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General Category => Politics => Topic started by: cubsfan on August 24, 2019, 08:05:15 PM

Title: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 24, 2019, 08:05:15 PM
Today, we hit a new low for the Left - with Bill Maher's commentary of David Koch's death:

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/bill-maher-david-koch

There is no decency anymore with these people. Imagine someone saying this about a dying Barrack Obama or Ruth Ginsburg.

The lack of condemnation and silence from the media is deafening.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Schwab711 on August 25, 2019, 03:01:51 PM
Quote
Fortunately they’re gone now. They’ve gone on to greener pastures, or perhaps far less green pastures, but they’re gone. They’re gone, very happy they’re gone...

Trump talking about John McCain

Decency is what a lot of folks have been complaining about, but you said it was TDS.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cwericb on August 25, 2019, 04:32:32 PM
“The Bitter Hostility of the Left” “There is no decency anymore with these people.”

Really now, isn’t it sort of “holier than thou” to criticise the “Left” because some COMEDIAN made insulting remarks about the passing of certain billionaire, Republican supporter when the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES cannot stop taking cheap shots at a recently deceased true American war hero?

You use very strong words to describe some comedian's remarks about a deceased political contributor and blame the "Left" as a whole for his remarks. Bill Mahar really only represents Bill Mahar.

But the President of the United States represents the people of United States. What about the President's ongoing slanderous attacks on John McCain?  Shouldn't he and the people he represents receive much stronger criticism for those ongoing remarks?

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 25, 2019, 05:47:02 PM
Even with the two of you - with whom I've had so many disagreements on principles - I'd never CELEBRATE your painful death from cancer.

It's a new low for the Left - and shows an utter lack of humanity and decency. Of course, it was not made by just "some comedian", but
a very public figure of the Left.

That the Left has NOT condemn it makes me wonder, why they do not distance themselves from this, much as I would the KKK or White Supremacy.

Surely the Left must have some decency?

To me it just shows the bitter, bitter hostility of never getting over the blown Presidential election. 
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cwericb on August 26, 2019, 04:40:16 AM
You always tend to ignore the point.

1) Bill Mahar made rude remarks about a certain Republican billionaire. Once.
    Donald Trump attacks a true American hero. Repeatedly.

2) Mr. Mahar, As far as I know, has never been elected to represent anyone. Hence the title "Mister"
    President Trump was elected to represent the People of the United States. Hence the term "President"

3) Mahar’s statements are his own.
    Trump’s statements are the voice of the American people.

There is no justification to blame “the left” for Mahar’s statements.

But where is the outrage when Trump insults an American hero?
Where is the outrage over the endless insults Trump makes about anyone and everyone with whom he disagrees?

You seem to have a very selective sensitivity to outrageous remarks.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 26, 2019, 07:16:06 AM
Obviously, you are not paying attention.

Trump was roundly and repeatedly condemned for his comments about John McCain by Republicans and Republican leaders - which I completely agreed with, since I admire both McCain and Trump.

Trump is CONSTANTLY condemned for his comments- 24 hours a day - and you know it. Don't be so disingenuous.

Bill Maher's comments are done with a sense of "it's ok to say ANYTHING against a conservative we hate, because we occupy the MORAL high ground".
But his specific comments are a new level of hate, even for the LEFT.

Maher's comments are reprehensible and you know it. The Silence from the Media and the Left tells American's all they need to know about their
total lack of humanity.

You seem almost proud to be associated with such trash.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Schwab711 on August 26, 2019, 08:04:59 AM
http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/politics/time-for-impeachment/msg372337/#msg372337

I agree Trumps fight with McCain was a waste of time, but John came after Trump hard - and Trump nuked him.
He will always be a war hero in my book, but McCain let the personal stuff stop him from doing his job.
It's a sideshow that Trump should have avoided.

Stuff like that is not too important to me

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/politics/the-fallen-patriot!/msg365445/#msg365445

   The term “hero” is often misused today. The guy who successfully lands his plane on the water is not a hero, he is a damned good pilot. The hero is someone who takes great risks to save others.

   In July 1967 when the USS Forrestal’s flight deck burst into flame and with aircraft and bombs exploding killing over 100, McCain risked his life to rescue a fellow pilot and was wounded by bomb fragments for his efforts.

