

OF course the majority of the world's media doesn't like Trump!

They are liberal and they CAN'T control him - they hate him for it. Trump totally bypasses them and provokes them to report the truth.

Trump has single handedly DESTROYED the mainstream media with Twitter. The man has 20+ million followers and he can control his own narrative.

They hate him for it - do you blame them? He threatens their very power.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 04, 2020, 05:31:32 AM
You can't come up with the racists Trump rants because their aren't any (It's SO obvious). I know the "list is endless".

I'm still waiting for those pictures/videos of THOUSANDS of Nazi's and Trump supporters burning down the cities and looting.

If you could come up with them - you actually might change my mind.

But as long as you can't - I'll just assume you're brainwashed.  Let's just have a FEW facts for once.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 04, 2020, 06:03:39 AM
Ha ha. The reason it would take so long to research and list all of Trump’s incidents of racism is not that they are hard to find, it is simply that there are so many.

But then, if they were listed for you would just ignore them saying that the media made them up. However, if you Google "Trump Racism" you will get oveer 300 million hits. Wonder why?

What does it say about people who can look at obvious raciest actions and deny the guy is raciest. Remember when he said that the Indiana-born federal judge could not be impartial because he was "Mexican" .  Naa, that’s not raciest.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-07-28/trumps-racist-behavior-presidential-politics-history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/trump-racism-examples_n_5991dcabe4b09071f69b9261?ri18n=true

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/03/massive-repudiation-trumps-racist-politics-is-building/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/07/time-racial-euphanisms-is-over/

https://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/web-video/paul-ryan-trump-made-textbook-definition-racist-comment

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-trumps-racism-isnt-new-but-now-its-destroying-america/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/desperate-trump-bets-racism-2020-election-n1233116

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2020/08/02/republicans-embrace-trump-racism-give-up-on-black-voters-column/5559249002/

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-allies-repost-racist-messaging-reelection-effort/story?id=71562138

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-rhetoric-and-reality-of-donald-trumps-racism

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/us/politics/trump-white-power-video-racism.html

Etc, etc, etc....
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 04, 2020, 06:13:40 AM
Nice Job CW!

I like it when you put up or shut up!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 04, 2020, 08:38:35 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaLeahyu1hI

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 04, 2020, 09:23:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaLeahyu1hI

From PsychCentral:

“I’m a little confused by claims made by Dr. Robert Epstein and his assertion, based upon a single study of 95 participants, that Google somehow intentionally biased the results shown before the 2016 U.S. presidential election. And therefore, likely impacted the election results itself.

That’s a huge assertion to make. One would hope that an esteemed researcher such as Dr. Epstein would have the scientific data to back it up. Unfortunately, I don’t see it.

Science is only objective up until the point where a scientist acknowledges and accounts for her or his own biases. Science is not based on a preset agenda, or an attempt to settle a score. I’m not certain Dr. Epstein has kept his own biases in check in his apparent witch hunt to take down Google for offering “biased” search results.

Google has always offered biased search results. If you don’t understand that this has to be the case with any search engine, then you might need a quick refresher course on how search engines work.

There is no such thing as unbiased search results.” 

Check the article for more info on this.
https://psychcentral.com/blog/dr-epstein-political-bias-google-search-results/
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 04, 2020, 09:42:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaLeahyu1hI

From PsychCentral:

“I’m a little confused by claims made by Dr. Robert Epstein and his assertion, based upon a single study of 95 participants, that Google somehow intentionally biased the results shown before the 2016 U.S. presidential election. And therefore, likely impacted the election results itself.

That’s a huge assertion to make. One would hope that an esteemed researcher such as Dr. Epstein would have the scientific data to back it up. Unfortunately, I don’t see it.

Science is only objective up until the point where a scientist acknowledges and accounts for her or his own biases. Science is not based on a preset agenda, or an attempt to settle a score. I’m not certain Dr. Epstein has kept his own biases in check in his apparent witch hunt to take down Google for offering “biased” search results.

Google has always offered biased search results. If you don’t understand that this has to be the case with any search engine, then you might need a quick refresher course on how search engines work.

There is no such thing as unbiased search results.” 

Check the article for more info on this.
https://psychcentral.com/blog/dr-epstein-political-bias-google-search-results/

The guy said he was an ardent Democrat and Hillary supporter. I agree though that there should be more work done. But does anyone honestly believe big tech doesn't manipulate? That's like saying the NSA with their massive budget doesn't use it to spy on American citizens. My point is, democrats cried and cried about Russian election interference yet there is almost certainly influence going on from other parties as well.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 04, 2020, 09:49:39 AM
He's a great question. Why do we care if data is manipulated or falsely presented? On either side. If you are stupid enough to get duped or not able to think for yourself, you deserve what comes to you. Its just insulting to the average person that many, especially those on the left, feel the need to tell you that youre too stupid to think for yourself and therefore THEY should be able to moderate anything that comes your way. Which then also opens the possibility for those same folks to manipulate the flow of data and information.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 04, 2020, 01:19:07 PM
“ Why do we care if data is manipulated or falsely presented? On either side. If you are stupid enough to get duped or not able to think for yourself, you deserve what comes to you.”

Here is the problem though. Several US Elections over the past number of years have been decided by a relatively small number of votes. Didn’t George W win Florida by 270 votes and that gave him the election? It wouldn’t take many stupid voters to get duped to swing an election.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 04, 2020, 02:02:47 PM
“ Why do we care if data is manipulated or falsely presented? On either side. If you are stupid enough to get duped or not able to think for yourself, you deserve what comes to you.”

Here is the problem though. Several US Elections over the past number of years have been decided by a relatively small number of votes. Didn’t George W win Florida by 270 votes and that gave him the election? It wouldn’t take many stupid voters to get duped to swing an election.

Maybe we should have in person voting only and voter ID laws enacted with a free ID obtained through some easy process.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 04, 2020, 02:13:11 PM
“ Why do we care if data is manipulated or falsely presented? On either side. If you are stupid enough to get duped or not able to think for yourself, you deserve what comes to you.”

Here is the problem though. Several US Elections over the past number of years have been decided by a relatively small number of votes. Didn’t George W win Florida by 270 votes and that gave him the election? It wouldn’t take many stupid voters to get duped to swing an election.

Maybe we should have in person voting only and voter ID laws enacted with a free ID obtained through some easy process.
The free ID with easy process makes a lot of sense. I don't know if there's some constitutional stuff against that.

But in person voting only is tough. What do you do with the military, people away on business, people that can't make it to a polling place (stuck in hospital, low mobility) etc?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 04, 2020, 02:23:04 PM
“ Why do we care if data is manipulated or falsely presented? On either side. If you are stupid enough to get duped or not able to think for yourself, you deserve what comes to you.”

Here is the problem though. Several US Elections over the past number of years have been decided by a relatively small number of votes. Didn’t George W win Florida by 270 votes and that gave him the election? It wouldn’t take many stupid voters to get duped to swing an election.

Maybe we should have in person voting only and voter ID laws enacted with a free ID obtained through some easy process.
The free ID with easy process makes a lot of sense. I don't know if there's some constitutional stuff against that.

But in person voting only is tough. What do you do with the military, people away on business, people that can't make it to a polling place (stuck in hospital, low mobility) etc?

Agree with what both of you say.

I think though, that you will probably always have to have absentee voting. However here, advanced polls have been very popular, in fact advance voting is a significant portion of total votes - and it would cut down or could even be an option to absentee voting. Now I know this isn't PC, but perhaps people should take some sort of general knowledge or IQ test to qualify to vote. Never happen of course, but ...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 04, 2020, 02:41:20 PM
“ Why do we care if data is manipulated or falsely presented? On either side. If you are stupid enough to get duped or not able to think for yourself, you deserve what comes to you.”

Here is the problem though. Several US Elections over the past number of years have been decided by a relatively small number of votes. Didn’t George W win Florida by 270 votes and that gave him the election? It wouldn’t take many stupid voters to get duped to swing an election.

Once you start to dictate qualification of voters based on perception of "who's stupid", that wades into discrimination. Either you can discriminate or you cant.

For the record I think voting should be somewhat more weighted towards giving qualified folks, who contribute more than others, more say. A self employed individual who provides jobs for two dozens employees and pays $100K a year in taxes should have more of a say than the 30 year old bum who smokes pot and plays video games all day, only inconvenienced by having work a few hours a week at GameStop to keep the lights on.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 04, 2020, 02:43:40 PM
“ Why do we care if data is manipulated or falsely presented? On either side. If you are stupid enough to get duped or not able to think for yourself, you deserve what comes to you.”

Here is the problem though. Several US Elections over the past number of years have been decided by a relatively small number of votes. Didn’t George W win Florida by 270 votes and that gave him the election? It wouldn’t take many stupid voters to get duped to swing an election.

Maybe we should have in person voting only and voter ID laws enacted with a free ID obtained through some easy process.
The free ID with easy process makes a lot of sense. I don't know if there's some constitutional stuff against that.

But in person voting only is tough. What do you do with the military, people away on business, people that can't make it to a polling place (stuck in hospital, low mobility) etc?

Agree with what both of you say.

I think though, that you will probably always have to have absentee voting. However here, advanced polls have been very popular, in fact advance voting is a significant portion of total votes - and it would cut down or could even be an option to absentee voting. Now I know this isn't PC, but perhaps people should take some sort of general knowledge or IQ test to qualify to vote. Never happen of course, but ...

Nothing to do with PC. What you say should be flat out illegal. We don't have an IQ test for people that want to be president or members of parliament do we? Retarded people are also citizens of the republic so they get to vote. One doesn't get do skip paying taxes if they're retarded do they?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 04, 2020, 02:44:22 PM
“ Why do we care if data is manipulated or falsely presented? On either side. If you are stupid enough to get duped or not able to think for yourself, you deserve what comes to you.”

Here is the problem though. Several US Elections over the past number of years have been decided by a relatively small number of votes. Didn’t George W win Florida by 270 votes and that gave him the election? It wouldn’t take many stupid voters to get duped to swing an election.

Once you start to dictate qualification of voters based on perception of "who's stupid", that wades into discrimination. Either you can discriminate or you cant.

For the record I think voting should be somewhat more weighted towards giving qualified folks, who contribute more than others, more say. A self employed individual who provides jobs for two dozens employees and pays $100K a year in taxes should have more of a say than the 30 year old bum who smokes pot and plays video games all day, only inconvenienced by having work a few hours a week at GameStop to keep the lights on.
This democracy stuff is hard I see...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 04, 2020, 02:56:03 PM
“ Why do we care if data is manipulated or falsely presented? On either side. If you are stupid enough to get duped or not able to think for yourself, you deserve what comes to you.”

Here is the problem though. Several US Elections over the past number of years have been decided by a relatively small number of votes. Didn’t George W win Florida by 270 votes and that gave him the election? It wouldn’t take many stupid voters to get duped to swing an election.

Once you start to dictate qualification of voters based on perception of "who's stupid", that wades into discrimination. Either you can discriminate or you cant.

For the record I think voting should be somewhat more weighted towards giving qualified folks, who contribute more than others, more say. A self employed individual who provides jobs for two dozens employees and pays $100K a year in taxes should have more of a say than the 30 year old bum who smokes pot and plays video games all day, only inconvenienced by having work a few hours a week at GameStop to keep the lights on.
This democracy stuff is hard I see...

Yea, says the one complaining about voters being exposed to content that might cause them to vote differently than you'd like and suggesting only material independently approved be allowed to circulate... This also isn't a pure democracy. But thats higher level stuff.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 04, 2020, 03:01:54 PM
Where did I say and suggest that?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 04, 2020, 03:07:04 PM
So you've never claimed to have an issue with all that magic stuff the MSM likes to call "Russian propaganda" and "Trump's lies"? You know, the only reason Trump "stole" the election? People should be able to fact check and determine this stuff for themselves. After all Democracy is easy! Just listen to Rachel, and Don, and Anderson and rb!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 04, 2020, 03:24:05 PM
Liberal/MSM "Russian Propaganda"

Russians hacked the DNC and leaked emails!

Are the emails real? Yup

Did they detail actual events that happened? Yup

Like Hillary scheming to rig the election against Bernie? Yup

Or all of Donna Brazils corruption? Yup

So what s the problem? Why dont the American people deserve to know about this? Oh because its Russian propaganda!

So even if its true, it should remain hidden and under wraps, so that the voter doesnt know about it? Yes

All this while the Obama administration utilizes the FBI to illegally spy on the Trump campaign and coordinates "leaking" info with their MSM media allies.


Indeed very interesting which battles some choose to fight. Its only fair game if its on "our side" apparently.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 04, 2020, 03:26:46 PM
Those suggesting adding barriers and weights to democratic voting are simply ignorant of history and ethics. Not even worth debating. Take your ignorance elsewhere.

In terms of Russia, they didn't hold a gun to anyone's head. But they hacked one party's communications and spread propaganda via social media in favor of one party. 

It's not a good idea to allow other countries to spread propaganda during your elections. Particularly when leading candidates have social and economic connections to that country.

Older citizens of the USA should know this from experience. Younger citizens should do some research (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention)

In fact if such interference does occur, it's something you might want to have investigated.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 04, 2020, 03:27:59 PM
So you've never claimed to have an issue with all that magic stuff the MSM likes to call "Russian propaganda" and "Trump's lies"? You know, the only reason Trump "stole" the election? People should be able to fact check and determine this stuff for themselves. After all Democracy is easy! Just listen to Rachel, and Don, and Anderson and rb!

So you don't have specific examples and so you do some MAGA babble to distract.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 04, 2020, 03:31:07 PM
So you've never claimed to have an issue with all that magic stuff the MSM likes to call "Russian propaganda" and "Trump's lies"? You know, the only reason Trump "stole" the election? People should be able to fact check and determine this stuff for themselves. After all Democracy is easy! Just listen to Rachel, and Don, and Anderson and rb!

So you don't have specific examples and so you do some MAGA babble to distract.

You've never complained about those things? Yes or no. Real simple bud. Keep dodging. Your post history has the answers. Not hard.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 04, 2020, 03:35:12 PM
So you've never claimed to have an issue with all that magic stuff the MSM likes to call "Russian propaganda" and "Trump's lies"? You know, the only reason Trump "stole" the election? People should be able to fact check and determine this stuff for themselves. After all Democracy is easy! Just listen to Rachel, and Don, and Anderson and rb!

So you don't have specific examples and so you do some MAGA babble to distract.

You've never complained about those things? Yes or no. Real simple bud. Keep dodging. Your post history has the answers. Not hard.
Nope, never complained that Trump stole the election. Might have mentioned that Trump lies, but that's a really a fact. And no I never talk about Rachel, Don and Anderson cause I have no idea what they do. So... try again?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 05, 2020, 05:01:18 AM
Ha ha. The reason it would take so long to research and list all of Trump’s incidents of racism is not that they are hard to find, it is simply that there are so many.

But then, if they were listed for you would just ignore them saying that the media made them up. However, if you Google "Trump Racism" you will get oveer 300 million hits. Wonder why?

What does it say about people who can look at obvious raciest actions and deny the guy is raciest. Remember when he said that the Indiana-born federal judge could not be impartial because he was "Mexican" .  Naa, that’s not raciest.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-07-28/trumps-racist-behavior-presidential-politics-history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/trump-racism-examples_n_5991dcabe4b09071f69b9261?ri18n=true

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/03/massive-repudiation-trumps-racist-politics-is-building/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/07/time-racial-euphanisms-is-over/

https://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/web-video/paul-ryan-trump-made-textbook-definition-racist-comment

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-trumps-racism-isnt-new-but-now-its-destroying-america/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/desperate-trump-bets-racism-2020-election-n1233116

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2020/08/02/republicans-embrace-trump-racism-give-up-on-black-voters-column/5559249002/

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-allies-repost-racist-messaging-reelection-effort/story?id=71562138

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-rhetoric-and-reality-of-donald-trumps-racism

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/us/politics/trump-white-power-video-racism.html

Etc, etc, etc....


Look at the last one. He immediately deleted it. Is it plausible (dare I say likely) that he didn't realize someone was saying that in the video? I didn't find the actual video so I don't know how loud the statement was.

Look at the first one. I'll examine their first hit: I. “You Don’t Want to Live With Them Either”

He took over the company in 1971 (at 25 years old - remember, things people do in their 20s don't count, according to you). The complaint was in 1973. Could it be that he simply let prior polices happen? Let's say he was directly responsible. Isn't it fair to say that he may have been racist then but less racist now?

The next section: “Bring Back the Death Penalty”

This one is concerning because he called the settlement a disgrace and said he would against insist on guilt as of 2016.

Like I said, I don't care for Trump but I'll probably vote for him as of right now. If for no other reason than for the Supreme Court nominations (and to fight off the free college, gender identity, etc. of the left). Trump has said/done some racist things. Biden has said/done some as has Trudeau.

I don't like either but I'm sure I'm not voting for Biden. I don't want drag queen story hour at schools. ;)



Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 05, 2020, 02:32:48 PM
Well the lefties just got Kindergarten Cop cancelled. Apparently it "glorifies" over-policing. LOL yup. Meanwhile Joe Biden continues to lose his mind. Flipping out on a reporter asking about cognitive tests...while severely mispronouncing the same word multiple times. This is the alternative to Trump?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 06, 2020, 06:26:29 PM
So, after all the talk about Trump's appearance from many..has no one noticed Joseph? Guy has more hair now than he did in the 80s. Clearly has had a few face lifts, my gosh I dont think Ive seen a faker set of chompers, and yea...he's also looking a little orange too. But I guess it all depends on what color glasses you're observing things through.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 07, 2020, 04:21:13 AM
The Biden interview was funny but also sad. I do think that when our only two options are Trump vs Biden, that is a sign of an empire in decline.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 07, 2020, 08:03:23 AM
Politics has gotten so vicious, who in their right mind would want to run? Because of that we are left to choose the least disastrous candidate. Has democracy reached the point where it is destroying itself?  The alternatives look pretty bleak.

The US two party system has reached the point where it no longer is working. A third party would give more balance to the system and tends to keep the politicians a bit more honest.

Given that segments are moving to the far left and others are moving far right, this seems the perfect time for a third more centralist party.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Parsad on August 07, 2020, 06:35:21 PM
Well the lefties just got Kindergarten Cop cancelled. Apparently it "glorifies" over-policing. LOL yup. Meanwhile Joe Biden continues to lose his mind. Flipping out on a reporter asking about cognitive tests...while severely mispronouncing the same word multiple times. This is the alternative to Trump?

Liberals are stupid for taking such things too far.  Biden might also be as senile as Trump, but he doesn't do shit like this:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-trump-lawyer-helped-191204090.html

Trump will do anything to win...even using his cronies and connections to push Kanye (most talented moron to exist) to run and steal votes from Biden.  And you guys complain about AOC, etc.  Cheers!

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 11, 2020, 01:31:02 PM
Good Ole Joe just cant get out of his own way. More than half of polled voters doubt Joe will be able to make it through 4 years. So...pick the box checking diversity socialist, giving women everywhere hope that one can sleep their way to the top! He's totally lost it.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8613893/Poll-reveals-half-Democrats-dont-think-Joe-Biden-serve-four-years-elected-president.html
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 11, 2020, 02:41:28 PM
".... giving women everywhere hope that one can sleep their way to the top!"

You are a real class act.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 11, 2020, 02:45:03 PM
You must not be familiar with Ms. Harris....

EDIT: Here's just one of the backdrops to her "rise"....

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/kamala-harris-launched-political-career-with-120k-patronage-job-from-boyfriend-willie-brown
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 11, 2020, 03:01:06 PM
Well, again we go down to the lowest common denominator.

Pence and Harris are two dull, tarnished, crud-filled sides to the same coin. With those two, it's "you throw marijuana hypocrisy, I throw sexuality hypocrisy." And down the line it goes, in the end it's a wash.

And then Biden eeks out against Trump.

My guess is Biden's campaign figured the above logic gets the marginal centrist to vote their way, and the Harris pick is attractive to women & minorities who would otherwise stay at home rather than vote between four old white dudes.

Ain't politics great?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 11, 2020, 03:11:36 PM
You must not be familiar with Ms. Harris....

EDIT: Here's just one of the backdrops to her "rise"....

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/kamala-harris-launched-political-career-with-120k-patronage-job-from-boyfriend-willie-brown

As I said .... you're a class act, you remind me of your classy hero, Trump. Water seeks its own level I guess.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 11, 2020, 03:21:00 PM
You must not be familiar with Ms. Harris....

EDIT: Here's just one of the backdrops to her "rise"....

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/kamala-harris-launched-political-career-with-120k-patronage-job-from-boyfriend-willie-brown

As I said .... you're a class act, you remind me of your classy hero, Trump. Water seeks its own level I guess.

LOL. As I said a while ago, this election would expose you as a fraud. And here you are. Supporting the same slime, corruption, and filth when its on "your side" that you claim to detest with Trump & Co.... Bravo.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 11, 2020, 03:56:51 PM
Biden doesn't look demented to me. Ok maybe very early stages of dementia; which Trump looks like he has too. Reagan had real dementia especially towards the end of his Presidency.

Trump also very obviously has antisocial and/or narcissistic personality disorder and no interest in public services. I'd take someone with some dementia over that to be honest. Also would take dementia over someone who's treasonous, which likely results from the personality disorders mentioned. Honestly I'd take a ham and cheese sandwich over that.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 11, 2020, 04:20:55 PM
“And here you are. Supporting the same slime, corruption, and filth when its on "your side" that you claim to detest with Trump & Co...”

Your sense of proportion is seriously distorted.

Comparing Trump/Pence to Biden/Harris on corruption is like comparing US Covid performance to most other countries.

But then again your track history doesn’t inspire confidence, does it? Didn't you maintain Covid 19 was just another flu? Didn't you berate people for being were crazy and over reacting to a non existent crisis. How did that work out?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 11, 2020, 04:59:26 PM
“And here you are. Supporting the same slime, corruption, and filth when its on "your side" that you claim to detest with Trump & Co...”

Your sense of proportion is seriously distorted.

Comparing Trump/Pence to Biden/Harris on corruption is like comparing US Covid performance to most other countries.

But then again your track history doesn’t inspire confidence, does it? Didn't you maintain Covid 19 was just another flu? Didn't you berate people for being were crazy and over reacting to a non existent crisis. How did that work out?

LOLOL...No, I really did laugh out loud at this comment. How did that work out? The stock market says HI!!! Family is healthy as ever. Friends are good. Only people I know who've had covid...."flu", "flu", and "Ive had worse cases of the...drumroll....FLU"! But yea, keep drumming on with the rest of your kind...cash is king, right? Sell in March and go hide in the basement just like Dalal.

I swear, I still cant get over "how did that work out?". Its like a guy who fell asleep during the ball game, and then woke up talking trash about how his team dominated....not knowing they lost! Embarrassing....

Once again, I look forward to this coming election as it will continue to expose all the frauds and hypocrites.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 11, 2020, 05:12:38 PM
Can't help but feel sorry for someone who thinks 164,000 dead people is no big deal. The stock market did well and that is all that matters. As I said before you have a very twisted sense of priorities.

It says a lot about a person that feels this way.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 11, 2020, 05:15:16 PM
“And here you are. Supporting the same slime, corruption, and filth when its on "your side" that you claim to detest with Trump & Co...”

Your sense of proportion is seriously distorted.

Comparing Trump/Pence to Biden/Harris on corruption is like comparing US Covid performance to most other countries.

But then again your track history doesn’t inspire confidence, does it? Didn't you maintain Covid 19 was just another flu? Didn't you berate people for being were crazy and over reacting to a non existent crisis. How did that work out?

LOLOL...No, I really did laugh out loud at this comment. How did that work out? The stock market says HI!!! Family is healthy as ever. Friends are good. Only people I know who've had covid...."flu", "flu", and "Ive had worse cases of the...drumroll....FLU"! But yea, keep drumming on with the rest of your kind...cash is king, right? Sell in March and go hide in the basement just like Dalal.

I swear, I still cant get over "how did that work out?". Its like a guy who fell asleep during the ball game, and then woke up talking trash about how his team dominated....not knowing they lost! Embarrassing....

Once again, I look forward to this coming election as it will continue to expose all the frauds and hypocrites.

Straight up clowning! I continue to occupy rent-free space in this guy's head! LOL!

Mr. Triggered by Kamala's old BF but plz don't talk about Trump & pornstars, blatant nepotism, etc! I mean, he's just "behaving like a normal guy" and has earned all of his success in life per Gregmal, but Greggie loves calling out women for what he perceives as favoritism and unfair advantages--just don't get him started about the women on CNBC! These women got to the top by scandalous ways, but when a Man does it as blatant as Trumpy, it's A-Ok! A real class act, indeed.

So triggered by a minority woman with power, it makes his skin crawl! A white boy like Trump (and Jared and Don Jr) deserve everything life has given him and more though, do not question it!

For some reason more triggered by minorities protesting when cops kneel on their necks than a virus that's killed 150k. But hey, his family is A-OK, so to hell with everyone else!

The covid pandy exposed how flawed NY is with all the deaths that occurred there, but at the same time, the deaths were all faked by doctors forging death certificates (a.k.a. holding two completely opposing viewpoints in one's head). Some clown logic! Makes one's brain hurt just thinking about it!

BTW, really look forward to your Daddy explaining this one:
https://www.wfla.com/news/politics/president-trump-ivanka-made-donations-to-harriss-campaign-in-2014/

Quote
SAN FRANCISCO, Calif. (KRON) – President Donald Trump and his daughter Ivanka donated money to re-elect Senator Kamala Harris as Attorney General back in 2014, according to records.

Three donations were made under their names for thousands of dollars:

Sept. 26, 2011: Donald J. Trump donated $5,000
Feb. 20, 2013: Donald J. Trump donated $1,000
June 3, 2014: Ivanka Trump donated $2,000
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 11, 2020, 05:16:07 PM
Can't help but feel sorry for someone who thinks 164,000 dead people is no big deal. The stock market did well and that is all that matters. As I said before you have a very twisted sense of priorities.

It says a lot about a person that feels this way.

I control whats within my power, and then react to what the world gives me. But by all means...keep drumming up things you have no control over as an outlet for your emotional, political fits....says a lot about a person!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 11, 2020, 05:16:17 PM
Can't help but feel sorry for someone who thinks 164,000 dead people is no big deal. The stock market did well and that is all that matters. As I said before you have a very twisted sense of priorities.

It says a lot about a person that feels this way.

Just wait for him to continue to insult people, women, and minorities throughout the forum and then whine when the moderator dares to do anything about it as "discrimination against muh conservatism!" Snowflake!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 11, 2020, 05:17:12 PM
“And here you are. Supporting the same slime, corruption, and filth when its on "your side" that you claim to detest with Trump & Co...”

Your sense of proportion is seriously distorted.

Comparing Trump/Pence to Biden/Harris on corruption is like comparing US Covid performance to most other countries.

But then again your track history doesn’t inspire confidence, does it? Didn't you maintain Covid 19 was just another flu? Didn't you berate people for being were crazy and over reacting to a non existent crisis. How did that work out?

LOLOL...No, I really did laugh out loud at this comment. How did that work out? The stock market says HI!!! Family is healthy as ever. Friends are good. Only people I know who've had covid...."flu", "flu", and "Ive had worse cases of the...drumroll....FLU"! But yea, keep drumming on with the rest of your kind...cash is king, right? Sell in March and go hide in the basement just like Dalal.

I swear, I still cant get over "how did that work out?". Its like a guy who fell asleep during the ball game, and then woke up talking trash about how his team dominated....not knowing they lost! Embarrassing....

Once again, I look forward to this coming election as it will continue to expose all the frauds and hypocrites.

Straight up clowning! I continue to occupy rent-free space in this guy's head! LOL!

Mr. Triggered by Kamala's old BF but plz don't talk about Trump & pornstars, blatant nepotism, etc! I mean, he's just "behaving like a normal guy" and has earned all of his success in life per Gregmal, but Greggie loves calling out women for what he perceives as favoritism and unfair advantages--just don't get him started about the women on CNBC! These women got to the top by scandalous ways, but when a Man does it as blatant as Trumpy, it's A-Ok! A real class act, indeed.

So triggered by a minority woman with power, it makes his skin crawl! A white boy like Trump (and Jared, and Ivanka, and Don Jr) deserve everything life has given him and more though, do not question it!

For some reason more triggered by minorities protesting when cops kneel on their necks than a virus that's killed 150k. But hey, his family is A-OK, so to hell with everyone else!

The covid pandy exposed how flawed NY is with all the deaths that occurred. there, but at the same time, the deaths were all faked by doctors forging death certificates (a.k.a. holding two completely opposing viewpoints in one's head). Some clown logic! Makes one's brain hurt just thinking about it!

BTW, really look forward to your Daddy explaining this one:
https://www.wfla.com/news/politics/president-trump-ivanka-made-donations-to-harriss-campaign-in-2014/

Quote
SAN FRANCISCO, Calif. (KRON) – President Donald Trump and his daughter Ivanka donated money to re-elect Senator Kamala Harris as Attorney General back in 2014, according to records.

Three donations were made under their names for thousands of dollars:

Sept. 26, 2011: Donald J. Trump donated $5,000
Feb. 20, 2013: Donald J. Trump donated $1,000
June 3, 2014: Ivanka Trump donated $2,000

Oh thank god! I was worried you wouldn't respond. Or that you left for good!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 11, 2020, 05:18:40 PM
“And here you are. Supporting the same slime, corruption, and filth when its on "your side" that you claim to detest with Trump & Co...”

Your sense of proportion is seriously distorted.

Comparing Trump/Pence to Biden/Harris on corruption is like comparing US Covid performance to most other countries.

But then again your track history doesn’t inspire confidence, does it? Didn't you maintain Covid 19 was just another flu? Didn't you berate people for being were crazy and over reacting to a non existent crisis. How did that work out?

LOLOL...No, I really did laugh out loud at this comment. How did that work out? The stock market says HI!!! Family is healthy as ever. Friends are good. Only people I know who've had covid...."flu", "flu", and "Ive had worse cases of the...drumroll....FLU"! But yea, keep drumming on with the rest of your kind...cash is king, right? Sell in March and go hide in the basement just like Dalal.

I swear, I still cant get over "how did that work out?". Its like a guy who fell asleep during the ball game, and then woke up talking trash about how his team dominated....not knowing they lost! Embarrassing....

Once again, I look forward to this coming election as it will continue to expose all the frauds and hypocrites.

Straight up clowning! I continue to occupy rent-free space in this guy's head! LOL!

Mr. Triggered by Kamala's old BF but plz don't talk about Trump & pornstars, blatant nepotism, etc! I mean, he's just "behaving like a normal guy" and has earned all of his success in life per Gregmal, but Greggie loves calling out women for what he perceives as favoritism and unfair advantages--just don't get him started about the women on CNBC! These women got to the top by scandalous ways, but when a Man does it as blatant as Trumpy, it's A-Ok! A real class act, indeed.

So triggered by a minority woman with power, it makes his skin crawl! A white boy like Trump (and Jared, and Ivanka, and Don Jr) deserve everything life has given him and more though, do not question it!

For some reason more triggered by minorities protesting when cops kneel on their necks than a virus that's killed 150k. But hey, his family is A-OK, so to hell with everyone else!

The covid pandy exposed how flawed NY is with all the deaths that occurred. there, but at the same time, the deaths were all faked by doctors forging death certificates (a.k.a. holding two completely opposing viewpoints in one's head). Some clown logic! Makes one's brain hurt just thinking about it!

BTW, really look forward to your Daddy explaining this one:
https://www.wfla.com/news/politics/president-trump-ivanka-made-donations-to-harriss-campaign-in-2014/

Quote
SAN FRANCISCO, Calif. (KRON) – President Donald Trump and his daughter Ivanka donated money to re-elect Senator Kamala Harris as Attorney General back in 2014, according to records.

Three donations were made under their names for thousands of dollars:

Sept. 26, 2011: Donald J. Trump donated $5,000
Feb. 20, 2013: Donald J. Trump donated $1,000
June 3, 2014: Ivanka Trump donated $2,000

Oh thank god! I was worried you wouldn't respond. Or that you left for good!

I'm just happy to know you still think about me all the time. Gives me lots of LOL's!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 11, 2020, 05:20:10 PM
Haha OK Dalal. Says the guys who vows to "no longer respond to such type" but then like Beetlejuice, within 60 seconds of saying his name...poof. He shows up!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 11, 2020, 05:24:29 PM
Bump

https://www.krqe.com/news/politics/us-elections-united-states/president-trump-ivanka-made-donations-to-harriss-campaign-in-2014/

Quote
SAN FRANCISCO, Calif. (KRON) – President Donald Trump and his daughter Ivanka donated money to re-elect Senator Kamala Harris as Attorney General back in 2014, according to records.

Three donations were made under their names for thousands of dollars:

Sept. 26, 2011: Donald J. Trump donated $5,000
Feb. 20, 2013: Donald J. Trump donated $1,000
June 3, 2014: Ivanka Trump donated $2,000

Enjoy your "outrage", LOL...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 11, 2020, 05:29:13 PM
Well...that would certainly dispel your "he's racist and hates women" narrative. Or conversely, you could say the corrupt and slimy stick together. Birds of a feather in fact. Interesting to see how invested you are in supporting this obviously deeply flawed candidate....For a while you presented yourself as a concerned citizen thoroughly concerned about bad actor politicians! Just another fraud.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 11, 2020, 05:30:54 PM
Well...that would certainly dispel your "he's racist and hates women" narrative. Or conversely, you could say the corrupt and slimy stick together. Birds of a feather in fact. Interesting to see how invested you are in supporting this obviously deeply flawed candidate....For a while you presented yourself as a concerned citizen thoroughly concerned about bad actor politicians! Just another fraud.

Of course, no one could ever meet the astronomic standards of integrity you possess and demonstrate on a regular basis, good SIR!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 11, 2020, 05:33:20 PM
Gergmal, so far in the past hour or so you insulted women by suggesting they get ahead by sleeping with people and then you make a big joke about 164,000 American citizens dying.

You might want to give it a rest before you destroy the little credibility you have left.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 11, 2020, 05:39:17 PM
Gergmal, so far in the past hour or so you insulted women by suggesting they get ahead by sleeping with people and then you make a big joke about 164,000 American citizens dying.

You might want to give it a rest before you destroy the little credibility you have left.

LOL nice try with the textbook liberal narrative slant. You and Beetlejuice should team up!

No, I sarcastically mocked the idea that Kamala Harris was an inspirational(let alone good) candidate. And I stated that she slept her way into politics...which is a fact.

And I dont see anywhere I mocked anyone dying. I simply stated that from the get go, I clearly communicated my thoughts relating to covid and the markets(you know, this is an investment forum) and that generally speaking, if something in life is out of my control, I respect that, and worry about the things that are.

Keep chasing your tail, fraud.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 11, 2020, 05:40:18 PM
Gergmal, so far in the past hour or so you insulted women by suggesting they get ahead by sleeping with people and then you make a big joke about 164,000 American citizens dying.

You might want to give it a rest before you destroy the little credibility you have left.

Be careful, you are discriminating against his "conservative values".

TBF he only tends to "suggest" that certain women (like Biden's VP pick or the CNBC females) got ahead by those means. Like his daddy, he likes to throw around innuendo, but please don't attack Trump for committing 10x worse offenses over a lifetime.

After all, like his Daddy, false equivalence fallacy is easy: "both sides are to blame" like in Charlottesville. So it's easy to cop out and say "both sides" are corrupt (clearly Kamala receiving a few thousand bucks from the Trumps must be as dirty as they are...), magnitude of corruption clearly does not matter (Trump >>> any other politician). That's how demagogues win--their bag of tricks works very well on some folks.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 11, 2020, 06:05:09 PM
I dont know if its "suggestion" or "innuendo" to claim an anchor(or multiple ones) had an affair with their boss, or that Biden's VP candidate screwed Willie Brown(30 years her senior) and as a result landed several very lucrative and high profile jobs while scoring political points. Both can easily be verified. Its either true, or it's not. Of course we could talk other issues. Like the more substantive subject relating to Harris's track record as prosecutor. But our friend cwericb has already loudly declared "I dont have to defend anyone" when asked for an opinion there...

Ironic though, having the accusation come from one notorious for being deliberately ambiguous or making grand claims while when pressed, declaring "I dont commit to anything"...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 11, 2020, 07:01:03 PM
As long as you are twisting facts and taking things out of context it’s a waste of time trying to discuss anything with you.  And by the way I am now, and have always been, a conservative. The problem is that you are extreme right wing and don’t seem to understand that.

Because of people like you who have tried to hijack the Republican Party, we have - as this thread is titled - “Republican Voters Against Trump”. But it suits your narrative to call anyone, including a lot of Republicans who don’t worship your hero Mr. Trump, “liberals, lefties, etc”.

You might want to ask yourself: Why are there so many Republicans trying to get a Democrat elected?  That might just be a tiny clue that there is something wrong with your Mr. Trump that you are missing.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 12, 2020, 01:59:40 PM
As long as you are twisting facts and taking things out of context it’s a waste of time trying to discuss anything with you.  And by the way I am now, and have always been, a conservative. The problem is that you are extreme right wing and don’t seem to understand that.

Because of people like you who have tried to hijack the Republican Party, we have - as this thread is titled - “Republican Voters Against Trump”. But it suits your narrative to call anyone, including a lot of Republicans who don’t worship your hero Mr. Trump, “liberals, lefties, etc”.

You might want to ask yourself: Why are there so many Republicans trying to get a Democrat elected?  That might just be a tiny clue that there is something wrong with your Mr. Trump that you are missing.

No one has hi-jacked the Republican Party -except Trump.

He dragged the party, kicking and screaming, into the party of the people.

BOTH parties have failed the American people - and the 2016 election was a repudiation of BOTH parties.
The "Never Trump" Republicans will never give up - and the Democrats will NEVER learn.

The American people are behind Trump because they are sick of Washington DC liars and lobbyists that DO NOT act in the best interest of America.
DC only cares about their own power, careers and fiefdoms.

Trump is the CHANGE that Americans want - as ugly as he is. Trump is a blunt instrument sent to Washington to get it's act together once and for all.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 12, 2020, 02:28:19 PM
For anyone who thinks Trump is tough on China, this is a good article outlining why he isn't. In fact, he's been a disaster:

https://thebulwark.com/did-trump-get-owned-by-china/

Btw, what has he done in response to the Russian-Taliban bounty deal? Genuinely wondering because from what I've seen there has been zero response and also zero condemnation. For the party that respects the troops, the GOP silence has been deafening. And these people are the same ones who are outraged at kneeling during the national anthem because it is supposedly disrespectful to the military.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 12, 2020, 02:51:14 PM
" Keep chasing your tail, fraud. "

Care to elaborate? Or are you again calling people names because you have nothing else to say?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 12, 2020, 03:10:43 PM
" Keep chasing your tail, fraud. "

Care to elaborate? Or are you again calling people names because you have nothing else to say?

