Author Topic: Russia Investigation.  (Read 143655 times)

investor-man

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #310 on: August 07, 2018, 12:02:01 AM »
also everything I mentioned above is evidence toward Trump conspiring with Russia. The case for obstruction of justice just seems like a slam dunk at this point.
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MarkS

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #311 on: August 07, 2018, 05:38:35 AM »
Investor-man

Sounds more like wishing thinking than evidence.  But who am I?

As to the obstruction of justice slam dunk, I'm not so sure that Trump as a sitting President could face criminal charges.  He could face impeachment. It would have to get through the house and then get through the senate with a two thirds vote. Besides the slam dunk obstruction case isn't so slam dunk.  It looks like he had plenty of legitimate reasons to fire Comey.

cameronfen

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #312 on: August 07, 2018, 06:19:25 AM »
Here is a blog post by a Law Professor at Fordham.  He discusses the likelihood of information alone meeting the thing of value requirement under the statute.

 https://shugerblog.com/2017/07/11/update-on-don-jr-emails-and-criminal-case-what-is-a-thing-of-value-what-is-collusion/

Even if what this professor says is right and I'm not a lawyer so I have no reason to disagree, the case against Trump for obstructing justice is still quite strong.  He lied to the public (we don't know if he lied to the FBI) about those meetings, and then as Comey was very visibly investigating Trump for those Russian meetings, he fired him and then tweeted (or said in some official way) that firing coming lifted a cloud from over him.  Combine that with his tweets fuming about replacing sessions for recusal or about Mueller.  Whether what he did was illegal at the meeting or not, he was certainly trying to obstruct an official investigation. 

MarkS

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #313 on: August 07, 2018, 07:57:47 AM »
The obstruction case is complicated by the fact that Trump had legitimate reasons to fire Comey.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39866767
See also the IG  report.

Comey isn't particularly pure either. Many think that he lied to Congress under oath and also violated the same statues that Hillary Clinton allegedly violated.
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/law-prof-mccabe-firing-suggests-comey-lied-to-congress-while-under-oath/

If you get passed the above hurdles, you then face the question of whether you can actually bring criminal charges against a sitting President.
http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/can_a_sitting_president_be_indicted_the_constitution_doesnt_give_a_definiti

So that leaves impeachment as the most likely possibility.  It would have to get passed the house and a two thirds vote in the Senate.  if successful that means Mike Pence is President - who would most likely pardon Trump like Ford pardoned Nixon.  (Also Mike Pence will not eat a meal with a woman other than his wife without a chaperone.  So be very careful what you ask for.)

I don't hold myself out as an expect on all of this.  If anyone else has a better handle please wade into the conversation.  My main point:  This is a very complex area and the odds of any slam dunks are slim.

investor-man

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #314 on: August 07, 2018, 07:22:54 PM »
So that leaves impeachment as the most likely possibility.  It would have to get passed the house and a two thirds vote in the Senate.  if successful that means Mike Pence is President - who would most likely pardon Trump like Ford pardoned Nixon.  (Also Mike Pence will not eat a meal with a woman other than his wife without a chaperone.  So be very careful what you ask for.)

I think (hope) Trump will be a lame duck after November. We may have to settle for just that, but this investigation needs to continue and he and his cronies need to be charged. We can't have future presidents behaving like this.

As an aside - I'd take Pence any day over Trump, and I think people are being a bit harsh with his meal/chaperone thing. I'm not religious, but I also feel weird having a meal alone with a woman who is not my wife. I've done it, but it's certainly something I make sure my wife knows about, and I make sure to stick to a schedule I've related to her.
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cobafdek

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #315 on: August 17, 2018, 10:23:48 AM »
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/17/politics/paul-manafort-trial-friday/index.html

"Before leaving for the day Thursday, the jury sent Ellis four questions, including one asking whether he could 'redefine' the meaning of 'reasonable doubt,' the legal threshold for acquitting a defendant."

This is too funny.  If you're on the jury and you've concluded beyond a reasonable doubt that Manafort is guilty, would you ask this question?

This is not conclusive, but hung juries probably start like this.

Gregmal

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #316 on: August 17, 2018, 11:06:33 AM »
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/17/politics/paul-manafort-trial-friday/index.html

"Before leaving for the day Thursday, the jury sent Ellis four questions, including one asking whether he could 'redefine' the meaning of 'reasonable doubt,' the legal threshold for acquitting a defendant."

This is too funny.  If you're on the jury and you've concluded beyond a reasonable doubt that Manafort is guilty, would you ask this question?

This is not conclusive, but hung juries probably start like this.

LOL if they can't even win a slam dunk case like this, that pretty much confirms what most of us already knew about this investigation. Mind you, the Manafort case didn't even really have anything to do with the 2016 election meddling, and only after some desperate straw grasping were they even able to put this case together. If they can't get a guilty here, I think that gives Congress all it needs to put an end to this investigation.

Personally, I'm hoping for a guilty verdict. Mainly so Trump can then immediately pardon him and we can watch the Libs lose their minds and foam at the mouth for the next couple weeks.

Otsog

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #317 on: August 17, 2018, 01:37:59 PM »
As an aside - I'd take Pence any day over Trump, and I think people are being a bit harsh with his meal/chaperone thing. I'm not religious, but I also feel weird having a meal alone with a woman who is not my wife. I've done it, but it's certainly something I make sure my wife knows about, and I make sure to stick to a schedule I've related to her.

That sucks for women trying to work in male dominated industries.  I'm glad you remedy it by open communication w/ your wife, rather than Pence's strategy.

If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.

investor-man

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #318 on: August 17, 2018, 07:38:05 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/17/politics/paul-manafort-trial-friday/index.html

"Before leaving for the day Thursday, the jury sent Ellis four questions, including one asking whether he could 'redefine' the meaning of 'reasonable doubt,' the legal threshold for acquitting a defendant."

This is too funny.  If you're on the jury and you've concluded beyond a reasonable doubt that Manafort is guilty, would you ask this question?

This is not conclusive, but hung juries probably start like this.

LOL if they can't even win a slam dunk case like this, that pretty much confirms what most of us already knew about this investigation. Mind you, the Manafort case didn't even really have anything to do with the 2016 election meddling, and only after some desperate straw grasping were they even able to put this case together. If they can't get a guilty here, I think that gives Congress all it needs to put an end to this investigation.

Personally, I'm hoping for a guilty verdict. Mainly so Trump can then immediately pardon him and we can watch the Libs lose their minds and foam at the mouth for the next couple weeks.

You need to expand the range of places where you get your news. He bribed the CEO of a bank with a cabinet position in exchange for $16mm. Guess you missed that.
Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #3 "Never spend more for an acquisition than you have to."

investor-man

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #319 on: August 17, 2018, 07:42:19 PM »
As an aside - I'd take Pence any day over Trump, and I think people are being a bit harsh with his meal/chaperone thing. I'm not religious, but I also feel weird having a meal alone with a woman who is not my wife. I've done it, but it's certainly something I make sure my wife knows about, and I make sure to stick to a schedule I've related to her.

That sucks for women trying to work in male dominated industries.  I'm glad you remedy it by open communication w/ your wife, rather than Pence's strategy.

I'm sure Pence has one on one meetings with women.
Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #3 "Never spend more for an acquisition than you have to."