   A few months later he was shot down over Hanoi. With a fractured leg and tow fractured arms he then had his shoulder crushed with a rifle butt and was bayoneted while being taken prisoner.

   After a year of gruesome torture and imprisonment that nearly killed him, he was offered release when the enemy discovered his father was Admiral McCain. However refused to accept preferential treatment unless his fellow prisoners were released with him.

      He endured two years of solitary confinement and regular beatings the five and a half years he remained a prisoner. He was released in 1975.

   Trump had five deferments, and took every advantage of his father’s wealth. Yet this gutless wonder has the audacity to attack McCain who has been dead for seven months.

   Trump lied about McCain’s academic standing and at the same time he has own lawyers threaten lawsuits against any of his alma maters who release any of his own school  marks.

That's a great post - McCain is definitely a hero - and Trump should have never gone there. The guy definitely makes mistakes.

What happened in June that made you say John deserved it? Did Bill Maher make a mistake? Why did you say this type of stuff wasn't important, but now it is? You seem to flip-flop a lot.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 26, 2019, 08:23:15 AM
Obviously Schwab - you can't read - I said Trump should have not gone there and I meant it.

McCain egged him on, and Trump went nuclear on him, which was very unfortunate and roundly condemned.

McCain is and always will be a war hero in my book. End of story.


But true to form Schwab - you love to split hairs and parse words to your benefit. It didn't work for your imaginary
Russian Hoax and it won't here.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Schwab711 on August 26, 2019, 08:27:37 AM
You keep mentioning Trump was roundly condemned. I'm not talking about what anyone else has done. I'm asking you about your words. I'm not parsing, I left links to the full quotes, in context (if I was parsing, I would have conveniently omitted the March 2019 post).

You made an excuse for Trump later after previously fully agreeing with cwericb. What changed?
You said Trump made a mistake. Did Bill Maher make a mistake? Why or why not?
You said this stuff wasn't important to you, but now it appears as if Bill Maher's comments are important to you. What changed?
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: JSArbitrage on August 26, 2019, 11:12:01 AM
As a member of the American "Left" let me tell you: we're just getting started.  The Open Hostility of the Right has run rampant and unopposed for 50 years in the US.   We're taking off the gloves now.

This isn't going to be like the 1960's where you guys commanded German Shephards to bite the faces of African-Americans trying to vote and could claim to have integrity.  This isn't going to like the 1980's where you guys knew AIDS was killing homosexuals en masse and could go to dinner without interruption.  This isn't going to be like the 1990's where you could go on TV and claim Bill Clinton had Vince Foster murdered and you weren't laughed off the screen.   And we're not going to let the Right strip babies/toddlers from their parents, cage them at the border and deny them basic care without being labeled a POS.  We're not going to let Trump's DOJ argue in court that it's OK to fire someone for being gay (which they are doing in federal court right now) without being called a miserable maggot of a person.

This is your final hurrah.  Trump isn't going to be able to ask for the help of an enemy country to throw the election for him this time around (which Mueller found to be true; Mueller just said they were too dumb to know it's illegal.)  Any kid that is graduating high-school right now that makes fun of minorities or people of a different religion or homosexuals or doesn't give a shit about having a clean planet or believe taking advantage of drunk girls is just "boys being boys" is a laughing stock of the school.  That's why the incels have retreated into the shadows of the internet. 

Buckle up buddy.  Trump isn't going to be remembered as JFK 2.0; he's going to be remembered as Jefferson Davis 2.0.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cwericb on August 26, 2019, 11:38:42 AM
“Trump is CONSTANTLY condemned for his comments- 24 hours a day - and you know it. Don't be so disingenuous.”

Yes he certainly is .... by the left and center.

“What changed?”


What’s changed is that Mahar is left wing so he is guilty of “Bitter Hostility”and has “no decency".

Trump on the other hand is right wing so his remarks were in your own words....“unfortunate”.

Worse than that. You assert that it was all John McCain’s own fault because “McCain egged him on”.

And you think I am disingenuous?

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 26, 2019, 11:53:25 AM
You ladies are so great at word-smithing and telling me what I meant.

