Author Topic: Russia Investigation.  (Read 150574 times)

Gregmal

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #920 on: December 10, 2019, 04:22:08 PM »
I think that the issue both sides may be able to agree on is that neither one is really 100% verifiable in the current environment, and that is the shame and ultimately what keeps this thing going in circles. Tune into a left leaning outlet, and its one thing, and right leaning outfit and its the polar opposite. And even for those like Schwab that take the time to read the reports....at the end of the day we cant even really trust those because of the puppets and players with establishments privileges and friends to protect. IG may say one thing, Barr will predictably say others, and the left lunatics will continue going on and saying what they want the narrative to be. We long ago lost reality, and we will likely never again get it back. We just get narratives and then have to take sides. One man's spying is another man's sworn duty to protect. One man's negotiation is another man's quid pro quo. The terms keep getting looser and redefined to cast further and wider and no one is safe anymore.


cubsfan

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #921 on: December 10, 2019, 04:57:13 PM »
I think that the issue both sides may be able to agree on is that neither one is really 100% verifiable in the current environment, and that is the shame and ultimately what keeps this thing going in circles. Tune into a left leaning outlet, and its one thing, and right leaning outfit and its the polar opposite. And even for those like Schwab that take the time to read the reports....at the end of the day we cant even really trust those because of the puppets and players with establishments privileges and friends to protect. IG may say one thing, Barr will predictably say others, and the left lunatics will continue going on and saying what they want the narrative to be. We long ago lost reality, and we will likely never again get it back. We just get narratives and then have to take sides. One man's spying is another man's sworn duty to protect. One man's negotiation is another man's quid pro quo. The terms keep getting looser and redefined to cast further and wider and no one is safe anymore.

Well look Gregmal - once again - it gets back to the "big picture" - which is real, real clear now. Seems to me, that has always been your strong suit.

The FBI used a Fake & Phony Dossier to LEGALLY obtain 4-5 Spying Warrants on American citizens and President Trump's Campaign Staff. Period. End of Story.

That is VERY clear and not in dispute. Feel free to get mired in the details - but the Big Picture doesn't change.

The Media and Democrats will do every thing they can to confuse Americans and show magic tricks about this and that - but it's real simple
once you strip away all the details. Say what you want about "this person or that person is exonerated or guilty" or "is it spying or some other term"

The bottom line is real clear.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 04:59:59 PM by cubsfan »

Gregmal

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #922 on: December 10, 2019, 06:03:07 PM »
Yes Cubs, I do get that. Just trying to bridge it for everyone lol. At best, the Democrats spent years DOING exactly what they are now attempting to remove Trump for MAYBE TRYING TO DO.

The agencies are all corrupted. This was evident when it was revealed that during the Obama presidency Republican organizations and charities were blatantly targeted for scrutiny by the IRS.

Bigger picture is that our system is so fucked, and perhaps the hope that Trump can fix it is still there, but it certainly have diminished as the antics and hypocrisy has only gotten worse, and even scarier, is that many of the people, have just gotten dumber. I mean we cant even pass a fucking trade deal without one party having to be able to label it "their own"...so much for the good of the American people...

cubsfan

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #923 on: December 15, 2019, 03:11:31 PM »
Pretty devastating interview with James Comey today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yfXxeJn3Tc

Chris Wallace gets right to the point. An awful lot of "weasel words" by Comey.



Gregmal

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #924 on: December 15, 2019, 06:05:00 PM »
Funny, now Chuckie and the democrats are making requests for concessions and witnesses at the Senate trial. I hope 100% that they get treated like the feckless shitbags they are. More specifically, I hope Republicans use the same partisan tactics those losers did in the House hearings, just 10x over. Gloves are off, destroy these motherfuckers.

Schwab711

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #925 on: December 16, 2019, 07:38:52 AM »
The FBI used a Fake & Phony Dossier to LEGALLY obtain 4-5 Spying Warrants on American citizens and President Trump's Campaign Staff.

It was one warrant to surveil one citizen that formerly worked for Trump's campaign, with 3 follow-ons for additional time. The warrant explicitly excluded any type of surveillance that captured any communication with or by Trump.

That's very clear and not in dispute. It's literally from the FISA application (you didn't read).


