Author Topic: Republican Voters Against Trump  (Read 12075 times)

Gregmal

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Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
« Reply #160 on: August 02, 2020, 12:07:11 AM »
Looks like someone had their first beer tonight! Congrats Jurgas. Just remember, always drink responsibly!


cwericb

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Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
« Reply #161 on: August 02, 2020, 10:22:34 AM »
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.


                           An explanation of why some think Trump supporters are stupid.

Here’s what the majority of anti-Trump voters honestly feel about Trump supporters en masse:

That when you saw a man who had owned a fraudulent University, intent on scamming poor people, you thought "Fine." (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/04/10/trump-university-settlement-judge-finalized/502387002/)

That when you saw a man who had made it his business practice to stiff his creditors, you said, "Okay." (https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-hotel-paid-millions-in-fines-for-unpaid-work)

That when you heard him proudly brag about his own history of sexual abuse, you said, "No problem." (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-trumps-accusers-allegations-sexual-misconduct/story?id=51956410)

That when he made up stories about seeing Muslim-Americans in the thousands cheering the destruction of the World Trade Center, you said, "Not an issue." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/22/donald-trumps-outrageous-claim-that-thousands-of-new-jersey-muslims-celebrated-the-911-attacks/)

That when you saw him brag that he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and you wouldn't care, you exclaimed, "He sure knows me." (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/23/president-donald-trump-could-shoot-someone-without-prosecution/4073405002/)

That when you heard him relating a story of an elderly guest of his country club, an 80-year old man, who fell off a stage and hit his head, to Trump replied: “‘Oh my God, that’s disgusting,’ and I turned away. I couldn’t—you know, he was right in front of me, and I turned away. I didn’t want to touch him. He was bleeding all over the place. And I felt terrible, because it was a beautiful white marble floor, and now it had changed color. Became very red.” You said, "That's cool!" (https://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-howard-stern-story)
That when you saw him mock the disabled, you thought it was the funniest thing you ever saw. (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/donald-trump-criticized-after-he-appears-mock-reporter-serge-kovaleski-n470016)

That when you heard him brag that he doesn't read books, you said, "Well, who has time?" (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/americas-first-post-text-president/549794/)

That when the Central Park Five were compensated as innocent men convicted of a crime they didn't commit, and he angrily said that they should still be in prison, you said, "That makes sense." (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/19/what-trump-has-said-central-park-five/1501321001/)

That when you heard him tell his supporters to beat up protesters and that he would hire attorneys, you thought, "Yes!" (https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html)

That when you heard him tell one rally to confiscate a man's coat before throwing him out into the freezing cold, you said, "What a great guy!" (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-orders-protesters-coat-is-confiscated-and-he-is-sent-into-the-cold-a6802756.html)

That you have watched the parade of neo-Nazis and white supremacists with whom he curries favor, while refusing to condemn outright Nazis, and you have said, "Thumbs up!" (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/why-cant-trump-just-condemn-nazis/567320/)

That you hear him unable to talk to foreign dignitaries without insulting their countries and demanding that they praise his electoral win, you said, "That's the way I want my President to be." (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-insult-foreign-countries-leaders_n_59dd2769e4b0b26332e76d57)

That you have watched him remove expertise from all layers of government in favor of people who make money off of eliminating protections in the industries they're supposed to be regulating and you have said, "What a genius!" (https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/12/29/138-trump-policy-changes-2017-000603)

That you have heard him continue to profit from his businesses, in part by leveraging his position as President, to the point of overcharging the Secret Service for space in the properties he owns, and you have said, "That's smart!" (https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2018-03-05/how-is-donald-trump-profiting-from-the-presidency-let-us-count-the-ways)

That you have heard him say that it was difficult to help Puerto Rico because it was in the middle of water and you have said, "That makes sense." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/09/26/the-very-big-ocean-between-here-and-puerto-rico-is-not-a-perfect-excuse-for-a-lack-of-aid/)

That you have seen him start fights with every country from Canada to New Zealand while praising Russia and quote, "falling in love" with the dictator of North Korea, and you have said, "That's statesmanship!" (https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/02/politics/donald-trump-dictators-kim-jong-un-vladimir-putin/index.html)

That Trump separated children from their families and put them in cages, managed to lose track of 1500 kids, has opened a tent city incarceration camp in the desert in Texas - he explains that they’re just “animals” - and you say, “Well, OK then.” (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/more-5-400-children-split-border-according-new-count-n1071791)

That you have witnessed all the thousand and one other manifestations of corruption and low moral character and outright animalistic rudeness and contempt for you, the working American voter, and you still show up grinning and wearing your MAGA hats and threatening to beat up anybody who says otherwise. (https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2018/06/04/451570/confronting-cost-trumps-corruption-american-families/)

What you don't get, Trump supporters, is that our succumbing to frustration and shaking our heads, thinking of you as stupid, may very well be wrong and unhelpful, but it's also...hear me...charitable.

Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.


Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

Gregmal

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Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
« Reply #162 on: August 02, 2020, 10:53:20 AM »
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.


                           An explanation of why some think Trump supporters are stupid.

Here’s what the majority of anti-Trump voters honestly feel about Trump supporters en masse:

That when you saw a man who had owned a fraudulent University, intent on scamming poor people, you thought "Fine." (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/04/10/trump-university-settlement-judge-finalized/502387002/)

That when you saw a man who had made it his business practice to stiff his creditors, you said, "Okay." (https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-hotel-paid-millions-in-fines-for-unpaid-work)

That when you heard him proudly brag about his own history of sexual abuse, you said, "No problem." (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-trumps-accusers-allegations-sexual-misconduct/story?id=51956410)

That when he made up stories about seeing Muslim-Americans in the thousands cheering the destruction of the World Trade Center, you said, "Not an issue." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/22/donald-trumps-outrageous-claim-that-thousands-of-new-jersey-muslims-celebrated-the-911-attacks/)

That when you saw him brag that he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and you wouldn't care, you exclaimed, "He sure knows me." (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/23/president-donald-trump-could-shoot-someone-without-prosecution/4073405002/)

That when you heard him relating a story of an elderly guest of his country club, an 80-year old man, who fell off a stage and hit his head, to Trump replied: “‘Oh my God, that’s disgusting,’ and I turned away. I couldn’t—you know, he was right in front of me, and I turned away. I didn’t want to touch him. He was bleeding all over the place. And I felt terrible, because it was a beautiful white marble floor, and now it had changed color. Became very red.” You said, "That's cool!" (https://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-howard-stern-story)
That when you saw him mock the disabled, you thought it was the funniest thing you ever saw. (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/donald-trump-criticized-after-he-appears-mock-reporter-serge-kovaleski-n470016)

That when you heard him brag that he doesn't read books, you said, "Well, who has time?" (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/americas-first-post-text-president/549794/)

That when the Central Park Five were compensated as innocent men convicted of a crime they didn't commit, and he angrily said that they should still be in prison, you said, "That makes sense." (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/19/what-trump-has-said-central-park-five/1501321001/)

That when you heard him tell his supporters to beat up protesters and that he would hire attorneys, you thought, "Yes!" (https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html)

That when you heard him tell one rally to confiscate a man's coat before throwing him out into the freezing cold, you said, "What a great guy!" (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-orders-protesters-coat-is-confiscated-and-he-is-sent-into-the-cold-a6802756.html)

That you have watched the parade of neo-Nazis and white supremacists with whom he curries favor, while refusing to condemn outright Nazis, and you have said, "Thumbs up!" (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/why-cant-trump-just-condemn-nazis/567320/)

That you hear him unable to talk to foreign dignitaries without insulting their countries and demanding that they praise his electoral win, you said, "That's the way I want my President to be." (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-insult-foreign-countries-leaders_n_59dd2769e4b0b26332e76d57)

That you have watched him remove expertise from all layers of government in favor of people who make money off of eliminating protections in the industries they're supposed to be regulating and you have said, "What a genius!" (https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/12/29/138-trump-policy-changes-2017-000603)

That you have heard him continue to profit from his businesses, in part by leveraging his position as President, to the point of overcharging the Secret Service for space in the properties he owns, and you have said, "That's smart!" (https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2018-03-05/how-is-donald-trump-profiting-from-the-presidency-let-us-count-the-ways)

That you have heard him say that it was difficult to help Puerto Rico because it was in the middle of water and you have said, "That makes sense." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/09/26/the-very-big-ocean-between-here-and-puerto-rico-is-not-a-perfect-excuse-for-a-lack-of-aid/)

That you have seen him start fights with every country from Canada to New Zealand while praising Russia and quote, "falling in love" with the dictator of North Korea, and you have said, "That's statesmanship!" (https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/02/politics/donald-trump-dictators-kim-jong-un-vladimir-putin/index.html)

That Trump separated children from their families and put them in cages, managed to lose track of 1500 kids, has opened a tent city incarceration camp in the desert in Texas - he explains that they’re just “animals” - and you say, “Well, OK then.” (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/more-5-400-children-split-border-according-new-count-n1071791)

That you have witnessed all the thousand and one other manifestations of corruption and low moral character and outright animalistic rudeness and contempt for you, the working American voter, and you still show up grinning and wearing your MAGA hats and threatening to beat up anybody who says otherwise. (https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2018/06/04/451570/confronting-cost-trumps-corruption-american-families/)

What you don't get, Trump supporters, is that our succumbing to frustration and shaking our heads, thinking of you as stupid, may very well be wrong and unhelpful, but it's also...hear me...charitable.

Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.


Or, as it's been explained to you probably dozens of times....some people just realize voting for the Republican candidate will increase the likelihood of policies they favor being implemented, moreso than the Democrat. And vice versa. Its strange people go to such lengths to bridge this into the above. As stupid as claiming anyone who voted for Obama supports smoking. So these people may "think" such and such are "stupid" or whatever. But the joke is on them. They've totally lost their minds the past 3 years and been trolled endlessly by a buffoon like Trump.

Viking

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Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
« Reply #163 on: August 02, 2020, 11:13:02 AM »
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.
Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.[/b]

Or, as it's been explained to you probably dozens of times....some people just realize voting for the Republican candidate will increase the likelihood of policies they favor being implemented, moreso than the Democrat. And vice versa. Its strange people go to such lengths to bridge this into the above. As stupid as claiming anyone who voted for Obama supports smoking. So these people may "think" such and such are "stupid" or whatever. But the joke is on them. They've totally lost their minds the past 3 years and been trolled endlessly by a buffoon like Trump.

So if Charles Manson or Ted Bundy were on the Republican ticket today large number of people would vote for them?

Trump is not a ‘buffoon’; through his words and actions he has demonstrated he is much worse than that (and that is where the examples above are instructive).

Gregmal

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Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
« Reply #164 on: August 02, 2020, 11:56:39 AM »
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.
Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.[/b]

Or, as it's been explained to you probably dozens of times....some people just realize voting for the Republican candidate will increase the likelihood of policies they favor being implemented, moreso than the Democrat. And vice versa. Its strange people go to such lengths to bridge this into the above. As stupid as claiming anyone who voted for Obama supports smoking. So these people may "think" such and such are "stupid" or whatever. But the joke is on them. They've totally lost their minds the past 3 years and been trolled endlessly by a buffoon like Trump.

So if Charles Manson or Ted Bundy were on the Republican ticket today large number of people would vote for them?

Trump is not a ‘buffoon’; through his words and actions he has demonstrated he is much worse than that (and that is where the examples above are instructive).

This is an invalid way to respond. I'd imagine its largely emotionally driven. Ted Bundy or Charles Manson would be be ineligible to run. If they were able to run, it would be due to the fact that they met certain criteria; in other words, if they weren't known for the things that you associate with them, then yes, they'd be eligible and if they got through all the preliminaries, people would probably vote for them. Donald Trump, despite all the hooting and hollering and ranting and raving, has never been convicted of a crime and was just as eligible to run as any other candidate.

Further, almost every provable liberal talking point about Trump, has thus far been debunked, with the granddaddy of them all, being the "Russia Collusion" hoax. As long as people can say racist, sexist, homophobic, bigot, etc, without any consequence, and without any way to prove/disprove it, it will continue. Just remember though, the same folks that screamed "Racism" when Trump banned certain flights back in January/February are also largely the same folks who continue to cry about how Trump "didnt do enough" to fight COVID. The same ones yelling "racist" are also the same ones also claiming Trudeau isn't actually racist, despite there being more concrete(non opinion based) evidence of the later guy(Trudeau) than the former(Trump).

Viking

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Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
« Reply #165 on: August 02, 2020, 12:50:09 PM »
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.
Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.[/b]

Or, as it's been explained to you probably dozens of times....some people just realize voting for the Republican candidate will increase the likelihood of policies they favor being implemented, moreso than the Democrat. And vice versa. Its strange people go to such lengths to bridge this into the above. As stupid as claiming anyone who voted for Obama supports smoking. So these people may "think" such and such are "stupid" or whatever. But the joke is on them. They've totally lost their minds the past 3 years and been trolled endlessly by a buffoon like Trump.

So if Charles Manson or Ted Bundy were on the Republican ticket today large number of people would vote for them?

Trump is not a ‘buffoon’; through his words and actions he has demonstrated he is much worse than that (and that is where the examples above are instructive).

This is an invalid way to respond. I'd imagine its largely emotionally driven. Ted Bundy or Charles Manson would be be ineligible to run. If they were able to run, it would be due to the fact that they met certain criteria; in other words, if they weren't known for the things that you associate with them, then yes, they'd be eligible and if they got through all the preliminaries, people would probably vote for them. Donald Trump, despite all the hooting and hollering and ranting and raving, has never been convicted of a crime and was just as eligible to run as any other candidate.

