Author Topic: Russia Investigation.  (Read 158564 times)

Gregmal

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #920 on: December 15, 2019, 06:05:00 PM »
Funny, now Chuckie and the democrats are making requests for concessions and witnesses at the Senate trial. I hope 100% that they get treated like the feckless shitbags they are. More specifically, I hope Republicans use the same partisan tactics those losers did in the House hearings, just 10x over. Gloves are off, destroy these motherfuckers.


Schwab711

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #921 on: December 16, 2019, 07:38:52 AM »
The FBI used a Fake & Phony Dossier to LEGALLY obtain 4-5 Spying Warrants on American citizens and President Trump's Campaign Staff.

It was one warrant to surveil one citizen that formerly worked for Trump's campaign, with 3 follow-ons for additional time. The warrant explicitly excluded any type of surveillance that captured any communication with or by Trump.

That's very clear and not in dispute. It's literally from the FISA application (you didn't read).


To Gregmal's point, it's frustrating that there is a lack of cohesive messaging at the DOJ right now because a descriptive term like "spying" is being defined individually instead of by the agency, which leads to confusion. Importantly, there was no confusion around the warrant during the pre-election (and pre-Mueller) investigation period. No communications with or by Trump were allowed to be intercepted. All pre-election investigations were purely focused on GP (because he told Downer), Flynn (Turkey), Manafort (Ukraine), and Page (suspected RU asset). This is an indisputable fact that has been repeated by Barr's DOJ, the DOJ IG, and Mueller.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 07:42:40 AM by Schwab711 »

cubsfan

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #922 on: December 16, 2019, 08:17:06 AM »
The FBI used a Fake & Phony Dossier to LEGALLY obtain 4-5 Spying Warrants on American citizens and President Trump's Campaign Staff.

It was one warrant to surveil one citizen that formerly worked for Trump's campaign, with 3 follow-ons for additional time. The warrant explicitly excluded any type of surveillance that captured any communication with or by Trump.

That's very clear and not in dispute. It's literally from the FISA application (you didn't read).


To Gregmal's point, it's frustrating that there is a lack of cohesive messaging at the DOJ right now because a descriptive term like "spying" is being defined individually instead of by the agency, which leads to confusion. Importantly, there was no confusion around the warrant during the pre-election (and pre-Mueller) investigation period. No communications with or by Trump were allowed to be intercepted. All pre-election investigations were purely focused on GP (because he told Downer), Flynn (Turkey), Manafort (Ukraine), and Page (suspected RU asset). This is an indisputable fact that has been repeated by Barr's DOJ, the DOJ IG, and Mueller.

No need to split hairs on this one - it's only the most important investigation the FBI has done in years....

-   1 + 3 = 4 warrants legally obtained by fraud
-   "surveillance" = SPYING
-   Funny how, by some STRANGE coincidence, that the 4 "separate" investigations were all members of Trump's campaign...... would you call that serendipity at work???

I hope you listened to the Comey interview - you are too smart a guy to defend this criminal.


Schwab711

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #923 on: December 16, 2019, 05:21:11 PM »
The FBI used a Fake & Phony Dossier to LEGALLY obtain 4-5 Spying Warrants on American citizens and President Trump's Campaign Staff.

It was one warrant to surveil one citizen that formerly worked for Trump's campaign, with 3 follow-ons for additional time. The warrant explicitly excluded any type of surveillance that captured any communication with or by Trump.

That's very clear and not in dispute. It's literally from the FISA application (you didn't read).


To Gregmal's point, it's frustrating that there is a lack of cohesive messaging at the DOJ right now because a descriptive term like "spying" is being defined individually instead of by the agency, which leads to confusion. Importantly, there was no confusion around the warrant during the pre-election (and pre-Mueller) investigation period. No communications with or by Trump were allowed to be intercepted. All pre-election investigations were purely focused on GP (because he told Downer), Flynn (Turkey), Manafort (Ukraine), and Page (suspected RU asset). This is an indisputable fact that has been repeated by Barr's DOJ, the DOJ IG, and Mueller.