Yes, since Im in a good mood Ill play along....

You regularly go on these emotional, moral higher ground driven poutfests about Trump, anyone who supports him, or even for that matter lambasting people who have never voted for Trump, or who previously voted for Obama, as long as they disagree with you.

You regularly tout how awful, racist, etc Trump is.....then:

-make excuses and defend Trudeau wearing blackface as "not racist"
- go full "I dont need to comment on anything" regarding the major character issues with Kamala Harris
- have been radio silent on the indisputably racist remarks made by Joe Biden in the last few weeks/month
-ask me how my approach to covid worked, when if nothing else was clear, I was chastised with great fanfare back in Feb/March for saying that its a nothing burger and to not panic/sell everything/go to cash but buy the market and quality companies... when I respond that, clear as day, it obviously worked out well, you somehow twist it into "I'm mocking dead people"
-I factually state events that transpired with Kamala Harris, and you act as if I've committed some grave offense
-Ive regularly given examples of Trump failures and character flaws yet every other post you continue to harp on "all you do is support everything Trump does"
-over and over you've been a fraud and a hypocrite with respect to sharing equal outrage when it comes to your side of politics. Everything has some obsession with Trump, but when the shoe is on the other foot you are radio silent, then weasel out of responsibility, or simply decide that "you'd dont need to address the issues", as was the case with the Harris/Biden behaviors.


Again, this election will be great at exposing plenty of others who have spent the past 4 years doing the same.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Jurgis on August 12, 2020, 03:24:42 PM
Btw, what has he done in response to the Russian-Taliban bounty deal? Genuinely wondering because from what I've seen there has been zero response and also zero condemnation. For the party that respects the troops, the GOP silence has been deafening. And these people are the same ones who are outraged at kneeling during the national anthem because it is supposedly disrespectful to the military.

Didn't you hear that Russian-Taliban bounty deal is fake news? Comrade Trump said so.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 12, 2020, 05:56:04 PM
“-make excuses and defend Trudeau wearing blackface as "not racist"

I don’t know how old you are but dressing up for Halloween was quite common twenty years ago or so. Some people dressed up a pirates, cowboys, Indians and yes some people darkened their faces it was not unusual. It was not done to disparage pirates, cowboys, Indians, or people of colour. I am not a Trudeau fan but probably knowing him and his background much better than you, I do not believe he is racist. And, in fact if you took the time to look at his background his track record is the exact opposite. But you read an article on the net and make your judgement from that.

- go full "I dont need to comment on anything" regarding the major character issues with Kamala Harris.

You demanded to know what I thought of Harris BEFORE she was selected to run as VP. I don’t know a lot about her and since she was not running for anything at the time I didn’t take your bait. That is like my challenging you on your opinion of Peter MacKay. Kind of irrelevant at the time.

- have been radio silent on the indisputably racist remarks made by Joe Biden in the last few weeks/month

No idea of what you are talking about.

-ask me how my approach to covid worked, when if nothing else was clear, I was chastised with great fanfare back in Feb/March for saying that its a nothing burger and to not panic/sell everything/go to cash but buy the market and quality companies... when I respond that, clear as day, it obviously worked out well, you somehow twist it into "I'm mocking dead people"

Well that is a bit of revisionist history. First off don't misquote me. I did not say "I'm mocking dead people". Secondly, you are still going on about how well the market is doing despite the virus but with no consideration of the deaths it has caused because you “have no control over that.” Your leader seems to have no control over it either. However, many other country's leaders have done so much better. Back then you were berating people for exaggerating the impact of the virus and downplaying it as much as possible - just as Trump had done  - and is still doing so today, despite 165,000 dead Americans and counting. It is the attitude towards those deaths that shocks the rest of the world -  you and Trump seem to think those deaths are just part of the cost of doing business. Right from the start you tried to downplay the seriousness of the problem, for instance you stated:

“... I'll be concerned when I can no longer count on one hand the number of deaths in one specific state. Or maybe collectively hear about a few dozen total deaths in America.”

“The only way this gets out badly, is if there is some really, really, really bad uncontrollable Resident Evil style situation. Super unlikely.”

“This is basically the flu.”

And regarding your faith in how well prepared the country was  “... with a multi week head start in terms of knowledge, and all this time to prepare?”

-I factually state events that transpired with Kamala Harris, and you act as if I've committed some grave offense

You were just slinging what you feel is dirt which is pretty high and mighty for a Trump supporter. Glass houses?

-Ive regularly given examples of Trump failures and character flaws yet every other post you continue to harp on "all you do is support everything Trump does"

 
Once again I don't think I said those words and you are misquoting me again. But since you brought it up, do you or do you not, support Trump?

-over and over you've been a fraud and a hypocrite with respect to sharing equal outrage when it comes to your side of politics. Everything has some obsession with Trump, but when the shoe is on the other foot you are radio silent, then weasel out of responsibility, or simply decide that "you'd don't need to address the issues", as was the case with the Harris/Biden behaviors.

As I said before, you challenged me to comment on Harris BEFORE she was selected - not after.  I had no opinion at the time and did not feel obligated to defend her since she was not running for anything. Again what if I ask how you feel about Peter MacKay?  No need to look him up, he is running for leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 12, 2020, 11:43:29 PM
Well...simply put....

I said..

"I'll be concerned when I can no longer count on one hand the number of deaths in one specific state. Or maybe collectively hear about a few dozen total deaths in America.”

At which point I got concerned, evaluated the information available, and made a decision. This is an investing forum...you know...The playbook for handling these things has been laid out, and is obvious. Anyone calling for a total world blowup or liquidity event simply wasn't paying attention to precedent.

“The only way this gets out badly, is if there is some really, really, really bad uncontrollable Resident Evil style situation. Super unlikely.”


Ok....didnt happen

“This is basically the flu.”

Aaaaaand, it is, for anyone not over the age of 65.

But since you brought it up, do you or do you not, support Trump?

I voted for Trump. That is not equal to...."I support everything about him personally"...Did you vote for Trudeau? Do you support wearing blackface? What a preposterous notion. You voted for someone so you support everything that they do, and everything they've done....Please...

The rest of your response doesnt really warrant a rebuttal.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Parsad on August 13, 2020, 12:12:09 AM
Can you really defend Trump, regardless of everything else he has said and done...but solely on the fact that the man wants his face on Mt. Rushmore, inquired about it on several occasions, and has not denied he has.  Really? 

Exactly how narcissistic do you have to be to think your face deserves to sit next to Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and Roosevelt?  That alone should get all of the Kim Jung Un warning bells going!  But nope, you guys will even ignore that! 

I don't think Trump is a racist as many do.  But I think he's just about everything else...bigoted, a buffoon, extremely insecure, a bully, a perfect example of a narcissist, chronic liar, really stupid (perhaps has some learning disabilities), greedy, and has an extreme need for praise.

Granted he's a wildcard (Maverick would be if he meant to create much of the chaos around him, but I think much of it just arises out of his stupidity), understands his base, and is amazing at getting the last word and obfuscating anything anyone else has to say...but really, you guys put a moron in office.
 He's so stupid, that his corruption is deemed as a personality trait and ignored...his family works and financially gains by working in the White House!

Whereas we have a numbnuts in power who tries to sneak his bribes through non-profits to his family, and he's torn apart by the press here (and rightfully so).  But he's not even remotely obvious about his deception, while Trump literally is handing his family Benjamins every day in front of everyone!  You Americans are just nuts!  Cheers!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 13, 2020, 06:07:05 AM
The Mt Rushmore thing was one of the wildest things Ive heard, which says a lot, even for him. I mean even if you try to be objective...lets say Trump falls somewhere in between what Cubsfan has laid out, and what cwericb thinks....we're still talking about a guy not even through his first term that has undoubtedly made quite a few blunders and been massively divisive...and he thinks he belongs in the Mt Rushmore category.....or it could have been done and leaked to troll the media and his haters, which would be awesome. But I'm not sure that is the case here. He really is one of the most narcissistic people Ive ever seen.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 13, 2020, 06:16:43 AM
The Mt Rushmore thing was one of the wildest things Ive heard, which says a lot, even for him. I mean even if you try to be objective...lets say Trump falls somewhere in between what Cubsfan has laid out, and what cwericb thinks....we're still talking about a guy not even through his first term that has undoubtedly made quite a few blunders and been massively divisive...and he thinks he belongs in the Mt Rushmore category.....or it could have been done and leaked to troll the media and his haters, which would be awesome. But I'm not sure that is the case here. He really is one of the most narcissistic people Ive ever seen.
That is so sad. But also encapsulates the Republican party of today quite well.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 13, 2020, 06:23:02 AM
Well put and I can’t add much to the above by Sanjeev.

But Greg, I will answer your question.

Did you vote for Trudeau? No, I did not vote for Mr. Trudeau, nor did I vote for his father. I actually voted Conservative, even though you keep calling me a liberal.

And there is also one other major point point of which you seem to be unaware or simply ignore. You still maintain the delusional thought that ...

“This is basically the flu.”  Aaaaaand, it is, for anyone not over the age of 65.

That would appear to be a really ill informed remark and seems to show how ill informed many of your opinions seem to be regarding Covid-19. However, since your agenda seems to be to support Trump in his attempts to downplay the virus and Trump's totally delusional and asinine attempts to ignore it, perhaps you might to consider the following: 

Every day we see more and more reports of serious aftereffects being experienced by people who have supposedly have recovered from Covid-19 - and most of these people are well under the age of 65 - 'cause, well you know, it is killing off all those old dudes over 65 whose time has come anyway.

These lingering effects appear to involve:
Confusion
Chronic shortness of breath
Lung scaring
Loss of taste
Loss of smell
Fatigue
Blood clots
Heart problems
Possible diabetes

Presently there are over 5,000,000 DIAGNOSED cases in the US and the real number is likely far higher and rapidly rising.

Since you only want to look at the pandemic from the financial viewpoint, have you considered the potential impact these aftereffects may have on future healthcare in the country? Have you factored in the costs of losing people from the workforce? And it could be years before we understand the full impact of the virus. Remember the US has 4% of the world population and 20-25% of Covid-19 deaths. The abysmal job the country has done in handling this outbreak may well impact the country for years to come. Will history regard Covid-19 as "The American Virus"?

And you still think this is just the flu?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 06:34:53 AM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 13, 2020, 06:45:43 AM
Quote
Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

Well what you "don't see" could put Rembrandt to shame. Just from today's news:

President Donald Trump proclaimed Wednesday that the U.S. Postal Service doesn't have the capacity to handle an unprecedented increase in mail-in ballots because it lacks funds that his administration is blocking, remarks that were immediately viewed as an open admission of election sabotage by a president who has previously called USPS "a joke."

So how about not engaging in election tampering and voter suppression.

The fact that you still support this guy is frankly embarrassing.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 13, 2020, 06:46:22 AM
cwericb, yes, I deliberately keep calling you a liberal in the same light as you keep making the same generalization about me. Treat others how you want to be treated is one of the things I believe strongly in, so when someone does something to you...its fair game back at them.

And for the 1000th time, regarding covid, my comments and assessment are almost entirely focused on the investment parameters. I'm fine callously stating that. Rather than pretending to be concerned and using that as an outlet for Trump bashing.

Look around the US, especially in places where the government isn't forcing things on people...There's certainly a lot we do not know, but in terms of how behaviors have or haven't changed, again, I dont think it's what the media is making it out to be. This is a 100 year event, and the fact that we are where we currently are, is overall, probably on the better end of the spectrum of outcomes, especially compared to what some were saying in February and March. I think much of your paranoia falls into the category of what Bill Maher touched on a bit ago. "All I keep hearing is how many young people keep dying from COVID. I looked up the numbers and its about 700. Then I looked up the flu, and its typically about 3000 annually"...The media continues to drive peoples perceptions. You have 15-20% of the population gets the flu annually. There's 30M flu related hospital/urgent care visits as a result. So many of the "notions" presented on covid have been pure bs or straightforward scare tactics such as the "hospitals being over capacity any day now" in TX, AZ, FL? Here's an opinion piece by the ex lieutenant governor of NY that greatly highlights the narrative and game many are currently playing.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/12/covid-19-death-rates-reveal-ny-and-nj-are-states-that-failed-the-test/


Since you only want to look at the pandemic from the financial viewpoint, have you considered the potential impact these aftereffects may have on future healthcare in the country? Have you factored in the costs of losing people from the workforce? And it could be years before we understand the full impact of the virus. Remember the US has 4% of the world population and 20-25% of Covid-19 deaths. The abysmal job the country has done in handling this outbreak may well impact the country for years to come. Will history regard Covid-19 as "The American Virus"?

Yes, our healthcare system(like retail, and NYC) was already a disaster, this just accelerated what will be a transformation. Regarding all the other things you mentioned...yes. This is a reset, from which we could certainly trade lower, but will be the foundation for which the next cycle of economic growth emerges. How much room do you have to improve employment at 3%? Now, you have tons of data that has room to vastly improve, and an accommodative Fed.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 13, 2020, 07:05:42 AM
Regarding "how can you support this" and "varying levels of corruption"...how can anyone make this claim in an intellectually honest way, if they have a clear understanding of how politics works? Trump, for better or worse, is non apologetic and transparent about being what he is. There is literally no one in politics like him in that regard. In fact, politicians, more than any other profession, go out of their way to lie and manipulate their imagine and what comes to light about them. You really want to reward people with the benefit of the doubt for purposely hiding things from you? Lets say it comes out Bill Clinton was doing some of those dark Epstein things. In addition to all the other documented behavior, with Hillary also participating and/or enabling him. Is the "how could you support her" comment fair for 2016 voting? What about for anyone who voted for Clinton in the 90s? You're basically a chump if you believe the facade these politicians put out there for you.

My take is that its always been irrelevant. That people will largely vote a certain way regardless, and because of the system, if all else fails, pick the candidate that has the best chance of promoting policies that they agree with. Which is starting to become evident again, with all the Biden apologist and overlooking of Kamala Harris's behaviors. Its just very bizarre(and basically a liberal shame tactic) to say "how could you support this" in response to picking one of two choices available in an election. Especially when the alternative is so fundamentally extreme.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 07:17:07 AM
Quote
Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

Well what you "don't see" could put Rembrandt to shame. Just from today's news:

President Donald Trump proclaimed Wednesday that the U.S. Postal Service doesn't have the capacity to handle an unprecedented increase in mail-in ballots because it lacks funds that his administration is blocking, remarks that were immediately viewed as an open admission of election sabotage by a president who has previously called USPS "a joke."

So how about not engaging in election tampering and voter suppression.

The fact that you still support this guy is frankly embarrassing.

Who said I'm voting Trump?

His previous statement regarding USPS is correct. They are a joke.

Mass mail in voting will be rampant with election fraud. The lady who was responsible for setting up absentee ballots for many states said herself that a quick rollout nationwide mail in vote would be extremely susceptible to fraud. Look at the stimulus checks. 1.4B went to dead individuals. You think those same dead people won't be receiving ballots?

Hell, half the dems have spoke out against mail in voting numerous times in the past. Jerry lard ass Nadler was a key opponent.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 13, 2020, 07:22:26 AM
I still think you are making a serious mistake in not considering the fact that Covid-19 may have serious long lasting effects.

As far as Biden/Harris is concerned, liberal or conservative, I am afraid I am in the ‘anybody but Trump’ camp because anyone else would be better and ya gotta take what you get.

And now I’m going to the beach for a while.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 07:32:31 AM
I still think you are making a serious mistake in not considering the fact that Covid-19 may have serious long lasting effects.

As far as Biden/Harris is concerned, liberal or conservative, I am afraid I am in the ‘anybody but Trump’ camp because anyone else would be better and ya gotta take what you get.

And now I’m going to the beach for a while.

11T Green New deal alone would be worse than anything Trump has done. I just can't get behind the anyone but Trump argument. I think (maybe I'm wrong) the majority of people who say this are more fed up with his antics than anything else.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 13, 2020, 07:37:55 AM
Quote
Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

Well what you "don't see" could put Rembrandt to shame. Just from today's news:

President Donald Trump proclaimed Wednesday that the U.S. Postal Service doesn't have the capacity to handle an unprecedented increase in mail-in ballots because it lacks funds that his administration is blocking, remarks that were immediately viewed as an open admission of election sabotage by a president who has previously called USPS "a joke."

So how about not engaging in election tampering and voter suppression.

The fact that you still support this guy is frankly embarrassing.

Who said I'm voting Trump?

His previous statement regarding USPS is correct. They are a joke.

Mass mail in voting will be rampant with election fraud. The lady who was responsible for setting up absentee ballots for many states said herself that a quick rollout nationwide mail in vote would be extremely susceptible to fraud. Look at the stimulus checks. 1.4B went to dead individuals. You think those same dead people won't be receiving ballots?

Hell, half the dems have spoke out against mail in voting numerous times in the past. Jerry lard ass Nadler was a key opponent.

Get real:

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-voter-fraud-commission-20180803-story.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-vote-by-mail-explainer/explainer-fraud-is-rare-in-us-mail-in-voting-here-are-the-methods-that-prevent-it-idUSKBN2482SA
https://theconversation.com/research-on-voting-by-mail-says-its-safe-from-fraud-and-disease-141847
https://news.uchicago.edu/story/does-voting-mail-increase-risk-voter-fraud
https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth.pdf

Here, you can read the result of Trump's OWN COMMISSION to investigate voter fraud:
http://paceidocs.sosonline.org/

Hint: No evidence was found.
Double hint: The commission was debanded without even issuing a report. Because no evidence was found.
Triple hint: A lawsuit was needed to release the commission's research because they tried to bury it. Because no evidence was found.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 07:58:44 AM
Quote
Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

Well what you "don't see" could put Rembrandt to shame. Just from today's news:

President Donald Trump proclaimed Wednesday that the U.S. Postal Service doesn't have the capacity to handle an unprecedented increase in mail-in ballots because it lacks funds that his administration is blocking, remarks that were immediately viewed as an open admission of election sabotage by a president who has previously called USPS "a joke."

So how about not engaging in election tampering and voter suppression.

The fact that you still support this guy is frankly embarrassing.

Who said I'm voting Trump?

His previous statement regarding USPS is correct. They are a joke.

Mass mail in voting will be rampant with election fraud. The lady who was responsible for setting up absentee ballots for many states said herself that a quick rollout nationwide mail in vote would be extremely susceptible to fraud. Look at the stimulus checks. 1.4B went to dead individuals. You think those same dead people won't be receiving ballots?

Hell, half the dems have spoke out against mail in voting numerous times in the past. Jerry lard ass Nadler was a key opponent.

Get real:

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-voter-fraud-commission-20180803-story.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-vote-by-mail-explainer/explainer-fraud-is-rare-in-us-mail-in-voting-here-are-the-methods-that-prevent-it-idUSKBN2482SA
https://theconversation.com/research-on-voting-by-mail-says-its-safe-from-fraud-and-disease-141847
https://news.uchicago.edu/story/does-voting-mail-increase-risk-voter-fraud
https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth.pdf

Here, you can read the result of Trump's OWN COMMISSION to investigate voter fraud:
http://paceidocs.sosonline.org/

Hint: No evidence was found.
Double hint: The commission was debanded without even issuing a report. Because no evidence was found.
Triple hint: A lawsuit was needed to release the commission's research because they tried to bury it. Because no evidence was found.

Because a quick roll-out of a nationwide mail in voting system has been used before?

Let me take one from your bag. Apparently if there is any doubt about an action or a plan we should always err on the side of extreme caution right? But in this case...we shouldn't because your party supports it (currently).

If one was trying to commit voter fraud what types of standards/protocols would you roll out?

Well three things come to mind.

- No in person voting
- Lack of ID verification
- Quick roll out with no way to properly audit the system.

That is historically the most efficient way to rig and election. Un-vetted, unverified, ballot box stuffing.

How is Trump committing voter fraud by not having mail in voting? The option to go stand in line and vote is still there! People can go to parks, grocery stores, restaurants, you name it but all of a sudden they can't stand in line to vote? "Get real."
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 13, 2020, 08:13:28 AM
Quote
Let me take one from your bag. Apparently if there is any doubt about an action or a plan we should always err on the side of extreme caution right? But in this case...we shouldn't because your party supports it (currently).

Oh you sweet summer soul.

Go take a look at the aprox 10 states which have a history of mail in voting.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/21/for-many-americans-election-day-is-already-here/

From 2016:
In 2012, there were 12 states – including several that are battlegrounds this year – in which nontraditional voting methods accounted for more than half the total vote. In North Carolina, for instance, early and absentee voting yielded nearly 2.8 million of the state’s total 4.5 million votes. In Arizona, nearly two-thirds of the 2012 vote was cast absentee. In Florida, early and absentee balloting each accounted for well over a quarter of the total vote; only 44% of Florida’s voters cast their ballots in the traditional way. And in Oregon and Washington, elections already were conducted entirely by mail (they’re being joined by Colorado starting this year).

C'mon Castanza, find me the fraud.

The best you've got this is heritage foundation database:
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

Which has uncovered a whopping 1,290 "Proven instances of voter fraud" in totality going back to 1982! over all election cycles (district, city, state, federal, etc.). Even being GENEROUS and assuming each instance encompasses 30 total votes (Quadruple hint: the majority of these 1,290 cases account for ONE vote). That's a total of, say, 35,000 votes.

2016 presidential election alone accounted for about 129MM votes. So 0.0027%

And this is being incredibly generous to you. A small portion of those 1,290 instances were related to the 2016 election. And an even smaller portion were related to mail-in voter fraud.

The complete lack of evidence here is in direct refutation to your nonsense claim "Mass mail in voting will be rampant with election fraud"

I should go back to posting nonsense biblical quotes because evidence seems to be a foreign concept and some folks apparently will believe anything that the god-head says.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Jurgis on August 13, 2020, 08:19:36 AM
"Mass mail in voting will be rampant with election fraud"

Donnie Trumpf said so. It must be tlue!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 13, 2020, 08:24:04 AM
Btw, what has he done in response to the Russian-Taliban bounty deal? Genuinely wondering because from what I've seen there has been zero response and also zero condemnation. For the party that respects the troops, the GOP silence has been deafening. And these people are the same ones who are outraged at kneeling during the national anthem because it is supposedly disrespectful to the military.

Didn't you hear that Russian-Taliban bounty deal is fake news? Comrade Trump said so.

Comrade Trump says fake news and doesn’t feel like reading such intel briefings, but we need to concern ourselves with more pressing issues like Kamala’s stance on marijuana in the 90s or her boyfriends in the past...reminds me of “but but her emails!” or “his birth certificate!” Or “benghazi!!!”

Deflect from the real disaster and employ false equivalence fallacy nonstop !
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 08:26:58 AM
Quote
Let me take one from your bag. Apparently if there is any doubt about an action or a plan we should always err on the side of extreme caution right? But in this case...we shouldn't because your party supports it (currently).

Oh you sweet summer soul.

Go take a look at the aprox 10 states which have a history of mail in voting.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/21/for-many-americans-election-day-is-already-here/

From 2016:
In 2012, there were 12 states – including several that are battlegrounds this year – in which nontraditional voting methods accounted for more than half the total vote. In North Carolina, for instance, early and absentee voting yielded nearly 2.8 million of the state’s total 4.5 million votes. In Arizona, nearly two-thirds of the 2012 vote was cast absentee. In Florida, early and absentee balloting each accounted for well over a quarter of the total vote; only 44% of Florida’s voters cast their ballots in the traditional way. And in Oregon and Washington, elections already were conducted entirely by mail (they’re being joined by Colorado starting this year).

C'mon Castanza, find me the fraud.

The best you've got this is heritage foundation database:
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

Which has uncovered a whopping 1,290 "Proven instances of voter fraud" in totality going back to 1982! over all election cycles (district, city, state, federal, etc.). Even being GENEROUS and assuming each instance encompasses 30 total votes (Quadruple hint: the majority of these 1,290 cases account for ONE vote). That's a total of, say, 35,000 votes.

2016 presidential election alone accounted for about 129MM votes. So 0.0027%

And this is being incredibly generous to you. A small portion of those 1,290 instances were related to the 2016 election. And an even smaller portion were related to mail-in voter fraud.

The complete lack of evidence here is in direct refutation to your nonsense claim "Mass mail in voting will be rampant with election fraud"

I should go back to posting nonsense biblical quotes because evidence seems to be a foreign concept and some folks apparently will believe anything that the god-head says.

Yet you were bitching and moaning earlier about 5k Native Americans who didn't get their ID to vote and 300 individuals taken off the voter roll.

Your argument is in hindsight...The systems you talk about had long runways to get right. The latest evidence of inefficiency is on my side. Like I said, look at the stimulus check fraud...

Quick government rolled out systems are shit. Plain and simple.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: JSArbitrage on August 13, 2020, 08:28:26 AM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

I'll tell you what we get and hopefully this will get you to pull your head out of your ass.  I live in rural Texas about 1.5 hours away from a large metropolitan area.  I, and everyone of my neighbors, rely heavily on the Post Office.  I am talking SS checks, medication, etc.  I am in good health so not a huge deal for me personally but many of my neighbors are not in good health.  Many of my neighbors rely on SS and other government programs for assistance.   It's as close to the most important service that is provided to rural Americans such as myself and my neighbors. 

And Trump has appointed an individual with substantial economic interests in competitors to the USPS and has intentionally sabotaged the mail service in rural America so he can call into question mail-in voting.   Having a President intentionally ruin a life-supporting service to rural Americans so he can make it harder to vote against him in an election is evil.  Plain fucking evil.

I am frankly tired of the both sides bullshit.  Biden nor Harris would never do this to rural Americans and we're not even blue voters.  No President in my lifetime would have done this.  Only Trump. 

He is a once-in-a-generation evil President (by American standards) and, deep down, everyone fucking knows it.  It's now a matter of whether MAGA kool-aid drinkers can find the courage to admit they were wrong or not.   Any Republican (Rubio, Cruz, Romney, etc.) would be 100x better than Trump.  They maybe partisans but I don't believe they are evil.  There is nothing Trump won't do or any group he won't hurt to feed his own ego.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 08:39:35 AM
"Mass mail in voting will be rampant with election fraud"

Donnie Trumpf said so. It must be tlue!

My opinion isn't because of what Trump said. It's common sense. This type of fraud is rampant at the local level election with mail in voting. Do you really believe that at a massive scale there will be less fraud and more visibility?

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 08:49:13 AM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

I'll tell you what we get and hopefully this will get you to pull your head out of your ass.  I live in rural Texas about 1.5 hours away from a large metropolitan area.  I, and everyone of my neighbors, rely heavily on the Post Office.  I am talking SS checks, medication, etc.  I am in good health so not a huge deal for me personally but many of my neighbors are not in good health.  Many of my neighbors rely on SS and other government programs for assistance.   It's as close to the most important service that is provided to rural Americans such as myself and my neighbors. 

And Trump has appointed an individual with substantial economic interests in competitors to the USPS and has intentionally sabotaged the mail service in rural America so he can call into question mail-in voting.   Having a President intentionally ruin a life-supporting service to rural Americans so he can make it harder to vote against him in an election is evil.  Plain fucking evil.

I am frankly tired of the both sides bullshit.  Biden nor Harris would never do this to rural Americans and we're not even blue voters.  No President in my lifetime would have done this.  Only Trump. 

He is a once-in-a-generation evil President (by American standards) and, deep down, everyone fucking knows it.  It's now a matter of whether MAGA kool-aid drinkers can find the courage to admit they were wrong or not.     They maybe partisans but I don't believe they are evil.  There is nothing Trump won't do or any group he won't hurt to feed his own ego.

You know who else delivers a shit ton of food stamps, government documents, welfare checks and medications and medical devices daily all over the country to rural locations?
UPS and FedEx...

"Any Republican (Rubio, Cruz, Romney, etc.) would be 100x better than Trump." I agree
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 13, 2020, 08:57:38 AM
Quote
Yet you were bitching and moaning earlier about 5k Native Americans who didn't get their ID to vote and 300 individuals taken off the voter roll.

Your argument is in hindsight...The systems you talk about had long runways to get right. The latest evidence of inefficiency is on my side. Like I said, look at the stimulus check fraud...

Quick government rolled out systems are shit. Plain and simple.

Quick rolled out system? Do you even know what you're talking about? These are state systems which rely on USPS, which Trump is trying to cripple.

Already 76% of Americans are able to vote by mail. "Quick rolled out system". What a joke.

If you're arguing 1,290 instances of voter fraud over 40 years is "too much" to expand mail-in voting, you've betrayed yourself.

Go ahead and ally yourself with voter tampering and voter suppression. How "American".
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 13, 2020, 08:59:18 AM

Quick government rolled out systems are shit. Plain and simple.


Ding, ding, ding. Basically anything the government rolls out, or is responsible for, is garbage, especially compared to private sector. I love the USPS, but the differences between it and UPS/FDX is insane. The government can almost always be counted on to overspend and underperform. Which is why its amazing that people want to make it bigger. Which is what voting for the Biden/Harris ticket will do. They can whine and complain all they want, and talk about how they'd take anyone but Trump, but the truth is, they had their chance and chose not to. Its not about "poor Mitt Romney", its about "you made your bed now lay in it". You cant say "anyone but him" when you had that opportunity and chose not to take it. You get what you deserve, the consequences of your actions. Next time, use your brain.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 13, 2020, 09:03:43 AM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

I'll tell you what we get and hopefully this will get you to pull your head out of your ass.  I live in rural Texas about 1.5 hours away from a large metropolitan area.  I, and everyone of my neighbors, rely heavily on the Post Office.  I am talking SS checks, medication, etc.  I am in good health so not a huge deal for me personally but many of my neighbors are not in good health.  Many of my neighbors rely on SS and other government programs for assistance.   It's as close to the most important service that is provided to rural Americans such as myself and my neighbors. 

And Trump has appointed an individual with substantial economic interests in competitors to the USPS and has intentionally sabotaged the mail service in rural America so he can call into question mail-in voting.   Having a President intentionally ruin a life-supporting service to rural Americans so he can make it harder to vote against him in an election is evil.  Plain fucking evil.

I am frankly tired of the both sides bullshit.  Biden nor Harris would never do this to rural Americans and we're not even blue voters.  No President in my lifetime would have done this.  Only Trump. 

He is a once-in-a-generation evil President (by American standards) and, deep down, everyone fucking knows it.  It's now a matter of whether MAGA kool-aid drinkers can find the courage to admit they were wrong or not.   Any Republican (Rubio, Cruz, Romney, etc.) would be 100x better than Trump.  They maybe partisans but I don't believe they are evil.  There is nothing Trump won't do or any group he won't hurt to feed his own ego.

But the “both sides bullshit” false equivalence is his supporters’ currency!

Like Hugo Chavez or Mussolini, you just accuse everyone of being as corrupt as you and they ignore your own glaring flaws!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Parsad on August 13, 2020, 09:40:09 AM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

I'll tell you what we get and hopefully this will get you to pull your head out of your ass.  I live in rural Texas about 1.5 hours away from a large metropolitan area.  I, and everyone of my neighbors, rely heavily on the Post Office.  I am talking SS checks, medication, etc.  I am in good health so not a huge deal for me personally but many of my neighbors are not in good health.  Many of my neighbors rely on SS and other government programs for assistance.   It's as close to the most important service that is provided to rural Americans such as myself and my neighbors. 

And Trump has appointed an individual with substantial economic interests in competitors to the USPS and has intentionally sabotaged the mail service in rural America so he can call into question mail-in voting.   Having a President intentionally ruin a life-supporting service to rural Americans so he can make it harder to vote against him in an election is evil.  Plain fucking evil.

I am frankly tired of the both sides bullshit.  Biden nor Harris would never do this to rural Americans and we're not even blue voters.  No President in my lifetime would have done this.  Only Trump. 

He is a once-in-a-generation evil President (by American standards) and, deep down, everyone fucking knows it.  It's now a matter of whether MAGA kool-aid drinkers can find the courage to admit they were wrong or not.   Any Republican (Rubio, Cruz, Romney, etc.) would be 100x better than Trump.  They maybe partisans but I don't believe they are evil.  There is nothing Trump won't do or any group he won't hurt to feed his own ego.

But the “both sides bullshit” false equivalence is his supporters’ currency!

Like Hugo Chavez or Mussolini, you just accuse everyone of being as corrupt as you and they ignore your own glaring flaws!

But they often are.  Look at the hypocrisy of Trudeau here in Canada...blackface...not once, not twice...at least three times!  Then his family reaps tons of money from non-profit speaking engagements, and that non-profit somehow gets a $900M government pandemic-relief contract.  The company his Chief Deputy's husband works for was also given a huge contract.  Yeah, he has great hair, looks like a boy-band star, and women all over the world swoon for him, but he plays dirty for a Canadian Prime Minister and is terrible at maintaining arms length transactions.   Trump just does it in front of everyone because he's done it all his life and he can sell water to a man drowning in a lake...and his customers, the MAGA supporters, eat it up and want to be him.  So the both sides bullshit may be a false equivalence, but the truth is politicians only succeed if they play those same games. 

Look at Biden's son...crack-addict, cheating, moron...nearly as stupid as Trump, with no drive, and slept with his sister-in-law...uses Daddy's connections to get himself a high-profile, high-paying position.  Literally the "Fredo" of the family!  And Biden goes on defending him, protecting him.  When push comes to shove...many politicians are the same, and that's not a false equivalence.  Cheers! 
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 09:42:59 AM
Quote
Yet you were bitching and moaning earlier about 5k Native Americans who didn't get their ID to vote and 300 individuals taken off the voter roll.

Your argument is in hindsight...The systems you talk about had long runways to get right. The latest evidence of inefficiency is on my side. Like I said, look at the stimulus check fraud...

Quick government rolled out systems are shit. Plain and simple.

Quick rolled out system? Do you even know what you're talking about? These are state systems which rely on USPS, which Trump is trying to cripple.

Already 76% of Americans are able to vote by mail. "Quick rolled out system". What a joke.

If you're arguing 1,290 instances of voter fraud over 40 years is "too much" to expand mail-in voting, you've betrayed yourself.

Go ahead and ally yourself with voter tampering and voter suppression. How "American".

You keep quoting those numbers. Yet Pew research found in 2012 that 24 million individuals registered to vote were invalid.

The examination of the nation's voter rolls, commissioned by Pew and undertaken by RTI International, a nonprofit, nonpartisan research institute, also finds that:

At least 51 million eligible citizens remain unregistered—more than 24 percent of the eligible population.
Nearly 2 million deceased individuals are listed as voters.
Approximately 2.75 million people have registrations in more than one state.
About 12 million records have incorrect addresses, meaning either the voters moved, or errors in the information make it unlikely any mailings can reach them.

And you can say this is stale but Ohio used this information in 2018 (upheld by Supreme Court) to go over their voter rolls.

I moved from Ohio a little over a year ago. I guarantee you that I will get an Ohio ballot even though I'm registered in PA. Ballot harvesting is also a real issue. I don't trust either party with this. In very first major election in California after allowing vote harvesting the democrats won every single district that has been historically republican. How many big cities already allow illegal immigrants to vote in local elections? Chicago is one. Do you honestly believe that wont carry over to the federal election?

Mail in voting took Washington state 5 years to roll out properly. The most recent example of a state changing to mail in voting took 8 months. But all of a sudden we can do it with 100% efficiency at the federal level? That's a pipe dream...

I want fair elections either way. There shouldn't be doubt. I think both parties would be guilty of voter fraud if we go to mass mail in voting. You guys keep yelling at me "trump this trump that." My opinion has nothing to do with Trump.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 13, 2020, 09:49:29 AM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

I'll tell you what we get and hopefully this will get you to pull your head out of your ass.  I live in rural Texas about 1.5 hours away from a large metropolitan area.  I, and everyone of my neighbors, rely heavily on the Post Office.  I am talking SS checks, medication, etc.  I am in good health so not a huge deal for me personally but many of my neighbors are not in good health.  Many of my neighbors rely on SS and other government programs for assistance.   It's as close to the most important service that is provided to rural Americans such as myself and my neighbors. 

And Trump has appointed an individual with substantial economic interests in competitors to the USPS and has intentionally sabotaged the mail service in rural America so he can call into question mail-in voting.   Having a President intentionally ruin a life-supporting service to rural Americans so he can make it harder to vote against him in an election is evil.  Plain fucking evil.

I am frankly tired of the both sides bullshit.  Biden nor Harris would never do this to rural Americans and we're not even blue voters.  No President in my lifetime would have done this.  Only Trump. 

He is a once-in-a-generation evil President (by American standards) and, deep down, everyone fucking knows it.  It's now a matter of whether MAGA kool-aid drinkers can find the courage to admit they were wrong or not.   Any Republican (Rubio, Cruz, Romney, etc.) would be 100x better than Trump.  They maybe partisans but I don't believe they are evil.  There is nothing Trump won't do or any group he won't hurt to feed his own ego.

But the “both sides bullshit” false equivalence is his supporters’ currency!

Like Hugo Chavez or Mussolini, you just accuse everyone of being as corrupt as you and they ignore your own glaring flaws!

But they often are.  Look at the hypocrisy of Trudeau here in Canada...blackface...not once, not twice...at least three times!  Then his family reaps tons of money from non-profit speaking engagements, and that non-profit somehow gets a $900M government pandemic-relief contract.  The company his Chief Deputy's husband works for was also given a huge contract.  Yeah, he has great hair, looks like a boy-band star, and women all over the world swoon for him, but he plays dirty for a Canadian Prime Minister and is terrible at maintaining arms length transactions.   Trump just does it in front of everyone because he's done it all his life and he can sell water to a man drowning in a lake...and his customers, the MAGA supporters, eat it up and want to be him.  So the both sides bullshit may be a false equivalence, but the truth is politicians only succeed if they play those same games. 

Look at Biden's son...crack-addict, cheating, moron...nearly as stupid as Trump, with no drive, and slept with his sister-in-law...uses Daddy's connections to get himself a high-profile, high-paying position.  Literally the "Fredo" of the family!  And Biden goes on defending him, protecting him.  When push comes to shove...many politicians are the same, and that's not a false equivalence.  Cheers!

Its amazing. As liberal as you may be, you certainly dont miss the bigger picture here that most of them(and heck, even some so called "conservatives") do. The only modus operandi of any use with any politician, is to assume the worst. The unfortunate reality is that you can be as offended as you want by all this stuff, but what are your choices, especially in America where its only 2 choices...its kind of like SBC. No one likes it, the shareholders kind of suffer, but you just have to overlook it simply because everyone(in tech) does it.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 13, 2020, 10:13:57 AM
Incredible.

So, lacking evidence of fraud regarding mail-in voting, now you want to shift the conversation to voter registration.

Well I'll hold you to mail-in voting.

