Author Topic: Russia Investigation.  (Read 158570 times)

Gregmal

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #910 on: December 10, 2019, 01:41:49 PM »
So what you are saying Schwab.... is that these pos politicians and incompetent bureaucrats are ruining the lives of innocent people all in the name of their own government job related agendas? I agree.

To hell with all of them.


cubsfan

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #911 on: December 10, 2019, 01:55:14 PM »
AG Barr lies multiple times in his 'opinion' of the IG Report.

Now THAT is quite an amazing statement.

Schwab711

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #912 on: December 10, 2019, 03:08:47 PM »
Describe the spying. If you folks can't specifically answer this then I don't care to continue. I only want folks to answer in detail what they think 'spying' means so I can conclusively show that you have been misled as to what Barr and Republicans in Congress are talking about (their definition of 'spying' almost certainly doesn't match what you think they mean).


Cubsfan said that the IG Report would expose the coup and lead to widespread arrests. It didn't. Unlike the Mueller Report, that specifically stated that the Trump campaign welcomed Russian help, worked with Wikileaks to optimize illegally obtained leaks, and failed to charge Trump Jr because he's too stupid to know he committed a felony, the IG Report failed to mention any action similar to the allegations of a coup by senior FBI officials. Why not just read and quote the IG report directly. What the heck do we need random video clips for? Let's use first-hand sources.

Further, it's worth noting the IG Report implies that Brennan's CIA supplied the FBI information supporting Carter Page's value as a source and the alteration of that info is what Republicans in Congress and Trump allies are upset about. They are upset that the CIA tried to tell the FBI that Page's behavior is potentially normal. That was the CIA coup? This contradicts the theory that the CIA was out to get Trump. That doesn't matter to many folks because there's no cohesive theory Trump and his allies are pushing. The IG Report confirms most folks' (and certainly senior officials') actions were in compliance. All of Trump's 'coup' theories are distractions from his crimes. A lot of folks don't seem to care that Trump himself committed crimes. Somehow those don't matter because someone, somewhere, is allegedly doing something wrong.


@Gregmal: I think it sucks that anyone is abused by law enforcement. Carter Page is someone that was. I feel bad for him. I also think it sucks that Trump lied about wire taps, intimidated witnesses during their testimony, and so on. I can think both these things suck without assuming that all law enforcement officials or all politicans are terrible/corrupt. Sweeping generalizations are usually wrong. All we know is one lawyer change language in an email about Carter Page's work as a source for the CIA and the FBI referred that lawyer to the DOJ for prosecution once the issue was realized. There was no wire tapping, no spying, and certainly no coup. AG Barr has already stated his definition of spying and I highly doubt it matches what you think he means. There was never any evidence to support any of these allegations about Trump being abused during his campaigning and ultimately there was no anger at the folks who erroneously made them.

Other issues with the Page FISA warrant included:
1. Steele telling the FBI that Trump is a bullshitter that is prone to embellishing, which they failed to include
2. GP said he never heard of anyone in the Trump campaign working with Russia (reasonable for FBI to continue because they knew about Manafort in Sep 2016 but still should've included GP's denial)
3. Page never met Manafort
4. The CIA again reminded the FBI that Page had helped the CIA before and that should be considered before approving a warrant
5. Omitted that Bruce Ohr told the FBI that Steele was hired by a firm that was hired by Clinton's campaign (weird how that contradicts all the theories about Bruce Ohr)
6. Omitted that Mifsud denied that he told GP the info that GP ultimately shared with a friendly foreign govt (Israel - Mueller considered charging GP under FARA with telling Israel about the DNC emails but he didn't)
7. Omitted that Page didn't change the RNC policy on Ukraine/Russia in 2016 (it was Manafort/Gates)


So yeah, Page got a raw deal. That doesn't mean Trump and his campaign officials didn't do some terrible stuff. It means that Page got poorly treated.

Cardboard

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #913 on: December 10, 2019, 03:36:07 PM »
Schwab you must be getting pretty close to the center of the Earth. If you do the other half is it call un-digging?

cubsfan

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #914 on: December 10, 2019, 03:47:29 PM »
Schwab - no sense in continuing with you that is for sure. The IG Report was incredibility damning of the FBI, especially after the investigation
started. The FBI defrauded the FISA court multiple times, left out information that would have denied them warrants to spy on multiple individuals.
The Steele dossier was completely made up and when the FBI proved to themselves it was made up by interviewing the sources, they
specifically hid the information for the courts in order to continue  the warrant renewals to spy on the same individuals.
When the case was "dead" in January, the FBI inexplicably continued the investigation and spying for 6-8 months on President Trump.