No need to split hairs on this one - it's only the most important investigation the FBI has done in years....

-   1 + 3 = 4 warrants legally obtained by fraud
-   "surveillance" = SPYING
-   Funny how, by some STRANGE coincidence, that the 4 "separate" investigations were all members of Trump's campaign...... would you call that serendipity at work???

I hope you listened to the Comey interview - you are too smart a guy to defend this criminal.

The warrant explicitly prevented communication capture of Trump. So no surveillance or SPYING.

Funny how the Page warrants didn't really affect Trump at all, just Page. Why would Trump lie about that for years just to mislead you?


Flynn conspired to kidnap the former leader of Turkey, who is living in the US. Manafort was acting as a foreign agent while serving as the Campaign Manager. Both were being investigated before joining the Trump campaign. It's not surprising that Trump hired people that routinely committed crimes. That's basically the running joke about Trump...


Honest question: Why do you just trust people to tell you what the primary documents say instead of reading them for yourself? The IG Report executive summary is like 10-20 pages. It would take no time at all to read it. Rather than that, you repeat lies and get upset at me for correcting you and not the commentator (or Trump) for lying to you!? It makes no sense.

Investor20

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #924 on: December 17, 2019, 01:58:10 AM »
The FBI used a Fake & Phony Dossier to LEGALLY obtain 4-5 Spying Warrants on American citizens and President Trump's Campaign Staff.

It was one warrant to surveil one citizen that formerly worked for Trump's campaign, with 3 follow-ons for additional time. The warrant explicitly excluded any type of surveillance that captured any communication with or by Trump.

That's very clear and not in dispute. It's literally from the FISA application (you didn't read).


To Gregmal's point, it's frustrating that there is a lack of cohesive messaging at the DOJ right now because a descriptive term like "spying" is being defined individually instead of by the agency, which leads to confusion. Importantly, there was no confusion around the warrant during the pre-election (and pre-Mueller) investigation period. No communications with or by Trump were allowed to be intercepted. All pre-election investigations were purely focused on GP (because he told Downer), Flynn (Turkey), Manafort (Ukraine), and Page (suspected RU asset). This is an indisputable fact that has been repeated by Barr's DOJ, the DOJ IG, and Mueller.

No need to split hairs on this one - it's only the most important investigation the FBI has done in years....

-   1 + 3 = 4 warrants legally obtained by fraud
-   "surveillance" = SPYING
-   Funny how, by some STRANGE coincidence, that the 4 "separate" investigations were all members of Trump's campaign...... would you call that serendipity at work???

I hope you listened to the Comey interview - you are too smart a guy to defend this criminal.

The warrant explicitly prevented communication capture of Trump. So no surveillance or SPYING.

Funny how the Page warrants didn't really affect Trump at all, just Page. Why would Trump lie about that for years just to mislead you?


Flynn conspired to kidnap the former leader of Turkey, who is living in the US. Manafort was acting as a foreign agent while serving as the Campaign Manager. Both were being investigated before joining the Trump campaign. It's not surprising that Trump hired people that routinely committed crimes. That's basically the running joke about Trump...


Honest question: Why do you just trust people to tell you what the primary documents say instead of reading them for yourself? The IG Report executive summary is like 10-20 pages. It would take no time at all to read it. Rather than that, you repeat lies and get upset at me for correcting you and not the commentator (or Trump) for lying to you!? It makes no sense.

"The warrant explicitly prevented communication capture of Trump. So no surveillance or SPYING."

It is not true that Trump or his other campaign members were not surveilled. 
May be they did wiretapped only Page.  But they did do the below both with Trump and his campaign team including high level member who is not subject of an investigation:

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/dec/11/michael-horowitz-says-fbi-meeting-trump-campaign-w/
"The intelligence briefing the FBI gave to Trump campaign officials in 2016 was a pretext to collect evidence for the bureau’s probe into alleged links to Russia, the Justice Department’s inspector general said Wednesday.
Inspector General Michael Horowitz said the campaign of Democrat candidate Hillary Clinton received an identical briefing, but that was not used to gather information for an investigation."