We have years of mail-in voting history in a majorityof the US states. There has been MINIMAL, NEGLIGIBLE, NEAR-ZERO levels of fraud associated with this process.

You have zero leg to stand on.

Quote
Mail in voting took Washington state 5 years to roll out properly. The most recent example of a state changing to mail in voting took 8 months. But all of a sudden we can do it with 100% efficiency at the federal level? That's a pipe dream...

At the federal level?

Trump is defunding the USPS to cripple STATE-LEVEL mail-in processes.

Quote
I want fair elections either way. There shouldn't be doubt.
At least you have a sense of humor!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Parsad on August 13, 2020, 10:56:06 AM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

I'll tell you what we get and hopefully this will get you to pull your head out of your ass.  I live in rural Texas about 1.5 hours away from a large metropolitan area.  I, and everyone of my neighbors, rely heavily on the Post Office.  I am talking SS checks, medication, etc.  I am in good health so not a huge deal for me personally but many of my neighbors are not in good health.  Many of my neighbors rely on SS and other government programs for assistance.   It's as close to the most important service that is provided to rural Americans such as myself and my neighbors. 

And Trump has appointed an individual with substantial economic interests in competitors to the USPS and has intentionally sabotaged the mail service in rural America so he can call into question mail-in voting.   Having a President intentionally ruin a life-supporting service to rural Americans so he can make it harder to vote against him in an election is evil.  Plain fucking evil.

I am frankly tired of the both sides bullshit.  Biden nor Harris would never do this to rural Americans and we're not even blue voters.  No President in my lifetime would have done this.  Only Trump. 

He is a once-in-a-generation evil President (by American standards) and, deep down, everyone fucking knows it.  It's now a matter of whether MAGA kool-aid drinkers can find the courage to admit they were wrong or not.   Any Republican (Rubio, Cruz, Romney, etc.) would be 100x better than Trump.  They maybe partisans but I don't believe they are evil.  There is nothing Trump won't do or any group he won't hurt to feed his own ego.

But the “both sides bullshit” false equivalence is his supporters’ currency!

Like Hugo Chavez or Mussolini, you just accuse everyone of being as corrupt as you and they ignore your own glaring flaws!

But they often are.  Look at the hypocrisy of Trudeau here in Canada...blackface...not once, not twice...at least three times!  Then his family reaps tons of money from non-profit speaking engagements, and that non-profit somehow gets a $900M government pandemic-relief contract.  The company his Chief Deputy's husband works for was also given a huge contract.  Yeah, he has great hair, looks like a boy-band star, and women all over the world swoon for him, but he plays dirty for a Canadian Prime Minister and is terrible at maintaining arms length transactions.   Trump just does it in front of everyone because he's done it all his life and he can sell water to a man drowning in a lake...and his customers, the MAGA supporters, eat it up and want to be him.  So the both sides bullshit may be a false equivalence, but the truth is politicians only succeed if they play those same games. 

Look at Biden's son...crack-addict, cheating, moron...nearly as stupid as Trump, with no drive, and slept with his sister-in-law...uses Daddy's connections to get himself a high-profile, high-paying position.  Literally the "Fredo" of the family!  And Biden goes on defending him, protecting him.  When push comes to shove...many politicians are the same, and that's not a false equivalence.  Cheers!

Its amazing. As liberal as you may be, you certainly dont miss the bigger picture here that most of them(and heck, even some so called "conservatives") do. The only modus operandi of any use with any politician, is to assume the worst. The unfortunate reality is that you can be as offended as you want by all this stuff, but what are your choices, especially in America where its only 2 choices...its kind of like SBC. No one likes it, the shareholders kind of suffer, but you just have to overlook it simply because everyone(in tech) does it.

The problem is that the people that need to run and are the best suited to lead, don't because they don't want to play the game or need the intense scrutiny.  So it's the names (Trump, Trudeau, Bush, Gandhi, Kennedy, Clinton, etc) that run, get the funding, and play the game. 

Really Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton are the best choices Democrats could muster in 8 years? 

Biden will win because too many people, including moderate Republicans and women, are sick of him.  But Biden is only a moderately better choice...yeah, he'll be better on the world stage and during a pandemic, but will he take on China or fix Obamacare?  Better statesman probably...better leader...moderately.   

Cheers!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: JSArbitrage on August 13, 2020, 11:25:59 AM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

I'll tell you what we get and hopefully this will get you to pull your head out of your ass.  I live in rural Texas about 1.5 hours away from a large metropolitan area.  I, and everyone of my neighbors, rely heavily on the Post Office.  I am talking SS checks, medication, etc.  I am in good health so not a huge deal for me personally but many of my neighbors are not in good health.  Many of my neighbors rely on SS and other government programs for assistance.   It's as close to the most important service that is provided to rural Americans such as myself and my neighbors. 

And Trump has appointed an individual with substantial economic interests in competitors to the USPS and has intentionally sabotaged the mail service in rural America so he can call into question mail-in voting.   Having a President intentionally ruin a life-supporting service to rural Americans so he can make it harder to vote against him in an election is evil.  Plain fucking evil.

I am frankly tired of the both sides bullshit.  Biden nor Harris would never do this to rural Americans and we're not even blue voters.  No President in my lifetime would have done this.  Only Trump. 

He is a once-in-a-generation evil President (by American standards) and, deep down, everyone fucking knows it.  It's now a matter of whether MAGA kool-aid drinkers can find the courage to admit they were wrong or not.     They maybe partisans but I don't believe they are evil.  There is nothing Trump won't do or any group he won't hurt to feed his own ego.

You know who else delivers a shit ton of food stamps, government documents, welfare checks and medications and medical devices daily all over the country to rural locations?
UPS and FedEx...

"Any Republican (Rubio, Cruz, Romney, etc.) would be 100x better than Trump." I agree

The UPS/FedEx view is not entirely true nor is that the point.  UPS/Fedex hand-off to USPS for the last mile of delivery in rural areas because it's a money-losing leg.  That's actually the point of USPS - to make sure Americans of any location can get mail for a reasonable price.  An America where people in rural Texas would have to $15 for single-weight loads to their remote location so UPS/Fedex could generate a profit on that leg would be devastating.  Imagine trying to get insulin in remote areas of Alaska from Fedex.

But that's not the point.  The point is: Trump isn't making the changes at USPS for purposes other than this election.  This is not a long-running program since he took over in 2016.   He is shutting off life support to Americans to tip the election in his favor. 

And to the others in this thread - shame on you.  This is not the same as Clinton being a womanizing slug, Trudeau being a trust-fund bro, Hunter Biden/GWB leveraging their last names or whatever other silly analogy.  This is what is wrong with the hyper-partisan era we are in: complete moral breakdown in an attempt to defend your own tribe.   This is why Kushner can get away with keeping federal aid from NY in the middle of a pandemic because they didn't vote for Trump (per recent articles.)

Powerful people have always been opportunistic or had personal moral failings (not just politicians) but that's different than gross indifference to human life in attainment of power and the support of such acts so your side can win the game.  Vastly, vastly different.  And if you support these kinds of actions from Trump, you are lost.

Clinton/GWB/Obama would never have done these things.  Never.  Even Bush's failure in Katrina was universally seen as incompetence and mismanagement.  Only conspiracy-theorists (like Kanye West) saw this as Bush's indifference to black people. 

But Trump actually comes out and says these things.  There is no uncertainty around his intent.  He tweets "this is a Muslim ban", says immigrants from Mexico are rapists and drug dealers with "some" maybe being good people, saying good people on both sides of a white supremacy rally, says if we allow mail-in voting he'll lose so he's going to with hold funding, etc.  There are no excuses for people anymore.  None. zero.  Bothsidism is dead.  Nothing left but support for a evil human being
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 13, 2020, 11:47:50 AM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

I'll tell you what we get and hopefully this will get you to pull your head out of your ass.  I live in rural Texas about 1.5 hours away from a large metropolitan area.  I, and everyone of my neighbors, rely heavily on the Post Office.  I am talking SS checks, medication, etc.  I am in good health so not a huge deal for me personally but many of my neighbors are not in good health.  Many of my neighbors rely on SS and other government programs for assistance.   It's as close to the most important service that is provided to rural Americans such as myself and my neighbors. 

And Trump has appointed an individual with substantial economic interests in competitors to the USPS and has intentionally sabotaged the mail service in rural America so he can call into question mail-in voting.   Having a President intentionally ruin a life-supporting service to rural Americans so he can make it harder to vote against him in an election is evil.  Plain fucking evil.

I am frankly tired of the both sides bullshit.  Biden nor Harris would never do this to rural Americans and we're not even blue voters.  No President in my lifetime would have done this.  Only Trump. 

He is a once-in-a-generation evil President (by American standards) and, deep down, everyone fucking knows it.  It's now a matter of whether MAGA kool-aid drinkers can find the courage to admit they were wrong or not.     They maybe partisans but I don't believe they are evil.  There is nothing Trump won't do or any group he won't hurt to feed his own ego.

You know who else delivers a shit ton of food stamps, government documents, welfare checks and medications and medical devices daily all over the country to rural locations?
UPS and FedEx...

"Any Republican (Rubio, Cruz, Romney, etc.) would be 100x better than Trump." I agree

1. FedEx and UPS don't really do rural and don't do it will. JSArbitrage covered this really well above.

2. It's a really dumb comment. Let's see I have a program that I am happy with and pay with my tax dollars and then you have an administration that comes in and says I'll ruin that for you for kicks (and with some questionable constitutional implications sprinkled on top). You go pay FedEx. And USPS is REALLY popular. It's like Beyonce with puppie... riding a unicorn level popular.

3. This ties in with point 2 above but it is a perfect reason why the Trump should be voted out. The purpose of the executive branch (and the President as its head) is to tun the government. Actively trying to make services worse as clear a fire-able offence as possible. Imagine having a manager at a company saying: "Not only am I incompetent, I am also actively sabotaging the company". How is that not an insta-fire in any case?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 11:57:32 AM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

I'll tell you what we get and hopefully this will get you to pull your head out of your ass.  I live in rural Texas about 1.5 hours away from a large metropolitan area.  I, and everyone of my neighbors, rely heavily on the Post Office.  I am talking SS checks, medication, etc.  I am in good health so not a huge deal for me personally but many of my neighbors are not in good health.  Many of my neighbors rely on SS and other government programs for assistance.   It's as close to the most important service that is provided to rural Americans such as myself and my neighbors. 

And Trump has appointed an individual with substantial economic interests in competitors to the USPS and has intentionally sabotaged the mail service in rural America so he can call into question mail-in voting.   Having a President intentionally ruin a life-supporting service to rural Americans so he can make it harder to vote against him in an election is evil.  Plain fucking evil.

I am frankly tired of the both sides bullshit.  Biden nor Harris would never do this to rural Americans and we're not even blue voters.  No President in my lifetime would have done this.  Only Trump. 

He is a once-in-a-generation evil President (by American standards) and, deep down, everyone fucking knows it.  It's now a matter of whether MAGA kool-aid drinkers can find the courage to admit they were wrong or not.     They maybe partisans but I don't believe they are evil.  There is nothing Trump won't do or any group he won't hurt to feed his own ego.

You know who else delivers a shit ton of food stamps, government documents, welfare checks and medications and medical devices daily all over the country to rural locations?
UPS and FedEx...

"Any Republican (Rubio, Cruz, Romney, etc.) would be 100x better than Trump." I agree

The UPS/FedEx view is not entirely true nor is that the point.  UPS/Fedex hand-off to USPS for the last mile of delivery in rural areas because it's a money-losing leg.  That's actually the point of USPS - to make sure Americans of any location can get mail for a reasonable price.  An America where people in rural Texas would have to $15 for single-weight loads to their remote location so UPS/Fedex could generate a profit on that leg would be devastating.  Imagine trying to get insulin in remote areas of Alaska from Fedex.

But that's not the point.  The point is: Trump isn't making the changes at USPS for purposes other than this election.  This is not a long-running program since he took over in 2016.   He is shutting off life support to Americans to tip the election in his favor. 

And to the others in this thread - shame on you.  This is not the same as Clinton being a womanizing slug, Trudeau being a trust-fund bro, Hunter Biden/GWB leveraging their last names or whatever other silly analogy.  This is what is wrong with the hyper-partisan era we are in: complete moral breakdown in an attempt to defend your own tribe.   This is why Kushner can get away with keeping federal aid from NY in the middle of a pandemic because they didn't vote for Trump (per recent articles.)

Powerful people have always been opportunistic or had personal moral failings (not just politicians) but that's different than gross indifference to human life in attainment of power and the support of such acts so your side can win the game.  Vastly, vastly different.  And if you support these kinds of actions from Trump, you are lost.

Clinton/GWB/Obama would never have done these things.  Never.  Even Bush's failure in Katrina was universally seen as incompetence and mismanagement.  Only conspiracy-theorists (like Kanye West) saw this as Bush's indifference to black people. 

But Trump actually comes out and says these things.  There is no uncertainty around his intent.  He tweets "this is a Muslim ban", says immigrants from Mexico are rapists and drug dealers with "some" maybe being good people, saying good people on both sides of a white supremacy rally, says if we allow mail-in voting he'll lose so he's going to with hold funding, etc.  There are no excuses for people anymore.  None. zero.  Bothsidism is dead.  Nothing left but support for a evil human being

I worked in the industry for a good while. I have plenty of experience working with USPS and there is a hell of a lot of bloat that can be cut out. UPS and FedEx use USPS for last mile delivery simply because they exist and they can exploit them. 90% of what USPS does could be accomplished through email. We don't need a post office in every town as traveling has become much easier. Hell the running joke in the industry was how laughable it was that almost every governmental building used almost exclusively UPS and FedEX!

UPS along with innovative ideas like Uber and Lyft could easily develop their own private post office like service. Amazon continues to surprise me with their efficiency and quick roll out of services. I'm sorry but it's simply antiquated to think we need a post office in every single town across America much like we don't need a Wells Fargo on every corner. 

There is also a serious issue with the timeliness of the mail in votes. A lot of the tests took over a week for all the votes to show up with 3% missing indefinitely. Almost 20 states don't allow individuals to request a ballot > 1 week before the election.

If we do a mail in vote there will be recount after recount after recount.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 11:59:24 AM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

I'll tell you what we get and hopefully this will get you to pull your head out of your ass.  I live in rural Texas about 1.5 hours away from a large metropolitan area.  I, and everyone of my neighbors, rely heavily on the Post Office.  I am talking SS checks, medication, etc.  I am in good health so not a huge deal for me personally but many of my neighbors are not in good health.  Many of my neighbors rely on SS and other government programs for assistance.   It's as close to the most important service that is provided to rural Americans such as myself and my neighbors. 

And Trump has appointed an individual with substantial economic interests in competitors to the USPS and has intentionally sabotaged the mail service in rural America so he can call into question mail-in voting.   Having a President intentionally ruin a life-supporting service to rural Americans so he can make it harder to vote against him in an election is evil.  Plain fucking evil.

I am frankly tired of the both sides bullshit.  Biden nor Harris would never do this to rural Americans and we're not even blue voters.  No President in my lifetime would have done this.  Only Trump. 

He is a once-in-a-generation evil President (by American standards) and, deep down, everyone fucking knows it.  It's now a matter of whether MAGA kool-aid drinkers can find the courage to admit they were wrong or not.     They maybe partisans but I don't believe they are evil.  There is nothing Trump won't do or any group he won't hurt to feed his own ego.

You know who else delivers a shit ton of food stamps, government documents, welfare checks and medications and medical devices daily all over the country to rural locations?
UPS and FedEx...

"Any Republican (Rubio, Cruz, Romney, etc.) would be 100x better than Trump." I agree
1. FedEx and UPS don't really do rural and don't do it will. JSArbitrage covered this really well above.
False
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 13, 2020, 12:20:24 PM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

This is easy, it's inversion. I believe the country is better off without a narcissisitic sociopath in charge, and who doesn't threaten the very fundamentals of Democracy with both his words and his actions. On top of that, being an idiot makes things worse. Ironically, mocking and trying to cover up a pandemic turned out to be worse for his re-election chances than had he dealt with it head on.

So I invert and ask how to best avoid those qualities in a person and Biden/Harris happens to be the best choice. It could have been Harris/Buttigieg, Buttigieg/Klobuchar, Romney/Ryan, or almost any combination of anyone who has ran for President in the last 20 years.

Yes the Green New Deal is extreme. I doubt it makes it into law in its current form. I think Biden and Harris are more moderate than the extremists who suggested the deal in the first place. People make all sorts of campaign promises that turn out to be BS. Remember when Trump promised to release his tax return once the routine audit was finished?

Still, I'll take the miniscule risk of a Green New Deal instead of having a divisive maniac who is a real immediate threat to this country and the world.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 12:46:08 PM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

This is easy, it's inversion. I believe the country is better off without a narcissisitic sociopath in charge, and who doesn't threaten the very fundamentals of Democracy with both his words and his actions. On top of that, being an idiot makes things worse. Ironically, mocking and trying to cover up a pandemic turned out to be worse for his re-election chances than had he dealt with it head on.

So I invert and ask how to best avoid those qualities in a person and Biden/Harris happens to be the best choice. It could have been Harris/Buttigieg, Buttigieg/Klobuchar, Romney/Ryan, or almost any combination of anyone who has ran for President in the last 20 years.

Yes the Green New Deal is extreme. I doubt it makes it into law in its current form. I think Biden and Harris are more moderate than the extremists who suggested the deal in the first place. Still I'll take that risk over having a divisive maniac who is a real immediate threat to this country and the world.

Harris was literally ranked the furthest left person in the Senate.

I think moral busy bodies are worse. Biden and Harris approach policy with a "they know what's best for you" stance. That is extremely un-American.

It takes two sides to be divisive. I agree that Trump is not the best and does little to ease tension. But you cannot ignore the pandering and nonsense from the democratic party to cause divisiveness. Look around, every city across the country is burning because democratic politicians chose to be divisive. That is a much bigger factor in the next election that you think.

Strip away the nothing burgers from MSM and all the Obama era programs attributed to him an Trump looks much better than Biden/Harris. Biden alone has 40+ years of terrible policies in government. Harris is a joke and a sham/con-artist that has proven to say just about anything if it helps her. Trump lacks the extreme policies that Biden and Harris hold.  I think that makes him a better candidate. Will I vote for him? Probably not.

Real risk of Biden/Harris

- Ban on Fracking
- Substantial raise in taxes (corporate and personal) not to mention capital gains taxes
- Increased welfare state
- New social programs (free college) that will never go away and continue to bloat the subsidy system. Potentially something with housing and landlords.
- Weak foreign policy. I think all candidates are relatively even when it comes to this. But I think Trump would be more willing to be tough on China and Russia if pressured into it.
- More money thrown at the failing public school systems and less choice.
- I think there will be a substantial attempt to change/add/remove amendments in the Constitution.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 13, 2020, 12:46:26 PM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

This is easy, it's inversion. I believe the country is better off without a narcissisitic sociopath in charge, and who doesn't threaten the very fundamentals of Democracy with both his words and his actions. On top of that, being an idiot makes things worse. Ironically, mocking and trying to cover up a pandemic turned out to be worse for his re-election chances than had he dealt with it head on.

So I invert and ask how to best avoid those qualities in a person and Biden/Harris happens to be the best choice. It could have been Harris/Buttigieg, Buttigieg/Klobuchar, Romney/Ryan, or almost any combination of anyone who has ran for President in the last 20 years.

Yes the Green New Deal is extreme. I doubt it makes it into law in its current form. I think Biden and Harris are more moderate than the extremists who suggested the deal in the first place. People make all sorts of campaign promises that turn out to be BS. Remember when Trump promised to release his tax return once the routine audit was finished?

Still, I'll take the miniscule risk of a Green New Deal instead of having a divisive maniac who is a real immediate threat to this country and the world.
I'd say it's very likley that our democracy can survive four years any stupidity that Biden and Harris are likely to get up to. I'd also say that it's more certain we can survive four years of their brand of stupidity than it is that our democracy can survive another four months of Trump. That pretty much decides it for me.

The survival of the democracy is worth the costs of any of the bad policies Biden and Harris implement.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 13, 2020, 01:02:32 PM
Republican Vets Against Trump:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUBwxpDfLok
Quote
Country before party.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 01:13:09 PM
At a high level I think most people are focused on the Presidency as a threat to the US. Although this is substantial (in the current environment) it shouldn't be. I would guess that most individuals don't like the use of executive orders. They have been on a rapid climb the past two presidencies. Why? I would say it's a failure of congress. If we want to fix government then we should be focused on fixing congress and getting big business out of the rafters. US has become a Corpratocracy (I would include unions in this effort) post WWII and it has accelerated rapidly the past two presidencies. Both parties are guilty of this with their closed door bills and lobbying efforts. Congress is supposed to be a deliberate body, but for the past two decades they have been anything but deliberate. It has escalated division and party lines.

Justin Amash has been hammering this home daily.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 13, 2020, 01:21:16 PM

This is easy, it's inversion. I believe the country is better off without a narcissisitic sociopath in charge, and who doesn't threaten the very fundamentals of Democracy with both his words and his actions. On top of that, being an idiot makes things worse. Ironically, mocking and trying to cover up a pandemic turned out to be worse for his re-election chances than had he dealt with it head on.

So I invert and ask how to best avoid those qualities in a person and Biden/Harris happens to be the best choice. It could have been Harris/Buttigieg, Buttigieg/Klobuchar, Romney/Ryan, or almost any combination of anyone who has ran for President in the last 20 years.

Yes the Green New Deal is extreme. I doubt it makes it into law in its current form. I think Biden and Harris are more moderate than the extremists who suggested the deal in the first place. Still I'll take that risk over having a divisive maniac who is a real immediate threat to this country and the world.

Harris was literally ranked the furthest left person in the Senate.

I think moral busy bodies are worse. Biden and Harris approach policy with a "they know what's best for you" stance. That is extremely un-American.

It takes two sides to be divisive. I agree that Trump is not the best and does little to ease tension. But you cannot ignore the pandering and nonsense from the democratic party to cause divisiveness. Look around, every city across the country is burning because democratic politicians chose to be divisive. That is a much bigger factor in the next election that you think.

Strip away the nothing burgers from MSM and all the Obama era programs attributed to him an Trump looks much better than Biden/Harris. Biden alone has 40+ years of terrible policies in government. Harris is a joke and a sham/con-artist that has proven to say just about anything if it helps her. Trump lacks the extreme policies that Biden and Harris hold.  I think that makes him a better candidate. Will I vote for him? Probably not.

Real risk of Biden/Harris

- Ban on Fracking
- Substantial raise in taxes (corporate and personal) not to mention capital gains taxes
- Increased welfare state
- New social programs (free college) that will never go away and continue to bloat the subsidy system. Potentially something with housing and landlords.
- Weak foreign policy. I think all candidates are relatively even when it comes to this. But I think Trump would be more willing to be tough on China and Russia if pressured into it.
- More money thrown at the failing public school systems and less choice.
- I think there will be a substantial attempt to change/add/remove amendments in the Constitution.


I think most of these things would require Congressional support. If you are assuming that Congress blindly follows everything Biden wants, and that Biden wants all of these things, then yes it's a risk but I don't think either of those are true.

Wall Street has its money behind Biden, he is not a extreme socialist as you have implied:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/09/business/joe-biden-wall-street.html?searchResultPosition=2

Anyway, I would gladly take a ban on fracking, free college, and and higher taxes over an autocratic sociopath. It's an easy choice for me as a card carrying free trade capitalist bordering on Darwinism.

Bolded-

Divisiveness:
There are plenty of people in both the Republican and Democratic parties that are extremely divisive. It matters a lot that there is a President who is not. Biden is an example of someone who is not

Changing amendments:
1. Are you aware of what it takes to add to or change an Amendment to the Constitution? You talk as if it can be done by executive order.
2. Amendments by definition are changes/additions; we have changed them throughout our history and for the good. It is perhaps worth exploring if anything else needs to change.

Foreign policy:
I believe Trump is weak on China despite what he likes to say. Biden would be better. TPP was a phenomenal trade deal created by Obama/Biden meant to isolate China and Trump dismantled it. Biden has indicated his support for it.

https://thebulwark.com/did-trump-get-owned-by-china/
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 13, 2020, 01:24:21 PM
I'd say it's very likley that our democracy can survive four years any stupidity that Biden and Harris are likely to get up to. I'd also say that it's more certain we can survive four years of their brand of stupidity than it is that our democracy can survive another four months of Trump. That pretty much decides it for me.

The survival of the democracy is worth the costs of any of the bad policies Biden and Harris implement.

+1 It's the fat man investing example. People get caught up in all the details and ignore the big picture.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 13, 2020, 01:27:54 PM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

I'll tell you what we get and hopefully this will get you to pull your head out of your ass.  I live in rural Texas about 1.5 hours away from a large metropolitan area.  I, and everyone of my neighbors, rely heavily on the Post Office.  I am talking SS checks, medication, etc.  I am in good health so not a huge deal for me personally but many of my neighbors are not in good health.  Many of my neighbors rely on SS and other government programs for assistance.   It's as close to the most important service that is provided to rural Americans such as myself and my neighbors. 

And Trump has appointed an individual with substantial economic interests in competitors to the USPS and has intentionally sabotaged the mail service in rural America so he can call into question mail-in voting.   Having a President intentionally ruin a life-supporting service to rural Americans so he can make it harder to vote against him in an election is evil.  Plain fucking evil.

I am frankly tired of the both sides bullshit.  Biden nor Harris would never do this to rural Americans and we're not even blue voters.  No President in my lifetime would have done this.  Only Trump. 

He is a once-in-a-generation evil President (by American standards) and, deep down, everyone fucking knows it.  It's now a matter of whether MAGA kool-aid drinkers can find the courage to admit they were wrong or not.     They maybe partisans but I don't believe they are evil.  There is nothing Trump won't do or any group he won't hurt to feed his own ego.

You know who else delivers a shit ton of food stamps, government documents, welfare checks and medications and medical devices daily all over the country to rural locations?
UPS and FedEx...

"Any Republican (Rubio, Cruz, Romney, etc.) would be 100x better than Trump." I agree
1. FedEx and UPS don't really do rural and don't do it will. JSArbitrage covered this really well above.
False
Actually True. Sorry.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 01:41:36 PM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

I'll tell you what we get and hopefully this will get you to pull your head out of your ass.  I live in rural Texas about 1.5 hours away from a large metropolitan area.  I, and everyone of my neighbors, rely heavily on the Post Office.  I am talking SS checks, medication, etc.  I am in good health so not a huge deal for me personally but many of my neighbors are not in good health.  Many of my neighbors rely on SS and other government programs for assistance.   It's as close to the most important service that is provided to rural Americans such as myself and my neighbors. 

And Trump has appointed an individual with substantial economic interests in competitors to the USPS and has intentionally sabotaged the mail service in rural America so he can call into question mail-in voting.   Having a President intentionally ruin a life-supporting service to rural Americans so he can make it harder to vote against him in an election is evil.  Plain fucking evil.

I am frankly tired of the both sides bullshit.  Biden nor Harris would never do this to rural Americans and we're not even blue voters.  No President in my lifetime would have done this.  Only Trump. 

He is a once-in-a-generation evil President (by American standards) and, deep down, everyone fucking knows it.  It's now a matter of whether MAGA kool-aid drinkers can find the courage to admit they were wrong or not.     They maybe partisans but I don't believe they are evil.  There is nothing Trump won't do or any group he won't hurt to feed his own ego.

You know who else delivers a shit ton of food stamps, government documents, welfare checks and medications and medical devices daily all over the country to rural locations?
UPS and FedEx...

"Any Republican (Rubio, Cruz, Romney, etc.) would be 100x better than Trump." I agree
1. FedEx and UPS don't really do rural and don't do it will. JSArbitrage covered this really well above.
False
Actually True. Sorry.

https://www.serviceobjects.com/blog/service-not-available-usps-mail-delivery-limited-may-think/

UPS will deliver to anything anywhere. USPS at best will drop things off at a central box or P.O. Box. Hell UPS even goes out of their way at Indian Reservations to come up with their own streets and house addresses instead of dropping things at a PO Box. I know and have seen dozens of UPS drivers who spend all day on dirt roads in West Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 13, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Really? A blog post from a tech company?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 01:56:00 PM
Really? A blog post from a tech company?

Well as someone who worked in the industry I know for the most part that USPS won’t go down private drives. USPS will defer to their P.O.box whereas UPS will bring it to your door. UPS has positions where and individual will take a box, board a plane, and hand deliver the item (at a cost of course). Same with the oil and gas industry. Who is going to deliver those oil rig parts to the middle of nowhere by helicopter? Not USPS (unless the contract it out). But UPS will.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 13, 2020, 02:18:29 PM
LOL Castanza...classic stuff. The liberal finance guy knows better than someone who worked in the industry and IIRC, for one of the companies being discussed...how appropriate for this thread.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 13, 2020, 02:33:16 PM
Oh yeah, classic stuff, liberal finance guy who doesn't know anything about business across from all these seasoned industry guys who know all about bloat.

Here's the thing. Offer the USPS contract to the FedEx or UPS for the same amount of money it costs to operate the USPS and at the same service standard as USPS. And not some bullshit backroom contract. Real contract with a real SLA and real penalties under the SLA. These guys would be drooling all over it right? After all there's so much bloat and they already go on all of these back roads. My guess is nobody even shows up to bid.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 13, 2020, 02:36:37 PM
For the individuals voting Biden/Kamala. What exactly are you hoping they do when they get in office? I don't think the answer can be "I hope they do nothing and we have a flat four years."

Cwericb if you claim to be a conservative can you really argue that punching a ticket for Biden/Kamala is a "more conservative" vote?

Biden and Kamala aren't going to fix shit when it comes to covid-19. Joe can't even lay out an action plan that isn't hindsight based. Two of Kamalas big priorities are Green New Deal and a ban on fracking. Both Joe and her have a very oppressive policy history for minorities.

Soo what exactly are you getting with them? I don't see the benefit other than not having to listen to Trump.

I'll tell you what we get and hopefully this will get you to pull your head out of your ass.  I live in rural Texas about 1.5 hours away from a large metropolitan area.  I, and everyone of my neighbors, rely heavily on the Post Office.  I am talking SS checks, medication, etc.  I am in good health so not a huge deal for me personally but many of my neighbors are not in good health.  Many of my neighbors rely on SS and other government programs for assistance.   It's as close to the most important service that is provided to rural Americans such as myself and my neighbors. 

And Trump has appointed an individual with substantial economic interests in competitors to the USPS and has intentionally sabotaged the mail service in rural America so he can call into question mail-in voting.   Having a President intentionally ruin a life-supporting service to rural Americans so he can make it harder to vote against him in an election is evil.  Plain fucking evil.

I am frankly tired of the both sides bullshit.  Biden nor Harris would never do this to rural Americans and we're not even blue voters.  No President in my lifetime would have done this.  Only Trump. 

He is a once-in-a-generation evil President (by American standards) and, deep down, everyone fucking knows it.  It's now a matter of whether MAGA kool-aid drinkers can find the courage to admit they were wrong or not.   Any Republican (Rubio, Cruz, Romney, etc.) would be 100x better than Trump.  They maybe partisans but I don't believe they are evil.  There is nothing Trump won't do or any group he won't hurt to feed his own ego.

But the “both sides bullshit” false equivalence is his supporters’ currency!

Like Hugo Chavez or Mussolini, you just accuse everyone of being as corrupt as you and they ignore your own glaring flaws!

But they often are.  Look at the hypocrisy of Trudeau here in Canada...blackface...not once, not twice...at least three times!  Then his family reaps tons of money from non-profit speaking engagements, and that non-profit somehow gets a $900M government pandemic-relief contract.  The company his Chief Deputy's husband works for was also given a huge contract.  Yeah, he has great hair, looks like a boy-band star, and women all over the world swoon for him, but he plays dirty for a Canadian Prime Minister and is terrible at maintaining arms length transactions.   Trump just does it in front of everyone because he's done it all his life and he can sell water to a man drowning in a lake...and his customers, the MAGA supporters, eat it up and want to be him.  So the both sides bullshit may be a false equivalence, but the truth is politicians only succeed if they play those same games. 

Look at Biden's son...crack-addict, cheating, moron...nearly as stupid as Trump, with no drive, and slept with his sister-in-law...uses Daddy's connections to get himself a high-profile, high-paying position.  Literally the "Fredo" of the family!  And Biden goes on defending him, protecting him.  When push comes to shove...many politicians are the same, and that's not a false equivalence.  Cheers!

Whoosh. I think you totally miss false equivalence fallacy. But yeah, this kind of logic enables sociopaths to rise to power. I guess we can say Hugo Chavez and Pablo Escobar are just like Trudeau too...or like TSLAQ saying Elon Musk is like Bernie Madoff. Or Tesla is "just like Enron". Not objective and unfortunately (for them) not a reflection of reality.

I'm not sure Trudeau is running against Trump--is he? I don't know much about Canadian politics, but is brown face the same as Trump's offenses ("both sides are to blame" for Charlottesville/Central Park five/tear gassing protestors, etc etc)? Didn't Trudeau do something Trump never does about this incident in his past (apologize and denounce it as racist)? What about not reading intel briefings or doing anything about U.S. soldiers with Russian bounties in Afghanistan? Or gross pandemic mismanagement (calling it a hoax, undermining Fauci, politicizing masks, holding indoor rallies, etc etc) leading to lots of bodies?

Are we equating Trudeau's nonprofit thing with all of these other things? Or do they just serve as convenient distractions so people can cop out and say "all politicians are the same, elections don't matter"?

Is this the same as Kamala's view on MJ in the 90s or her work relationships? Or her e-mails? Or his birth certificate?

Is Biden's son running for President? I missed this because you compare a lot of his behavior to Trump... I don't think he's going to be occupying a WH spot on the same level as Jared and Ivanka doing pandemic/ventilator management either. Joe Biden tries to defend his son? Ok? So?

Oh, and one more false equivalence you never hear about anymore: Joe Biden has so many accusers, he's just like Trump and Harvey! (No he doesn't and virtually no credible evidence against him and lots of evidence on his side)

Most people are getting it, that's why you now have "Republican Voters Against Trump", Lincoln Project, etc.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 13, 2020, 02:46:50 PM
Haha. Comparing Trudeau to Trump is a joke that shows you haven’t done your homework. There is simply no comparison. For starters, you don’t seem to under stand the difference in scale. Hey, they are both sleazy, but they are in totally different leagues. But anything to try to deflect from Trump I guess.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 13, 2020, 02:50:03 PM
Haha. Comparing Trudeau to Trump is a joke that shows you haven’t done your homework. There is simply no comparison. For starters, you don’t seem to under stand the difference in scale. Hey, they are both sleazy, but they are in totally different leagues. But anything to try to deflect from Trump I guess.

I want to know what such a history essay would score in grade school. Ends with "All politicians are the same"!

You can imagine how some of the nuts who came to power in the 1930s did so by employing the same false equivalency about leaders who came before them too.

"Everyone else is trash too, so why not just vote for me!?"
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 13, 2020, 02:55:23 PM
Oh man...now they even come for Sanjeev. LOL So tolerant of differing perspectives!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 13, 2020, 02:56:56 PM
Oh man...now they even come for Sanjeev. LOL So tolerant of differing perspectives!

It's almost like we disagree with people based on the content of their arguments and not their underlying political affiliation. Weird, right ?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: rb on August 13, 2020, 03:03:11 PM
Haha. Comparing Trudeau to Trump is a joke that shows you haven’t done your homework. There is simply no comparison. For starters, you don’t seem to under stand the difference in scale. Hey, they are both sleazy, but they are in totally different leagues. But anything to try to deflect from Trump I guess.
The bothsides argument is totally bullshit. But when it comes to racism and Trudeau being a racist while Trump is an angel I find it useful to go back to that Grandma saying: "Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are". And racists fucking HATE Trudeau. They really, really hate Trudeau!

On the other hand, racists really, really like Trump.

When they know, they know.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 13, 2020, 03:07:37 PM
Yea, sure Beetlejuice. Your counter to his argument was hyperbole derived from your opinion; I mean you compared Trump to Pablo Escobar LOL....if you dont think that any House or higher level political devotes significant amounts of time and resources to manipulating their imagine/hiding their mistakes, well then, I dont know what to tell you. Everyone single one does, and as Sanjeev correctly asserted, given the system, its virtually impossible to get elected if you dont. But I am sure you can relate to that. Manipulating content. Obsessing over how others perceive you. As Ive said before, you have an awful lot in common with Trump. Maybe you should run for office.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 13, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
Yea, sure Beetlejuice. Your counter to his argument was hyperbole derived from your opinion; I mean you compared Trump to Pablo Escobar LOL....if you dont think that any House or higher level political devotes significant amounts of time and resources to manipulating their imagine/hiding their mistakes, well then, I dont know what to tell you. Everyone single one does, and as Sanjeev correctly asserted, given the system, its virtually impossible to get elected if you dont. But I am sure you can relate to that. Manipulating content. Obsessing over how others perceive you. As Ive said before, you have an awful lot in common with Trump. Maybe you should run for office.

Once again Greggie makes things up to try and go on offensive! This one will go in repository for him to use over and over! All LOLs! And the astute analysis in the second bolded point, wow! Like when libs say "all corporations are evil". No wonder Trump's bag of tricks works so well on him.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 13, 2020, 03:15:14 PM
Yup. Politics is now a "morality" contest....ironic, coming from the religion haters. Oh how funny four years ago they themselves blasted the lesser of two evils "excuses" as they called them, when people pointed out how disgusting of a human Hillary Clinton was. Now they use that same excuse. What a funny world we live in.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 13, 2020, 03:22:10 PM
Yup. Politics is now a "morality" contest....ironic, coming from the religion haters. Oh how funny four years ago they themselves blasted the lesser of two evils "excuses" as they called them, when people pointed out how disgusting of a human Hillary Clinton was. Now they use that same excuse. What a funny world we live in.

Yes, we all remember it was the liberals who have used God and claimed the moral high ground for decades and then elect a devout Saint Donald as the second coming! The irony!

Maybe the Liberty University Guy could chime in. Oh, wait...

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2020/august-web-only/liberty-university-jerry-falwell-jrs-antics-evangelicals.html
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 13, 2020, 03:30:39 PM
So glad to have you back Dalal! I was worried you dont respond to certain types because its a waste of your time and that you'd had it once and for all and moved on from the site for the nineteenth time!

I am also surprised you also dont seem to believe that high level politics is all about imagine manipulation. Basically the purpose of existence for a political strategist, lobbyist, PACs, etc. Nah bro, those dont exist!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 13, 2020, 03:39:31 PM
So glad to have you back Dalal! I was worried you dont respond to certain types because its a waste of your time and that you'd had it once and for all and moved on from the site for the nineteenth time!