Hard to understand your attitude about William Barr - but that's your problem, not mine.  Barr can say what he likes - and he pretty much just
disagrees with Horowitz about the predication to start the investigation. Both Barr and Horowitz damn the FBI for their behavior once the investigation
was started. No evidence was found or witnesses found that would bolster the FBI's case of Trump's wrongdoing - that is very clear.
This report is devastating for the FBI and the leadership of the FBI. Deny what you like Schwab. The abuse and conspiracy in the FBI
was widespread.

Barr and Durham are major players now in the continuing investigation. Horowitz focus was the FISA abuses which were MANIFOLD and EASILY PROVEN.
You can be sure that Durham and Barr will come up with criminal referrals and indictments.

Barr and Durham are clearly setting the record straight Schwab:  Their is much more to come and it is criminal.


cubsfan

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #915 on: December 10, 2019, 03:56:22 PM »
Schwab you must be getting pretty close to the center of the Earth.

LMAO!

Cardboard - Schwab is CORRECT once again!  I owe him another apology.

The FISA warrants were LEGALLY obtained by the FBI. Very True.

The part he doesn't mentioned is that the FBI DEFRAUDED the FISA court into granting the SPYING WARRANTS - and did THAT multiple times.

I guess I blew it - you win again Schwab!


Gregmal

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #916 on: December 10, 2019, 04:22:08 PM »
I think that the issue both sides may be able to agree on is that neither one is really 100% verifiable in the current environment, and that is the shame and ultimately what keeps this thing going in circles. Tune into a left leaning outlet, and its one thing, and right leaning outfit and its the polar opposite. And even for those like Schwab that take the time to read the reports....at the end of the day we cant even really trust those because of the puppets and players with establishments privileges and friends to protect. IG may say one thing, Barr will predictably say others, and the left lunatics will continue going on and saying what they want the narrative to be. We long ago lost reality, and we will likely never again get it back. We just get narratives and then have to take sides. One man's spying is another man's sworn duty to protect. One man's negotiation is another man's quid pro quo. The terms keep getting looser and redefined to cast further and wider and no one is safe anymore.

cubsfan

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #917 on: December 10, 2019, 04:57:13 PM »
I think that the issue both sides may be able to agree on is that neither one is really 100% verifiable in the current environment, and that is the shame and ultimately what keeps this thing going in circles. Tune into a left leaning outlet, and its one thing, and right leaning outfit and its the polar opposite. And even for those like Schwab that take the time to read the reports....at the end of the day we cant even really trust those because of the puppets and players with establishments privileges and friends to protect. IG may say one thing, Barr will predictably say others, and the left lunatics will continue going on and saying what they want the narrative to be. We long ago lost reality, and we will likely never again get it back. We just get narratives and then have to take sides. One man's spying is another man's sworn duty to protect. One man's negotiation is another man's quid pro quo. The terms keep getting looser and redefined to cast further and wider and no one is safe anymore.

Well look Gregmal - once again - it gets back to the "big picture" - which is real, real clear now. Seems to me, that has always been your strong suit.

The FBI used a Fake & Phony Dossier to LEGALLY obtain 4-5 Spying Warrants on American citizens and President Trump's Campaign Staff. Period. End of Story.

That is VERY clear and not in dispute. Feel free to get mired in the details - but the Big Picture doesn't change.

The Media and Democrats will do every thing they can to confuse Americans and show magic tricks about this and that - but it's real simple
once you strip away all the details. Say what you want about "this person or that person is exonerated or guilty" or "is it spying or some other term"

The bottom line is real clear.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 04:59:59 PM by cubsfan »

Gregmal

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #918 on: December 10, 2019, 06:03:07 PM »
Yes Cubs, I do get that. Just trying to bridge it for everyone lol. At best, the Democrats spent years DOING exactly what they are now attempting to remove Trump for MAYBE TRYING TO DO.

The agencies are all corrupted. This was evident when it was revealed that during the Obama presidency Republican organizations and charities were blatantly targeted for scrutiny by the IRS.

Bigger picture is that our system is so fucked, and perhaps the hope that Trump can fix it is still there, but it certainly have diminished as the antics and hypocrisy has only gotten worse, and even scarier, is that many of the people, have just gotten dumber. I mean we cant even pass a fucking trade deal without one party having to be able to label it "their own"...so much for the good of the American people...

cubsfan

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #919 on: December 15, 2019, 03:11:31 PM »
Pretty devastating interview with James Comey today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yfXxeJn3Tc

Chris Wallace gets right to the point. An awful lot of "weasel words" by Comey.