To Gregmal's point, it's frustrating that there is a lack of cohesive messaging at the DOJ right now because a descriptive term like "spying" is being defined individually instead of by the agency, which leads to confusion. Importantly, there was no confusion around the warrant during the pre-election (and pre-Mueller) investigation period. No communications with or by Trump were allowed to be intercepted. All pre-election investigations were purely focused on GP (because he told Downer), Flynn (Turkey), Manafort (Ukraine), and Page (suspected RU asset). This is an indisputable fact that has been repeated by Barr's DOJ, the DOJ IG, and Mueller.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 07:42:40 AM by Schwab711 »

cubsfan

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #926 on: December 16, 2019, 08:17:06 AM »
The FBI used a Fake & Phony Dossier to LEGALLY obtain 4-5 Spying Warrants on American citizens and President Trump's Campaign Staff.

It was one warrant to surveil one citizen that formerly worked for Trump's campaign, with 3 follow-ons for additional time. The warrant explicitly excluded any type of surveillance that captured any communication with or by Trump.

That's very clear and not in dispute. It's literally from the FISA application (you didn't read).


To Gregmal's point, it's frustrating that there is a lack of cohesive messaging at the DOJ right now because a descriptive term like "spying" is being defined individually instead of by the agency, which leads to confusion. Importantly, there was no confusion around the warrant during the pre-election (and pre-Mueller) investigation period. No communications with or by Trump were allowed to be intercepted. All pre-election investigations were purely focused on GP (because he told Downer), Flynn (Turkey), Manafort (Ukraine), and Page (suspected RU asset). This is an indisputable fact that has been repeated by Barr's DOJ, the DOJ IG, and Mueller.

No need to split hairs on this one - it's only the most important investigation the FBI has done in years....

-   1 + 3 = 4 warrants legally obtained by fraud
-   "surveillance" = SPYING
-   Funny how, by some STRANGE coincidence, that the 4 "separate" investigations were all members of Trump's campaign...... would you call that serendipity at work???

I hope you listened to the Comey interview - you are too smart a guy to defend this criminal.


Schwab711

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #927 on: December 16, 2019, 05:21:11 PM »
The FBI used a Fake & Phony Dossier to LEGALLY obtain 4-5 Spying Warrants on American citizens and President Trump's Campaign Staff.

It was one warrant to surveil one citizen that formerly worked for Trump's campaign, with 3 follow-ons for additional time. The warrant explicitly excluded any type of surveillance that captured any communication with or by Trump.

That's very clear and not in dispute. It's literally from the FISA application (you didn't read).


To Gregmal's point, it's frustrating that there is a lack of cohesive messaging at the DOJ right now because a descriptive term like "spying" is being defined individually instead of by the agency, which leads to confusion. Importantly, there was no confusion around the warrant during the pre-election (and pre-Mueller) investigation period. No communications with or by Trump were allowed to be intercepted. All pre-election investigations were purely focused on GP (because he told Downer), Flynn (Turkey), Manafort (Ukraine), and Page (suspected RU asset). This is an indisputable fact that has been repeated by Barr's DOJ, the DOJ IG, and Mueller.

No need to split hairs on this one - it's only the most important investigation the FBI has done in years....

-   1 + 3 = 4 warrants legally obtained by fraud
-   "surveillance" = SPYING
-   Funny how, by some STRANGE coincidence, that the 4 "separate" investigations were all members of Trump's campaign...... would you call that serendipity at work???

I hope you listened to the Comey interview - you are too smart a guy to defend this criminal.

The warrant explicitly prevented communication capture of Trump. So no surveillance or SPYING.

Funny how the Page warrants didn't really affect Trump at all, just Page. Why would Trump lie about that for years just to mislead you?


Flynn conspired to kidnap the former leader of Turkey, who is living in the US. Manafort was acting as a foreign agent while serving as the Campaign Manager. Both were being investigated before joining the Trump campaign. It's not surprising that Trump hired people that routinely committed crimes. That's basically the running joke about Trump...


Honest question: Why do you just trust people to tell you what the primary documents say instead of reading them for yourself? The IG Report executive summary is like 10-20 pages. It would take no time at all to read it. Rather than that, you repeat lies and get upset at me for correcting you and not the commentator (or Trump) for lying to you!? It makes no sense.