I condemned Trump for his McCain fight - sorry you can't seem to accept that.
Trump made a BIG mistake on the McCain issue - no excuses - you happy now Schwab?

Too bad you can't do the same for you hero Bill Maher the reprehensible POS.
Like I said - tell me what would happen had someone said what Maher said about Ginsburg or Obama?

You remind me of 2 teenage girls fighting about "Cubsfan said this, he really meant that"

But it's good to have you back in the game brother Schwab.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 26, 2019, 12:03:28 PM
As a member of the American "Left" let me tell you: we're just getting started.  The Open Hostility of the Right has run rampant and unopposed for 50 years in the US.   We're taking off the gloves now.


Quite the rant - good luck buddy boy.  The Left is destroying the Democratic Party. Too bad for the Democrats, since it will likely cost them
the 2020 election.  Better get your act together and impeach Trump while you can. But come up with something new this time around.

Let's see - He and the Russians stole the election ? Nope that didn't fly.  He's certified crazy?  That didn't fly.  He didn't give us his tax returns?
Nope that didn't work?   He's a racist and a bigot? Not working.

Be interesting to see what the Left comes up with this round..... that fat POS Nadler and Liars Schiff/Swalwell keep coming up with goose eggs.

Here's a winner for you:    Try coming up with a candidate/agenda that makes some sense this time....... Green New Deal anyone?

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on August 26, 2019, 12:09:28 PM
Yeah, pretty tasteless comments from Maher. Maybe he's just following Trump's example?

But then again, you incorrectly believe Bill Maher represents the LEFT. So we all make errors.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Gregmal on August 26, 2019, 12:12:25 PM
Yeah, pretty tasteless comments from Maher. Maybe he's just following Trump's example?

But then again, you incorrectly believe Bill Maher represents the LEFT. So we all make errors.

Yup, too moderate and not anti-Semitic enough to truly represent the left.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 26, 2019, 12:27:10 PM
Yeah, pretty tasteless comments from Maher. Maybe he's just following Trump's example?

But then again, you incorrectly believe Bill Maher represents the LEFT. So we all make errors.

Yup, too moderate and not anti-Semitic enough to truly represent the left.

Oh my god, LMAO !
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 26, 2019, 12:28:28 PM
Yeah, pretty tasteless comments from Maher. Maybe he's just following Trump's example?


I gotta say LC - there is hope for you!
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 26, 2019, 01:22:41 PM
Congratulations to Bernie Sanders (and LC and Parsad) for showing the Left how to act like an adult with some class:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/08/25/bernie-sanders-scolds-crowd-david-koch-death-sot-nr-vpx.cnn

I guess I'll have to eat my words......but, still not a peep from the Media....
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cwericb on August 26, 2019, 01:25:51 PM



“You ladies are so great at word-smithing and telling me what I meant.”

Not at all. Your words speak for themselves. But when we quote your words back to you, you then try to pretend they mean something else.

“I condemned Trump for his McCain fight - sorry you can't seem to accept that.
Trump made a BIG mistake on the McCain issue - no excuses - you happy now Schwab?”

In my earlier post I tried to itemize things for you but that seemed to go over your head.

You still either miss the point or intentionally ignore the point. This happens every time someone makes a statement that you can’t refute, so you try to avoid it. So here’s the points in black and white.
 
A) You use completely different language to “condemn” Trump for his words than you do for Mahar. You describe Mahar’s remarks as “Bitter Hostility”,  “no decency" and “reprehensible”. But Trump’s words are “unfortunate”. “Unfortunate”? Seriously, do you not see a difference here???

B) Then you also don’t seem to differentiate between the victims of the remarks or the status of the person making the remarks:
   1) One person making the remarks is a comedian and the other guy is the President of the United States. Do you not understand the difference.
   2) One victim is a billionaire Republican contributor, the other guy is a bonafide American hero.

So how about you address the points for a change rather than resort to some childish remarks.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 26, 2019, 01:41:24 PM
Listen to you Cwericb - blah, blah, blah.

I told you what I thought of the Trump/McCain fiasco. End of story.

Tell me how much you love Bill Maher and what he said about the death of David Koch?

I guess you must approve!

I find it appalling - but even more so given the lack of outrage from your lefty heroes and fake news organizations.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cwericb on August 26, 2019, 01:47:37 PM
Yup, there you go again. Avoid all the valid points and come up with a childish reply.