I am also surprised you also dont seem to believe that high level politics is all about imagine manipulation. Basically the purpose of existence for a political strategist, lobbyist, PACs, etc. Nah bro, those dont exist!

Back to your old tricks--make things up about me!

Clearly if the second incarnation of Stalin was running for President, you'd be arguing about how Biden's just like him and "all politicians have done shady things" and have PACs, lobbyists, manipulate people, etc, so this guy is A-OK!

Like Libs who say not to invest in any companies because "all corporations are evil" and have lobbyists, political donations, etc. False equivalency at its finest!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 13, 2020, 03:58:57 PM
Haha. Comparing Trudeau to Trump is a joke that shows you haven’t done your homework. There is simply no comparison. For starters, you don’t seem to under stand the difference in scale. Hey, they are both sleazy, but they are in totally different leagues. But anything to try to deflect from Trump I guess.
The bothsides argument is totally bullshit. But when it comes to racism and Trudeau being a racist while Trump is an angel I find it useful to go back to that Grandma saying: "Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are". And racists fucking HATE Trudeau. They really, really hate Trudeau!

On the other hand, racists really, really like Trump.

When they know, they know.

The moment when “both side-ism” broke (neo nazis vs anti-racist protest in Charlottesville):

Quote
Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down -- excuse me, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him?"

But hey, he’s being exactly like that leader who wore brown face decades ago and then vehemently apologized about it and denounced it as racist...

Guess the next level false equivalence is Thomas Jefferson was just like Robert E Lee!! Elon is like Charles Ponzi!

But wait, Trump is the guy Mitt Romney wanted to impeach, so maybe he’s not just like every other politician after all?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Viking on August 13, 2020, 04:02:34 PM
It would be helpful if people got informed and stopped constantly parroting the same nonsense.

I am not a fan of Trudeau. Yes, he did questionable things when much younger. Is he a racist? No. I have listened to him constantly for 5 years and he is not a racist. Is he both naive and stupid? Yes, i think so.

I also have listened to Trump constantly for the past 4 years. Put simply, he is a disgusting human being. There is no way to sugar coat it. Many, many Republicans who have served in his administration agree with my assessment.

It appears that many Americans have grown tired of Trump and his act. We will know more in under 90 days.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 13, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
It would be helpful if people got informed and stopped constantly parroting the same nonsense.

I am not a fan of Trudeau. Yes, he did questionable things when much younger. Is he a racist? No. I have listened to him constantly for 5 years and he is not a racist. Is he both naive and stupid? Yes, i think so.

I also have listened to Trump constantly for the past 4 years. Put simply, he is a disgusting human being. There is no way to sugar coat it. Many, many Republicans who have served in his administration agree with my assessment.

It appears that many Americans have grown tired of Trump and his act. We will know more in under 90 days.

The problem when people start thinking like this (or denying the seriousness of things like pandemics or pollution) is that the harm happens to everyone, not just them. Like those leaders elected in the 1930s who were able to manipulate people into thinking in the same way.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 13, 2020, 04:11:27 PM
It would be helpful if people got informed and stopped constantly parroting the same nonsense.

I am not a fan of Trudeau. Yes, he did questionable things when much younger. Is he a racist? No. I have listened to him constantly for 5 years and he is not a racist. Is he both naive and stupid? Yes, i think so.

I also have listened to Trump constantly for the past 4 years. Put simply, he is a disgusting human being. There is no way to sugar coat it. Many, many Republicans who have served in his administration agree with my assessment.

It appears that many Americans have grown tired of Trump and his act. We will know more in under 90 days.

Yes.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 13, 2020, 04:27:25 PM
The Trudeau racism thing is just to point out the hypocrisy. The same as the "lesser of two evils" being a bs reason to vote for Trump back in 2016, but now all of a sudden its the crux of the argument. Frankly, I could care less whether Trudeau is or isn't racist. Irrelevant to me. A certain side of the political spectrum seems very invested in going around labelling everyone a racist, so its always interesting to mock how low the bar is for calling one a racist/bigot/whatever when its your "opposition" but then when its one of your own, its like "oh but he's really a good guy" and lets now make excuses. Kind of like the Metoo thing. Kamala Harris said she believed Joe Biden accusers because it was convenient for her ambitions. Now its not. I wonder how she'll backtrack on that...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Viking on August 13, 2020, 05:41:12 PM
No other person in US politics today can be compared to Trump (in what they say or what they do). He is in a league all by himself. Pretty much every day he says or does something that is inappropriate or worse (sometimes much worse). Numerous web sites document all the many lies that come out of his mouth pretty much every time he speaks.

A normal US politician might say or do something that is inappropriate or worse a couple times in a year. Usually they apologize heavily and sometimes it costs them their political career.

Bottom line, comparing any existing US (or Canadian) politician (Republican or Democrat) to Trump is completely irrelevant. It is like trying to compare a little league baseball player to Babe Ruth. Worse than useless.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 13, 2020, 06:11:21 PM
No other person in US politics today can be compared to Trump (in what they say or what they do). He is in a league all by himself. Pretty much every day he says or does something that is inappropriate or worse (sometimes much worse). Numerous web sites document all the many lies that come out of his mouth pretty much every time he speaks.

A normal US politician might say or do something that is inappropriate or worse a couple times in a year. Usually they apologize heavily and sometimes it costs them their political career.

Bottom line, comparing any existing US (or Canadian) politician (Republican or Democrat) to Trump is completely irrelevant. It is like trying to compare a little league baseball player to Babe Ruth. Worse than useless.

This is exactly right. But what I simply cannot understand is how reasonably intelligent people can somehow overlook this behaviour and still support him. Trump has seriously degraded America's reputation, a reputation that took hundreds of years to build and it may take generations to rebuild, but it seems that they either just don’t care or simply can't step outside the box and see how the country appears to the rest of the world.

The Russians, Chinese, Iranians, and North Koreans must be laughing their asses off.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 13, 2020, 06:20:06 PM
You guys will be surprised when Trump increases his black vote from 9% to say 15% - he'll be in as President.

Try coming to Chicago, where everyone is appalled with the violence and looting all over the city.
A gutless, worthless mayor blames it on Trump and CV19!

But she holds the majority - every major position is filled with Democratic partisans - and the place is falling apart.
This city has been run by Democrats for 60 years. The black communities are more dangerous now than ever.
The Mayor calls the police off - and looting and murders go through the roof.

Yet, the loser blames it on Trump!

No one is falling for this bullshit anymore. Not the paradise/utopia that the Democrats created here.

People with money are voting with their feet - fleeing to Florida/Tennessee/Texas....

The poor blacks are stuck with terrible violence - and now many of them are turning on BLM/Antifa and their Democratic saviors
that created paradise for them.

This is real life folks.  You jokers squawk about "Trump is so rude and nasty, inappropriate,  etc. blah, blah, blah"

You think those suburban housewives want this coming to their safe suburban neighborhoods - NO WAY.

What a laugh.  Wait till Election Day folks. This is real life stuff.

This will be an election about LAW AND ORDER.  You want anarchy- you voted Democratic. You want Law and Order restored - Republican.

The Democrats are completely destroying themselves.

The Big Picture is becoming very clear now.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 13, 2020, 06:21:27 PM
It would be helpful if people got informed and stopped constantly parroting the same nonsense.

I am not a fan of Trudeau. Yes, he did questionable things when much younger. Is he a racist? No. I have listened to him constantly for 5 years and he is not a racist. Is he both naive and stupid? Yes, i think so.

I also have listened to Trump constantly for the past 4 years. Put simply, he is a disgusting human being. There is no way to sugar coat it. Many, many Republicans who have served in his administration agree with my assessment.

It appears that many Americans have grown tired of Trump and his act. We will know more in under 90 days.

This “analysis” reeks of biased. You can’t condemn one and shrug off the other when they are just as bad except they have nice hair and a good smile. Trudeau is a fucking two faced weasel.

Trump is an asshole, completely agree. I imagine a few of our past presidents would be just as bad if they had the social media aspect of today added to their presidency. Johnson, Nixon, Clinton come to mind. Go back further and it would get much worse.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 13, 2020, 06:34:21 PM
“LAW AND ORDER”

It is rather amusing to that phrase and "Trump" used in the same sentence when the words “Trump” and “Law and Order” are mutually exclusive.

Right now Trump is not just fighting an election. He very likely knows that when he is no longer president he may well move from the Whitehouse to the Jailhouse.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 13, 2020, 07:17:32 PM
“LAW AND ORDER”

It is rather amusing to that phrase and "Trump" used in the same sentence when the words “Trump” and “Law and Order” are mutually exclusive.

Right now Trump is not just fighting an election. He very likely knows that when he is no longer president he may well move from the Whitehouse to the Jailhouse.

Right....

Continue to ignore the destruction of America's largest cities - the rioting, burning, looting.
It's all just a mirage to you - but it's real as hell for the citizens of the country.

Thank you NYC, Chicago, Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, LA, San Fran - all Democratic strongholds with no respect for their residents.

All in the name of "social justice".

Thanks for defunding the police and demonizing the cops - and driving up murder/crime 50%+

But, sure CW - blame it on the orange man. Your buddies will fall for your BS - but most of the citizens won't.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 13, 2020, 07:36:05 PM
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/13/902362014/trump-and-his-campaign-amplify-birther-conspiracy-against-kamala-harris

Quote
Trump, who led a "birther" conspiracy movement against former President Barack Obama, told reporters Thursday that he heard a "highly qualified, very talented lawyer" opine that Harris didn't qualify to serve as vice president but did not know if it were true or not. Trump was responding to a question and was referring to a Newsweek opinion piece by law professor John Eastman inaccurately calling into question Harris' eligibility.

Mr. "Totally not racist" (wink, wink) Trump...

No racial undertones here amirite?

Just like Trudeau, eh?

Love his language too: "I heard from a highly qualified, very talented lawyer"..."but I don't know if it's true or not (I'm just asking questions!)" Like Obama's Birth Certificate! Or Lyin' Ted the Zodiac Killer!

It's like his language is made to communicate directly to a certain IQ segment (and it works!)...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Viking on August 13, 2020, 11:17:31 PM
It would be helpful if people got informed and stopped constantly parroting the same nonsense.

I am not a fan of Trudeau. Yes, he did questionable things when much younger. Is he a racist? No. I have listened to him constantly for 5 years and he is not a racist. Is he both naive and stupid? Yes, i think so.

I also have listened to Trump constantly for the past 4 years. Put simply, he is a disgusting human being. There is no way to sugar coat it. Many, many Republicans who have served in his administration agree with my assessment.

It appears that many Americans have grown tired of Trump and his act. We will know more in under 90 days.

This “analysis” reeks of biased. You can’t condemn one and shrug off the other when they are just as bad except they have nice hair and a good smile. Trudeau is a fucking two faced weasel.

Trump is an asshole, completely agree. I imagine a few of our past presidents would be just as bad if they had the social media aspect of today added to their presidency. Johnson, Nixon, Clinton come to mind. Go back further and it would get much worse.

‘Just as bad’ ? Really? I do not like Trudeau. But i will take him as a leader EVERY TIME over Trump.

Trump is slowly destroying American democracy. And he didn’t even try his first two years (likely because he was surrounded by advisors who put the US first). Give Trump a second term and he will hit the ground running and accelerate his remaking of the system. The US will effectively become a monarchy where all will have to swear support to Trump first, US second (it has already happened with all appointments the past 2 years). The lies will get bigger. He will continue to promote mistrust of government, law enforcement, the media... Trump will tell you what to think and what to do.

But i know... the other choice is just as bad! (This, of course, is complete nonsense.) Trump has almost won and smart people are blind and cannot see what is happening right in front of their face.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Parsad on August 13, 2020, 11:58:09 PM
Haha. Comparing Trudeau to Trump is a joke that shows you haven’t done your homework. There is simply no comparison. For starters, you don’t seem to under stand the difference in scale. Hey, they are both sleazy, but they are in totally different leagues. But anything to try to deflect from Trump I guess.
The bothsides argument is totally bullshit. But when it comes to racism and Trudeau being a racist while Trump is an angel I find it useful to go back to that Grandma saying: "Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are". And racists fucking HATE Trudeau. They really, really hate Trudeau!

On the other hand, racists really, really like Trump.

When they know, they know.

My uncle in Seattle has been searching for something his whole life.  He's East Indian, but has lived in the U.S. now for about 53 years.  He was a hardcore Hindu-Punjabi for the early part of his life, then a hardcore naturopathic follower, and finally about 12 years ago became a born-again Christian. 

Now he's a hardcore Trump supporter and cannot stand Obama, Liberals or almost anyone/anything that disagrees with the Bible.  He's not a racist, but he will defend anything Trump does.  I can't talk to him anymore and haven't seen him in almost 8 years since his stroke.  So the people who like Trump aren't necessarily all racists...how do you explain Kanye West and Ben Carson? 

I do think many, if not most of them, are the "frat boy or Archie Bunker" type, as well many are probably a bit mentally-challenged and enjoy the whole boisterous, egotistical, narcissistic personality/brand, and they think "white is right" or at least "white is better".  But to say they are all racists is as silly as what they say about liberals.  I would say at least a third of those that voted for Trump, simply didn't like the alternative in Hillary Clinton.  If the Democrats actually put up a viable candidate, they would beat Trump no problem. 

Why is it that after the loss by Hillary, the Democrat depth chart only goes as far as Joe Biden.  Unlike others, I'm actually pleased he picked Kamala Harris because it improves his chances of getting more women and minority voters.  But why is Biden the best Democrats could do?  Forget what Gregmal or Cubsfan say, because they will defend anything Trump says...but my liberal friends, tell me why Biden is the best we could do after Hillary?  Cheers!

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 14, 2020, 12:06:34 AM
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/13/902362014/trump-and-his-campaign-amplify-birther-conspiracy-against-kamala-harris

Quote
Trump, who led a "birther" conspiracy movement against former President Barack Obama, told reporters Thursday that he heard a "highly qualified, very talented lawyer" opine that Harris didn't qualify to serve as vice president but did not know if it were true or not. Trump was responding to a question and was referring to a Newsweek opinion piece by law professor John Eastman inaccurately calling into question Harris' eligibility.

Mr. "Totally not racist" (wink, wink) Trump...

No racial undertones here amirite?

Just like Trudeau, eh?

Love his language too: "I heard from a highly qualified, very talented lawyer"..."but I don't know if it's true or not (I'm just asking questions!)" Like Obama's Birth Certificate! Or Lyin' Ted the Zodiac Killer!

It's like his language is made to communicate directly to a certain IQ segment (and it works!)...

And what about when Democrats claimed the same against John McCain? Racist? Of course not. We just continue to fabricate the narrative so we can use our labels!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/07/there-was-a-very-real-birther-debate-about-john-mccain/

But yea, continue the hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Parsad on August 14, 2020, 12:15:38 AM
It would be helpful if people got informed and stopped constantly parroting the same nonsense.

I am not a fan of Trudeau. Yes, he did questionable things when much younger. Is he a racist? No. I have listened to him constantly for 5 years and he is not a racist. Is he both naive and stupid? Yes, i think so.

I also have listened to Trump constantly for the past 4 years. Put simply, he is a disgusting human being. There is no way to sugar coat it. Many, many Republicans who have served in his administration agree with my assessment.

It appears that many Americans have grown tired of Trump and his act. We will know more in under 90 days.

The problem when people start thinking like this (or denying the seriousness of things like pandemics or pollution) is that the harm happens to everyone, not just them. Like those leaders elected in the 1930s who were able to manipulate people into thinking in the same way.

The other problem is when people start parroting what you are saying, and those that could make a difference become tone deaf to all of the same crap from the other side. 

Do you really think Colbert, CNN, SNL, Maher are swaying center-left or center voters to the left?  You cannot watch any of those shows without them spending most of the show taking shots at Trump or the Republicans.  It was funny in the beginning...now it reeks of desperation and unoriginality!  At least The Daily Show tries to be a bit balanced, but most liberal media are playing exactly into the hands of the right wing and their outlets like Fox, Breitbart, etc.

There are cries now to defund police in several major cities in North America.  Do the left, outside of the really hardcore left, think this is a good idea at all?  The hardcore left is as bad as the hardcore right. Biden and Kamala Harris need to play up the middle...they aren't going to sway the hardcore Trump base.  But they do need to win over the center-left Republicans! 

Equating center left voters who question liberal attitudes with those who put a certain Chancellor into power back in 1933 is just silly!  Cheers!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 14, 2020, 05:09:56 AM
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/13/902362014/trump-and-his-campaign-amplify-birther-conspiracy-against-kamala-harris

Quote
Trump, who led a "birther" conspiracy movement against former President Barack Obama, told reporters Thursday that he heard a "highly qualified, very talented lawyer" opine that Harris didn't qualify to serve as vice president but did not know if it were true or not. Trump was responding to a question and was referring to a Newsweek opinion piece by law professor John Eastman inaccurately calling into question Harris' eligibility.

Mr. "Totally not racist" (wink, wink) Trump...

No racial undertones here amirite?

Just like Trudeau, eh?

Love his language too: "I heard from a highly qualified, very talented lawyer"..."but I don't know if it's true or not (I'm just asking questions!)" Like Obama's Birth Certificate! Or Lyin' Ted the Zodiac Killer!

It's like his language is made to communicate directly to a certain IQ segment (and it works!)...

And what about when Democrats claimed the same against John McCain? Racist? Of course not. We just continue to fabricate the narrative so we can use our labels!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/07/there-was-a-very-real-birther-debate-about-john-mccain/

But yea, continue the hypocrisy.

From your article:
Quote
Questions in 2008 about the presidential eligibility of McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal Zone to two American parents, never reached the level of Obama or even Cruz, and McCain was helped out by his fellow senators and even Democratic presidential candidates agreeing that he was eligible.

Even Dem candidates supported McCain, but here you have a sitting President doing it to Kamala on camera so Gregmal says “it’s just like what the Dems did before!”.

Trump is so lucky to have people like Greggie to dig up false equivalencies throughout history to help defend him.

Amusing that he often uses Mitt Romney and John McCain to help Trump when both men have pretty much concluded Trumpy a disgrace and “disgusting human being”.

But hey, let’s wait for the next ridiculous thing Trump does so you can find some Democratic political consultant who did some lesser form of it once in history to say “see, all politicians are the same!”

And please excuse the behavior of the President of the United States as “totally normal”!

Hope you bring the same level of analysis with businesses.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 14, 2020, 05:33:22 AM
Haha. Comparing Trudeau to Trump is a joke that shows you haven’t done your homework. There is simply no comparison. For starters, you don’t seem to under stand the difference in scale. Hey, they are both sleazy, but they are in totally different leagues. But anything to try to deflect from Trump I guess.
The bothsides argument is totally bullshit. But when it comes to racism and Trudeau being a racist while Trump is an angel I find it useful to go back to that Grandma saying: "Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are". And racists fucking HATE Trudeau. They really, really hate Trudeau!

On the other hand, racists really, really like Trump.

When they know, they know.

My uncle in Seattle has been searching for something his whole life.  He's East Indian, but has lived in the U.S. now for about 53 years.  He was a hardcore Hindu-Punjabi for the early part of his life, then a hardcore naturopathic follower, and finally about 12 years ago became a born-again Christian. 

Now he's a hardcore Trump supporter and cannot stand Obama, Liberals or almost anyone/anything that disagrees with the Bible.  He's not a racist, but he will defend anything Trump does.  I can't talk to him anymore and haven't seen him in almost 8 years since his stroke.  So the people who like Trump aren't necessarily all racists...how do you explain Kanye West and Ben Carson? 

I do think many, if not most of them, are the "frat boy or Archie Bunker" type, as well many are probably a bit mentally-challenged and enjoy the whole boisterous, egotistical, narcissistic personality/brand, and they think "white is right" or at least "white is better".  But to say they are all racists is as silly as what they say about liberals.  I would say at least a third of those that voted for Trump, simply didn't like the alternative in Hillary Clinton.  If the Democrats actually put up a viable candidate, they would beat Trump no problem. 

Why is it that after the loss by Hillary, the Democrat depth chart only goes as far as Joe Biden.  Unlike others, I'm actually pleased he picked Kamala Harris because it improves his chances of getting more women and minority voters.  But why is Biden the best Democrats could do?  Forget what Gregmal or Cubsfan say, because they will defend anything Trump says...but my liberal friends, tell me why Biden is the best we could do after Hillary?  Cheers!

Does your what your uncle or Kanye think lead us to validly conclude that this guy (“Kung Flu”, Kamala birther just yesterday) is not racist?

Here is a counterpoint:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews

Quote
In 1934 the Association made the following statement:[6]

"We have always held the well-being of the German people and the fatherland, to which we feel inextricably linked, above our own well-being. Thus we greeted the results of January 1933, even though it has brought hardship for us personally."

A possible reason why some German Jews supported Hitler may have been that they thought that his antisemitism only was for the purpose of "stirring up the masses".[1]

If you were alive then, would you use the supporters above as evidence that Adolf surely could not be an anti-semite?

I am not equating Adolf to Trump, merely using this to discredit your anecdotes of “see, these minorities support Trump, so he can’t be racist!”

So yeah, I don’t care what your relative or Kanye thinks.

If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it is a duck. Most sane people have concluded such.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: bearprowler6 on August 14, 2020, 06:10:05 AM
Haha. Comparing Trudeau to Trump is a joke that shows you haven’t done your homework. There is simply no comparison. For starters, you don’t seem to under stand the difference in scale. Hey, they are both sleazy, but they are in totally different leagues. But anything to try to deflect from Trump I guess.
The bothsides argument is totally bullshit. But when it comes to racism and Trudeau being a racist while Trump is an angel I find it useful to go back to that Grandma saying: "Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are". And racists fucking HATE Trudeau. They really, really hate Trudeau!

On the other hand, racists really, really like Trump.

When they know, they know.

My uncle in Seattle has been searching for something his whole life.  He's East Indian, but has lived in the U.S. now for about 53 years.  He was a hardcore Hindu-Punjabi for the early part of his life, then a hardcore naturopathic follower, and finally about 12 years ago became a born-again Christian. 

Now he's a hardcore Trump supporter and cannot stand Obama, Liberals or almost anyone/anything that disagrees with the Bible.  He's not a racist, but he will defend anything Trump does.  I can't talk to him anymore and haven't seen him in almost 8 years since his stroke.  So the people who like Trump aren't necessarily all racists...how do you explain Kanye West and Ben Carson

I do think many, if not most of them, are the "frat boy or Archie Bunker" type, as well many are probably a bit mentally-challenged and enjoy the whole boisterous, egotistical, narcissistic personality/brand, and they think "white is right" or at least "white is better".  But to say they are all racists is as silly as what they say about liberals.  I would say at least a third of those that voted for Trump, simply didn't like the alternative in Hillary Clinton.  If the Democrats actually put up a viable candidate, they would beat Trump no problem. 

Why is it that after the loss by Hillary, the Democrat depth chart only goes as far as Joe Biden.  Unlike others, I'm actually pleased he picked Kamala Harris because it improves his chances of getting more women and minority voters.  But why is Biden the best Democrats could do?  Forget what Gregmal or Cubsfan say, because they will defend anything Trump says...but my liberal friends, tell me why Biden is the best we could do after Hillary?  Cheers!

Uncle Toms?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 14, 2020, 06:20:38 AM
ABC hates Trump. ABC puts stuff out like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxdvOLdG_34

https://www.newsweek.com/abc-jeffrey-epstein-story-amy-robach-prince-andrew-1469893

And Disney (so family friendly!) owns ABC.  ::)

Trump gets my vote.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 14, 2020, 07:15:34 AM
It would be helpful if people got informed and stopped constantly parroting the same nonsense.

I am not a fan of Trudeau. Yes, he did questionable things when much younger. Is he a racist? No. I have listened to him constantly for 5 years and he is not a racist. Is he both naive and stupid? Yes, i think so.

I also have listened to Trump constantly for the past 4 years. Put simply, he is a disgusting human being. There is no way to sugar coat it. Many, many Republicans who have served in his administration agree with my assessment.

It appears that many Americans have grown tired of Trump and his act. We will know more in under 90 days.

This “analysis” reeks of biased. You can’t condemn one and shrug off the other when they are just as bad except they have nice hair and a good smile. Trudeau is a fucking two faced weasel.

Trump is an asshole, completely agree. I imagine a few of our past presidents would be just as bad if they had the social media aspect of today added to their presidency. Johnson, Nixon, Clinton come to mind. Go back further and it would get much worse.

‘Just as bad’ ? Really? I do not like Trudeau. But i will take him as a leader EVERY TIME over Trump.

Trump is slowly destroying American democracy. And he didn’t even try his first two years (likely because he was surrounded by advisors who put the US first). Give Trump a second term and he will hit the ground running and accelerate his remaking of the system. The US will effectively become a monarchy where all will have to swear support to Trump first, US second (it has already happened with all appointments the past 2 years). The lies will get bigger. He will continue to promote mistrust of government, law enforcement, the media... Trump will tell you what to think and what to do.

But i know... the other choice is just as bad! (This, of course, is complete nonsense.) Trump has almost won and smart people are blind and cannot see what is happening right in front of their face.
- How is he remaking the system?
- Americans have plenty of reason to mistrust the government. Also, I have not seen him promote mistrust of law enforcement.
- MSM is broken. Trump doesn't need say this for people to realize it's true.
- Congress is broken...the US is a corpratocracy. Justin Amash has even pointed out that since Pelosi has taken over as speaker. Nobody has been able to offer amendments to bills on the floor. Everything is being done behind closed doors.
- Trump a threat to democracy? He is one man and the USA is a hard ship to steer.

Lets do a quick review of the Russian Investigation though while were on "threat to democracy."

Basis of original Russian investigation
- Dossier which was funded by the DNC and constructed by fusion GPS and opposition group.
  Debunked and shown to have tons of inaccuracies. Then it was used in a FISA court to allow surveillance.

Three members of the Trump campaign that held former high level security clearance positions. Chris Christie, Rudy Giuliani and Michael Flynn.
If the FBI was concerned they could have approached them at any time, but they didn't. Instead they illegally spied on the campaign.

Andrew McCabe admitted that his initial "findings" to trigger the Mueller report were based on false information. 

30+ indictments

Paul Manafort - Going to prison (not for Russian interference) but for tax fraud, wire fraud, and lobbying for Ukraine! Linked to Kilimnik (suspected Russian intelligence)

George Papadopoulos - Lied under oath to FBI. No Russian interference, no collusion found.

Michael Flynn (DOJ dropped case) - Indicted for a process crime (not Russian collusion). He did not fill out the paperwork properly for Trump to
      become National Security Council Adviser. Unregistered foreign lobbying for the Turkish Government.

Michael Cohen - On the record lying 15 times to congress in two separate testimonies. He was not indicted for Russian collusion but instead for
      Taxi medallion fraud, tax fraud, and wire fraud

Obamas White House Counsel - Indicted for unregistered foreign lobbying, taking a 4m dollar wire transfer that was laundered through Cyprus with Paul Manafort being the lawyer.


The rest of the 30+ indictments are foreign Russian citizens running troll farms....Russia as a country is registered as a foreign adversary....no connection to Trump.

30m dollars, two+ years of work and Adam "shit for brains" Schiff says "we are still waiting for material evidence". Meanwhile there has been over 2,000+ articles
written by the four major newspapers (USA Today, The Washington Post, The L.A.Times, The New York Times) alluding and in most cases insinuating a Trump Russian collusion.

Five Trump associates indicted and not a single connection between Trump campaign and Russia. Let's not forget all the soundbites from DNC campaign heads saying Trump will be impeached no matter what. They planned an impeachment before his election. If that isn't a threat to democracy then I don't know what is.

And this is still ongoing...


If Trump really does something serious to they system, I think you underestimate the number of individuals who would turn on him. Many people support Trump simply because of what's on the other side of the aisle. When you fill your party with individuals who want to "tear down the system", get rid of law and order, shoot senators, take over congress, and want to change America at a fundamental level, you will always be met with heavy opposition and support for whatever candidate exists on the other side.

American people want dangerous freedom and choice. They want the fundamentals to stay the same because that's what made America Great in the first place.

I'm of the opinion that America doesn't have to be the best in the short term, to be the best in the long term. This country should focus on the freedom to choose and work on separating business from government. Reduce the barriers and the bloat that shouldn't exist in the first place.

I'll end with a Thomas Sowell quote: "Most of the problems in this country are not nearly as bad as the "solutions" - especially the solutions that politicians come up with during election years."

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Parsad on August 14, 2020, 04:32:55 PM
Haha. Comparing Trudeau to Trump is a joke that shows you haven’t done your homework. There is simply no comparison. For starters, you don’t seem to under stand the difference in scale. Hey, they are both sleazy, but they are in totally different leagues. But anything to try to deflect from Trump I guess.
The bothsides argument is totally bullshit. But when it comes to racism and Trudeau being a racist while Trump is an angel I find it useful to go back to that Grandma saying: "Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are". And racists fucking HATE Trudeau. They really, really hate Trudeau!

On the other hand, racists really, really like Trump.

When they know, they know.

My uncle in Seattle has been searching for something his whole life.  He's East Indian, but has lived in the U.S. now for about 53 years.  He was a hardcore Hindu-Punjabi for the early part of his life, then a hardcore naturopathic follower, and finally about 12 years ago became a born-again Christian. 

Now he's a hardcore Trump supporter and cannot stand Obama, Liberals or almost anyone/anything that disagrees with the Bible.  He's not a racist, but he will defend anything Trump does.  I can't talk to him anymore and haven't seen him in almost 8 years since his stroke.  So the people who like Trump aren't necessarily all racists...how do you explain Kanye West and Ben Carson? 

I do think many, if not most of them, are the "frat boy or Archie Bunker" type, as well many are probably a bit mentally-challenged and enjoy the whole boisterous, egotistical, narcissistic personality/brand, and they think "white is right" or at least "white is better".  But to say they are all racists is as silly as what they say about liberals.  I would say at least a third of those that voted for Trump, simply didn't like the alternative in Hillary Clinton.  If the Democrats actually put up a viable candidate, they would beat Trump no problem. 

Why is it that after the loss by Hillary, the Democrat depth chart only goes as far as Joe Biden.  Unlike others, I'm actually pleased he picked Kamala Harris because it improves his chances of getting more women and minority voters.  But why is Biden the best Democrats could do?  Forget what Gregmal or Cubsfan say, because they will defend anything Trump says...but my liberal friends, tell me why Biden is the best we could do after Hillary?  Cheers!

Does your what your uncle or Kanye think lead us to validly conclude that this guy (“Kung Flu”, Kamala birther just yesterday) is not racist?

Here is a counterpoint:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews

Quote
In 1934 the Association made the following statement:[6]

"We have always held the well-being of the German people and the fatherland, to which we feel inextricably linked, above our own well-being. Thus we greeted the results of January 1933, even though it has brought hardship for us personally."

A possible reason why some German Jews supported Hitler may have been that they thought that his antisemitism only was for the purpose of "stirring up the masses".[1]

If you were alive then, would you use the supporters above as evidence that Adolf surely could not be an anti-semite?

I am not equating Adolf to Trump, merely using this to discredit your anecdotes of “see, these minorities support Trump, so he can’t be racist!”

So yeah, I don’t care what your relative or Kanye thinks.

If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it is a duck. Most sane people have concluded such.

I don't care what my uncle or Kanye thinks either.  But Democrats underestimated Trump and his base last time, as well as how many center left voters would vote for him.  Your blindness to this because of your dislike for Trump is what poses the greatest threat to him being elected again.

I was one of the few people who actually spoke up when the Bush administration attacked Iraq even after the United Nations envoy showed that there were no nuclear materials in Iraq.  I was lambasted by almost every post on the MF BRK message board back then.  And I think Trump is a greater threat than Bush/Cheney ever were.  But Trump's base is much deeper than Bush/Cheney...they are hardcore and will do anything and everything he asks of them.  No justification needed!

By out-casting those that question Democratic party decisions is just playing into what Trump wants and needs.  Fracturing voters is what they want.  Democrats need to be uniting any and every voter that comes their way, not telling them either you are with us or against us.  That's how Hitler got the votes, and my greatest concern is you guys f**k this up again, and the world (not America) has to live with the consequences.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 14, 2020, 04:43:46 PM
I don't care what my uncle or Kanye thinks either.  But Democrats underestimated Trump and his base last time, as well as how many center left voters would vote for him.  Your blindness to this because of your dislike for Trump is what poses the greatest threat to him being elected again.

I was one of the few people who actually spoke up when the Bush administration attacked Iraq even after the United Nations envoy showed that there were no nuclear materials in Iraq.  I was lambasted by almost every post on the MF BRK message board back then.  And I think Trump is a greater threat than Bush/Cheney ever were.  But Trump's base is much deeper than Bush/Cheney...they are hardcore and will do anything and everything he asks of them.  No justification needed!

By out-casting those that question Democratic party decisions is just playing into what Trump wants and needs.  Fracturing voters is what they want.  Democrats need to be uniting any and every voter that comes their way, not telling them either you are with us or against us. That's how Hitler got the votes, and my greatest concern is you guys f**k this up again, and the world (not America) has to live with the consequences.  Cheers!

Sure. And false equivalence fallacy "both sides are bad" allows Trump to fracture the country. It allows people to ignore the glaring flaws of himself (called out by McCain, Romney, Mattis, etc) and cause people to think "it doesn't matter if I vote because all politicians are bad/corrupt". My point was the comparison to Trudeau brown face a few times was way off. The Kamala Birther thing isn't even 24 h old. This guy always has new racially charged material. So no, Trudeau is way off and a cop out. "Disgusting human being" is right (though maybe the 'human being' part is being generous).

There is much more unity with the Dems than in 2016, but tampering with the USPS with election months away is clear effort to undermine democracy.

Actions like this cannot be normalized and you can't say "he's just being like all the other Presidents we've had" and "all politicians are bad". If you believe that, you are either a poor student of history or intentionally misleading (as his constant fans are).
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 14, 2020, 06:25:44 PM
Speaking of "fracturing the country" - read this letter from Steven Levy (huge name in Chicago residential real estate) to Mayor Lori Lightfoot
regarding the disintegration of his beloved Chicago:

https://wirepoints.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020-8-12-Sudlers-Letter-to-Lightfoot.pdf

But you go right ahead and blame it on the Orange man.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 14, 2020, 06:42:37 PM
Speaking of "fracturing the country" - read this letter from Steven Levy (huge name in Chicago residential real estate) to Mayor Lori Lightfoot
regarding the disintegration of his beloved Chicago:

https://wirepoints.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020-8-12-Sudlers-Letter-to-Lightfoot.pdf

But you go right ahead and blame it on the Orange man.

Wow, someone's jealous he wasn't invited to the house party!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Orange on August 15, 2020, 01:30:32 AM

I was one of the few people who actually spoke up when the Bush administration attacked Iraq even after the United Nations envoy showed that there were no nuclear materials in Iraq.  I was lambasted by almost every post on the MF BRK message board back then.  And I think Trump is a greater threat than Bush/Cheney ever were.  But Trump's base is much deeper than Bush/Cheney...they are hardcore and will do anything and everything he asks of them.  No justification needed!


This is one of the cringe-iest appeals to authority a person can make. "I was right about a political issue 17 years ago, therefore I am right again" its painful to read.

You are too removed from Trump's base to really understand it. Bush's base and Trump's base don't really care about them, it is more about how they embodied the conservative zeitgeist of their time, and that won them so much support. Once the zeitgeist changes, they fall apart, like Bush did at the end of his presidency amid the housing crash. Trump has fallen apart after Covid and the race riots. My entire family are Trump voters living in rural America. They are all pissed at him, people don't care about border walls or Chinese tariffs anymore. The zeitgeist has changed and Trump has lost control of his base.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 15, 2020, 10:04:27 AM

I was one of the few people who actually spoke up when the Bush administration attacked Iraq even after the United Nations envoy showed that there were no nuclear materials in Iraq.  I was lambasted by almost every post on the MF BRK message board back then.  And I think Trump is a greater threat than Bush/Cheney ever were.  But Trump's base is much deeper than Bush/Cheney...they are hardcore and will do anything and everything he asks of them.  No justification needed!


This is one of the cringe-iest appeals to authority a person can make. "I was right about a political issue 17 years ago, therefore I am right again" its painful to read.

You are too removed from Trump's base to really understand it. Bush's base and Trump's base don't really care about them, it is more about how they embodied the conservative zeitgeist of their time, and that won them so much support. Once the zeitgeist changes, they fall apart, like Bush did at the end of his presidency amid the housing crash. Trump has fallen apart after Covid and the race riots. My entire family are Trump voters living in rural America. They are all pissed at him, people don't care about border walls or Chinese tariffs anymore. The zeitgeist has changed and Trump has lost control of his base.

Reality is actually between what you both said.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 15, 2020, 11:06:02 AM
There's also the candidate specific factor. I mean look at how little enthusiasm there currently is for Biden/Harris. It says quite a bit when the overwhelming case for most of their supporters isn't anything other than "I hate Trump". Whereas on the other side, I remember being a bit surprising last winter(2019), taking the boat around the mangroves in South Florida. You'd be surprised just how many massive flags and banners are hanging from the waterfront properties and flying from the boats. Guess what those flags are? I was reminded of this today as I was out getting fuel for my boat on the largest lake in NJ. Probably 10-15% of boats or waterfront homes had Trump 2020 flags flying. Yes, in NJ. I saw absolutely nothing for Biden. I've never flown a flag or endorsed political banners/stickers/shirts etc in my life so I cant really relate to this, but to see so many people who feel that compelled to do so is pretty telling. Obviously, owners of multimillion dollar waterfront mansion in FL or boats and lake homes in NJ are just racist, lower class rednecks, so maybe the data's skewed....but despite all the fanfare about how evil everything the guy does and how dumb all his supporters are, I cant remember there being this much commotion and excitement around a candidate since maybe Obama in 2008. For the record, I didnt vote for Obama or McCain in 08 as I was preoccupied with an Election Day themed kegger at school. But funny enough, several big Obama fans attended wearing.....everyone's favorite makeup...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 16, 2020, 12:40:38 PM

I was one of the few people who actually spoke up when the Bush administration attacked Iraq even after the United Nations envoy showed that there were no nuclear materials in Iraq.  I was lambasted by almost every post on the MF BRK message board back then.  And I think Trump is a greater threat than Bush/Cheney ever were.  But Trump's base is much deeper than Bush/Cheney...they are hardcore and will do anything and everything he asks of them.  No justification needed!


This is one of the cringe-iest appeals to authority a person can make. "I was right about a political issue 17 years ago, therefore I am right again" its painful to read.