You have also suggested reading the IG report.  So I did look it up.  Please look into section:

Page 3:

"We determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team tasked several CHSs and Undercover
Employees (UCEs) during the 2016 presidential campaign, which resulted in
interactions with Carter Page, Papadopoulos, and a high-level Trump campaign
official who was not a subject of the investigation. All of these interactions were
consensually monitored and recorded by the FBI.
The interactions between CHSs
and Page and Papadopoulos occurred both during the time Page and Papadopoulos
were advisors to the Trump campaign, and after Page and Papadopoulos were no
longer affiliated with the Trump campaign."

Emphasis in bold has been added
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 02:38:23 AM by Investor20 »

cubsfan

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #925 on: December 17, 2019, 06:33:07 AM »
Schwab - might want to ask your buddy, James Baker, FBI General Counsel, about how he is feeling these days regarding the FISA abuse.

No, don't worry, I'll tell you:

Former FBI general counsel James Baker on Monday called the FBI’s applications for warrants to surveil Trump campaign associate Carter Page “unacceptable,” contradicting his previous assertion that the FBI operated with “sufficient” probable cause.


https://www.nationalreview.com/news/former-fbi-general-counsel-says-carter-page-fisa-application-was-terrible-and-unacceptable/

Schwab - I know you've been sucked in by these guys, as have millions of trusting Americans. Time to let it go.


Schwab711

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #926 on: December 17, 2019, 07:05:40 AM »
Schwab - might want to ask your buddy, James Baker, FBI General Counsel, about how he is feeling these days regarding the FISA abuse.

No, don't worry, I'll tell you:

Former FBI general counsel James Baker on Monday called the FBI’s applications for warrants to surveil Trump campaign associate Carter Page “unacceptable,” contradicting his previous assertion that the FBI operated with “sufficient” probable cause.


https://www.nationalreview.com/news/former-fbi-general-counsel-says-carter-page-fisa-application-was-terrible-and-unacceptable/

Schwab - I know you've been sucked in by these guys, as have millions of trusting Americans. Time to let it go.

Baker is referring to the FBI's conduct towards Carter Page. As I've said, I completely agree, it was "unacceptable" or whatever phrase we should use. The FBI should not be unfairly harassing anyone.

My point has been that Trump was not unfairly harassed by law enforcement (based on any public information we have). Trump is making Carter Page's tribulations about himself to garner undue sympathy from folks like you. He did it through habitual lying to the public about the nature of the FBI's unacceptable behavior. I think we can all agree that the FBI unfairly surveilling a presidential candidate or the President is a much bigger deal than some guy that used to work for a presidential campaign.

Schwab711

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #927 on: December 17, 2019, 07:27:25 AM »
The warrant explicitly prevented communication capture of Trump. So no surveillance or SPYING.

Funny how the Page warrants didn't really affect Trump at all, just Page. Why would Trump lie about that for years just to mislead you?


Flynn conspired to kidnap the former leader of Turkey, who is living in the US. Manafort was acting as a foreign agent while serving as the Campaign Manager. Both were being investigated before joining the Trump campaign. It's not surprising that Trump hired people that routinely committed crimes. That's basically the running joke about Trump...


Honest question: Why do you just trust people to tell you what the primary documents say instead of reading them for yourself? The IG Report executive summary is like 10-20 pages. It would take no time at all to read it. Rather than that, you repeat lies and get upset at me for correcting you and not the commentator (or Trump) for lying to you!? It makes no sense.

"The warrant explicitly prevented communication capture of Trump. So no surveillance or SPYING."