As someone once put it ..."Arguing with you is like playing chess with a pidgeon. It'll just knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and strut about like it's won anyway."
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Parsad on August 26, 2019, 02:00:46 PM
Listen to you Cwericb - blah, blah, blah.

I told you what I thought of the Trump/McCain fiasco. End of story.

Tell me how much you love Bill Maher and what he said about the death of David Koch?

I guess you must approve!

I find it appalling - but even more so given the lack of outrage from your lefty heroes and fake news organizations.

Maher is a doofus...and not that funny either!  He probably hung around Trump in the old days as much as anyone, and probably Epstein too!

Yeah, he deserves scorn for saying such things.  But remember when Dunning said that RBG would be dead in six months?  Or Trump's feud with a dying McCain?  A comedian saying something is bad, but when Senators/Congressmen/President say it...maybe your outcry should be just as scornful and maybe stop supporting them.  Cheers!

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2019/07/jim-bunning-ruth-bader-ginsburg-very-much-alive
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 26, 2019, 02:28:37 PM
Yup, there you go again. Avoid all the valid points and come up with a childish reply.

As someone once put it ..."Arguing with you is like playing chess with a pidgeon. It'll just knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and strut about like it's won anyway."

Talk about childish - keep sticking up for the indefensible instead of condemning it - makes you look like a total fool.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: JSArbitrage on August 26, 2019, 02:48:08 PM
Why are you guys even arguing with cubs in good faith?  The Right hasn't been civil since most of us have been alive.  What they are doing to McCain is no different than what they did to Kerry.  This is intentional.  In fact, the author of the book that attempted to "Swiftboat" Kerry on his war record during the Presidential election was Jerome Corsi.  Jerome Corsi is actually a witness to the Roger Stone indictment for acting as a cutout for Wikileaks (an organization proven to be a front for Russian Intelligence) in the hacked/stolen Hilary/Podesta emails.   The Right has always lied, stolen, cheated and attacked individuals in bad faith to advance their cause.   McCain was indeed a war hero.  John Kerry was indeed a war hero.

This is a person defending Trump whose presidential campaign: (a) asked for the help of a enemy state (fact established by Mueller), (b) received help from an enemy state (fact established by Mueller) (c) purposefully disseminated stolen information to have the largest effect on his opponent, the former Secretary of State (fact established by Mueller), (d) has since lied about Russia's involvement in the federal crime (fact established by US intelligence agencies and the FBI), and (e) blocked efforts to protect the US from this happening again (fact established by McConnell). 

You guys think he is going to come onto the internet and make good faith arguments?  Wouldn't waste my time if I were you.  In any thread.  Ever.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 26, 2019, 02:49:05 PM
Listen to you Cwericb - blah, blah, blah.

I told you what I thought of the Trump/McCain fiasco. End of story.

Tell me how much you love Bill Maher and what he said about the death of David Koch?

I guess you must approve!

I find it appalling - but even more so given the lack of outrage from your lefty heroes and fake news organizations.

Maher is a doofus...and not that funny either!  He probably hung around Trump in the old days as much as anyone, and probably Epstein too!

Yeah, he deserves scorn for saying such things.  But remember when Dunning said that RBG would be dead in six months?  Or Trump's feud with a dying McCain?  A comedian saying something is bad, but when Senators/Congressmen/President say it...maybe your outcry should be just as scornful and maybe stop supporting them.  Cheers!

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2019/07/jim-bunning-ruth-bader-ginsburg-very-much-alive

You got a good point Parsad - but it's a world of alternatives, which the Dems are blowing big time.

Trump is far from perfect - but look at the looney alternatives: Socialism and the party leaders running to the left as fast as they can.

If they wanted to remake the Democratic Party - these guys are so radical it's scary. I think they're in big trouble unless they reverse direction.

Like I said: Green New Deal anyone?   I think not, I'll stick with Make America Great - so far, so good.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 26, 2019, 03:00:09 PM

This is a person defending Trump whose presidential campaign: (a) asked for the help of a enemy state (fact established by Mueller), (b) received help from an enemy state (fact established by Mueller) (c) purposefully disseminated stolen information to have the largest effect on his opponent, the former Secretary of State (fact established by Mueller), (d) has since lied about Russia's involvement in the federal crime (fact established by US intelligence agencies and the FBI), and (e) blocked efforts to protect the US from this happening again (fact established by McConnell). 