You are too removed from Trump's base to really understand it. Bush's base and Trump's base don't really care about them, it is more about how they embodied the conservative zeitgeist of their time, and that won them so much support. Once the zeitgeist changes, they fall apart, like Bush did at the end of his presidency amid the housing crash. Trump has fallen apart after Covid and the race riots. My entire family are Trump voters living in rural America. They are all pissed at him, people don't care about border walls or Chinese tariffs anymore. The zeitgeist has changed and Trump has lost control of his base.

Yeah but would you say that they're not going to vote for him now?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Parsad on August 16, 2020, 06:59:33 PM

I was one of the few people who actually spoke up when the Bush administration attacked Iraq even after the United Nations envoy showed that there were no nuclear materials in Iraq.  I was lambasted by almost every post on the MF BRK message board back then.  And I think Trump is a greater threat than Bush/Cheney ever were.  But Trump's base is much deeper than Bush/Cheney...they are hardcore and will do anything and everything he asks of them.  No justification needed!


This is one of the cringe-iest appeals to authority a person can make. "I was right about a political issue 17 years ago, therefore I am right again" its painful to read.

You are too removed from Trump's base to really understand it. Bush's base and Trump's base don't really care about them, it is more about how they embodied the conservative zeitgeist of their time, and that won them so much support. Once the zeitgeist changes, they fall apart, like Bush did at the end of his presidency amid the housing crash. Trump has fallen apart after Covid and the race riots. My entire family are Trump voters living in rural America. They are all pissed at him, people don't care about border walls or Chinese tariffs anymore. The zeitgeist has changed and Trump has lost control of his base.

So you're saying that conservatives are going to vote for Biden because they're pissed at Trump?!  Of course not!  They will ensure that Trump pushes their agenda, and if he doesn't, they'll find someone else.  The problem is that there is no one on the Republican side to defeat Trump at the moment.

You ignore history, but everything we are watching now is no different than 50-60 years ago.  History might not repeat itself, but it surely does rhyme.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 16, 2020, 08:02:40 PM

I was one of the few people who actually spoke up when the Bush administration attacked Iraq even after the United Nations envoy showed that there were no nuclear materials in Iraq.  I was lambasted by almost every post on the MF BRK message board back then.  And I think Trump is a greater threat than Bush/Cheney ever were.  But Trump's base is much deeper than Bush/Cheney...they are hardcore and will do anything and everything he asks of them.  No justification needed!


This is one of the cringe-iest appeals to authority a person can make. "I was right about a political issue 17 years ago, therefore I am right again" its painful to read.

You are too removed from Trump's base to really understand it. Bush's base and Trump's base don't really care about them, it is more about how they embodied the conservative zeitgeist of their time, and that won them so much support. Once the zeitgeist changes, they fall apart, like Bush did at the end of his presidency amid the housing crash. Trump has fallen apart after Covid and the race riots. My entire family are Trump voters living in rural America. They are all pissed at him, people don't care about border walls or Chinese tariffs anymore. The zeitgeist has changed and Trump has lost control of his base.

So you're saying that conservatives are going to vote for Biden because they're pissed at Trump?!  Of course not!  They will ensure that Trump pushes their agenda, and if he doesn't, they'll find someone else.  The problem is that there is no one on the Republican side to defeat Trump at the moment.

You ignore history, but everything we are watching now is no different than 50-60 years ago.  History might not repeat itself, but it surely does rhyme.  Cheers!

The dems need to come up with someone better if they want to pull votes from Trump. They trashed their best candidate right from the start (Tulsi). She was the most classic democrat running. I also believe that she could have pulled from both sides of the aisle to some degree. At least better than anyone else.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Value^2 on August 17, 2020, 05:56:51 AM
It's crazy that they had guy like Bloomberg and they decided to go with Feeble-Joe.  He was clearly only one who could match Trump in terms of brain capacity. It shows how dims are all about identity politics, actual policies doesn't matter at all.



The dems need to come up with someone better if they want to pull votes from Trump. They trashed their best candidate right from the start (Tulsi). She was the most classic democrat running. I also believe that she could have pulled from both sides of the aisle to some degree. At least better than anyone else.

I agree what you said about Tulsi, but the thing is that, democratic-party hate all outsider candidates, One needs to be life long (corrupted political broiler) Washington insider, to can get their backing.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 06:30:08 AM
Oh man. Has anyone seen what that democracy destroying, election rigging bitch in NZ is doing to undermine and rig their elections? Using a measly couple covid cases as the excuse! I am outraged, as I imagine everyone else is at the idea of doing something so sinister and evil!


Obviously I am being sarcastic but I do hope in the name of consistently we see such outrage! Or at least get the usual flood of excuses about how "Its different with Trump"....especially from the Canucks!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 08:04:19 AM
The dems need to come up with someone better if they want to pull votes from Trump. They trashed their best candidate right from the start (Tulsi). She was the most classic democrat running. I also believe that she could have pulled from both sides of the aisle to some degree. At least better than anyone else.

(https://i.insider.com/56b0cf83dd089577688b4624?width=450&format=jpeg&auto=webp)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 08:23:49 AM
https://www.mediamatters.org/rush-limbaugh/rush-limbaugh-pushed-vile-sexist-smears-against-kamala-harris

Sounds like our very own on here. You stay classy, CoBF...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 08:34:04 AM
LOL, loving every minute of their new found identity candidate. Mention anything, that said candidate has done...things factually accurate and even acknowledged by said candidate....and then lemmings lick their lips and salivate over the opportunity to choose from any number of rebuttals from the identity politics playbook. Obviously, you must have a problem with "powerful women of color". LOL

Surprised this isn't a "false equivalency"! I wonder what next week's buzzword/theme will be!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 08:51:59 AM
Like I said, stay classy! Keep talking about the important stuff we should all care about like your sexist speculation on how Kamala (and many other successful women) made it in life! Like Rush, you do you!

Pandy? What pandy? USPS democracy being undermined? Not important enough to discuss, of course!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 09:04:44 AM
Like I said, stay classy! Keep talking about the important stuff we should all care about like your sexist speculation on how Kamala (and many other successful women) made it in life! Like Rush, you do you!

Pandy? What pandy? USPS democracy being undermined? Not important enough to discuss, of course!

LOL yes. SOOOOO sexist, mentioning anything a women has done(not to mention, admitted herself, to doing)...But when you do it, its not sexist...

So lets move to the "USPS's democracy" being undermined....whatever that means. Obviously, the democracy of the postal service is being threatened. FDX and UPS should certainly take precautions because clearly, they are next. What a tragedy it would be for the internal culture of our mail delivery service providers if they weren't democracies!

But on that tangential subject....why is it that any measure that involves an ounce of effort or brain, is considered detrimental to democrats and their voters? Need an ID to vote? Need to register? Have a felony? LOL I mean, obviously, anything involving, IDK, following the law, or getting off your ass, lifting a finger, taking 5 minutes to register or properly get an ID.....favors Republicans! Even though all of those tasks would apply to every voter equally....
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Cigarbutt on August 17, 2020, 09:25:22 AM
Oh man. Has anyone seen what that democracy destroying, election rigging bitch in NZ is doing to undermine and rig their elections? Using a measly couple covid cases as the excuse! I am outraged, as I imagine everyone else is at the idea of doing something so sinister and evil!
Obviously I am being sarcastic but I do hope in the name of consistently we see such outrage! Or at least get the usual flood of excuses about how "Its different with Trump"....especially from the Canucks!
FWIW i visit the political threads in order to improve an uneducated level of ignorance about the US situation and i wonder why some posts need to include offensive components.
i don't usually care about New Zealand or its politics but i just spent five minutes on it.
The election delay resulted from a transparent and inclusive discussion. The King: the voter, the ordinary democratic voter.
Who's the King in the US?
Concerning the leader, what do i know but she does seem to care about the ordinary people, the intrinsic fabric of society:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113615588/prime-minister-whips-up-treats-and-becomes-a-good-bitch-for-the-day
When using the nickname "Canucks", it could be affectionate or insulting and i wonder why some people would aim to exploit the grey area.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 09:34:39 AM
Oh man. Has anyone seen what that democracy destroying, election rigging bitch in NZ is doing to undermine and rig their elections? Using a measly couple covid cases as the excuse! I am outraged, as I imagine everyone else is at the idea of doing something so sinister and evil!
Obviously I am being sarcastic but I do hope in the name of consistently we see such outrage! Or at least get the usual flood of excuses about how "Its different with Trump"....especially from the Canucks!
When using the nickname "Canucks", it could be affectionate or insulting and i wonder why some people would aim to exploit the grey area.

The grey area helps shield these folks and secretly communicate with the folks who think just like they do (wink, wink Kamala is “ineligible” to be VP...). They like innuendo like their Master Trump. “I heard from a reliable source, I don’t know if it’s true or not” because it allows them to get away with less than classy behavior.

And yeah, he may have chosen that B word for the female politician, but he’s clearly joking or “being sarcastic”—just like his master when discussing the merits of intravenous bleach therapy!

And then when a moderator steps in, he’ll whine about discrimination against his conservative beliefs that drives his right to refer (“joke”) about women that way!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 09:47:55 AM
Oh man. Has anyone seen what that democracy destroying, election rigging bitch in NZ is doing to undermine and rig their elections? Using a measly couple covid cases as the excuse! I am outraged, as I imagine everyone else is at the idea of doing something so sinister and evil!
Obviously I am being sarcastic but I do hope in the name of consistently we see such outrage! Or at least get the usual flood of excuses about how "Its different with Trump"....especially from the Canucks!
FWIW i visit the political threads in order to improve an uneducated level of ignorance about the US situation and i wonder why some posts need to include offensive components.
i don't usually care about New Zealand or its politics but i just spent five minutes on it.
The election delay resulted from a transparent and inclusive discussion. The King: the voter, the ordinary democratic voter.
Who's the King in the US?
Concerning the leader, what do i know but she does seem to care about the ordinary people, the intrinsic fabric of society:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113615588/prime-minister-whips-up-treats-and-becomes-a-good-bitch-for-the-day
When using the nickname "Canucks", it could be affectionate or insulting and i wonder why some people would aim to exploit the grey area.

As you've(I think) picked up on before, often this is not by accident. There's plenty of "hypocrite hooks" in much of what I write, when it comes to the politics. You look at all the obviously partisan, subjective, manipulated mumbo jumbo some of these folks spew, the vitriol espoused, specifically with regard to certain people or sides of the political argument....and its just all too tempting to throw them a bone and say "why not here?". The same folks, continue to gut themselves on the hook. The hypocrites easily get exposed when the outrage is continuously exposed as partisan and the "concern" just as obviously fake.

I dont think one needs an English degree to see the majority of posts are riddled with sarcasm; mocking this sort of behavior....As far as the Canuck thing...Ive been called a Yankee before. Same as with that, one should have no issue circling in on the broader meaning of what is entailed(IE Yankee=East Coast American, Canuck=Canadian), if its chosen to read more or less into what more/less it may/may not "mean"...I personally dont care to do that, nor see any productive purpose in it.....but to each their own. Provided you dont call me a "Redskin"...only certain sports team names are appropriate!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 09:56:02 AM
Case in point the one above....the badmouthing, denigrating remarks about people on one side of the isle, but then swallows the hypocrite hook when similar attitudes are expressed about "his side"...when if being objective, he/she/they should either be equally outraged, or acknowledge, that he/she/they is not really outraged at all. But when you pick and choose, and the pattern/rhyme reason is as blatant as it is....well, thats a fraud and a hypocrite. We can criticize one candidate for personal behaviors and its fine and dandy. Criticise the other side...and its "sexist", "racist", etc(whatever the flavor or the week label is). You can "suggest" delaying an election, and its outrage and a threat to democracy, but then when someone else does it, crickets and calm, all is OK! After all, it must be a false equivalency!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 17, 2020, 10:10:41 AM
Oh man. Has anyone seen what that democracy destroying, election rigging bitch in NZ is doing to undermine and rig their elections? Using a measly couple covid cases as the excuse! I am outraged, as I imagine everyone else is at the idea of doing something so sinister and evil!
Obviously I am being sarcastic but I do hope in the name of consistently we see such outrage! Or at least get the usual flood of excuses about how "Its different with Trump"....especially from the Canucks!
FWIW i visit the political threads in order to improve an uneducated level of ignorance about the US situation and i wonder why some posts need to include offensive components.
i don't usually care about New Zealand or its politics but i just spent five minutes on it.
The election delay resulted from a transparent and inclusive discussion. The King: the voter, the ordinary democratic voter.
Who's the King in the US?
Concerning the leader, what do i know but she does seem to care about the ordinary people, the intrinsic fabric of society:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113615588/prime-minister-whips-up-treats-and-becomes-a-good-bitch-for-the-day
When using the nickname "Canucks", it could be affectionate or insulting and i wonder why some people would aim to exploit the grey area.

As you've(I think) picked up on before, often this is not by accident. There's plenty of "hypocrite hooks" in much of what I write, when it comes to the politics. You look at all the obviously partisan, subjective, manipulated mumbo jumbo some of these folks spew, the vitriol espoused, specifically with regard to certain people or sides of the political argument....and its just all too tempting to throw them a bone and say "why not here?". The same folks, continue to gut themselves on the hook. The hypocrites easily get exposed when the outrage is continuously exposed as partisan and the "concern" just as obviously fake.

I dont think one needs an English degree to see the majority of posts are riddled with sarcasm; mocking this sort of behavior....As far as the Canuck thing...Ive been called a Yankee before. Same as with that, one should have no issue circling in on the broader meaning of what is entailed(IE Yankee=East Coast American, Canuck=Canadian), if its chosen to read more or less into what more/less it may/may not "mean"...I personally dont care to do that, nor see any productive purpose in it.....but to each their own. Provided you dont call me a "Redskin"...only certain sports team names are appropriate!
So did Gregmal finally admit to being a troll?
At the very least he just admitted to the marjority of his posts being disingenuous, sarcastic, mocking and to intentionally laying traps for other members of the community.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 10:10:53 AM
Concerning the leader, what do i know but she does seem to care about the ordinary people, the intrinsic fabric of society:

I agree the decision largely seems consistent with her other actions to date. Perhaps "overreactions", but nonetheless, consistent. Flip that around though, and then wouldn't such "overreactions" as called for by many, consistently, over and over in the Covid thread, be consistent with the thought that the election being delayed "might" make sense? Or that, for instance, the government response has been scattered, inconsistent, and not "serious" enough, and they continue to call for "more seriousness" in the approach. So when a "more serious" approach is taken, IE suggest(not even implement as was the case in NZ) a delay to the election(makes even more sense when you look at what a disaster NYC recently was with their voting) these people again flip flop again and pretend to be outraged! After all, they are mind readers and thats why when one side does something they know "exactly" what they were thinking and can be appalled, whereas when their side does it, they "know" it was benevolent. Just like Joe Biden/Bill Clinton's #metoo accusers!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 10:14:09 AM
Oh man. Has anyone seen what that democracy destroying, election rigging bitch in NZ is doing to undermine and rig their elections? Using a measly couple covid cases as the excuse! I am outraged, as I imagine everyone else is at the idea of doing something so sinister and evil!
Obviously I am being sarcastic but I do hope in the name of consistently we see such outrage! Or at least get the usual flood of excuses about how "Its different with Trump"....especially from the Canucks!
FWIW i visit the political threads in order to improve an uneducated level of ignorance about the US situation and i wonder why some posts need to include offensive components.
i don't usually care about New Zealand or its politics but i just spent five minutes on it.
The election delay resulted from a transparent and inclusive discussion. The King: the voter, the ordinary democratic voter.
Who's the King in the US?
Concerning the leader, what do i know but she does seem to care about the ordinary people, the intrinsic fabric of society:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113615588/prime-minister-whips-up-treats-and-becomes-a-good-bitch-for-the-day
When using the nickname "Canucks", it could be affectionate or insulting and i wonder why some people would aim to exploit the grey area.

As you've(I think) picked up on before, often this is not by accident. There's plenty of "hypocrite hooks" in much of what I write, when it comes to the politics. You look at all the obviously partisan, subjective, manipulated mumbo jumbo some of these folks spew, the vitriol espoused, specifically with regard to certain people or sides of the political argument....and its just all too tempting to throw them a bone and say "why not here?". The same folks, continue to gut themselves on the hook. The hypocrites easily get exposed when the outrage is continuously exposed as partisan and the "concern" just as obviously fake.

I dont think one needs an English degree to see the majority of posts are riddled with sarcasm; mocking this sort of behavior....As far as the Canuck thing...Ive been called a Yankee before. Same as with that, one should have no issue circling in on the broader meaning of what is entailed(IE Yankee=East Coast American, Canuck=Canadian), if its chosen to read more or less into what more/less it may/may not "mean"...I personally dont care to do that, nor see any productive purpose in it.....but to each their own. Provided you dont call me a "Redskin"...only certain sports team names are appropriate!
So did Gregmal finally admit to being a troll?
At the very least he just admitted to the marjority of his posts being disingenuous, sarcastic, mocking and to intentionally laying traps for other members of the community.

If you are a fraud, hypocrite, or logically inconsistent, you will get hung up on, or regularly entangled in a lot of what I write in the politics section, yes. It is meant to mock those people. If you are consistent with your application of "taking offense" or calling out bad behavior, then it should not be bothersome. So, your choice....
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Cigarbutt on August 17, 2020, 10:20:29 AM
Concerning the leader, what do i know but she does seem to care about the ordinary people, the intrinsic fabric of society:
I agree the decision largely seems consistent with her other actions to date. Perhaps "overreactions", but nonetheless, consistent. Flip that around though, and then wouldn't such "overreactions" as called for by many, consistently, over and over in the Covid thread, be consistent with the thought that the election being delayed "might" make sense? Or that, for instance, the government response has been scattered, inconsistent, and not "serious" enough, and they continue to call for "more seriousness" in the approach. So when a "more serious" approach is taken, IE suggest(not even implement as was the case in NZ) a delay to the election(makes even more sense when you look at what a disaster NYC recently was with their voting) these people again flip flop again and pretend to be outraged! After all, they are mind readers and thats why when one side does something they know "exactly" what they were thinking and can be appalled, whereas when their side does it, they "know" it was benevolent. Just like Joe Biden/Bill Clinton's #metoo accusers!
OK. Thanks for the explanation. Let's use the container and content approach.
Let's say (assume) you win the container aspect so there's no need to 'blast' the 'other' side.
Can you help more with content? (content only)
How is the New Zealand leader rigging the election process (from a democratic point of view)?
How is that similar or different to what may happen in your country?
My welfare as a resident in a country that's been compared to an apartment lying on top of a meth lab depends on it.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 17, 2020, 10:25:41 AM
Informative to know what exactly transpired in NZ:

Quote
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, who has the sole authority to determine when people cast ballots, said she had consulted with all the major parties before delaying the vote, originally scheduled for Sept. 19, to Oct. 17.

Ms. Ardern called the decision a compromise that “provides sufficient time for parties to plan around the range of circumstances we could be campaigning under, for the electoral commission to prepare and for voters to feel assured of a safe, accessible and critical election.”

She also ruled out further change. Even if the outbreak worsens, she said, “we will be sticking with the date we have.”

The leaders of other major parties also argued that the Level 3 lockdown in Auckland, the country’s largest city, prevented campaigning and would have made a free and fair election impossible on the original date.

Winston Peters, the deputy prime minister and leader of the New Zealand First Party, Ms. Ardern’s coalition partner, said in a letter to Ms. Ardern last week that until the alert level dropped in Auckland, the “playing field is hopelessly compromised.”

The National Party’s leader, Judith Collins, has said that she would prefer that the election be moved to next year, which would require approval from 75 percent of Parliament.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/world/asia/new-zealand-election-coronavirus.html
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 10:36:23 AM
Informative to know what exactly transpired in NZ:

Consider context? Blasphemy! We use the example of other countries when it suits us (but please don’t compare USA to NZ when it comes to covid!).

And what better time to “reform” the USPS than 75 days from a major election where I happen to be running and will disproportionately benefit from voter suppression? Clearly a whole “nothing burger”! This Trump guy has a long history of being selfless and not acting in self interest, so can we just please give him the benefit of the doubt?

Can we talk about that female VP candidate’s romantic history instead plz? Much more relevant to my life than some dumb pandy and subversion of democracy!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 10:41:03 AM
Concerning the leader, what do i know but she does seem to care about the ordinary people, the intrinsic fabric of society:
I agree the decision largely seems consistent with her other actions to date. Perhaps "overreactions", but nonetheless, consistent. Flip that around though, and then wouldn't such "overreactions" as called for by many, consistently, over and over in the Covid thread, be consistent with the thought that the election being delayed "might" make sense? Or that, for instance, the government response has been scattered, inconsistent, and not "serious" enough, and they continue to call for "more seriousness" in the approach. So when a "more serious" approach is taken, IE suggest(not even implement as was the case in NZ) a delay to the election(makes even more sense when you look at what a disaster NYC recently was with their voting) these people again flip flop again and pretend to be outraged! After all, they are mind readers and thats why when one side does something they know "exactly" what they were thinking and can be appalled, whereas when their side does it, they "know" it was benevolent. Just like Joe Biden/Bill Clinton's #metoo accusers!
OK. Thanks for the explanation. Let's use the container and content approach.
Let's say (assume) you win the container aspect so there's no need to 'blast' the 'other' side.
Can you help more with content? (content only)
How is the New Zealand leader rigging the election process (from a democratic point of view)?
How is that similar or different to what may happen in your country?
My welfare as a resident in a country that's been compared to an apartment lying on top of a meth lab depends on it.

I personally, dont think either approach would lead to a "rigging" of an election or an upending of democracy. Look at Putins never-ending rewriting of the term limits as an example of that. I would "suggest"(based on personal opinions again) that the young lady in NZ is a much more benevolent person, than Donald Trump(who at best, only cares about his base or maybe those who can potentially become part of it). That said, it is possible, for both to come to the same conclusion. Buying more time has proven indisputably valuable in terms of dealing with the virus. So a delay, regardless of who does it, is probably understandable and reasonable(For the record, I dont see any reason to delay either election, but can see why they may feel otherwise). Neither would really be a threat to democracy, but certainly, its hard to see how one can be, while the other cant. That is, assuming you remove the imbedded political narratives. Is there confidence states can have the competency(or desire) to make the process smooth and unadulterated otherwise? Again, look at NYCs recent failures with that.

If you want a clean and non controversial election(in theory, with respect to the current situation), your best bet is to probably postpone for a short while and really make sure everything is in order. In reality, whatever is done will be contested and complained about, so just get the damn thing over with as its always been scheduled and done...and move on.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 10:44:41 AM

Can we talk about that female VP candidate’s romantic history instead plz? Much more relevant to my life than some dumb pandy and subversion of democracy!

Says the guy(on behalf of plenty of others of his type) who have spent half a decade talking about, among other things, the "other" candidate's romantic history.....I know, totally different. False equivalency....Trump paid his partners, Kamala got paid....he was 30 years older and she was 30 years younger....totally different!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 10:56:46 AM

Can we talk about that female VP candidate’s romantic history instead plz? Much more relevant to my life than some dumb pandy and subversion of democracy!

Says the guy(on behalf of plenty of others of his type) who have spent half a decade talking about, among other things, the "other" candidate's romantic history.....I know, totally different. False equivalency....Trump paid his partners, Kamala got paid....he was 30 years older and she was 30 years younger....totally different!

Lol, Trump having > 20 accusers of sexual assault (on Harvey’s level, “grabs women”) is the same and as relevant as Kamala having a consensual relationship in the past! This guy makes fun of false equivalency but does not understand one iota of it!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 11:02:23 AM

Can we talk about that female VP candidate’s romantic history instead plz? Much more relevant to my life than some dumb pandy and subversion of democracy!

Says the guy(on behalf of plenty of others of his type) who have spent half a decade talking about, among other things, the "other" candidate's romantic history.....I know, totally different. False equivalency....Trump paid his partners, Kamala got paid....he was 30 years older and she was 30 years younger....totally different!

Lol, Trump having > 20 accusers of sexual assault (on Harvey’s level, “grabs women”) is the same and as relevant as Kamala having a consensual relationship in the past! This guy makes fun of false equivalency but does not understand one iota of it!

You see, this would be comparable to Biden's metoo accusers and your hypocritical approach to them. Not your focus on one candidates romantic encounters, while ignoring the others....but go on. Another false equivalency right? When in doubt, shift the story!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Cigarbutt on August 17, 2020, 11:40:40 AM
Has anyone seen what that democracy destroying, election rigging bitch in NZ is doing to undermine and rig their elections? 
...
After a few questions asking to focus on content...
...
I personally, dont think either approach would lead to a "rigging" of an election or an upending of democracy.
So i get it that this has essentially entertainment value (depending on how one values entertainment).
i understand that you like hockey. You may know that one of the most valuable sports franchise, The Montreal Canadiens, is often called, as a team, The "Habs". The story behind this is interesting and it is related to the reason why my province motto is "I remember".
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Schwab711 on August 17, 2020, 11:57:53 AM
Trump admin endorsing Biden

https://twitter.com/RVAT2020/status/1295428133391413248
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 12:00:24 PM

Can we talk about that female VP candidate’s romantic history instead plz? Much more relevant to my life than some dumb pandy and subversion of democracy!

Says the guy(on behalf of plenty of others of his type) who have spent half a decade talking about, among other things, the "other" candidate's romantic history.....I know, totally different. False equivalency....Trump paid his partners, Kamala got paid....he was 30 years older and she was 30 years younger....totally different!

Lol, Trump having > 20 accusers of sexual assault (on Harvey’s level, “grabs women”) is the same and as relevant as Kamala having a consensual relationship in the past! This guy makes fun of false equivalency but does not understand one iota of it!

You see, this would be comparable to Biden's metoo accusers and your hypocritical approach to them. Not your focus on one candidates romantic encounters, while ignoring the others....but go on. Another false equivalency right? When in doubt, shift the story!

Biden just like Trump on accusers? Another false equivalency or just plain attempt to mislead (probably the latter)! This guy never stops! What Trump behavior will he try to justify next? If it’s not sexual assault or racist jabs (dur that one dem said McCain was ineligible too !) or corruption (dur Warren G Harding was just as corrupt!)

https://www.businessinsider.com/women-accused-trump-sexual-misconduct-list-2017-12

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tara-reade-isnt-ready-to-respond-to-biden-sexual-harrassment-denial-11588454993

What’s the probability all 25 of Trump’s accusers are “liars” ? Remember, he “grabs them”.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 12:06:36 PM
Maybe we can just list all of Trump’s sins and then come up with a liberal who committed each one throughout history to justify all this behavior in a single man who happens to be President.

Or maybe we can listen to what former business partners and folks like McCain, Romney, and Mattis have to say about the guy—your choice!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 12:09:24 PM

Can we talk about that female VP candidate’s romantic history instead plz? Much more relevant to my life than some dumb pandy and subversion of democracy!


HA!!! And now he/she/they are back to talking about a candidate's romantic history! Cant make this stuff up...

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 12:15:24 PM

Can we talk about that female VP candidate’s romantic history instead plz? Much more relevant to my life than some dumb pandy and subversion of democracy!


HA!!! And now he/she/they are back to talking about a candidate's romantic history! Cant make this stuff up...

Mr. Deflector! Pretend like it never happened! Trump accused of wha by how many?? Let’s talk about something else guys...

Apparently “sexual assault” equates to “romantic history” for some...

Maybe this time Joe can bring all of Don’s accusers to the debate!!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 12:21:53 PM

Can we talk about that female VP candidate’s romantic history instead plz? Much more relevant to my life than some dumb pandy and subversion of democracy!


HA!!! And now he/she/they are back to talking about a candidate's romantic history! Cant make this stuff up...

Mr. Deflector! Pretend like it never happened! Trump accused of wha by how many?? Let’s talk about something else guys...

Apparently “sexual assault” equates to “romantic history” for some...

Where has Trump ever been found guilty of sexual assault? In America(I know you hate it) people are innocent until proven guilty. Anyone can make a "claim" as we saw with all those jokers during the Kavanaugh hearing, especially when it comes to you deranged liberals. Of course, Trumps "accusers" should be believed and he's obviously guilty, but Bidens arent credible because clearly he's innocent. And Trumps consensual but skeezeball encounters are fair game, but Kamala's arent. Oh by the way, another one just came to light today about Joe...but he probably doesnt remember it....And on and on he/she/they goes....
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 12:47:38 PM

Can we talk about that female VP candidate’s romantic history instead plz? Much more relevant to my life than some dumb pandy and subversion of democracy!


HA!!! And now he/she/they are back to talking about a candidate's romantic history! Cant make this stuff up...

Mr. Deflector! Pretend like it never happened! Trump accused of wha by how many?? Let’s talk about something else guys...

Apparently “sexual assault” equates to “romantic history” for some...

Where has Trump ever been found guilty of sexual assault? In America(I know you hate it) people are innocent until proven guilty. Anyone can make a "claim" as we saw with all those jokers during the Kavanaugh hearing, especially when it comes to you deranged liberals. Of course, Trumps "accusers" should be believed and he's obviously guilty, but Bidens arent credible because clearly he's innocent. And Trumps consensual but skeezeball encounters are fair game, but Kamala's arent. Oh by the way, another one just came to light today about Joe...but he probably doesnt remember it....And on and on he/she/they goes....

Sociopath’s defender says what?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 17, 2020, 12:56:09 PM
Trump admin endorsing Biden

https://twitter.com/RVAT2020/status/1295428133391413248
This one is kind of chilling.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 17, 2020, 01:03:30 PM

Can we talk about that female VP candidate’s romantic history instead plz? Much more relevant to my life than some dumb pandy and subversion of democracy!


HA!!! And now he/she/they are back to talking about a candidate's romantic history! Cant make this stuff up...

No one cares about these candidates sex lives - hell, look at serial womanizer Bill Clinton. He actually was a decent President - and that's what counts.
Trump's supporters could give a shit about Trump's sex life - we want a real leader - not many of these candidates are saints.

In regards to Biden/Harris - they are DONE.  This is the highpoint of their campaign. Everyone knows that Biden is a figurehead and empty suit,
although he's a nice enough guy that most of Washington loves. But American's know the real President will be Kamala - and given her
record of flip-flopping and being a flagrant lefty - she's never going to get elected.

Kamala is ON RECORD as a co-sponsor of the Green New Deal (bye-bye energy independence for the USA - no more fracking)
ON RECORD for open borders and full medicare benefits for Illegal Immigrants
ON RECORD for Reparations

Once Americans become familiar with Kamala and her political stances - she is TOAST.

Kamala's big advantage right now is that the average American knows little about her. The less they know, the more they will like her...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 17, 2020, 01:16:22 PM
It's crazy that they had guy like Bloomberg and they decided to go with Feeble-Joe.  He was clearly only one who could match Trump in terms of brain capacity. It shows how dims are all about identity politics, actual policies doesn't matter at all.



The dems need to come up with someone better if they want to pull votes from Trump. They trashed their best candidate right from the start (Tulsi). She was the most classic democrat running. I also believe that she could have pulled from both sides of the aisle to some degree. At least better than anyone else.

I agree what you said about Tulsi, but the thing is that, democratic-party hate all outsider candidates, One needs to be life long (corrupted political broiler) Washington insider, to can get their backing.

That's really the key point here:  The Democrats have learned NOTHING from the 2016 election. They want a Washington Insider - and the American
people DO NOT.

The Republican Party tried the same BS in 2016 - 18 great candidates that Trump steamrolled.  Most of the Republican Party was dragged kicking
and screaming into The Party of the People - all except the NEVER TRUMPERS of course, Romney, Kasich, Paul Ryan, etc.
Those guys are DONE.

The Republican Party has been remade - however, it appears the Democratic Party needs to be destroyed by the LEFT, before it can be remade.


Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 03:06:32 PM
Trump admin endorsing Biden

https://twitter.com/RVAT2020/status/1295428133391413248
This one is kind of chilling.

Nothing to see here, just like Col Vindman, Sessions, Tillerson, Mattis, John Kelly, etc. We should just trust the sociopath’s enablers, not the consensus from those who have worked with him and seen the disaster up close.

His enablers are convinced they have a slam dunk coming in November—after all, he won with a stunning margin of negative 3 million votes nationwide and by mere tens of thousands in PA, WI, and MI. A margin of safety! Yes, he has done such a good job these past 4 years that it’s going to be “so easy” for him. That’s why he’s messing with the mail, of course!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 03:23:30 PM
LOL My oh my. They talk about revisionist history. But then theres they way they behave and things they spew!

Pre 2016 election

Libtards/MSM- Hillary is a slam dunk, Trump has no chance. Look at the polls!

Gregmal- Trump will win, idiots. But he'll be a one term president


Russia Investigation

Libtards/MSM- Smoking gun that will bring down Trump

Gregmal- Nope


Ukraine Nonsense

Libtards/MSM- Theyre going to kick him out of office

Gregmal- They dont have the numbers in the Senate, fools.


COVID 19

Libtards/MSM- end of the world. Liquidity crisis, stocks going down significantly, worse than Great Depression!

Gregmal- no, it's not. Buy quality companies


2020 election

Libtards/MSM- Trump's trying to steal the election! The only way he wins is if he cheats! He's trying to make it hard to vote by mail, OMG!

Gregmal- Trump is still likely a one term president, but the horrible quality of candidates and 4 year track record of crying wolf leaves you guys wide open to letting him win again, in which case you'll fully get what you deserve, for not having learned from your mistakes and own arrogance.



How many times do we have to do this?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 03:30:11 PM
LOL My oh my. They talk about revisionist history. But then theres they way they behave and things they spew!

Pre 2016 election

Libtards/MSM- Hillary is a slam dunk, Trump has no chance. Look at the polls!

Gregmal- Trump will win, idiots. But he'll be a one term president


Russia Investigation

Libtards/MSM- Smoking gun that will bring down Trump

Gregmal- Nope


Ukraine Nonsense

Libtards/MSM- Theyre going to kick him out of office

Gregmal- They dont have the numbers in the Senate, fools.


COVID 19

Libtards/MSM- end of the world. Liquidity crisis, stocks going down significantly, worse than Great Depression!

Gregmal- no, it's not. Buy quality companies


2020 election

Libtards/MSM- Trump's trying to steal the election! The only way he wins is if he cheats! He's trying to make it hard to vote by mail, OMG!

Gregmal- Trump is still likely a one term president, but the horrible quality of candidates and 4 year track record of crying wolf leaves you guys wide open to letting him win again, in which case you'll fully get what you deserve, for not having learned from your mistakes and own arrogance.



How many times do we have to do this?

Lol, it gets better! In his mind he’s Nostradamus!! Sounds like a bad comic book series: “Gregmal vs libtards” Hahahahaa

Oh yeah and you totally nailed covid!!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 03:37:25 PM
As one who has claimed to "only talk about stocks I own" but talks quite a bit in the Tesla thread despite "no longer owning the stock"...I am sure you can see that with certain types...the pouty, emotionally invested, and varyingly deranged, like TSLAQ, when you are consistently wrong, over, and over, and over again with respect to a certain topic/subject...Perhaps just learn to STFU. That sounds like most of the lefty/MSM fellows over the past half decade with their Trump predictions and poutings. LOLz indeed!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 03:39:28 PM
As one who has claimed to only "only talk about stocks I own" but talks quite a bit in the Tesla thread despite "no longer owning the stock"...I am sure you can see that with certain types...the pouty, emotionally invested, and varyingly deranged, like TSLAQ, when you are consistently wrong, over, and over, and over again with respect to a certain topic/subject...Perhaps just learn to STFU. That sounds like most of the lefty/MSM fellows over the past half decade with their Trump predictions and poutings. LOLz indeed!

Deflect, deflect, deflect! You are a stable genius who has foreseen all just like your hero! It was a hoax first but then 170k died but stonks are up so no big deal and my own people are safe so I don’t care. “I’m very smart, the scientists ask me ‘how do you know so much Mr President?’” Give this man an honorary degree from Trump University!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 03:41:43 PM
Remember go to cash, sell everything! Dalal? Great Depression, right Dalal? Remember, "I hope you and your kind are invested in the market" in April, Dalal? Outside of what? Suggesting covid cases/deaths in absolute numbers would increase....its hard to really say you got anything right. But whats new. I'm sure you've been busy editing/deleting/rewriting your old posts. Right? Doctor who isn't a doctor, but is a doctor, but doesnt owe it to anyone to admit what his profession is, but who actually is a doctor but won't tell anyone what type? LOLOLOLOL
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 03:52:59 PM
And while you're at it, "I dont waste my time responding to them"...remember? Or "I'm moving on! COBF deserves the analysis it gets!" pout, pout! Remember Dalal?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 03:57:24 PM
Remember go to cash, sell everything! Dalal? Great Depression, right Dalal? Remember, "I hope you and your kind are invested in the market" in April, Dalal? Outside of what? Suggesting covid cases/deaths in absolute numbers would increase....its hard to really say you got anything right. But whats new. I'm sure you've been busy editing/deleting/rewriting your old posts. Right? Doctor who isn't a doctor, but is a doctor, but doesnt owe it to anyone to admit what his profession is, but who actually is a doctor but won't tell anyone what type? LOLOLOLOL

Oh no can’t defend daddy sociopath anymore or justify any of your beliefs so resort to personal attacks! Just like daddy. But please don’t moderate him and his conservative self expression!

If this country was filled with people like this we’d certainly be great. He’s been right about everything including that rumor about NY doctors labeling gunshots as covid deaths and how this has all been no big deal virus because his people are safe and stocks are up anyway. And he refused to wear a mask or “halloween costume” as he called it months ago. If only if more Americans thought like he does when they were called to action throughout history! USA surely on the path to greatness thanks to such proud behavior.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 17, 2020, 04:05:16 PM
And while you're at it, "I dont waste my time responding to them"...remember? Or "I'm moving on! COBF deserves the analysis it gets!" pout, pout! Remember Dalal?

Yes, maybe I should leave you in the politics section unopposed so that you can continue to spew nonsense and tell non-Americans that their opinions on your savior don’t  matter!

I do get a taste of what it’s like in here and what a significant chunk of your time dwelling in here must be like, and it ain’t pretty at the end of the day.

Good luck fighting them “libtards” and standing up for your poor oppressed sociopathic Presidente! You can tell your grandkids about your valiant efforts during these times (well, you’ll rewrite these events in a more positive light anyway)!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 04:30:12 PM
Remember go to cash, sell everything! Dalal? Great Depression, right Dalal? Remember, "I hope you and your kind are invested in the market" in April, Dalal? Outside of what? Suggesting covid cases/deaths in absolute numbers would increase....its hard to really say you got anything right. But whats new. I'm sure you've been busy editing/deleting/rewriting your old posts. Right? Doctor who isn't a doctor, but is a doctor, but doesnt owe it to anyone to admit what his profession is, but who actually is a doctor but won't tell anyone what type? LOLOLOLOL

Oh no can’t defend daddy sociopath anymore or justify any of your beliefs so resort to personal attacks! Just like daddy. But please don’t moderate him and his conservative self expression!