Investor20

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #928 on: December 17, 2019, 01:58:10 AM »
The FBI used a Fake & Phony Dossier to LEGALLY obtain 4-5 Spying Warrants on American citizens and President Trump's Campaign Staff.

It was one warrant to surveil one citizen that formerly worked for Trump's campaign, with 3 follow-ons for additional time. The warrant explicitly excluded any type of surveillance that captured any communication with or by Trump.

That's very clear and not in dispute. It's literally from the FISA application (you didn't read).


To Gregmal's point, it's frustrating that there is a lack of cohesive messaging at the DOJ right now because a descriptive term like "spying" is being defined individually instead of by the agency, which leads to confusion. Importantly, there was no confusion around the warrant during the pre-election (and pre-Mueller) investigation period. No communications with or by Trump were allowed to be intercepted. All pre-election investigations were purely focused on GP (because he told Downer), Flynn (Turkey), Manafort (Ukraine), and Page (suspected RU asset). This is an indisputable fact that has been repeated by Barr's DOJ, the DOJ IG, and Mueller.

No need to split hairs on this one - it's only the most important investigation the FBI has done in years....

-   1 + 3 = 4 warrants legally obtained by fraud
-   "surveillance" = SPYING
-   Funny how, by some STRANGE coincidence, that the 4 "separate" investigations were all members of Trump's campaign...... would you call that serendipity at work???

I hope you listened to the Comey interview - you are too smart a guy to defend this criminal.

The warrant explicitly prevented communication capture of Trump. So no surveillance or SPYING.

Funny how the Page warrants didn't really affect Trump at all, just Page. Why would Trump lie about that for years just to mislead you?


Flynn conspired to kidnap the former leader of Turkey, who is living in the US. Manafort was acting as a foreign agent while serving as the Campaign Manager. Both were being investigated before joining the Trump campaign. It's not surprising that Trump hired people that routinely committed crimes. That's basically the running joke about Trump...


Honest question: Why do you just trust people to tell you what the primary documents say instead of reading them for yourself? The IG Report executive summary is like 10-20 pages. It would take no time at all to read it. Rather than that, you repeat lies and get upset at me for correcting you and not the commentator (or Trump) for lying to you!? It makes no sense.

"The warrant explicitly prevented communication capture of Trump. So no surveillance or SPYING."

It is not true that Trump or his other campaign members were not surveilled. 
May be they did wiretapped only Page.  But they did do the below both with Trump and his campaign team including high level member who is not subject of an investigation:

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/dec/11/michael-horowitz-says-fbi-meeting-trump-campaign-w/
"The intelligence briefing the FBI gave to Trump campaign officials in 2016 was a pretext to collect evidence for the bureau’s probe into alleged links to Russia, the Justice Department’s inspector general said Wednesday.
Inspector General Michael Horowitz said the campaign of Democrat candidate Hillary Clinton received an identical briefing, but that was not used to gather information for an investigation."

You have also suggested reading the IG report.  So I did look it up.  Please look into section:

Page 3:

"We determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team tasked several CHSs and Undercover
Employees (UCEs) during the 2016 presidential campaign, which resulted in
interactions with Carter Page, Papadopoulos, and a high-level Trump campaign
official who was not a subject of the investigation. All of these interactions were
consensually monitored and recorded by the FBI.
The interactions between CHSs
and Page and Papadopoulos occurred both during the time Page and Papadopoulos
were advisors to the Trump campaign, and after Page and Papadopoulos were no
longer affiliated with the Trump campaign."

Emphasis in bold has been added
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 02:38:23 AM by Investor20 »

cubsfan

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #929 on: December 17, 2019, 06:33:07 AM »
Schwab - might want to ask your buddy, James Baker, FBI General Counsel, about how he is feeling these days regarding the FISA abuse.

No, don't worry, I'll tell you:

Former FBI general counsel James Baker on Monday called the FBI’s applications for warrants to surveil Trump campaign associate Carter Page “unacceptable,” contradicting his previous assertion that the FBI operated with “sufficient” probable cause.


https://www.nationalreview.com/news/former-fbi-general-counsel-says-carter-page-fisa-application-was-terrible-and-unacceptable/

Schwab - I know you've been sucked in by these guys, as have millions of trusting Americans. Time to let it go.