Boy, oh boy, JSA - I think it's gonna be a bad day for you when the Michael Horowitz report comes out. We can revisit in the next month or two, as
you'll likely be in for an unpleasant surprise - when you see the Mueller report demolished.

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Parsad on August 26, 2019, 03:14:59 PM
Listen to you Cwericb - blah, blah, blah.

I told you what I thought of the Trump/McCain fiasco. End of story.

Tell me how much you love Bill Maher and what he said about the death of David Koch?

I guess you must approve!

I find it appalling - but even more so given the lack of outrage from your lefty heroes and fake news organizations.

Maher is a doofus...and not that funny either!  He probably hung around Trump in the old days as much as anyone, and probably Epstein too!

Yeah, he deserves scorn for saying such things.  But remember when Dunning said that RBG would be dead in six months?  Or Trump's feud with a dying McCain?  A comedian saying something is bad, but when Senators/Congressmen/President say it...maybe your outcry should be just as scornful and maybe stop supporting them.  Cheers!

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2019/07/jim-bunning-ruth-bader-ginsburg-very-much-alive

You got a good point Parsad - but it's a world of alternatives, which the Dems are blowing big time.

Trump is far from perfect - but look at the looney alternatives: Socialism and the party leaders running to the left as fast as they can.

If they wanted to remake the Democratic Party - these guys are so radical it's scary. I think they're in big trouble unless they reverse direction.

Like I said: Green New Deal anyone?   I think not, I'll stick with Make America Great - so far, so good.

Yeah, you're right there.  Other than Buttigieg, I really don't like any Democratic candidates, and the Dem's aren't going to vote for him.  I would be inclined to vote for Trump if that's the case as well. 

Nobody rational really wants to be a politician..there are very few out there who can actually be good at it without compromising themselves.  It's why Trump will probably beat out Biden or Bernie.  Trump has no problem compromising himself, his family, his friends, his team or every American out there.  He's truly the luckiest snake-oil salesman alive in World history! 

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cwericb on August 26, 2019, 03:24:07 PM

JSArbitrage you are absolutely right.

I forgot about the character assassination job done on Kerry - another war hero that Trump hates.

I wonder why Trump goes so far out of his way to attack his own country’s war heroes - Oh wait, in what branch of the service did “The Commander in Chief” serve?    

Cubs said: “Trump is far from perfect - but look at the looney alternatives...”

Well at least he used the words “Trump” and “looney” in the same sentence. Maybe there is hopes for him yet.

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 26, 2019, 03:35:59 PM
Yeah, you're right there.  Other than Buttigieg, I really don't like any Democratic candidates, and the Dem's aren't going to vote for him. I would be inclined to vote for Trump if that's the case as well. 

Nobody rational really wants to be a politician..there are very few out there who can actually be good at it without compromising themselves.  It's why Trump will probably beat out Biden or Bernie.  Trump has no problem compromising himself, his family, his friends, his team or every American out there.  He's truly the luckiest snake-oil salesman alive in World history! 

Cheers!

Holy shit Parsad - now you are really making me nervous!   You feeling ok??!!

But along that line.... I'd be terrified for Trump if Michael Bloomberg or some "rational" really ran!

Damn! - Is this what "meeting of the minds" feels like on CoBF???

I gotta quit while I'm ahead!
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Parsad on August 26, 2019, 04:28:52 PM
Yeah, you're right there.  Other than Buttigieg, I really don't like any Democratic candidates, and the Dem's aren't going to vote for him. I would be inclined to vote for Trump if that's the case as well. 

Nobody rational really wants to be a politician..there are very few out there who can actually be good at it without compromising themselves.  It's why Trump will probably beat out Biden or Bernie.  Trump has no problem compromising himself, his family, his friends, his team or every American out there.  He's truly the luckiest snake-oil salesman alive in World history! 

Cheers!

Holy shit Parsad - now you are really making me nervous!   You feeling ok??!!

But along that line.... I'd be terrified for Trump if Michael Bloomberg or some "rational" really ran!