If this country was filled with people like this we’d certainly be great. He’s been right about everything including that rumor about NY doctors labeling gunshots as covid deaths and how this has all been no big deal virus because his people are safe and stocks are up anyway. And he refused to wear a mask or “halloween costume” as he called it months ago. If only if more Americans thought like he does when they were called to action throughout history! USA surely on the path to greatness thanks to such proud behavior.

LOL very few of your fabrications are things Ive actually said. Remember, I dont go modifying my posts after the fact, like you do, so theyre all there, for everyone to see, the good and the bad, the correct and the incorrect. As a reminder, here's one of my posts....


Too early to tell with precision, but I wonder what the impact of China’s high air pollution levels and high smoking levels (esp. men) have on complication probability for a pulmonary disease, and whether places without those negative cofactors can do significantly better.

https://twitter.com/libertyrpf/status/1233769248209678336?s=21

Interesting, but the more interesting tweet I found was a couple below posting a link to this.

https://www.stlouisfed.org/~/media/files/pdfs/community-development/research-reports/pandemic_flu_report.pdf

Guess what happened next in the 20's?

But again, I can see how it is human and market nature to always assume the worst and then work backwards. As a historian myself, my application of understanding in situations like this, has always been to bet against the worst case scenario. If nothing else, you have the entire populations of politicians and bankers and experts working on your side. Similarly, how many people, even in a scenario like 2008, bet on failure and ended up losing? Getting squeezed out of shorts. Having insolvent counter parties? Seeing the Fed take actions that wiped out their bets? People like Peter Schiff who "called it" and still lost 80% that year. People who bought at the highs in 2007 and held tight in fact, did better than most of the doomsdayers.

The other arm of analysis, is, how far should this drag things down. People have mentioned a liquidity crisis, but as long as the Fed is where it is, I dont see that. Further, company profitability is not being zapped to 0, so couple this with the insanely low rates, and that debt markets certainly arent "closing". Demand in fact, should increase for issues from qualified borrowers, especially if the bond guys deem an economic seize up to be temporary. Basically just a bridge loan. If you are a shitty E&P or mining company, sure, but I'd gander 95% of S&P companies would have zero problem issuing debt.

So if we can eliminate liquidity induced plummet, then we have what? Just a recession to worry about. Is it possible we see Great Depression type stuff. I suppose, but probably not. Quantify what a temporary recession should do to the broader market... maybe comparable to something in the 70's or early 90s... but, most of those were greatly enhanced by energy/oil related issues and inflation, neither of which are really on the horizon here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stock_market_crashes_and_bear_markets

Which one prior haven't we recovered from? Most were really just temporary shocks, similar to this, and exacerbated by program trading.

Further, at least here, plenty of investors prior to February, were cautious or paring down their exposure because of "valuation" concerns... in November, December, January, etc. We can call the recent rise a "blow off top", but I think thats silly considering that a 10% rise over a half year stretch isn't really a blow off top, nor did it take us anywhere that extreme compared to market levels back in 2018 or 2019. From late 2017 S&P ~2650. So from that point to today that "market" has blown off a whopping 5% annually? An 8% return would take us back to roughly were we were in January. Just because people have been crying about valuation for a long time doesnt mean it was true. Generally speaking, the "broader markets" are relatively efficient. I myself have had plenty of stocks where Ive pounded the table and said the valuation didn't make sense, but was ultimately just WRONG. Same can be said here.

The biggest issue I see right now is that the smart guys cant really calculate/model the impacts here so they're just throwing everything away. Still yet, I haven't really seen any of the fear driven people say where exactly the market should crash to or what levels it should now trade at. In fact, dare I say the value guys now just sound like momentum investors because "the trend is down". Again indicative of the above, and that fear is blinding.


What have you been right about again? Or contributed? A bunch of head scratching aphorisms about eating vegetables and wearing a seatbelt? A few self serving tweets? LOL and oh yea, a bunch of stupid charts... Move along now.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 17, 2020, 04:36:37 PM
I assume we're all invited to the wedding.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Parsad on August 17, 2020, 06:32:42 PM

Can we talk about that female VP candidate’s romantic history instead plz? Much more relevant to my life than some dumb pandy and subversion of democracy!


HA!!! And now he/she/they are back to talking about a candidate's romantic history! Cant make this stuff up...

Greg, let's talk about the irony of Trump's win. 

If I only said to you that this candidate is a Republican, but he's been married three times, has numerous girlfriends, including prostitutes, and has in the past groped women...would you guys consider him a potential runner in the next election?  Oh, he's God-fearing, but rarely goes to church and could not name a single passage from the Bible.  He may also be dyslexic, corrupt, will probably hire most of his family, and will destroy most of our global relationships.  He's also a chronic liar and narcissist. 

Republicans would ask..."Is he black?"

Response:  "No."

Republicans:  "Is he against the NRA?"

Response:  "No, he's a member."

Republicans:  "Good to go!"

Cheers!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 17, 2020, 10:31:55 PM

Can we talk about that female VP candidate’s romantic history instead plz? Much more relevant to my life than some dumb pandy and subversion of democracy!


HA!!! And now he/she/they are back to talking about a candidate's romantic history! Cant make this stuff up...

Greg, let's talk about the irony of Trump's win. 

If I only said to you that this candidate is a Republican, but he's been married three times, has numerous girlfriends, including prostitutes, and has in the past groped women...would you guys consider him a potential runner in the next election?  Oh, he's God-fearing, but rarely goes to church and could not name a single passage from the Bible.  He may also be dyslexic, corrupt, will probably hire most of his family, and will destroy most of our global relationships.  He's also a chronic liar and narcissist. 

Republicans would ask..."Is he black?"

Response:  "No."

Republicans:  "Is he against the NRA?"

Response:  "No, he's a member."

Republicans:  "Good to go!"

Cheers!

Republicans would ask: Is it a Clinton?

The rest of us: Well, there you go!

Ive stated numerous times, Trump is far, far from a perfect candidate. But he's what we have to fend off the crazies. If I told you:

Your current candidate is an establishment politician.

You: OK

He's perpetuated discrimination

You:  Ehhh..I guess I can live with that

He's been one of the largest proponents of incarceration

You: Well, not exactly what we need right now, but ok.

He's running off of "I am Obama .75"

You: Better than Trump

He forgot that he's running for President

You: WTF

He picked a luny tune socialist as his running mate

You: ehhhhh

Robin Williams mocked him over a decade ago for being out of his mind and making druggies look sane

You: ehhhh


Thats the alternative! Can you believe this shit? I have stated many times, I'd vote for a better alternative. I'd vote for Howard Schultz. I'd vote for Mike Bloomberg. Or Tulsi Gabbard. But no, this! is what they present us with lol! Come the fuck on!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Parsad on August 17, 2020, 10:53:56 PM

Can we talk about that female VP candidate’s romantic history instead plz? Much more relevant to my life than some dumb pandy and subversion of democracy!


HA!!! And now he/she/they are back to talking about a candidate's romantic history! Cant make this stuff up...

Greg, let's talk about the irony of Trump's win. 

If I only said to you that this candidate is a Republican, but he's been married three times, has numerous girlfriends, including prostitutes, and has in the past groped women...would you guys consider him a potential runner in the next election?  Oh, he's God-fearing, but rarely goes to church and could not name a single passage from the Bible.  He may also be dyslexic, corrupt, will probably hire most of his family, and will destroy most of our global relationships.  He's also a chronic liar and narcissist. 

Republicans would ask..."Is he black?"

Response:  "No."

Republicans:  "Is he against the NRA?"

Response:  "No, he's a member."

Republicans:  "Good to go!"

Cheers!

Republicans would ask: Is it a Clinton?

The rest of us: Well, there you go!

Ive stated numerous times, Trump is far, far from a perfect candidate. But he's what we have to fend off the crazies. If I told you:

Your current candidate is an establishment politician.

You: OK

He's perpetuated discrimination

You:  Ehhh..I guess I can live with that

He's been one of the largest proponents of incarceration

You: Well, not exactly what we need right now, but ok.

He's running off of "I am Obama .75"

You: Better than Trump

He forgot that he's running for President

You: WTF

He picked a luny tune socialist as his running mate

You: ehhhhh

Robin Williams mocked him over a decade ago for being out of his mind and making druggies look sane

You: ehhhh


Thats the alternative! Can you believe this shit? I have stated many times, I'd vote for a better alternative. I'd vote for Howard Schultz. I'd vote for Mike Bloomberg. Or Tulsi Gabbard. But no, this! is what they present us with lol! Come the fuck on!

Fair enough!   ;D  Cheers!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 18, 2020, 08:44:17 AM
You know those USPS sorting machines that Trump is having removed? Surprise! They are coming from predominately blue areas:

(https://i.redd.it/4nkamkn0brh51.jpg)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 18, 2020, 08:50:37 AM
He did say "NY is in play"! I was wondering how he planned to pull that off.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 18, 2020, 09:06:52 AM
He knows NYC is a clusterf&&*&* when it comes to voting, particularly the outer boroughs in densely populated black/spanish hoods. 2-4 hour waits were common, outside in the cold, wrapped around the block, just to vote. He wants to make it as miserable as possible for these people to exercise their constitutional right.

And he knows in NY it will have zero effect. He is doing it solely to cause misery.

He is, in short, a piece of human garbage.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 18, 2020, 10:21:56 AM
He is, in short, a piece of human garbage.

Yes he is.
It didn't have to be this way. He could have literally been one of the greatest President's ever. He's got the fuck you money, he owed nobody in Washington anything. And he initially surrounded himself with some honorable people many of whom left, and he did the right thing with Tax Cuts.

But no, he had to become a divisive wannabe autocrat. And now he's lost so much of the middle ground, independent folks, and even many Republicans. I would so happily pay 25-50% more in taxes to get rid of this pyromaniac, and I hate paying taxes.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 18, 2020, 11:07:06 AM
He is, in short, a piece of human garbage.

Yes he is.
It didn't have to be this way. He could have literally been one of the greatest President's ever. He's got the fuck you money, he owed nobody in Washington anything. And he initially surrounded himself with some honorable people many of whom left, and he did the right thing with Tax Cuts.

But no, he had to become a divisive wannabe autocrat. And now he's lost so much of the middle ground, independent folks, and even many Republicans. I would so happily pay 25-50% more in taxes to get rid of this pyromaniac, and I hate paying taxes.

I don't think he's lost as many as you think. I know several people (myself included) that did not vote for him in 2016 but will probably vote for him this year.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 18, 2020, 11:13:40 AM
He is, in short, a piece of human garbage.

Yes he is.
It didn't have to be this way. He could have literally been one of the greatest President's ever. He's got the fuck you money, he owed nobody in Washington anything. And he initially surrounded himself with some honorable people many of whom left, and he did the right thing with Tax Cuts.

But no, he had to become a divisive wannabe autocrat. And now he's lost so much of the middle ground, independent folks, and even many Republicans. I would so happily pay 25-50% more in taxes to get rid of this pyromaniac, and I hate paying taxes.

I don't think he's lost as many as you think. I know several people (myself included) that did not vote for him in 2016 but will probably vote for him this year.

You can count on quite a bit of Black support - now that their neighborhoods have been torched, businesses burned down, and the defunding the police disaster has increased the crime rates significantly. These people are not stupid.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 18, 2020, 11:17:37 AM
He is, in short, a piece of human garbage.

Yes he is.
It didn't have to be this way. He could have literally been one of the greatest President's ever. He's got the fuck you money, he owed nobody in Washington anything. And he initially surrounded himself with some honorable people many of whom left, and he did the right thing with Tax Cuts.

But no, he had to become a divisive wannabe autocrat. And now he's lost so much of the middle ground, independent folks, and even many Republicans. I would so happily pay 25-50% more in taxes to get rid of this pyromaniac, and I hate paying taxes.

I don't think he's lost as many as you think. I know several people (myself included) that did not vote for him in 2016 but will probably vote for him this year.

You can count on quite a bit of Black support - now that their neighborhoods have been torched, businesses burned down, and the defunding the police disaster has increased the crime rates significantly. These people are not stupid.

Bro, Trump is president so obviously all that crime and looting is his fault!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 18, 2020, 11:21:56 AM
He is, in short, a piece of human garbage.

Yes he is.
It didn't have to be this way. He could have literally been one of the greatest President's ever. He's got the fuck you money, he owed nobody in Washington anything. And he initially surrounded himself with some honorable people many of whom left, and he did the right thing with Tax Cuts.

But no, he had to become a divisive wannabe autocrat. And now he's lost so much of the middle ground, independent folks, and even many Republicans. I would so happily pay 25-50% more in taxes to get rid of this pyromaniac, and I hate paying taxes.

I don't think he's lost as many as you think. I know several people (myself included) that did not vote for him in 2016 but will probably vote for him this year.

Stop supporting satan, Paul. That's no way to get into heaven.

You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 18, 2020, 11:23:17 AM
He is, in short, a piece of human garbage.

Yes he is.
It didn't have to be this way. He could have literally been one of the greatest President's ever. He's got the fuck you money, he owed nobody in Washington anything. And he initially surrounded himself with some honorable people many of whom left, and he did the right thing with Tax Cuts.

But no, he had to become a divisive wannabe autocrat. And now he's lost so much of the middle ground, independent folks, and even many Republicans. I would so happily pay 25-50% more in taxes to get rid of this pyromaniac, and I hate paying taxes.

I don't think he's lost as many as you think. I know several people (myself included) that did not vote for him in 2016 but will probably vote for him this year.

Stop supporting satan, Paul. That's no way to get into heaven.

You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

LOL, poking the morality bear...fun fun.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 18, 2020, 11:29:01 AM
Logic naturally doesn't work, so let's try bullshit instead ;D
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 18, 2020, 11:35:24 AM
He is, in short, a piece of human garbage.

Yes he is.
It didn't have to be this way. He could have literally been one of the greatest President's ever. He's got the fuck you money, he owed nobody in Washington anything. And he initially surrounded himself with some honorable people many of whom left, and he did the right thing with Tax Cuts.

But no, he had to become a divisive wannabe autocrat. And now he's lost so much of the middle ground, independent folks, and even many Republicans. I would so happily pay 25-50% more in taxes to get rid of this pyromaniac, and I hate paying taxes.

I don't think he's lost as many as you think. I know several people (myself included) that did not vote for him in 2016 but will probably vote for him this year.

Stop supporting satan, Paul. That's no way to get into heaven.

You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

LOL, poking the morality bear...fun fun.

haha yes, lc thinks that certain moral acts are "good" and some are "bad." I'm simply saying that Trump's actions aren't good or bad - just like lc's actions (if lc's worldview is accurate). His opinion of his morality being "better" than Trump's is simply an illusion. ;)

lc says he needs evidence to believe things...but has provided zero evidence on why Trump's actions are "bad". Well, no evidence except "feelings."  ;D
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 18, 2020, 11:38:28 AM
Logic naturally doesn't work, so let's try bullshit instead ;D

Yes bs like "well, morality is both subjective and...ugh, objective at the same time! Trust me - feeeeelings!" Logic doesn't work that way, lc. ;)

If you're going to take a position, you need to admit to the logical underpinnings of that position.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 18, 2020, 11:53:16 AM
He is, in short, a piece of human garbage.

Yes he is.
It didn't have to be this way. He could have literally been one of the greatest President's ever. He's got the fuck you money, he owed nobody in Washington anything. And he initially surrounded himself with some honorable people many of whom left, and he did the right thing with Tax Cuts.

But no, he had to become a divisive wannabe autocrat. And now he's lost so much of the middle ground, independent folks, and even many Republicans. I would so happily pay 25-50% more in taxes to get rid of this pyromaniac, and I hate paying taxes.

I don't think he's lost as many as you think. I know several people (myself included) that did not vote for him in 2016 but will probably vote for him this year.

You are right, the core cult support of 38% or so hasn't changed.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 18, 2020, 12:59:19 PM
Logic naturally doesn't work, so let's try bullshit instead ;D

Yes bs like "well, morality is both subjective and...ugh, objective at the same time! Trust me - feeeeelings!" Logic doesn't work that way, lc. ;)

If you're going to take a position, you need to admit to the logical underpinnings of that position.

Paul, it's so simple...

Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

But also:

"The simple believes everything, but the prudent gives thought to his steps."

So, don't be so simple! But, be simple! Also:

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters… he cannot be My disciple."

Oh but also:

"15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."

Therefore, you must vote for Biden.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 18, 2020, 03:22:06 PM
Logic naturally doesn't work, so let's try bullshit instead ;D

Yes bs like "well, morality is both subjective and...ugh, objective at the same time! Trust me - feeeeelings!" Logic doesn't work that way, lc. ;)

If you're going to take a position, you need to admit to the logical underpinnings of that position.

Paul, it's so simple...

Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

But also:

"The simple believes everything, but the prudent gives thought to his steps."

So, don't be so simple! But, be simple! Also:

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters… he cannot be My disciple."

Oh but also:

"15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."

Therefore, you must vote for Biden.

Speaking of simple thinking, let's take a look at this. Believing whether Jesus rose from the dead is not "believing everything."

Like I said, if Jesus wasn't resurrected, why were his followers willing to die for a situation that they knew was false? Why did Saul stop hunting down Christians and convert?

Simple thinking is more like "I reject God because XYZ but will say that I don't believe because there's no empirical evidence. And, being a highly intelligent modern person, I only believe in things with evidence. However, I'll believe plenty of other things without empirical evidence...because well, ugh, feelings". I can't think of too many more ways of simple thinking than having "feelings" as the answer.

If you're going to take a position, why not follow it to the logical conclusion, if you want to be intellectually honest at least?

The most honest view of morality to take (again if you only believe things with evidence) is to also be agnostic towards moral actions.

Let's look at the "hate your family" one. This is pretty easy to take apart too. Jesus said many things for effect. Like cutting out your eye rather than sin. Do you really think he meant to cut your eye out? Why don't we see a bunch of one eyed Christians walking around?

Do you really think it means to hate your family? Or rather, would the family verse mean that you should love God more than yourself or family?


I'm sure you won't answer these so I'll assume you'll be fondly looking over your Dodge Ball Champion 1998 trophy.  ;D
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 18, 2020, 04:07:01 PM
Well those may be interesting points that you make which some hellbound atheists would perhaps discuss but I would counter with:

"Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is."

Just understand it!

Oh and also:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

You're out there voting for Trump, prophesying, casting out those demons and doing mighty works but the J-man is going pull a "new phone, who dis?" on you! So just understand it and vote Biden!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 18, 2020, 04:19:42 PM

Therefore, you must vote for Biden.

Laughing my ass off...!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 18, 2020, 04:31:18 PM
LC and StaleyP, for your convenience, I created a new thread where you can continue your off topic discussion:

https://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/politics/staleyp-memorial-jesus-morality-and-abortion-tangent-thread/
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 18, 2020, 07:55:34 PM

Therefore, you must vote for Biden.

Laughing my ass off...!

I'm tellin ya, I think I'm breaking through...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 19, 2020, 06:39:13 AM

Therefore, you must vote for Biden.

Laughing my ass off...!

I'm tellin ya, I think I'm breaking through...

You also won the 1999 Middle School Dodge Ball Championship??? Dannnnng!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Spekulatius on August 20, 2020, 04:42:33 PM
One of the ironic thing is that the COVID-19 is actually pretty much the best thing they can happen to an incumbent right before an election. just like any crisis, CIVID-19 favors the incumbent as he can show they he is a doer, unite, show statementship.
I can see this play out in Germany where Merkel had abysmal ratings(for good reasons) and now has gained substantially. It is naturally what people do, they huddle behind the leadership, unless the leadership truly sucks. Even BJ in Britain, which has had by any measure even performed worse than that HS, has not shown abig drop in polls (as far as I know)

That’s where Trump lacked political instinct. Instead of embracing this epidemic as an problem that has to be dealt with uttermost importance, he decided it is Democratic hoax, choose to decide where he could have united, overwrite advice from his experts and decided to play this openly partisan.

The mask debate alone was a huge failure. Imagine the opportunity to state that wearing mask is patriotic and show of with red MAGA mask on TV every day. Free advertising at his best and will do some good too. That’s  just one of the many things he could have pulled off.

If he had played his cards right, he would be way ahead in polls and a shoe in for another 4 years. Now, not so much.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 20, 2020, 04:47:00 PM

That’s where Trump lacked political instinct. Instead of embracing this epidemic as an problem that has to be dealt with uttermost importance, he decided it is Democratic hoax, choose to decide where he could have united, overwrite advice from his experts and decided to play this openly partisan.


I think it's more likely he's constitutionally incapable, than that he lacked political instinct. In fact, he made several attempts and could not sustain the effort for even a minimal amount of time. If you really understand who he is, that should not be surprising in the least.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Viking on August 20, 2020, 07:16:48 PM
One of the ironic thing is that the COVID-19 is actually pretty much the best thing they can happen to an incumbent right before an election. just like any crisis, CIVID-19 favors the incumbent as he can show they he is a doer, unite, show statementship.
I can see this play out in Germany where Merkel had abysmal ratings(for good reasons) and now has gained substantially. It is naturally what people do, they huddle behind the leadership, unless the leadership truly sucks. Even BJ in Britain, which has had by any measure even performed worse than that HS, has not shown abig drop in polls (as far as I know)

That’s where Trump lacked political instinct. Instead of embracing this epidemic as an problem that has to be dealt with uttermost importance, he decided it is Democratic hoax, choose to decide where he could have united, overwrite advice from his experts and decided to play this openly partisan.

The mask debate alone was a huge failure. Imagine the opportunity to state that wearing mask is patriotic and show of with red MAGA mask on TV every day. Free advertising at his best and will do some good too. That’s  just one of the many things he could have pulled off.

If he had played his cards right, he would be way ahead in polls and a shoe in for another 4 years. Now, not so much.

+1.

Given the virus is still with us what does Trump do in the next 85 days to fix a failed strategy? My guess is we will see a big vaccine announcement before the election (that will likely be big hat and no cattle...).

Trump better hope we do not get another stock market meltdown in October.

Crazy times :-)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 21, 2020, 12:35:07 PM
One of the ironic thing is that the COVID-19 is actually pretty much the best thing they can happen to an incumbent right before an election. just like any crisis, CIVID-19 favors the incumbent as he can show they he is a doer, unite, show statementship.
I can see this play out in Germany where Merkel had abysmal ratings(for good reasons) and now has gained substantially. It is naturally what people do, they huddle behind the leadership, unless the leadership truly sucks. Even BJ in Britain, which has had by any measure even performed worse than that HS, has not shown abig drop in polls (as far as I know)

That’s where Trump lacked political instinct. Instead of embracing this epidemic as an problem that has to be dealt with uttermost importance, he decided it is Democratic hoax, choose to decide where he could have united, overwrite advice from his experts and decided to play this openly partisan.

The mask debate alone was a huge failure. Imagine the opportunity to state that wearing mask is patriotic and show of with red MAGA mask on TV every day. Free advertising at his best and will do some good too. That’s  just one of the many things he could have pulled off.

If he had played his cards right, he would be way ahead in polls and a shoe in for another 4 years. Now, not so much.

+1.

Given the virus is still with us what does Trump do in the next 85 days to fix a failed strategy? My guess is we will see a big vaccine announcement before the election (that will likely be big hat and no cattle...).

Trump better hope we do not get another stock market meltdown in October.

Crazy times :-)
+1 for remembering to give Spek a +1 for his comments, which in haste I forgot to do, and take a +1 for your own comments, too.

I think we should expect that Trump may try to announce a vaccine as soon as next week during the RNC. The details are likely to be extremely different from whatever viral talking point, BS headline he tries to get the media to take without fact checking him.

The truth will likely be closer to what China has done or what Russia has done with their somewhat questionable mislabeled phase III trials. Or simply a very misleading timeline. Example:

Headline: "Trump announces successful vaccine! On the final day of the convention, Trump declared the end to the Pandemic. Crowds cheered and supporters dance in streets!"

The follow up article: In response to last night's announcement of a successful vaccine by Donald Trump, XXX Pharma confirmed today that they are exceedingly confident that the phase III readout will be positive and take place within six months with most US citizens having had the opportunity to complete both rounds of injections within the next 18 months provided positive results are achieved and the current manufacturing difficulties are overcome, and current government subsidies are maintained. The CEO was quoted, "Trump is not wrong. I have a good feeling about this one, I really do". When asked about the fact that his vaccine which was developed using federal funding is expected to cost over ten times the estimated cost of other vaccine candidates, the CEO left the podium smiling and waving as he walked away.

In other news is it was announced that executives of XXX Pharma sold over $100 million in stock today after the stock price more than quadrupled. The stock sales were the first sales in a year and were part of a preplanned program of ongoing stock sales. Executives confirmed that there were no additional future sales of stock planned as part of the ongoing periodic planned stock sales program.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 23, 2020, 11:35:07 AM
That’s where Trump lacked political instinct....If he had played his cards right, he would be way ahead in polls and a shoe in for another 4 years. Now, not so much.

And now instead, we get this!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-23/trump-to-present-virus-therapy-breakthrough-after-hitting-fda

Quote
President Donald Trump’s chief of staff blamed federal bureaucrats for slowing the U.S. response to the virus pandemic, ahead of an announcement Sunday on a “therapeutic breakthrough” promised by the White House.
...
Asked whether he believes FDA employees are delaying a vaccine for political purposes ahead of the general election, Meadows said: “I believe there are a number of people that do not see the same sense of urgency that [Trump] sees.”


Perfectly timed! A slam dunk!

He's behaving just like any other politician or POTUS that we've ever had! Nothing to see here folks--we all remember when Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan all would do something similar a few months out from election.

Bring on the rushed "breakthrough treatment" (even bigger than hydroxychloroquine)! No phase III study needed! The Russian FDA has given us the blueprint!

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160812164702-obama-biden-laughing-large-169.jpg)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 23, 2020, 02:59:18 PM
Republicans who have become “libtards”:

John Kasich, Cindy McCain, and Trump’s own sister (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/maryanne-trump-barry-secret-recordings/2020/08/22/30d457f4-e334-11ea-ade1-28daf1a5e919_story.html).

Even the wifey won’t hold his hand. Surprising because we keep hearing how Donnie is “no different from any other politician” and “Biden/Harris are on the same level as him”. These “RINOs” must all be a part of the “deep state” we keep hearing about.

Donnie, you need more loyal folks by your side. Might I suggest your people reach out to some of the posters on CoBF. They have stuck with you through thick and thin, with undying and unquestioned loyalty through > 170,000 bodies and more!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 23, 2020, 04:42:12 PM
Republicans who have become “libtards”:

John Kasich, Cindy McCain, and Trump’s own sister (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/maryanne-trump-barry-secret-recordings/2020/08/22/30d457f4-e334-11ea-ade1-28daf1a5e919_story.html).

Even the wifey won’t hold his hand. Surprising because we keep hearing how Donnie is “no different from any other politician” and “Biden/Harris are on the same level as him”. These “RINOs” must all be a part of the “deep state” we keep hearing about.

Donnie, you need more loyal folks by your side. Might I suggest your people reach out to some of the posters on CoBF. They have stuck with you through thick and thin, with undying and unquestioned loyalty through > 170,000 bodies and more!

So the never trumpers hate him - big deal. Those never-trumper have bent to the will of lobbyists, special interest groups, and DC establishment.

The 2016 election was a total rejection of business as usual for both Republicans AND Democrats.

As long as Trump has the public behind him - he is golden. This latest episode with violence, looting, etc is helping Trump tremendously.
Witness the DNC virtual conference FAILS to mention OR condemn the violence - lest the Dems alienate the LEFT wing of their party.

Can you imagine a party that wants to run the country failing to even condemn or offer solutions to violence. The Democrats are a joke.
You're welcome to have all the never-trumpers you like - Mitt Romney/Kasich - they are all yours!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 23, 2020, 04:56:11 PM
His wife and sister are never Trumpers? Mattis? Kelly? Sessions?

Weird...What’s worse—

A “never Trumper”

Or an “always Trumper”?

Only one of these two would continue supporting a leader despite committing the worst atrocities. These are the types who have allowed/supported awful leaders to rise and stay in power throughout history. 100 years ago, always Trumpers would be chanting someone else’s name. The names change, but the broken logic remains the same.

Speaking of which, have his people gotten in touch with you yet? Melania is old news, time for spouse #4
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 23, 2020, 05:00:03 PM
The only people who are not “never Trumpers” remaining:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgD7plQWsAIOiCv?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Half of them have the last name “Trump”. Sad!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 23, 2020, 05:58:26 PM
The only people who are not “never Trumpers” remaining:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgD7plQWsAIOiCv?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Half of them have the last name “Trump”. Sad!

Given his niece's book and his sister's comments, he better not count on the family either. But what would they know. I mean his niece only only has a doctoral degree in clinical psychology. Oh yes, and his sister, well she is just a retired federal appellate judge.

Hardly crediable people right? 
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 23, 2020, 06:10:22 PM
His wife and sister are never Trumpers? Mattis? Kelly? Sessions?

Weird...What’s worse—

A “never Trumper”

Or an “always Trumper”?

Only one of these two would continue supporting a leader despite committing the worst atrocities. These are the types who have allowed/supported awful leaders to rise and stay in power throughout history. 100 years ago, always Trumpers would be chanting someone else’s name. The names change, but the broken logic remains the same.

Speaking of which, have his people gotten in touch with you yet? Melania is old news, time for spouse #4

You have quite the imagination -- committing the worst atrocities - now you are just making stuff up!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 23, 2020, 06:13:51 PM
Well, who cares. The same Republicans who didnt like Trump in '16 dont like him again. This is news? What is news, and also good entertainment, is watching these fools start to sweat. They see the writing on the wall. Whereas 2016 they lost due to pure arrogance and Hillarys entitlement, this one is pure stupidity and negligence if they cant pull it off. But they surely see whats happening. All the fake dramas and boy who cried wolf episodes are coming home to roost. They see the economy holding up better than forecast, they see the COVID case numbers and where they are trending and really start getting nervous thinking about where they could be in 2 months, they see the progress with vaccines and treatment, they see the stock market, and oh yea, guess what? (probably manipulated time wise, intentionally) that either they be the party to say "no stimulus", or inject new stimulus into the economy in September, which, guess when that will start to show up in the figures? They just had their convention and it was a laugher. After picking a joker VP candidate. Violence in THEIR cities is out of control and they say nothing about it even when a high majority of minority voters continue to demand police presence in their neighborhood....They're not just libtards anymore, they're full fledged retards. And they are fully deserving of everything that they have brought on themselves. Better do what they do best, root against America and hope for this massive "second wave" they've been talking about...real quick! But that would involve forcing the chumps in many blue states to actually open up again...another tough corner to be in. They arent even playing checkers, at best its tick, tack, toe with a pen thats running out of ink. All they had to do was pick a candidate who wasn't suffering from dementia and hiding in his basement, with a VP that didnt make a career out of exploiting minorities and being a tough guy prosecutor.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 23, 2020, 07:05:43 PM
The only people who are not “never Trumpers” remaining:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgD7plQWsAIOiCv?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Half of them have the last name “Trump”. Sad!

Given his niece's book and his sister's comments, he better not count on the family either. But what would they know. I mean his niece only only has a doctoral degree in clinical psychology. Oh yes, and his sister, well she is just a retired federal appellate judge.

Hardly crediable people right?

Not as credible as Tiffany Trump, surely!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 24, 2020, 06:21:40 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kellyanne-conway-white-house/2020/08/23/6c26e18a-e5a7-11ea-bc79-834454439a44_story.html

Rats jumping ship?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 24, 2020, 06:35:11 AM
His wife and sister are never Trumpers? Mattis? Kelly? Sessions?

Weird...What’s worse—

A “never Trumper”

Or an “always Trumper”?

Only one of these two would continue supporting a leader despite committing the worst atrocities. These are the types who have allowed/supported awful leaders to rise and stay in power throughout history. 100 years ago, always Trumpers would be chanting someone else’s name. The names change, but the broken logic remains the same.

Speaking of which, have his people gotten in touch with you yet? Melania is old news, time for spouse #4

You have quite the imagination -- committing the worst atrocities - now you are just making stuff up!
Unfortunately, Dalal has a point.

I think you could easily make a case that more American lives have been lost and more American's health has been damaged, and more damage done to the US economy without any real reason other than the shortcomings and mistakes of this administration's response or more appropriately its failure to respond appropriately to the SARS-2.0 crisis.

You can make the argument that Trump made early political mistakes and then has been unsuccessful at pivoting after committing to poor political choices early on. You can make arguments that it was a perfect storm of a crisis that required good leadership, strong agencies, and respect for expertise that challenged an administration that had none of those things, but the fact is, historians will ultimately look at this crisis and it's initial response as one of the greatest failings in the history of the USA relative to what should have been possible, and that should be the standard.

Trump keeps trying to distract by deflecting blame or trying to choose his own measuring stick, but he should not be allowed to do so. You also should ask yourself, what kind of person makes this stuff political when lives and health are at risk. The fact that he made the wrong choice so early should be all you need to know. The fact that he has been unable to improve upon those early mistakes, and that no one so far has held him to account, should have been unimaginable four years ago.

Trump's assessment of his own performance is kind of like the incoming coach of the University of Alabama football team failing to win any games. Finishing in last place even though they have one of the largest budgets and deepest pools of talent, and then the coach tries to tell you that the guys in the other league are even worse.  ::)

Even worse, the coaches supporters believe it.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 24, 2020, 06:45:29 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kellyanne-conway-white-house/2020/08/23/6c26e18a-e5a7-11ea-bc79-834454439a44_story.html

Rats jumping ship?

Her husband (George Conway) left the Lincoln Project too. Sounds like one of their kids went wild on Twitter and parents realized what was most important to focus on.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 24, 2020, 06:47:59 AM
His wife and sister are never Trumpers? Mattis? Kelly? Sessions?

Weird...What’s worse—

A “never Trumper”

Or an “always Trumper”?

Only one of these two would continue supporting a leader despite committing the worst atrocities. These are the types who have allowed/supported awful leaders to rise and stay in power throughout history. 100 years ago, always Trumpers would be chanting someone else’s name. The names change, but the broken logic remains the same.

Speaking of which, have his people gotten in touch with you yet? Melania is old news, time for spouse #4

You have quite the imagination -- committing the worst atrocities - now you are just making stuff up!
Unfortunately, Dalal has a point.

I think you could easily make a case that more American lives have been lost and more American's health has been damaged, and more damage done to the US economy without any real reason other than the shortcomings and mistakes of this administration's response or more appropriately its failure to respond appropriately to the SARS-2.0 crisis.

You can make the argument that Trump made early political mistakes and then has been unsuccessful at pivoting after committing to poor political choices early on. You can make arguments that it was a perfect storm of a crisis that required good leadership, strong agencies, and respect for expertise that challenged an administration that had none of those things, but the fact is, historians will ultimately look at this crisis and it's initial response as one of the greatest failings in the history of the USA relative to what should have been possible, and that should be the standard.

Trump keeps trying to distract by deflecting blame or trying to choose his own measuring stick, but he should not be allowed to do so. You also should ask yourself, what kind of person makes this stuff political when lives and health are at risk. The fact that he made the wrong choice so early should be all you need to know. The fact that he has been unable to improve upon those early mistakes, and that no one so far has held him to account, should have been unimaginable four years ago.

Trump's assessment of his own performance is kind of like the incoming coach of the University of Alabama football team failing to win any games. Finishing in last place even though they have one of the largest budgets and deepest pools of talent, and then the coach tries to tell you that the guys in the other league are even worse.  ::)

Even worse, the coaches supporters believe it.

TL;DR version: "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters“ -DJT

So yeah, Always Trumpers (the sociopath’s enablers) are much more dangerous than Never Trumpers.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 24, 2020, 07:34:55 AM
His wife and sister are never Trumpers? Mattis? Kelly? Sessions?

Weird...What’s worse—

A “never Trumper”

Or an “always Trumper”?

Only one of these two would continue supporting a leader despite committing the worst atrocities. These are the types who have allowed/supported awful leaders to rise and stay in power throughout history. 100 years ago, always Trumpers would be chanting someone else’s name. The names change, but the broken logic remains the same.

Speaking of which, have his people gotten in touch with you yet? Melania is old news, time for spouse #4

You have quite the imagination -- committing the worst atrocities - now you are just making stuff up!
Unfortunately, Dalal has a point.

I think you could easily make a case that more American lives have been lost and more American's health has been damaged, and more damage done to the US economy without any real reason other than the shortcomings and mistakes of this administration's response or more appropriately its failure to respond appropriately to the SARS-2.0 crisis.

You can make the argument that Trump made early political mistakes and then has been unsuccessful at pivoting after committing to poor political choices early on. You can make arguments that it was a perfect storm of a crisis that required good leadership, strong agencies, and respect for expertise that challenged an administration that had none of those things, but the fact is, historians will ultimately look at this crisis and it's initial response as one of the greatest failings in the history of the USA relative to what should have been possible, and that should be the standard.

Trump keeps trying to distract by deflecting blame or trying to choose his own measuring stick, but he should not be allowed to do so. You also should ask yourself, what kind of person makes this stuff political when lives and health are at risk. The fact that he made the wrong choice so early should be all you need to know. The fact that he has been unable to improve upon those early mistakes, and that no one so far has held him to account, should have been unimaginable four years ago.

Trump's assessment of his own performance is kind of like the incoming coach of the University of Alabama football team failing to win any games. Finishing in last place even though they have one of the largest budgets and deepest pools of talent, and then the coach tries to tell you that the guys in the other league are even worse.  ::)

Even worse, the coaches supporters believe it.

TL;DR version: "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters“ -DJT

So yeah, Always Trumpers (the sociopath’s enablers) are much more dangerous than Never Trumpers.

If I were to create my own TL;DR for my post it would read:

Actual US loss due to Coronavirus - E(US loss to coronavirus) = excess loss due to incompetence

Excess loss due to incompetence = value estimate of the crime committed
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 24, 2020, 12:37:42 PM
His wife and sister are never Trumpers? Mattis? Kelly? Sessions?

Weird...What’s worse—

A “never Trumper”

Or an “always Trumper”?

Only one of these two would continue supporting a leader despite committing the worst atrocities. These are the types who have allowed/supported awful leaders to rise and stay in power throughout history. 100 years ago, always Trumpers would be chanting someone else’s name. The names change, but the broken logic remains the same.

Speaking of which, have his people gotten in touch with you yet? Melania is old news, time for spouse #4

You have quite the imagination -- committing the worst atrocities - now you are just making stuff up!
Unfortunately, Dalal has a point.

I think you could easily make a case that more American lives have been lost and more American's health has been damaged, and more damage done to the US economy without any real reason other than the shortcomings and mistakes of this administration's response or more appropriately its failure to respond appropriately to the SARS-2.0 crisis.