Further, almost every provable liberal talking point about Trump, has thus far been debunked, with the granddaddy of them all, being the "Russia Collusion" hoax. As long as people can say racist, sexist, homophobic, bigot, etc, without any consequence, and without any way to prove/disprove it, it will continue. Just remember though, the same folks that screamed "Racism" when Trump banned certain flights back in January/February are also largely the same folks who continue to cry about how Trump "didnt do enough" to fight COVID. The same ones yelling "racist" are also the same ones also claiming Trudeau isn't actually racist, despite there being more concrete(non opinion based) evidence of the later guy(Trudeau) than the former(Trump).

My point, which i think was missed, is there are obviously limits to what many (yes, not all) voters will tolerate from those running for office (in terms of what they say and do). The ‘able to secure the nomination’ threshold is an interesting way to look at it. More and more voters appears to have had enough of Trump’s behaviour. We will know much more in 90 days.

My assessment of Trump is based primarily on listening to what he says and watching what he does (not ‘liberal talking points’). I like to get first hand information as much as possible. It is also helpful to hear first hand accounts from those who have worked very closely with Trump in the past: there are enough of these accounts out there to provide some further colour to the painting.

Clearly you have a different take on Trump. I can respect and understand that.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 12:57:25 PM by Viking »

Spekulatius

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Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
« Reply #166 on: August 02, 2020, 12:58:36 PM »
For the US, it is important to note that elections are almost fairly close, because 80% of the population (call it a 40%/40% split) are basically immovable, meaning that nothing will change their opinion. Chanos Said it probably best - if Dems or Republicans were to nominate a “potted plant” as a candidate, it still would likely get 40% of the votes.
Now take into consideration the electoral system and consider that a candidate theoretically could win with 40% of the popular votes and you can see that elections will always look fairly close. 
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 06:05:16 AM by Spekulatius »
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Gregmal

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Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
« Reply #167 on: August 02, 2020, 01:10:06 PM »
If your choices for lunch are a ham sandwich or a Boca burger, but your preference is for fish, you still have to eat. US politics is so fucked structurally. Lets be real. You think you have two choices. At best, you have 2. But even further, the only people who "really" have choices, reside in like 5-6 states.

There's a certain danger to judging people(let alone, and especially, politicians) on what they say(especially clever people). But then even with actions, I cant think of one president who was a true Lone Ranger or cowboy. The system only allows those that adhere to their "masters"(IE campaign donors, lobbyist, etc) to advance. Trump was a great break from this. The catch being that his "master" is his own ego. The accounts from nearly everyone who has worked for him are indeed startling.

Its just tough as a citizen because at the end of the day, especially living in a blue state, where is the middle ground of "I just want to live my life and be left alone. Dont force your ideologies on me and stop picking my pocket"...Is that so much to ask for? If that is my objective, who increases those odds for me? Trump, or Biden?

I'm pretty much OK with Biden as long as he doesnt pick some wackadoo like Warren or Harris. He's clearly slowing down and like Trump, probably a one term president. So much can and has been changing over the past couple slews of 4 year Presidential terms. Unfortunately, it doesnt seem it is for the better.

The biggest concern, one that doesnt get brought up much outside of the Trump is a dictator hyperbole, is the incredible abuse of executive orders that started under Obama and now seems to be rising significantly under Trump. All this does is give the next guy a chance to take it further, and with the candidates becoming more extremist, this is very scary.

stahleyp

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Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
« Reply #168 on: August 02, 2020, 01:13:58 PM »
Trump was compared to Hitler and now Bundy and Manson? Well, I suppose his image is improving then. :P
Paul

Jurgis

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Re: Republican Voters Against Trump
« Reply #169 on: August 02, 2020, 01:24:19 PM »
This has been going around Facebook for a while. It does raise question as to how Trump supporters can justify voting for him while ignoring these items. It would seem that this list was likely composed a couple of years ago so it would not be hard to expand it.
Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.[/b]

Or, as it's been explained to you probably dozens of times....some people just realize voting for the Republican candidate will increase the likelihood of policies they favor being implemented, moreso than the Democrat. And vice versa. Its strange people go to such lengths to bridge this into the above. As stupid as claiming anyone who voted for Obama supports smoking. So these people may "think" such and such are "stupid" or whatever. But the joke is on them. They've totally lost their minds the past 3 years and been trolled endlessly by a buffoon like Trump.

So if Charles Manson or Ted Bundy were on the Republican ticket today large number of people would vote for them?

Trump is not a ‘buffoon’; through his words and actions he has demonstrated he is much worse than that (and that is where the examples above are instructive).

If you kill 8 or 30 people, you are serial killer.

If you kill 156000 people and counting, you are great president.

Go Trumpf!
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