It is not true that Trump or his other campaign members were not surveilled. 
May be they did wiretapped only Page.  But they did do the below both with Trump and his campaign team including high level member who is not subject of an investigation:

https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/dec/11/michael-horowitz-says-fbi-meeting-trump-campaign-w/
"The intelligence briefing the FBI gave to Trump campaign officials in 2016 was a pretext to collect evidence for the bureau’s probe into alleged links to Russia, the Justice Department’s inspector general said Wednesday.
Inspector General Michael Horowitz said the campaign of Democrat candidate Hillary Clinton received an identical briefing, but that was not used to gather information for an investigation."

You have also suggested reading the IG report.  So I did look it up.  Please look into section:

Page 3:

"We determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team tasked several CHSs and Undercover
Employees (UCEs) during the 2016 presidential campaign, which resulted in
interactions with Carter Page, Papadopoulos, and a high-level Trump campaign
official who was not a subject of the investigation. All of these interactions were
consensually monitored and recorded by the FBI.
The interactions between CHSs
and Page and Papadopoulos occurred both during the time Page and Papadopoulos
were advisors to the Trump campaign, and after Page and Papadopoulos were no
longer affiliated with the Trump campaign."

Emphasis in bold has been added

IG Report covered the Crossfire Hurricane investigation and Carter Page's FISA applications. The CF investigation is defined as a counterintelligence investigation in to the Trump Campaign's ties to Russia (which the Mueller Report confirmed was numerous and generally welcomed by the campaign). So don't take my denial that Trump was abused by the FBI (a very specific denial to Trump's very specific allegation) that the Trump Campaign itself was not investigated. It obviously was.

Again, GP knew about the DNC hack before the DNC. Lied to the FBI about knowledge. Told others in the campaign. No one in the campaign reported it. Roger Stone was just convicted of lying to the FBI about knowingly optimizing WL info drops of the hacked materials. Trump had a real estate deal with Russia during the campaign he lied about. The Trump Tower meeting almost got Trump Jr sent to jail (Mueller would have indicted him for conspiracy with Russia, but he didn't have enough political experience to prove he knew that taking the Trump Tower meeting was a crime - that is, it was a crime but Trump Jr was an idiot).


As to the high-level official the FBI talked to, it was Sam Clovis. Stefan Halper spoke to him on Carter Page's request.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/us/politics/fbi-government-investigator-trump.html

Again, my point has been that this investigation never touched Trump himself. That's in the Comey firing memo from May 2017. Comey told Trump he wasn't personally being investigated. Trump is trying to confuse the legitimate investigations in to campaign officials as somehow being a spying effort on himself. That's garbage.


Why doesn't anyone see a problem with Trump Campaign officials covering up crimes committed by others? That's why they were investigated in the first place.

Hillary was also being investigated by the FBI during the campaign. Was she also being spied on?

cubsfan

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #928 on: January 24, 2020, 06:17:32 AM »
A story from unsealed documents , yesterday, that will no doubt be buried by the Fake News Media:

https://amgreatness.com/2020/01/23/doj-at-least-2-of-fbis-4-fisa-warrants-were-not-valid/

In a December letter to the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the Justice Department officially determined that at least half of the secret surveillance applications the FBI sought to spy on former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page were illegal.

The last two of the the four FISA warrant requests were not valid based on the “material misstatements omissions”  detailed in the DOJ Inspector General’s report, the Justice Dept. found.


Looks like Carter Page will be in for a big payday after criminal James Comey destroyed the man.

Schwab711

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Re: Russia Investigation.
« Reply #929 on: August 18, 2020, 06:36:37 AM »
It WaS a HoAx!

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1295715073290317825

"Wow--SSCI goes further than Mueller did in describing Konstantin Kilimnik's relationship with Russian intelligence. "Kilimnik is a Russian intelligence officer," the report says. kilimnik was Manafort's longtime business associate." (pg 28)


"Some evidence suggests Kilimnik may be connected to the GRU hack-and-leak operation related to the 2016 U.S. election. This assessment is based on a body of fragmentary information." (pg. 85)