You can make the argument that Trump made early political mistakes and then has been unsuccessful at pivoting after committing to poor political choices early on. You can make arguments that it was a perfect storm of a crisis that required good leadership, strong agencies, and respect for expertise that challenged an administration that had none of those things, but the fact is, historians will ultimately look at this crisis and it's initial response as one of the greatest failings in the history of the USA relative to what should have been possible, and that should be the standard.

Trump keeps trying to distract by deflecting blame or trying to choose his own measuring stick, but he should not be allowed to do so. You also should ask yourself, what kind of person makes this stuff political when lives and health are at risk. The fact that he made the wrong choice so early should be all you need to know. The fact that he has been unable to improve upon those early mistakes, and that no one so far has held him to account, should have been unimaginable four years ago.

Trump's assessment of his own performance is kind of like the incoming coach of the University of Alabama football team failing to win any games. Finishing in last place even though they have one of the largest budgets and deepest pools of talent, and then the coach tries to tell you that the guys in the other league are even worse.  ::)

Even worse, the coaches supporters believe it.

You really ought to shine that lens on Cuomo/De Blasio and the Democratic mayors/governors of the largest cities in America that are
experiencing arson, violence, looting, and unrest. Under the Democratic motto of "peaceful protesting" - countless lives are being destroyed
both financially and health wise.  Just witness the DNC convention that refuses to MENTION violence, lest they have to OWN IT.

Does Trump run NYC, Chicago, Minneapolis, Portland, etc, etc???    No - Democrats OWN IT, but use their slight of hand to deflect it to Trump.

Did Trump crowd thousands of sick CV19 patients into nursing homes, unknowingly killing them??   No - Democrats OWN IT, but blame it on Trump.

You liberal supporters believe what you like. The CV19 issue is turning and under control.  The urban violence tolerated and tacitly condoned by
the Democratic Party just got Trump re-elected (in my opinion of course).

While you all talk about the "bad orange man" - Democrats ignore REAL destruction of lives and offer NO solutions, other than
America is "systematically racists" and Trump is evil.

So long as you want to label Trump supporters as "racists and bigots" (even though they elected a black man President 2X) - you are going to
have to deal with the voter blowback in November of a population that does not believe they are racists. Most of these people LOVE this country
and do NOT want to be led by a party that HATES America.  That DNC convention was nothing but an American hatefest right out of Barrack
Obama's playbook.

Good luck with that fellas.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 24, 2020, 12:55:22 PM
It is somewhat amusing how silent they are on the violence and utter chaos swamping their cities. How covid is 100% a federal issue, and 0% lies at the local level. Instead they rather daydream about the next Trump conspiracy or scour Twitter for funny soundbites or jokes about how much POTUS sucks... to each their own. As Sanjeev said, America will go on. I feel bad for the folks who get so bent out of shape thinking the day to day tabloid stuff will change that. Actually, I dont. I get amusement out of their distress. Whatever.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 24, 2020, 01:47:01 PM

You really ought to shine that lens on Cuomo/De Blasio and the Democratic mayors/governors of the largest cities in America that are
experiencing arson, violence, looting, and unrest. Under the Democratic motto of "peaceful protesting" - countless lives are being destroyed
both financially and health wise.  Just witness the DNC convention that refuses to MENTION violence, lest they have to OWN IT.

Does Trump run NYC, Chicago, Minneapolis, Portland, etc, etc???    No - Democrats OWN IT, but use their slight of hand to deflect it to Trump.

Did Trump crowd thousands of sick CV19 patients into nursing homes, unknowingly killing them??   No - Democrats OWN IT, but blame it on Trump.

You liberal supporters believe what you like. The CV19 issue is turning and under control.  The urban violence tolerated and tacitly condoned by
the Democratic Party just got Trump re-elected (in my opinion of course).

While you all talk about the "bad orange man" - Democrats ignore REAL destruction of lives and offer NO solutions, other than
America is "systematically racists" and Trump is evil.

So long as you want to label Trump supporters as "racists and bigots" (even though they elected a black man President 2X) - you are going to
have to deal with the voter blowback in November of a population that does not believe they are racists. Most of these people LOVE this country
and do NOT want to be led by a party that HATES America.  That DNC convention was nothing but an American hatefest right out of Barrack
Obama's playbook.

Good luck with that fellas.

Let me see if I have listed the rhetorical strategies here correctly:
1) Attempt to redirect to new topic
2) Straw man argument
3) Ad hominem attack
4) list of off topic, unverifiable, emotional invective

Why not just say "I've got nothing"?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 24, 2020, 01:59:46 PM

Why not just say "I've got nothing"?

Not bad.

Actually.....The Democrats have nothing or are afraid to talk about it....I'm still waiting for a platform discussion other that Trump is bad.
Hillary did the exact same thing in 2016 - which backfired big time.
I guess it's just the party that never learns....

It would seem a very basic concept to disavow and condemn arson/violence/looting by your base - at the very least, distance yourself from it...

But it's just fine with me, because they are handing the election to the Orange man.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 24, 2020, 02:11:41 PM
3) Ad hominem attack


Oh, one more thing - if I somehow attacked your character - that was not my intention. My apology.

But if I attacked the character of the disingenuous Democratic leadership - I am totally ok with that.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 24, 2020, 04:45:20 PM
3) Ad hominem attack


Oh, one more thing - if I somehow attacked your character - that was not my intention. My apology.

But if I attacked the character of the disingenuous Democratic leadership - I am totally ok with that.
I didn't take it personally, but thanks for checking. I do however think that some other people might find it offensive or at least off-putting. At a minimum it probably doesn't make people want to engage with you in conversation. That wasn't my point though.

My point was that I was that your posts seem completely disconnected from my post. Nothing you said seems to directly rebut anything I said, or the previous post from Dalal for that matter.

If I make a suggestion, why don't you start a new thread, take one of your statements and turn it in to a question? Personally I'd be kind of interested in a question like "how many CoB&F members who have posted critical comments about Trump also think what is happening in Portland is nuts?" I am guessing you might be surprised by the responses you get. Of course it is still not a valid defense of Trump's behavior and failings. In preschool we were supposed to learn that "two wrongs don't make a right", and that "he started it", or "yeah but he's worse" are not valid excuses.

I thought your question in the Coronavirus thread was stimulating and nice contribution. Why not try to turn some of those assertions in your recent post here in to questions and see if we can all learn something?

Personally, if Trump is successfully removed from office and the new leadership is remotely decent, I expect I am most likely to either:
1) shut up and basically never post again in the Politics section (whatever its future), or
2) spend my time railing against the nuttiest portions of the left. I hope I will have better things to do, and I hope I won't feel the need to complain about the worst of the left either, but why don't you go ahead and pave the way for us with a new, inquisitive thread?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Spekulatius on August 25, 2020, 06:40:39 PM
There are a lot of speakers in the RNC with the last name Trump. -Donald, Melanie, Tiffany, Ivanka, Eric.

It’s great to run the party like a family business.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 25, 2020, 06:56:57 PM
Few big league R's want to vouch for Cadet Bone Spurs. Now you end up with a show worse than the last season of The Apprentice. Sad!

Just don't invite his sister the retired Federal Judge!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 26, 2020, 07:00:59 AM
More R's becoming "libtards":

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8658323/Former-Arizona-senator-Jeff-Flake-leads-dozens-Republicans-against-Trump-ex-lawmakers.html

Quote
Former Arizona senator Jeff Flake is leading dozens of 'Republicans against Trump' on the first day of the National Convention in Charlotte.

Flake is among a number of well-known conservative Trump critics to throw their support behind Joe Biden, including Sens. Gordon Humphrey of New Hampshire (now an independent) and John Warner of Virginia.

Fox News reported that he is joined by a raft of former lawmakers, including:

Reps. Steve Bartlett of Texas, Bill Clinger of Pennsylvania, Tom Coleman of Missouri, Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania, Charles Djou of Hawaii, Mickey Edwards of Oklahoma, Wayne Gilchrest of Maryland, Jim Greenwood of Pennsylvania, Bob Inglis of South Carolina, Jim Kolbe of Arizona, Steve Kuykendall of California, Ray LaHood of Illinois (who served as Transportation secretary in the Obama administration), Jim Leach of Iowa, Connie Morella of Maryland, Mike Parker of Mississippi, Jack Quinn of New York, Claudine Schneider of Rhode Island, Chris Shays of Connecticut, Peter Smith of Vermont, Alan Steelman of Texas, Bill Whitehurst of Virginia, Dick Zimmer of New Jersey, and Jim Walsh of New York.

Clearly these RINOs need to talk with some of the folks on here about how Biden/Harris are just like Trump. All the same just like every other politician who can't be trusted, after all! Derp Derp...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 26, 2020, 07:06:17 AM
More R's becoming "libtards":

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8658323/Former-Arizona-senator-Jeff-Flake-leads-dozens-Republicans-against-Trump-ex-lawmakers.html

Quote
Former Arizona senator Jeff Flake is leading dozens of 'Republicans against Trump' on the first day of the National Convention in Charlotte.

Flake is among a number of well-known conservative Trump critics to throw their support behind Joe Biden, including Sens. Gordon Humphrey of New Hampshire (now an independent) and John Warner of Virginia.

Fox News reported that he is joined by a raft of former lawmakers, including:

Reps. Steve Bartlett of Texas, Bill Clinger of Pennsylvania, Tom Coleman of Missouri, Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania, Charles Djou of Hawaii, Mickey Edwards of Oklahoma, Wayne Gilchrest of Maryland, Jim Greenwood of Pennsylvania, Bob Inglis of South Carolina, Jim Kolbe of Arizona, Steve Kuykendall of California, Ray LaHood of Illinois (who served as Transportation secretary in the Obama administration), Jim Leach of Iowa, Connie Morella of Maryland, Mike Parker of Mississippi, Jack Quinn of New York, Claudine Schneider of Rhode Island, Chris Shays of Connecticut, Peter Smith of Vermont, Alan Steelman of Texas, Bill Whitehurst of Virginia, Dick Zimmer of New Jersey, and Jim Walsh of New York.

Clearly these RINOs need to talk with some of the folks on here about how Biden/Harris are just like Trump. All the same just like every other politician who can't be trusted, after all! Derp Derp...

They're all part of the deep state.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 26, 2020, 07:08:43 AM
More R's becoming "libtards":

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8658323/Former-Arizona-senator-Jeff-Flake-leads-dozens-Republicans-against-Trump-ex-lawmakers.html

Quote
Former Arizona senator Jeff Flake is leading dozens of 'Republicans against Trump' on the first day of the National Convention in Charlotte.

Flake is among a number of well-known conservative Trump critics to throw their support behind Joe Biden, including Sens. Gordon Humphrey of New Hampshire (now an independent) and John Warner of Virginia.

Fox News reported that he is joined by a raft of former lawmakers, including:

Reps. Steve Bartlett of Texas, Bill Clinger of Pennsylvania, Tom Coleman of Missouri, Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania, Charles Djou of Hawaii, Mickey Edwards of Oklahoma, Wayne Gilchrest of Maryland, Jim Greenwood of Pennsylvania, Bob Inglis of South Carolina, Jim Kolbe of Arizona, Steve Kuykendall of California, Ray LaHood of Illinois (who served as Transportation secretary in the Obama administration), Jim Leach of Iowa, Connie Morella of Maryland, Mike Parker of Mississippi, Jack Quinn of New York, Claudine Schneider of Rhode Island, Chris Shays of Connecticut, Peter Smith of Vermont, Alan Steelman of Texas, Bill Whitehurst of Virginia, Dick Zimmer of New Jersey, and Jim Walsh of New York.

Clearly these RINOs need to talk with some of the folks on here about how Biden/Harris are just like Trump. All the same just like every other politician who can't be trusted, after all! Derp Derp...

They're all part of the deep state.

Can’t argue with that   ;D
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 26, 2020, 07:45:18 AM
More...

https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/the-north-carolina-republicans-who-are-defecting-from-trump

Quote
Mike Hawkins, the Republican chairman of the Transylvania County Board of Commissioners, in North Carolina, was on vacation last summer when he saw clips from Donald Trump’s speech to cheering supporters at East Carolina University, in Greenville. Earlier that week, Trump had aimed tweets at four prominent Democratic members of Congress, all women of color, suggesting that they should “go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came.” Never mind that three of the four had been born in the United States, and the fourth, Ilhan Omar, had left Somalia as a refugee when she was a young girl. At East Carolina, Trump lit into Omar, prompting the crowd to chant “Send her back!” He attacked the four representatives as “hate-filled extremists” and defended his tweets, saying, “You know, they don’t love our country.”

That was enough for Hawkins. And so, at the next commission meeting in Brevard, population eight thousand, Hawkins, who is white, called out the President. “What happened at E.C.U. can only be described as racist,” he said. “It’s important that people identify hate for what it is—a poison to our state and to our country. And I wanted to say in a very public way that for whatever time I have remaining as an elected official, I will oppose this poison every way I can.” When he finished, two other white Republicans on the commission, Page Ives Lemel and W. David Guice, the state’s former commissioner of adult correction and juvenile justice, offered words of support.

Five months later, all three quit the Republican Party. Between them, they had won twenty elections as Republicans, yet they had grown disenchanted not just with Trump but with the G.O.P. When they looked at the Party’s leadership in North Carolina and across the country, they said, they saw too many officials who catered to narrow constituencies, dismissed inconvenient truths, ignored the rule of law, and undermined the idea that government exists to serve the common good. “Where did we get so far off the path of believing the facts and doing the right thing?” Lemel asked, when I visited her at the summer camp that she owns near the Pisgah National Forest. “Where did we, as a country, lose sight of doing right for right’s sake?”

Lol, “deep state” and RINOs everywhere!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 26, 2020, 09:10:53 AM
What I don't get is why are these people all quitting their positions? Why not stay on so they can exert their saneness to the otherwise cult like nature of many in the party? It means a hell of a lot more when a Republican in power who is against Trump stays in power. When you quit, what can you accomplish?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 26, 2020, 09:33:37 AM
What I don't get is why are these people all quitting their positions? Why not stay on so they can exert their saneness to the otherwise cult like nature of many in the party? It means a hell of a lot more when a Republican in power who is against Trump stays in power. When you quit, what can you accomplish?

They haven't quit their positions, they've merely quit their association with the Party of Trump Enablers:

http://www.transylvaniacounty.org/staff/mike-hawkins
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 26, 2020, 10:33:33 PM
What I don't get is why are these people all quitting their positions? Why not stay on so they can exert their saneness to the otherwise cult like nature of many in the party? It means a hell of a lot more when a Republican in power who is against Trump stays in power. When you quit, what can you accomplish?

They haven't quit their positions, they've merely quit their association with the Party of Trump Enablers:

http://www.transylvaniacounty.org/staff/mike-hawkins

Thanks for the clarification!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 26, 2020, 10:39:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-k8owuWlCo

Here Garry Kasparov - greatest chess player of all time, who was raised in the USSR, and a hero of mine, comments on the Trump administration. Grounded, evidence based, and not hyperbolic. Very refreshing to hear if you're not part of the cult.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Parsad on August 27, 2020, 12:05:17 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-k8owuWlCo

Here Garry Kasparov - greatest chess player of all time, who was raised in the USSR, and a hero of mine, comments on the Trump administration. Grounded, evidence based, and not hyperbolic. Very refreshing to hear if you're not part of the cult.

Unfortunately, most of what Garry wrote about is already here:

Apathy, nepotism, corruption, quid pro quo, party over country, undermining of democracy! 

Buffett said that even Trump won't hurt America...I beg to differ.   I think he's a the most dangerous individual threat to America as a democracy and to free speech, especially if he gets his claws in for a 2nd term and then 1st term for Pence/Kushner/Don Jr. 

The problem is that his agenda still appeals to his base...U.S. first, everyone else last...they see that as a rally cry, not a threat to democracy.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 27, 2020, 04:54:25 AM
I'm thinking that if the left gets in office that they'll try to end free speech. Look at these conservative speakers that were cancelled due to "hate speech" and whatnot. Ben Shaprio has been cancelled several times:

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/mar/12/shapiro-speech-canceled-for-second-time/

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 27, 2020, 05:51:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-k8owuWlCo

Here Garry Kasparov - greatest chess player of all time, who was raised in the USSR, and a hero of mine, comments on the Trump administration. Grounded, evidence based, and not hyperbolic. Very refreshing to hear if you're not part of the cult.

Unfortunately, most of what Garry wrote about is already here:

Apathy, nepotism, corruption, quid pro quo, party over country, undermining of democracy! 

Buffett said that even Trump won't hurt America...I beg to differ.   I think he's a the most dangerous individual threat to America as a democracy and to free speech, especially if he gets his claws in for a 2nd term and then 1st term for Pence/Kushner/Don Jr. 

The problem is that his agenda still appeals to his base...U.S. first, everyone else last...they see that as a rally cry, not a threat to democracy.  Cheers!

Yeah and Yuri Bezmenov a former KGB agent lays out in multiple lectures and interviews the tactics of "useful idiots" the liberal left" and how the KGB would work on breaking down social norms and order to destroy societies.

There is also Vladimir Jaffe (former citizen of soviet Russia) who goes to tons of rallies and protests to interview individuals.

It's easy to find smart individuals with all kinds of credentials to reinforce your opinion. And for what it's worth I have found the nepotism concerning from the beginning.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 06:15:31 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-k8owuWlCo

Here Garry Kasparov - greatest chess player of all time, who was raised in the USSR, and a hero of mine, comments on the Trump administration. Grounded, evidence based, and not hyperbolic. Very refreshing to hear if you're not part of the cult.

Apathy, nepotism, corruption, quid pro quo, party over country, undermining of democracy! 


“All politicians are the same” (false equivalence) leads to apathy and looking the other way at corruption, nepotism, quid pro quo, etc by a leader who revels in such tactics. Allows the Trumpers to say “Biden/Obama/Bush/Romney/Lincoln/Taft/etc are just as corrupt, nepotistic/etc” and excuse the much more egregious levels of corruption that Trumpism brings...

But of course Tulsi would have been different! Lol...

Attacking the existing system (“deep state”) as broken, corrupt (“swamp”) allows an even more corrupt swamp monster to emerge in power. This is how some of the worst leaders throughout history have grasped and retained power around the world.

The Russians are enjoying the show, that’s for sure...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 27, 2020, 06:35:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-k8owuWlCo

Here Garry Kasparov - greatest chess player of all time, who was raised in the USSR, and a hero of mine, comments on the Trump administration. Grounded, evidence based, and not hyperbolic. Very refreshing to hear if you're not part of the cult.

Unfortunately, most of what Garry wrote about is already here:


I know, but I hold him in high regard and I'm sure some here do so thought I'd share.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 27, 2020, 06:43:44 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-k8owuWlCo

Here Garry Kasparov - greatest chess player of all time, who was raised in the USSR, and a hero of mine, comments on the Trump administration. Grounded, evidence based, and not hyperbolic. Very refreshing to hear if you're not part of the cult.

Apathy, nepotism, corruption, quid pro quo, party over country, undermining of democracy! 


“All politicians are the same” (false equivalence) leads to apathy and looking the other way at corruption, nepotism, quid pro quo, etc by a leader who revels in such tactics. Allows the Trumpers to say “Biden/Obama/Bush/Romney/Lincoln/Taft/etc are just as corrupt, nepotistic/etc” and excuse the much more egregious levels of corruption that Trumpism brings...

But of course Tulsi would have been different! Lol...

Attacking the existing system (“deep state”) as broken, corrupt (“swamp”) allows an even more corrupt swamp monster to emerge in power. This is how some of the worst leaders throughout history have grasped and retained power around the world.

The Russians are enjoying the show, that’s for sure...

Things also used...

Villainizing banks, the rich, select people groups, religious individuals, property owners, landlords, business owners, capitalists, individual freedoms. Then talking from the perspective of "the collective commonwealth" and we're all in this together. Demonizing the police and any type of authority and then utilizing children and "the most vulnerable" to garner support.

How about actually provide some content for once? If you didn't like Tulsi explain why...I didn't even say I would have voted for her. Simply pointed out that she pulled voters from both sides of the aisle.

You've got a lot in common with Trump....all you do is insult and attack individuals. At least mix it up a bit...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 06:54:31 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-k8owuWlCo

Here Garry Kasparov - greatest chess player of all time, who was raised in the USSR, and a hero of mine, comments on the Trump administration. Grounded, evidence based, and not hyperbolic. Very refreshing to hear if you're not part of the cult.

Apathy, nepotism, corruption, quid pro quo, party over country, undermining of democracy! 


“All politicians are the same” (false equivalence) leads to apathy and looking the other way at corruption, nepotism, quid pro quo, etc by a leader who revels in such tactics. Allows the Trumpers to say “Biden/Obama/Bush/Romney/Lincoln/Taft/etc are just as corrupt, nepotistic/etc” and excuse the much more egregious levels of corruption that Trumpism brings...

But of course Tulsi would have been different! Lol...

Attacking the existing system (“deep state”) as broken, corrupt (“swamp”) allows an even more corrupt swamp monster to emerge in power. This is how some of the worst leaders throughout history have grasped and retained power around the world.

The Russians are enjoying the show, that’s for sure...

How about actually provide some content for once? If you didn't like Tulsi explain why...I didn't even say I would have voted for her. Simply pointed out that she pulled voters from both sides of the aisle.

I’m pointing out the flagrant flaws in your painting “all politicians are untrustworthy” including Michelle Obama (who is not really a politician and hated politics/WH and wanted out) but somehow championing one untested politician (Tulsi) as the savior of all. Surely Trump and people like you would not have dug up anything from Tulsi’s past to attack her if she were the nominee. Surely Trump would have yielded to the superior candidate and not come up with reasons why she too is corrupt/etc...

You seem to be worried about dems taking a whole lot of power like people worried about Obama becoming a dictator (lol). Yet at the same time, you think Biden is “sleepy Joe”. I’ve heard of few “sleepy” type people becoming power hungry, so you should not worry too much about Biden if you indeed do view him as “sleepy”.

As for most people, we can spot what Trump is a mile away: sociopath and “disgusting human being” (just ask some family members) and those are the types to watch out for if they are given power. So no, not all politicians are the same. The stakes are high.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 27, 2020, 06:54:47 AM
Social unrest is now a Russian conspiracy too? We need another Mueller report!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 06:57:56 AM
Social unrest is now a Russian conspiracy too? We need another Mueller report!

What’s amusing is the conservative tactics these days:

Points to social unrest happening under Trump Presidency (guy who cannot unite the country during tense moments and often pours gasoline on the flames)...

“You see, this is what America would become if we vote for the other guy!”  ::)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 27, 2020, 07:19:39 AM
Boy oh boy - this is not going the Democrats way - you can whine all you want about the Never-Trumpers -
but this new poll shows the Democrats are in big, big trouble:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/08/26/nolte-poll-shows-trump-approval-rating-record-52-percent/

Trump has jumped to 52 percent job approval.

Trump’s job approval among blacks sits at an impressive 36 percent approve, while 61 percent disapprove.
Hispanics approve of the president’s job at a 37 percent rate, compared to 65 percent who disapprove.
Asians sit at 35 percent approve, 63 percent disapprove.

Having 9% of the Black vote in 2016 - if Trump gets HALF of the Black approval number (36%) - Biden loses big-time.

Looks like Americans (Blacks too) are not as dumb as you guys think!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 27, 2020, 07:23:09 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-k8owuWlCo

Here Garry Kasparov - greatest chess player of all time, who was raised in the USSR, and a hero of mine, comments on the Trump administration. Grounded, evidence based, and not hyperbolic. Very refreshing to hear if you're not part of the cult.

Apathy, nepotism, corruption, quid pro quo, party over country, undermining of democracy! 


“All politicians are the same” (false equivalence) leads to apathy and looking the other way at corruption, nepotism, quid pro quo, etc by a leader who revels in such tactics. Allows the Trumpers to say “Biden/Obama/Bush/Romney/Lincoln/Taft/etc are just as corrupt, nepotistic/etc” and excuse the much more egregious levels of corruption that Trumpism brings...

But of course Tulsi would have been different! Lol...

Attacking the existing system (“deep state”) as broken, corrupt (“swamp”) allows an even more corrupt swamp monster to emerge in power. This is how some of the worst leaders throughout history have grasped and retained power around the world.

The Russians are enjoying the show, that’s for sure...

How about actually provide some content for once? If you didn't like Tulsi explain why...I didn't even say I would have voted for her. Simply pointed out that she pulled voters from both sides of the aisle.

I’m pointing out the flagrant flaws in your painting “all politicians are untrustworthy” including Michelle Obama (who is not really a politician and hated politics/WH and wanted out) but somehow championing one untested politician (Tulsi) as the savior of all. Surely Trump and people like you would not have dug up anything from Tulsi’s past to attack her if she were the nominee. Surely Trump would have yielded to the superior candidate and not come up with reasons why she too is corrupt/etc...

You seem to be worried about dems taking a whole lot of power like people worried about Obama becoming a dictator (lol). Yet at the same time, you think Biden is “sleepy Joe”. I’ve heard of few “sleepy” type people becoming power hungry, so you should not worry too much about Biden if you indeed do view him as “sleepy”.

As for most people, we can spot what Trump is a mile away: sociopath and “disgusting human being” (just ask some family members) and those are the types to watch out for if they are given power. So no, not all politicians are the same. The stakes are high.

Where did I say Tulsi was the savior for all? I said she (imo) was the most classic democratic candidate. Nothing more, nothing less. But please, continue to put words in my mouth.

Biden has had 40 years of terrible politics and Harris is beyond questionable as a VP. Her track record is even worse. Both have backgrounds completely contrary to the democratic platform.

You just contradict yourself so much. You complain about Trumps family in office but then champion Michelle Obama who starts every speech with "My husband....". You also probably endorsed Hillary who spent her career leeching off her husbands (pedo Bill) political connections!

If Tulsi was the candidate right now I probably would be voting for her. If Justin Amash was running I would be voting for him.

You're a hypocrite. And you support hypocrites.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 27, 2020, 07:25:52 AM
Social unrest is now a Russian conspiracy too? We need another Mueller report!

Context matters....but good bait and switch.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 07:32:32 AM

You just contradict yourself so much. You complain about Trumps family in office but then champion Michelle Obama who starts every speech with "My husband....".

Omg, no she didn’t!! Remember when Obama put Malia in charge of pandemic response too!?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 07:35:02 AM
Simple question:

If you had a daughter, would you rather she marry:

a) Young Joe Biden

b) Young Donald Trump

For some of us, the choice is an easy slam dunk. For others, “all son-in-laws are the same”!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 27, 2020, 07:40:50 AM
Simple question:

If you had a daughter, would you rather she marry:

a) Young Joe Biden

b) Young Donald Trump

For some of us, the choice is an easy slam dunk. For others, “all son-in-laws are the same”!

You have a good point there Dalai...

Kind of depends - if you want an "empty suit", but nice guy for a son-in-law - then it's Biden hands down.
47 year record of doing nothing in politics, but back slapping and enriching his family with the government porkbarrel.
But a great guy to hang around with during Thanksgiving dinner.

Even Obama tried to hide Joe as much as possible, lest he say something really dumb like "I told those Ukrainians, they won't get there $1B, unless
they fire the prosecutor" (that is after my son!)


Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 07:45:03 AM

You just contradict yourself so much. You complain about Trumps family in office but then champion Michelle Obama who starts every speech with "My husband....".

I just want to say—I love this quote from you Castanza because it perfectly sums up what you have been trying to do—excuse Trump’s egregious behavior (in this case obscene nepotism) by trying to equate it to something that isn’t even in the same ballpark.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 27, 2020, 07:55:33 AM

You just contradict yourself so much. You complain about Trumps family in office but then champion Michelle Obama who starts every speech with "My husband....".

I just want to say—I love this quote from you Castanza because it perfectly sums up what you have been trying to do—excuse Trump’s egregious behavior (in this case obscene nepotism) by trying to equate it to something that isn’t even in the same ballpark.

Where have I ever excused Trumps nepotism? I haven't been in favor of it since the beginning. In fact I just said I was against it in a comment replying to Sanjeev. If Trump hands the White House keys over to his son post term please let me know. I'll join you at the front gates of the White House and we can storm it together.  ;D
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 08:00:47 AM
Amusing that you play innocent...

You equated how Michelle Obama started her speeches to how Trump’s family is involved in the White House. Jared Kushner in charge of vaccine dev and telling states how many ventilators they’d get and playing diplomat in the Middle East for starters and we haven’t even discussed Ivanka. Did the Bush daughters do similar in the WH?

Like I said, not in the same ballpark and as much as people claim I chant False Equivalency too much, you are providing great examples of the fallacy in action.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Castanza on August 27, 2020, 10:10:58 AM
I thought Trump was the only dictator. Here is your favorite candidate from the last election discussing Biden. "Don't concede"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/hillary-clinton-says-biden-should-not-concede-2020-election-under-n1238156

Then you have Nancy Pelosi saying the GOP is an enemy of the State.

Meanwhile she has utterly destroyed congress and it's functionality. Justin Amash has been pointing out that nobody can make amendments to any bills while in session. Everything is done behind closed doors. In fact Nancy forced a vote on a 25B bill for the usps that didn't have a review hearing until after the vote!

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: stahleyp on August 27, 2020, 10:29:13 AM
Yes, breaking down the social norms is a big reason I'll probably vote against Biden. I don't want my kids being taught about "gender identity" nor do I want my daughter facing biological males in athletic competitions.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 11:23:51 AM
Lol, onto the next pieces of nonsense! Let’s deflect by bringing up what Hillary said...

No answer to my basic question...

“All son-in-laws are the same” it is!

Another day in La La Land...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 11:29:45 AM
Back to this thread’s topic of discussion:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/rnc-2020/article245262280.html

Quote
Far from Washington’s ornate Andrew W. Mellon Auditorium, site of this week’s Republican National Convention, some Republicans are broadcasting an alternative message from a gray, nondescript studio near uptown Charlotte.

That’s the temporary home of the Convention on Founding Principles, a virtual counter-convention targeting a national audience of Republicans and conservatives dissatisfied with President Donald Trump.

“Today’s Republican Party is the Trump party,” said Mindy Finn, one of the organizers. “And they make it very clear in their rhetoric that you either support Trump wholeheartedly or you’re not one of them.”

The counter-convention is one of several efforts to influence the election by disaffected Republicans and conservatives. Groups such as The Lincoln Project and Republican Voters Against Trump have spent millions on TV ads attacking the president. Democrats made their own appeal to Republicans by including convention speakers like former Ohio GOP Gov. John Kasich.


Clearly a lot of Republicans do not view an equivalency between Biden and Trump—strange! I have a feeling they might be able to answer the question about who they’d rather have marry into their family...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 27, 2020, 01:24:07 PM
Boy oh boy - this is not going the Democrats way - you can whine all you want about the Never-Trumpers -
but this new poll shows the Democrats are in big, big trouble:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/08/26/nolte-poll-shows-trump-approval-rating-record-52-percent/

Trump has jumped to 52 percent job approval.

Trump’s job approval among blacks sits at an impressive 36 percent approve, while 61 percent disapprove.
Hispanics approve of the president’s job at a 37 percent rate, compared to 65 percent who disapprove.
Asians sit at 35 percent approve, 63 percent disapprove.

Having 9% of the Black vote in 2016 - if Trump gets HALF of the Black approval number (36%) - Biden loses big-time.

Looks like Americans (Blacks too) are not as dumb as you guys think!

More trouble for the clueless Democrats:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/dems-fear-swing-state-damage-in-wisconsin-as-support-for-blm-craters-over-kenosha-riots

Dems Fear ‘Swing State Damage’ In Wisconsin As Support For BLM Craters Over Kenosha Riots

Indeed, the change in poll numbers seems to track alongside a change in sentiment toward Black Lives Matter among Wisconsin residents. A poll out Thursday shows support for the racial justice movement has all but cratered in the battleground state. Just a month ago, support was at 68%. Last month alone, that dropped 20 points to 48%.



Say goodbye to a Biden Presidency...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 01:50:17 PM
Oh no, guess it’s all over. Guess we’ll have to Make America Great Again...Again!

Who knows what great heights we can achieve with 4 more years !
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 27, 2020, 04:20:42 PM
Oh no, guess it’s all over. Guess we’ll have to Make America Great Again...Again!

Who knows what great heights we can achieve with 4 more years !

It's not really all over Dalal - you still have your hero nut job De Blasio - but you get to keep him for yourself
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 27, 2020, 05:07:52 PM
Oh no, guess it’s all over. Guess we’ll have to Make America Great Again...Again!

Who knows what great heights we can achieve with 4 more years !

It's not really all over Dalal - you still have your hero nut job De Blasio - but you get to keep him for yourself

Oh thats the best part of whats currently facing NYC/Chicago/LA....they get to keep their hell holes and live with the mess they voted for. I can simply invest in it from afar, and benefit if they ever get their shit together. And if not, well, despite the losses there is a little bit of satisfaction in seeing their demise due to arrogance, clearly avoidable self inflicted wounds and absolutely nonsensical policy...Oh, I have an idea! Lets tax people more and let felons out of jail! Oh, and while we're at it lets let homeless people invade the upper east side! LOL. A win/win for sure. Let them have what they deserve. Try not to get mugged on your way home from dinner! Oh yea, that is, if you're ever allowed to go back to a restaurant....
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 05:07:57 PM
Oh no, guess it’s all over. Guess we’ll have to Make America Great Again...Again!

Who knows what great heights we can achieve with 4 more years !

It's not really all over Dalal - you still have your hero nut job De Blasio - but you get to keep him for yourself

You mean the guy who I refer to as a clown? No thanks. Almost as bad as Trump.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 05:13:13 PM
More people defecting to “libtards”:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/unprecedented-wave-gop-defections-trump-nominated-analysis/story?id=72597003

Quote
What started as a trickle of "Never Trumpers" has turned into a historic wave of defections from high-profile Republicans.

By the close of the 2020 Republican National Convention, nearly 500 current and former GOP officials have gone public opposing a second term for the president of their own party.

"Absolutely unprecedented; nothing remotely like it," said presidential historian Mark Updegrove.

Lol, some of these folks worked in the admin so definitely not “Never Trumpers”:

(https://s-abcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/s.abcnews.com/images/Politics/republican-against-trump-ht-jt-200827_1598558020845_hpEmbed_16x9_992.jpg)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 27, 2020, 06:21:21 PM
What is the number of people who worked in the Trump administration that are now supporting Biden or refusing to support Trump? How does it compare to the number that were indicted or convicted? Asking just for fun
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 07:01:12 PM
What is the number of people who worked in the Trump administration that are now supporting Biden or refusing to support Trump? How does it compare to the number that were indicted or convicted? Asking just for fun

Neither of these numbers would match any President in the entire history of the United States, hence making the claim that Trump is “just like any other President we’ve had” utterly laughable.

Can you recall any time when a former Chief of Staff, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Adviser came out opposing the reelection of the President they served?

Add to that the number of his people indicted or under investigation and you get the ridiculousness of saying “Trump is just like any other politician”.  :o

The stakes are high.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: RadMan24 on August 27, 2020, 07:10:54 PM
What is the number of people who worked in the Trump administration that are now supporting Biden or refusing to support Trump? How does it compare to the number that were indicted or convicted? Asking just for fun

Neither of these numbers would match any President in the entire history of the United States, hence making the claim that Trump is “just like any other President we’ve had” utterly laughable.

Can you recall any time when a former Chief of Staff, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Adviser came out opposing the reelection of the President they served?

Add to that the number of his people indicted or under investigation and you get the ridiculousness of saying Trump “is just like any other politician”.

The stakes are high.

Why are the stakes high? Aren't they always high? But over time, good presidents outweigh bad ones, and America continues to prosper? Remember when everyone thought Bush was the worst president ever? Just think, one day there will be a president worse than Trump.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 27, 2020, 07:16:36 PM
What is the number of people who worked in the Trump administration that are now supporting Biden or refusing to support Trump? How does it compare to the number that were indicted or convicted? Asking just for fun

Neither of these numbers would match any President in the entire history of the United States, hence making the claim that Trump is “just like any other President we’ve had” utterly laughable.

Can you recall any time when a former Chief of Staff, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Adviser came out opposing the reelection of the President they served?

Add to that the number of his people indicted or under investigation and you get the ridiculousness of saying Trump “is just like any other politician”.

The stakes are high.

Why are the stakes high? Aren't they always high? But over time, good presidents outweigh bad ones, and America continues to prosper? Remember when everyone thought Bush was the worst president ever? Just think, one day there will be a president worse than Trump.

Like I said: “ Can you recall any time when a former Chief of Staff, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Adviser came out opposing the reelection of the President they served? ”

It’s like the son-in-law question. Giving a sociopath power is a lot different than comparing Gore v Bush. Kelly, Mattis, Bolton are warning you.

If you can’t read the warning signs, I can’t help you. You can fall for Castanza’s false equivalency and “Trump is just like other Presidents/politicians we’ve had” and “Michelle Obama is just as corrupt”.

Please feel free to extend this logic to your investments. “Warren Buffett is just like Bernie Madoff because he invests to make money for himself”. Clown logic leads to clown results.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 27, 2020, 09:18:04 PM
What is the number of people who worked in the Trump administration that are now supporting Biden or refusing to support Trump? How does it compare to the number that were indicted or convicted? Asking just for fun

Neither of these numbers would match any President in the entire history of the United States, hence making the claim that Trump is “just like any other President we’ve had” utterly laughable.

Can you recall any time when a former Chief of Staff, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Adviser came out opposing the reelection of the President they served?

Add to that the number of his people indicted or under investigation and you get the ridiculousness of saying Trump “is just like any other politician”.

The stakes are high.

Why are the stakes high? Aren't they always high? But over time, good presidents outweigh bad ones, and America continues to prosper? Remember when everyone thought Bush was the worst president ever? Just think, one day there will be a president worse than Trump.

Like I said: “ Can you recall any time when a former Chief of Staff, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Adviser came out opposing the reelection of the President they served? ”

It’s like the son-in-law question. Giving a sociopath power is a lot different than comparing Gore v Bush. Kelly, Mattis, Bolton are warning you.

If you can’t read the warning signs, I can’t help you. You can fall for Castanza’s false equivalency and “Trump is just like other Presidents/politicians we’ve had” and “Michelle Obama is just as corrupt”.

Please feel free to extend this logic to your investments. “Warren Buffett is just like Bernie Madoff because he invests to make money for himself”. Clown logic leads to clown results.

So you added some former staff to the "Never Trumper" list - big deal...... These guys did not get their way - with their endless wars, etc.
What they "forgot" is that Trump is President, not them. Trump has no problem stomping on big egos - just ask Mitt Romney!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 28, 2020, 04:36:21 AM

So you added some former staff to the "Never Trumper" list - big deal...... These guys did not get their way - with their endless wars, etc.
What they "forgot" is that Trump is President, not them. Trump has no problem stomping on big egos - just ask Mitt Romney!


Everyone else is wrong, only Trump is right in what’s best for us—perfect demonstration of how you enable a sociopath and how some of the worst leaders in history have stayed in power with the support of some people. History rhymes.

Btw—if they were once a part of his staff, by definition they cannot be “Never Trumpers”. Oh well...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 28, 2020, 07:48:49 AM
Sad, sad night for the Democrats. They revealed their alignment with violent Black-Lives-Matter and Antifa last night after the RNC.
They attacked congressmen, Black Trump supporters and others leaving the Whitehouse grounds in our nation's capital.

It's all out in the open now: While the DNC ignored and made believe that violence is "peaceful protesting" - they showed their true colors
after the stunningly successful RNC concluded.

What more could they do?   Democrats hide their policies from the electorate - and they believe violence will save them.

Biden/Harris are done.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 28, 2020, 07:55:35 AM
Sad, sad night for the Democrats. They revealed their alignment with violent Black-Lives-Matter and Antifa last night after the RNC.
They attacked congressmen, Black Trump supporters and others leaving the Whitehouse grounds in our nation's capital.

It's all out in the open now: While the DNC ignored and made believe that violence is "peaceful protesting" - they showed their true colors
after the stunningly successful RNC concluded.

What more could they do?   Democrats hide their policies from the electorate - and they believe violence will save them.

Biden/Harris are done.
The opposite interpretation is that more people are fact checking people like you who repeat Trump's lies and as Schwab711 previously mentioned, you are misrepresenting Biden's platform. If more people realize that Biden's platform is a centrist platform, that nutcases and violent antifa do not represent the left, and Trump is lying about it like most everything else, then that is not good for Trump.

If BLM has finally jumped the shark, that could be a great thing for Biden in my opinion. Divisiveness, animosity, and violence is not what a unity candidate wants or what most of America wants, but it is what Trump wants.

It's really time that you consider that if you are repeating obvious falsehoods, or inflammatory claims that are so vague as to be unverifiable that you may be repeating disinformation and that you are in fact part of the problem that the USA faces.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 28, 2020, 07:57:47 AM
More R's becoming "libtards":

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8658323/Former-Arizona-senator-Jeff-Flake-leads-dozens-Republicans-against-Trump-ex-lawmakers.html

Quote
Former Arizona senator Jeff Flake is leading dozens of 'Republicans against Trump' on the first day of the National Convention in Charlotte.

Flake is among a number of well-known conservative Trump critics to throw their support behind Joe Biden, including Sens. Gordon Humphrey of New Hampshire (now an independent) and John Warner of Virginia.

Fox News reported that he is joined by a raft of former lawmakers, including:

Reps. Steve Bartlett of Texas, Bill Clinger of Pennsylvania, Tom Coleman of Missouri, Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania, Charles Djou of Hawaii, Mickey Edwards of Oklahoma, Wayne Gilchrest of Maryland, Jim Greenwood of Pennsylvania, Bob Inglis of South Carolina, Jim Kolbe of Arizona, Steve Kuykendall of California, Ray LaHood of Illinois (who served as Transportation secretary in the Obama administration), Jim Leach of Iowa, Connie Morella of Maryland, Mike Parker of Mississippi, Jack Quinn of New York, Claudine Schneider of Rhode Island, Chris Shays of Connecticut, Peter Smith of Vermont, Alan Steelman of Texas, Bill Whitehurst of Virginia, Dick Zimmer of New Jersey, and Jim Walsh of New York.

Clearly these RINOs need to talk with some of the folks on here about how Biden/Harris are just like Trump. All the same just like every other politician who can't be trusted, after all! Derp Derp...

They're all part of the deep state.
It's times like this that I wish the deep state existed.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 28, 2020, 08:15:11 AM
Sad, sad night for the Democrats. They revealed their alignment with violent Black-Lives-Matter and Antifa last night after the RNC.
They attacked congressmen, Black Trump supporters and others leaving the Whitehouse grounds in our nation's capital.

It's all out in the open now: While the DNC ignored and made believe that violence is "peaceful protesting" - they showed their true colors
after the stunningly successful RNC concluded.

What more could they do?   Democrats hide their policies from the electorate - and they believe violence will save them.

Biden/Harris are done.
The opposite interpretation is that more people are fact checking people like you who repeat Trump's lies and as Schwab711 previously mentioned, you are misrepresenting Biden's platform. If more people realize that Biden's platform is a centrist platform, that nutcases and violent antifa do not represent the left, and Trump is lying about it like most everything else, then that is not good for Trump.

If BLM has finally jumped the shark, that could be a great thing for Biden in my opinion. Divisiveness, animosity, and violence is not what a unity candidate wants or what most of America wants, but it is what Trump wants.

It's really time that you consider that if you are repeating obvious falsehoods, or inflammatory claims that are so vague as to be unverifiable that you may be repeating disinformation and that you are in fact part of the problem that the USA faces.

Sorry you are so full of shit and blind to the truth RTF - really not my problem that are on the wrong side of this issue once again.

The Democratic leadership for 3 full months has had an opportunity to denounce violence, arson, looting, etc - and of course, they failed to do so.
You may want this leadership to take over this country, but I don't.

So as far as lies - tell me more about this issue, Russia hoaxes, Ukrainian hoaxes, etc

It's all having a very familiar ring to it.

For someone that prides himself as so analytical - you are obviously blind to what's happening in America - and fail to admit that
the Democratic Party has been overtaken by radicals.

You are a good guy I know - but go ahead and go down with the ship. It's your reputation, not mine.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 28, 2020, 08:24:52 AM
Quote
If BLM has finally jumped the shark, that could be a great thing for Biden in my opinion. Divisiveness, animosity, and violence is not what a unity candidate wants or what most of America wants, but it is what Trump wants.

Exactly. Trump gets more votes from inflaming his base by pointing to BLM.

cubsfan loves to blame the democrats for current social unrest, but refuses to acknowledge that democrats are not in office. it is political shilling at the finest.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 28, 2020, 09:01:25 AM
Quote
If BLM has finally jumped the shark, that could be a great thing for Biden in my opinion. Divisiveness, animosity, and violence is not what a unity candidate wants or what most of America wants, but it is what Trump wants.

Exactly. Trump gets more votes from inflaming his base by pointing to BLM.

cubsfan loves to blame the democrats for current social unrest, but refuses to acknowledge that democrats are not in office. it is political shilling at the finest.

Nice slight of hand LC.

Portland, NY, Seattle, Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Kenosha, LA - all wonderful racial utopias created and ruled by Democrats for years.
All now dangerously exposed for the hells they are due to failed Democratic leadership and policies. Horrible schools, burned out shells, etc.
Who suffered most?     The minorities that live there.

Your problems is that the Blacks have caught on.

Your problem is Democratic leadership with their tacit approval of BLM and Antifa:
"Summer of Love"
"It's a block party"
"let them vent"
"peaceful protests"
blah, blah, blah

And they think blacks are so dumb to fall for "Trump is the problem" - when Democrats are in total control of their political districts.

Tell us more nonsense LC
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 28, 2020, 09:59:02 AM
Trying to debate with diehard Trump supporters is mostly a waste of time as they simply regurgitate everything Trump says. The sad part is that many - not all - actually believe all the lies, exaggerations and the other garbage Trump spews. 

It was certain people here that Trump referred to when the said he could “go out on 5th avenue and shoot someone and not lose any supporters.” Doesn’t matter what crap he says they believe it to be the truth.

The sad thing is that, like the narcissistic sociopath that he is, Trump was actually laughing at those brainwashed followers when he made that statement and yet they took it as some kind of compliment. It was an obvious insult and it is rather sad that they don't understand that.                   
   
Fortunately not all of the previous Trump supporters fall into that category. Many have come to realize that he is not what they thought he would be. Remember all those who said, ‘oh well, he will not act so stupid when he comes to power, he is just trying to get the redneck vote’.

Unfortunately his campaign behavior was just the shape of things to come and that is why the title of this thread is “Republican Voters Against Trump”. Hopefully there are enough of those reasonable people who can think for themselves and can see Trump for what he is and reject him in November.

If not the country is in for a rough ride.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 28, 2020, 10:09:35 AM
Trying to debate with diehard Trump supporters is mostly a waste of time as they simply regurgitate everything Trump says. The sad part is that many - not all - actually believe all the lies, exaggerations and the other garbage Trump spews. 

It was certain people here that Trump referred to when the said he could “go out on 5th avenue and shoot someone and not lose any supporters.” Doesn’t matter what crap he says they believe it to be the truth.

The sad thing is that, like the narcissistic sociopath that he is, Trump was actually laughing at those brainwashed followers when he made that statement and yet they took it as some kind of compliment. It was an obvious insult and it is rather sad that they don't understand that.                   
   
Fortunately not all of the previous Trump supporters fall into that category. Many have come to realize that he is not what they thought he would be. Remember all those who said, ‘oh well, he will not act so stupid when he comes to power, he is just trying to get the redneck vote’.

Unfortunately his campaign behavior was just the shape of things to come and that is why the title of this thread is “Republican Voters Against Trump”. Hopefully there are enough of those reasonable people who can think for themselves and can see Trump for what he is and reject him in November.

If not the country is in for a rough ride.

Tha stakes are high!!!!!!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 28, 2020, 10:13:10 AM
I agree - trying to debate with you is a total waste of time.

You can ignore last night's violence in Washington, DC - as if it did not happen. That will put you right up there with the LEFT trying to
smoke screen the American public "look, nothing there".

And of course, you'll not address the violence in the Democratic cities that has overtaken this country - "it's really not happening"

Which would make you an excellent leader for any of these Democratic cities.

Continue on with your reality distortion field - it's just working anymore and will cost the idiot Democrats the Presidency.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 28, 2020, 10:27:02 AM
Aaa, just thought i would point out that while the cities are burning and a disease is running out of control and sweeping the nation that this is all happening on Donald Trump’s watch - not Joe Biden’s.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 28, 2020, 10:27:32 AM
Portland, NY, Seattle, Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Kenosha, LA - all wonderful racial utopias created and ruled by Democrats for years.
First is was the east coast liberal elites that were the problem.
Then it was the coastal elites that were the problem, and the flyover states were fine.
Now, it's towns in the Midwest with 100,000 residents?
I guess those flyover states better be on guard because he's coming for them next, if he gets reelected.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 28, 2020, 10:34:30 AM
Aaa, just thought i would point out that while the cities are burning and a disease is running out of control and sweeping the nation that this is all happening on Donald Trump’s watch - not Joe Biden’s.
"You can't. You can't do that."

https://youtu.be/fqVpU3bEfaE?t=34

"You have to go by. . . You have to go by" . . . the buck doesn't stop with Trump.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cwericb on August 28, 2020, 10:38:51 AM
"And of course, you'll not address the violence in the Democratic cities that has overtaken this country - "it's really not happening"

Oh yes and I suppose those rioters are all Democrat voters. Yup.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 28, 2020, 01:38:49 PM
Portland, NY, Seattle, Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Kenosha, LA - all wonderful racial utopias created and ruled by Democrats for years.
First is was the east coast liberal elites that were the problem.
Then it was the coastal elites that were the problem, and the flyover states were fine.
Now, it's towns in the Midwest with 100,000 residents?
I guess those flyover states better be on guard because he's coming for them next, if he gets reelected.

I don't think you need to worry about the Midwest flyover states - most of them will go Trump like in 2016.
But there are still fucked up Democratic strongholds here - that are paying the price for their Democratic rule.

Like the "Blue Wall" that came crashing down in 2016 - you might get to add a few more.

No need to worry about your liberal strongholds in NY and CA and Chicago too - it will get more and more Democratic, as those with money
flee to Florida, Texas, Tennessee - along with their significant tax dollars.  Bill De Blasio and Gavin Newsome are safe from Trump!
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 29, 2020, 09:00:12 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/rnc-ratings-final-night-draws-23-8-million-viewers-as-trump-accepts-nomination-11598652831

Quote
About 23.8 million viewers tuned in to President Trump’s prime-time convention speech Thursday night, according to Nielsen, a smaller audience than the one that watched former Vice President Joe Biden accept the Democratic Party nomination last week.

Television viewership of Thursday’s event was 3.2% smaller than the fourth night of the Democratic National Convention, which drew 24.6 million people, and 26% smaller than Mr. Trump’s 2016 address to the Republican National Convention, according to Nielsen.

Mr. Trump’s speech, a 70-minute address that described his opponent as an untrustworthy career politician, sought to frame the election as a life-or-death decision between the Trump administration and a prospective Biden administration, which he said would be a “Trojan horse for socialism.”

Fewer muppets to swallow the b.s. this time around. Or maybe just too busy facing the real "life-or-death" situation as a result of gross pandemic mismanagement.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 30, 2020, 07:19:48 AM
Sorry to see this - Black-Lives-Matter Criminals coming to Canada:

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/08/30/watch-statue-of-canadas-first-prime-minister-ripped-down-decapitated-by-abolish-the-police-blm-supporters/

One of the USA's worst exports ever unfortunately. Feel free to blame Trump though.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 30, 2020, 07:29:57 AM
Guess Canada will have to build a wall on its Southern Border to protect it from Trump's America of social stability...maybe they can get America to pay for it...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/30/us/portland-trump-rally-shooting.html

Sorry to see Trumpers crossing state lines to stir up more "Greatness":

Quote
PORTLAND, Ore. — A man was shot and killed Saturday as a large group of supporters of President Trump traveled in a caravan through downtown Portland, Ore., which has seen nightly protests for three consecutive months.

The pro-Trump rally drew hundreds of trucks full of supporters into the city. At times, Trump supporters and counterprotesters clashed on the streets, with people shooting paintball guns from the beds of pickup trucks and protesters throwing objects back at them.

"Trump the uniter", "healer of wounds". And his supporters used to call Obama a "divider"...LOL

Canada better get working on that wall pronto.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 30, 2020, 08:02:38 AM
Black-Lives-Matter and Antifa Criminals murder Trump supporter in Portland:

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2020/08/29/nyt-portland-homicide-victim-had-patriot-prayer-hat/

Sorry - videos are graphic..
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Cigarbutt on August 30, 2020, 08:05:43 AM
Sorry to see this - Black-Lives-Matter Criminals coming to Canada:
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/08/30/watch-statue-of-canadas-first-prime-minister-ripped-down-decapitated-by-abolish-the-police-blm-supporters/
One of the USA's worst exports ever unfortunately. Feel free to blame Trump though.
i will contribute here because the history is interesting (and controversial) but this "movement" has its own domestic roots.
John A. Macdonald was our first prime minister and one of the founding fathers. He was (and has become more so over time, especially in the last few years) a controversial figure. He was a driving force behind the transcontinental railway link that formed the backbone of Canada but was also an ardent supporter of indigenous population forced assimilation (including the residential school system which was a catastrophe for communities, from pretty much any ideological point of view) and this notion has been the driving force behind various actions in the last few years, a movement recently reinforced by the anti-systemic racism movement.
History has to be continuously updated and this may require context or even physical changes. Violent removals of historical figures is wrong but history is sometimes slow. :-\
The Square where the statue was erected in 1895 is beautiful, has historically been considered a symbol of British imperialism and is a typical spot where manifestations originate or go through. American friends would have a hard time believing the context that led to significant student manifestations there in 2012 (higher education is close to being "free" here and the turmoil had been caused by an announcement of very minor adjustments, in comparison to various neighbors).
For those interested and who happen to pass by Kingston, Ontario, the city there, which is sort of caught in the controversy, has maintained a beautiful site with the house where the controversial figure lived and planned various political strategies. The site is worth the visit but its future is subject to historical adjustments.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 30, 2020, 08:49:22 AM
Black-Lives-Matter and Antifa Criminals murder Trump supporter in Portland:

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2020/08/29/nyt-portland-homicide-victim-had-patriot-prayer-hat/

Sorry - videos are graphic..

Lol, Breitbart news...when will they launch a financial section? Should lead to great investment results.

And yet "Trump the uniter" told us we'd be tired of all the winning at this point in his term! Who's to blame? Oh yeah the liberal governors (except in Georgia, then you blame the liberal mayors)! A shame he didn't reveal that we would only "win" if everything went in his favor. Like a losing gambler who "would have won if only I had been dealt the right cards!"
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 30, 2020, 12:23:49 PM
Black-Lives-Matter and Antifa Criminals murder Trump supporter in Portland:

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2020/08/29/nyt-portland-homicide-victim-had-patriot-prayer-hat/

Sorry - videos are graphic..

Lol, Breitbart news...when will they launch a financial section? Should lead to great investment results.

And yet "Trump the uniter" told us we'd be tired of all the winning at this point in his term! Who's to blame? Oh yeah the liberal governors (except in Georgia, then you blame the liberal mayors)! A shame he didn't reveal that we would only "win" if everything went in his favor. Like a losing gambler who "would have won if only I had been dealt the right cards!"

Dude you really are a loser if you can't face the truth. Too bad.

It's all on video - but go ahead - cheer the killing of a Trump supporter.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 30, 2020, 12:55:09 PM
Black-Lives-Matter and Antifa Criminals murder Trump supporter in Portland:

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2020/08/29/nyt-portland-homicide-victim-had-patriot-prayer-hat/

Sorry - videos are graphic..

Lol, Breitbart news...when will they launch a financial section? Should lead to great investment results.

And yet "Trump the uniter" told us we'd be tired of all the winning at this point in his term! Who's to blame? Oh yeah the liberal governors (except in Georgia, then you blame the liberal mayors)! A shame he didn't reveal that we would only "win" if everything went in his favor. Like a losing gambler who "would have won if only I had been dealt the right cards!"

Dude you really are a loser if you can't face the truth. Too bad.

It's all on video - but go ahead - cheer the killing of a Trump supporter.

No one is cheering a killing. I'm mocking our President's knack for pouring gasoline on fires (the opposite of what one would want a President to do...). Hence his 70 minute "Law and Order" speech on Thursday that not many people watched, but this Trump caravan used (along with his usual divisive rhetoric) to rally and head to Portland to stew more conflict and violence. OMG it's another caravan--like the one from Mexico, except this one is okay because it's a MAGA caravan!

He's headed to Kenosha this week. Surely a visit from our "healer in chief" will calm things down and not make them worse! This guy knows how to makes things better, not worse! It's called #SoMuchWinning, Obama was the divider, Trump the uniter! Derp Derp...
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 30, 2020, 01:07:16 PM
I know this is a politics section but I am trying to stay as apolitical as possible when I ask- what're some good bets that will pay off huge in the case of a civil war? Looking for something really asymmetric.

Also how would you play the sale of Alaska and other U.S. states to Russia? Or an outright invasion of the U.S. by Russia forces? Would you go long options on ruble futures? Short treasuries?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 30, 2020, 01:22:47 PM
I know this is a politics section but I am trying to stay as apolitical as possible when I ask- what're some good bets that will pay off huge in the case of a civil war? Looking for something really asymmetric.

Also how would you play the sale of Alaska and other U.S. states to Russia? Or an outright invasion of the U.S. by Russia forces? Would you go long options on ruble futures? Short treasuries?

Meh, these all sound like overly specific, tail scenarios. If Trump wins, the right move is probably to find a way to short USD. Hell, even if he loses, the USD looks at risk due to pendulum swinging the other way and left of center (MMT, inflationary) policies being enacted and all the debt/easing we've taken on to compensate for gross pandemic mismanagement.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 30, 2020, 01:29:25 PM
I know this is a politics section but I am trying to stay as apolitical as possible when I ask- what're some good bets that will pay off huge in the case of a civil war? Looking for something really asymmetric.

Also how would you play the sale of Alaska and other U.S. states to Russia? Or an outright invasion of the U.S. by Russia forces? Would you go long options on ruble futures? Short treasuries?

Meh, these all sound like overly specific, tail scenarios. If Trump wins, the right move is probably to find a way to short USD. Hell, even if he loses, the USD looks at risk due to pendulum swinging the other way and left of center (MMT, inflationary) policies being enacted and all the debt/easing we've taken on to compensate for gross pandemic mismanagement.

My post was mainly in jest because I think it's absurd that we are even at this point in our country.

There is no convincing the other side that the guy is an immense threat to the very fabric of Democracy, in the U.S. and worldwide. Thus might as well try to invest based on it.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 30, 2020, 01:53:41 PM
Might as well line your bets up. With a 24% approval rating among Blacks - Biden is a goner for sure.

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: LC on August 30, 2020, 02:39:49 PM
I've argued before and I'll do so again, I think the President doesn't have as much influence over the economy as they like to claim.

More importantly I would look to the underlying forces driving US competitiveness, make an educated opinion (or none at all) and invest accordingly.

I personally am trying to look at forces that will continue regardless of who is elected.
-Increased reliance on technology and communication
-Continuous rise of China as an economic and political power (perhaps accelerated build-out of Africa as a result?)
-Continued reduction of costs of most forms of capital (human and energy, in particular)
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 30, 2020, 02:56:13 PM
I've argued before and I'll do so again, I think the President doesn't have as much influence over the economy as they like to claim.

Depends. If you happen to be a President during a once in a century pandemic and you politicize it along with mask wearing, thereby allowing it to stretch for 6 months or longer, then what you chose to do will have great impact on the economy for a while. How you navigate a black swan as President you can have huge, long lasting impacts on the economy. There are few Presidents who serve at such pivotal moments. One would also think of Bush-Obama administrations during critical GFC moments as making decisions/avoiding pitfalls that rendered massive, long lasting effects on the economy. If Bush chose to pass on TARP, for example, you get the picture. There's also the contrast between Herbert Hoover and FDR (Great Depression).

Most Presidents may not impact the economy much over their terms because most are not serving during critical times/black swan events like these. Unfortunately it doesn't apply to our current case where we are indeed in such a scenario (the scale of fiscal/monetary intervention should tell you as much).
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 30, 2020, 03:20:59 PM
Might as well line your bets up. With a 24% approval rating among Blacks - Biden is a goner for sure.

Not a good look for the loser Democrats. (I know, I know - it's Trump's fault!)

https://www.breitbart.com/law-and-order/2020/08/30/willie-brown-to-democrats-and-media-stop-calling-riots-demonstrations/

Willie Brown to Democrats and Media: Stop Calling Riots ‘Demonstrations’

Former San Francisco mayor and California State Assembly speaker Willie Brown wrote Saturday that Democrats should stop calling riots “demonstrations” because “burning and looting” will help re-elect President Donald Trump.


“Burning and looting in the name of justice will hand election to Trump,” Brown wrote: “The biggest threat to a Democratic election sweep in November isn’t the Republican in the White House, but the demonstrators who are tearing up cities in the name of racial justice.”




Why are Democrats going out of their way to re-elect Trump?  Strange isn't it?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 30, 2020, 03:57:50 PM
Bidens political strategists must all be working for Trump. Any idiot lefty really has to be besides themself with what is currently happening, again.

The biggest mistake he continues to make is pandering to the socialists and extreme left. This idiot should be taking hardline stances on some of the same, more moderate(not to mention no brainer) areas that Trump does, such as on violence and crime. If Biden took the same stance as Trump on middle ground issues, he'd certainly have better chances. But as it currently stands, the dude seems to be spending just as much, if not more time, trying to win over the extreme left lol. Which is odd, because these are the crazies that will never vote Trump, period. Which is politics 101...dont waste time on the vote that isn't in question. Whereas on the other side, you are seeing Trump go hard after the black vote and suburban white women. How is Biden and his team this stupid?
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 30, 2020, 04:09:19 PM
Bidens political strategists must all be working for Trump. Any idiot lefty really has to be besides themself with what is currently happening, again.

How is Biden and his team this stupid?

It is, indeed, totally baffling.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Mephistopheles on August 30, 2020, 04:26:24 PM
Bidens political strategists must all be working for Trump. Any idiot lefty really has to be besides themself with what is currently happening, again.

The biggest mistake he continues to make is pandering to the socialists and extreme left. This idiot should be taking hardline stances on some of the same, more moderate(not to mention no brainer) areas that Trump does, such as on violence and crime. If Biden took the same stance as Trump on middle ground issues, he'd certainly have better chances. But as it currently stands, the dude seems to be spending just as much, if not more time, trying to win over the extreme left lol. Which is odd, because these are the crazies that will never vote Trump, period. Which is politics 101...dont waste time on the vote that isn't in question. Whereas on the other side, you are seeing Trump go hard after the black vote and suburban white women. How is Biden and his team this stupid?

Well the extreme left is full of a whole bunch of degenerates who would stay home if they don't get their socialist platform. Biden being fairly moderate is in a tricky situation having to appeal to them while also appealing to moderate Republicans while risking alienating both, but especially the self-righteous Bernie bros.

Trump on the other hand has the extreme right as his loyal base who will blindly vote for him regardless if he shoots someone on 5th avenue or "likes" a tweet that is supportive of the Kenosha shooter (he did that today). So he can expend all his appeal to minorities and he will be fine.

Not saying it's the correct strategy, but that's likely what the problem is.

Btw, there were quite a few Sanders supporters who voted Trump in '16 purely because they were so upset they didn't get their way. So there is a real chance of Biden losing these idiots.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Gregmal on August 30, 2020, 04:29:57 PM
Bidens political strategists must all be working for Trump. Any idiot lefty really has to be besides themself with what is currently happening, again.

The biggest mistake he continues to make is pandering to the socialists and extreme left. This idiot should be taking hardline stances on some of the same, more moderate(not to mention no brainer) areas that Trump does, such as on violence and crime. If Biden took the same stance as Trump on middle ground issues, he'd certainly have better chances. But as it currently stands, the dude seems to be spending just as much, if not more time, trying to win over the extreme left lol. Which is odd, because these are the crazies that will never vote Trump, period. Which is politics 101...dont waste time on the vote that isn't in question. Whereas on the other side, you are seeing Trump go hard after the black vote and suburban white women. How is Biden and his team this stupid?

Well the extreme left is full of a whole bunch of degenerates who would stay home if they don't get their socialist platform. Biden being fairly moderate is in a tricky situation having to appeal to them while also appealing to moderate Republicans while risking alienating both, but especially the self-righteous Bernie bros.

Trump on the other hand has the extreme right as his loyal base who will blindly vote for him regardless if he shoots someone on 5th avenue or "likes" a tweet that is supportive of the Kenosha shooter (he did that today). So he can expend all his appeal to minorities and he will be fine.

Not saying it's the correct strategy, but that's likely what the problem is.

Btw, there were quite a few Sanders supporters who voted Trump in '16 purely because they were so upset they didn't get their way. So there is a real chance of Biden losing these idiots.

Competency tests for voters would help. But thats un-American. Although frankly, it seems both sides dont really care for large aspects of what America is becoming....maybe its time to roll some dice.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 30, 2020, 05:42:54 PM
Should be interesting after the election - should Trump win - and watch the accusations fly.

You'd think these guys would have learned. They let the LEFT take over the party, and now it's toast, since they can't control the LEFT.
Biden truly is a moderate, that selected a radical for his VP - and Biden therefore, does NOT know what he stands for.

Like you could not see this coming a mile away.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Jurgis on August 30, 2020, 06:55:11 PM
I know this is a politics section but I am trying to stay as apolitical as possible when I ask- what're some good bets that will pay off huge in the case of a civil war? Looking for something really asymmetric.

Also how would you play the sale of Alaska and other U.S. states to Russia? Or an outright invasion of the U.S. by Russia forces? Would you go long options on ruble futures? Short treasuries?

First step: move to Australia.

Edit: ah, I read the post was in jest. In that case, first step: move to Mars.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 31, 2020, 07:09:06 AM
Criminals from Black-Lives-Matter and Antifa murder a Trump supporter in Portland - then celebrate his death:

"Hey, We got a Trumper right here!"  Shots fired killing man
"He was a f*cking NAZI"
"I am not sad a f*cking NAZI died tonight"
The Antifa crowd laughs and cheers.

It's all on video folks:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/right-wing-protester-killed-in-portland-after-democrat-mayor-refused-federal-help-antifa-celebrates?fbclid=IwAR3vhV8FiSiQDC6zV9bzHc4VQ3JguvXi2kU7KDuldUoeoVayYBWAeNm6vbc

Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 31, 2020, 08:51:57 AM
Gotta love the sociopath’s antics:

Quote
Hilarious that Trump literally blames all his problems on the last President and the next President.
https://twitter.com/jeremynewberger/status/1300378901412302850?s=20

Quote
Saying Bidens America will be worse than our current America, Is like an abusive spouse telling you that you can't do any better.
https://twitter.com/Infantry0300/status/1300369927136837632?s=20
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 31, 2020, 10:36:15 AM
Criminals from Black-Lives-Matter and Antifa murder a Trump supporter in Portland - then celebrate his death:

"Hey, We got a Trumper right here!"  Shots fired killing man
"He was a f*cking NAZI"
"I am not sad a f*cking NAZI died tonight"
The Antifa crowd laughs and cheers.

It's all on video folks:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/right-wing-protester-killed-in-portland-after-democrat-mayor-refused-federal-help-antifa-celebrates?fbclid=IwAR3vhV8FiSiQDC6zV9bzHc4VQ3JguvXi2kU7KDuldUoeoVayYBWAeNm6vbc

Followup on murder story:

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2020/08/31/report-portland-shooting-suspect-100-antifa-cited-released-on-weapons-charge-july/

Report: Portland Shooting Suspect ‘100% Antifa’; Cited, Released on Weapons Charge in July Riot

A 48-year-old man who was accused of carrying a loaded gun at an earlier downtown Portland protest is under investigation in the fatal shooting Saturday night of a right-wing demonstrator after a pro-Trump rally.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 31, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
Criminals from Black-Lives-Matter and Antifa murder a Trump supporter in Portland - then celebrate his death:

"Hey, We got a Trumper right here!"  Shots fired killing man
"He was a f*cking NAZI"
"I am not sad a f*cking NAZI died tonight"
The Antifa crowd laughs and cheers.

It's all on video folks:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/right-wing-protester-killed-in-portland-after-democrat-mayor-refused-federal-help-antifa-celebrates?fbclid=IwAR3vhV8FiSiQDC6zV9bzHc4VQ3JguvXi2kU7KDuldUoeoVayYBWAeNm6vbc

Followup on murder story:

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2020/08/31/report-portland-shooting-suspect-100-antifa-cited-released-on-weapons-charge-july/

Report: Portland Shooting Suspect ‘100% Antifa’; Cited, Released on Weapons Charge in July Riot

A 48-year-old man who was accused of carrying a loaded gun at an earlier downtown Portland protest is under investigation in the fatal shooting Saturday night of a right-wing demonstrator after a pro-Trump rally.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I find it hard to believe that anyone would expect good things from attending a riot after a curfew.
Three people dead in Portland and Kenosha, and two people facing serious legal trouble. So much winning and so many Darwin awards. Sadly, Trump will probably go on encouraging his followers to win Darwin Awards, because he loves his followers and this country so much.  ::)

Of course, he will kill many more by undermining the seriousness of the pandemic and the importance of masks. 180,000/3= 60,000. So at least 60,000x more people already dead from SARS 2.0 and which is getting more attention from people who get angry at viral videos they watch, but can't understand a virus they can't see?

IHME is currently predicting 317,312 US deaths from SARS 2.0 by December 1. Annual US police shootings of all races is around 1,000 per year. How many of those shootings are easily preventable and unjustified? Even if we assume police shootings are 100% preventable unjustified murders, these unnecessary deaths are still dwarfed by the number of people who will die unnecessarily because of the mismanagement of the SARS 2.0 pandemic. What portion of the 180,000 who have already died could have been saved by competent management?

IHME is currently predicting that nearly 70,000 lives cold be saved in the USA by December 1, if a universal masking policy were put in place. 70,000 is a much larger number than 3 (Portland and Kenosha riot deaths), or 1,000 (total estimated US police shootings).

What is likely to happen? I would guess that Trump will dehumanize the left and try to enrage his base. Some of his base will go out and bear spray some street criminals who will shoot them and kill them. If this exact scenario doesn't happen in the future, something equally stupid might. And Trump will ignore and minimize SARS 2.0 and at least 70,000 people will lose their lives unnecessarily and Trump will have additional blood on his hands. Trump will continue to wave bright shiny objects in front of his followers who will be distracted by their anger and will make excuses for him.

As they say, if you're going to steal, go big. Small crimes don't pay.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=total-deaths&tab=trend
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 31, 2020, 01:19:49 PM
Stupid-is---as-stupid-does..

Trump needs no help in "dehumanizing" the LEFT - they are doing an excellent job themselves - and handing the election to Trump..

If your political supporters, BLM and Antifa, and the media - call this peaceful protesting and civil unrest - and fail to denounce it -
well, just leave it to the average American to figure it out.

One party stands for Law and Order

One party stands for Anarchy and Chaos.

Given the actions and support of the Democratic Party the last 3 months - the decision is becoming very easy.  A big thanks to the LEFT.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 31, 2020, 04:10:14 PM
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I find it hard to believe that anyone would expect good things from attending a riot after a curfew.
Three people dead in Portland and Kenosha, and two people facing serious legal trouble. So much winning and so many Darwin awards. Sadly, Trump will probably go on encouraging his followers to win Darwin Awards, because he loves his followers and this country so much.  ::)

Of course, he will kill many more by undermining the seriousness of the pandemic and the importance of masks. 180,000/3= 60,000. So at least 60,000x more people already dead from SARS 2.0 and which is getting more attention from people who get angry at viral videos they watch, but can't understand a virus they can't see?

IHME is currently predicting 317,312 US deaths from SARS 2.0 by December 1. Annual US police shootings of all races is around 1,000 per year. How many of those shootings are easily preventable and unjustified? Even if we assume police shootings are 100% preventable unjustified murders, these unnecessary deaths are still dwarfed by the number of people who will die unnecessarily because of the mismanagement of the SARS 2.0 pandemic. What portion of the 180,000 who have already died could have been saved by competent management?

IHME is currently predicting that nearly 70,000 lives cold be saved in the USA by December 1, if a universal masking policy were put in place. 70,000 is a much larger number than 3 (Portland and Kenosha riot deaths), or 1,000 (total estimated US police shootings).

What is likely to happen? I would guess that Trump will dehumanize the left and try to enrage his base. Some of his base will go out and bear spray some street criminals who will shoot them and kill them. If this exact scenario doesn't happen in the future, something equally stupid might. And Trump will ignore and minimize SARS 2.0 and at least 70,000 people will lose their lives unnecessarily and Trump will have additional blood on his hands. Trump will continue to wave bright shiny objects in front of his followers who will be distracted by their anger and will make excuses for him.

As they say, if you're going to steal, go big. Small crimes don't pay.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=total-deaths&tab=trend

"Please, please, Mr. President, we're sick and tired of winning!"
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Read the Footnotes on August 31, 2020, 04:20:16 PM
"I'm sorry Mr. President, you were hired to handle America's worst day and you've absolutely failed."

-Trump's Assistant Secretary for Counter Terrorism and Threat Prevention in the Department of Homeland Security

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF4KcunfvCg
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 31, 2020, 04:21:07 PM
Stupid-is---as-stupid-does..

Trump needs no help in "dehumanizing" the LEFT - they are doing an excellent job themselves - and handing the election to Trump..

If your political supporters, BLM and Antifa, and the media - call this peaceful protesting and civil unrest - and fail to denounce it -
well, just leave it to the average American to figure it out.

One party stands for Law and Order

One party stands for Anarchy and Chaos.

Given the actions and support of the Democratic Party the last 3 months - the decision is becoming very easy.  A big thanks to the LEFT.

Picture of AntiFa killer who shot Trump supporter point-blank in the chest:

https://amgreatness.com/2020/08/31/portlands-100-antifa-killer-was-previously-arrested-twice-for-illegal-possession-of-loaded-firearm/

The left-wing agitator who allegedly shot a Trump supporter in Portland over the weekend, is a proud member of antifa who has been arrested and set free twice in recent months for charges that included the illegal possession of a handgun.

Too bad Portland prosecutors just let him walk after 2 other incidents this summer.
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 31, 2020, 04:28:35 PM
Picture of Neo Nazi killer who in 2017 plowed into peaceful protestors in Charlottesville, killing one, maiming many others:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/james-alex-fields-driver-deadly-car-attack-charlottesville-rally-sentenced-n1024436

Quote
Prosecutors have said that Fields intended to kill more people in the cluster of counterprotesters and had a history of racist and anti-Semitic behavior.

Gasps could be heard Friday among a packed courtroom, which included Heyer's mother, when prosecutors told the judge that a classmate of Fields had testified that during a high school trip to a German concentration camp, Fields had remarked: "This is where the magic happened."

Prosecutors said they were told Fields was "like a kid at Disney World" during that trip. They had earlier said that Fields had revered Adolf Hitler, keeping a picture of him next to his bed.

Take your pick:

"There were very fine people, on both sides" - Donald Trump

"I want to be very clear about all of this: Rioting is not protesting. Looting is not protesting. Setting fires is not protesting. None of this is protesting. It's lawlessness, plain and simple. And those who do it should be prosecuted. Violence will not bring change, it will only bring destruction. It's wrong in every way." - Joe Biden
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: cubsfan on August 31, 2020, 04:35:46 PM
Better late than never, huh, Joe?    Like 3 months too late....and not a word at your DNC Convention about violence.

But keep bailing those AntiFa rioters and looters out Kamala and Joe:

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/31/meet-the-rioting-criminals-kamala-harris-helped-bail-out-of-jail/

"Yes, that’s right, the Democrats’ vice presidential candidate was a huckster for a bail fund that sought to free violent criminals who were rioting on the streets of Minneapolis, and she was very effective at it. In the wake of deadly fires and looting, Harris asked her five million plus Twitter followers to donate money to bail out the “protesters” arrested in the riots."

"The American people aren’t stupid, they know exactly where Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and the Democratic Party stood on the riots. They stood side by side with the rioters. That they have now cynically come to regret that position is"
Title: Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
Post by: Dalal.Holdings on August 31, 2020, 06:02:40 PM
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2020/08/31/ohio-election-republicans-against-trump-kick-off-campaign-cincinnati/5677822002/

Another anti-Trump Republican effort...this one in Ohio.

Quote
A group started by current and former Republicans opposed to President Donald Trump will kick off a statewide campaign against the president in Cincinnati on Tuesday.

Called Operation Grant after former president, Union general and Ohio native Ulysses S. Grant, the group will tour the state speaking out against Trump. It is affiliated with the Lincoln Project, which has run ads in Ohio attacking Trump.

Former Hamilton County Commissioner and Cincinnati City Councilman Phil Heimlich is one of the leaders of Operation Grant. He told The Enquirer he's still a Republican and defended himself against critics that he's a RINO – Republican in Name Only.

"My response is, Trump is the RINO," Heimlich said. "I'm the real Republican. Real Republicans stand up to brutal dictators. Real Republicans stand up to Vladimir Putin."