Damn! - Is this what "meeting of the minds" feels like on CoBF???

I gotta quit while I'm ahead!

The problem is Bloomberg, Schultz, etc would run as independent and it would just split the vote...so they may get close, but they definitely would not win.  If they ran as a Democratic or Republican candidate, then they could get the Republicans to turn against Trump or get a lot of the rational right-wing vote to vote Democrat.  But not as an independent.

The right-wing is correct that the fringe on the Democrat side is too powerful to even allow a centrist Democrat to be selected as their nominee.  Instead they would rather vote for the crazies and extremists to get revenge.  But this is only in exchange for what everyone saw happen during Dubya's administration, which lead to more extreme politics during Obama's administration and then finally nothing short of a right-wing satire coming to life in Trump's administration. 

Cheers! 
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Ahab on August 26, 2019, 04:39:49 PM
I increasingly think the Dems will pick Warren or Sanders and blow the election by making Trump seem like a moderate.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cwericb on August 27, 2019, 03:47:37 AM
"... nothing short of a right-wing satire coming to life in Trump's administration. "

That is very apt description, well said. Unfortunately it is also very true. The present farce in Washington reminds me of the movie "Dr. Strangelove".
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on August 27, 2019, 10:33:00 AM
Why are you guys even arguing with cubs in good faith?  The Right hasn't been civil since most of us have been alive.  What they are doing to McCain is no different than what they did to Kerry.  This is intentional.  In fact, the author of the book that attempted to "Swiftboat" Kerry on his war record during the Presidential election was Jerome Corsi.  Jerome Corsi is actually a witness to the Roger Stone indictment for acting as a cutout for Wikileaks (an organization proven to be a front for Russian Intelligence) in the hacked/stolen Hilary/Podesta emails.   The Right has always lied, stolen, cheated and attacked individuals in bad faith to advance their cause.   McCain was indeed a war hero.  John Kerry was indeed a war hero.

This is a person defending Trump whose presidential campaign: (a) asked for the help of a enemy state (fact established by Mueller), (b) received help from an enemy state (fact established by Mueller) (c) purposefully disseminated stolen information to have the largest effect on his opponent, the former Secretary of State (fact established by Mueller), (d) has since lied about Russia's involvement in the federal crime (fact established by US intelligence agencies and the FBI), and (e) blocked efforts to protect the US from this happening again (fact established by McConnell). 

You guys think he is going to come onto the internet and make good faith arguments?  Wouldn't waste my time if I were you.  In any thread.  Ever.

It's hard to be civil with people who are almost completely illogical and void of all common sense when it comes to history, policy creation, regulation, and economics.

Disclaimer:I think both parties are pretty much completely insane at this point. We have a bartender and a TV celebrity as the face of the two parties.....300ish mil people in the US who could run for President and we end up with people like this.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on August 27, 2019, 12:26:03 PM
Hey don’t disparage bartenders! A good bartender meets and can talk to every type of person, an important skill!

But I agree it’s hard to have a conversation when the starting point is “well this is my talking point”.

For example, Sanders = socialism. Trump = racist. Koch = satan. Ilhan = anti-semite.

If this is the starting point, already we are not trying to find solutions but just trying to point fingers.


Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: meiroy on August 27, 2019, 11:06:52 PM

For example, Sanders = socialism. Trump = racist. Koch = satan. Ilhan = anti-semite.


Sanders IS a socialist. Trump IS a racist and Omar IS an anti-semite.  There's no such thing as Satan, so not so sure about your Koch comparison.

BTW,  Tim Ferriss just had a podcast with Charles Koch, definitely worth listening to. 

Here's another one:

Elizabeth Warren = capitalist.

Why?  Because she will supposedly strike down corruption, reduce inequality, reduce market distortions by individuals and cooperations, reduce foreign interference, provide broadband access to all, etc.  Even considering all her other policies, this will do for a far better capitalistic system and a transparent and fair market economy.  No one on the right gets close to this.




Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on August 28, 2019, 06:22:08 AM

For example, Sanders = socialism. Trump = racist. Koch = satan. Ilhan = anti-semite.


Sanders IS a socialist. Trump IS a racist and Omar IS an anti-semite.  There's no such thing as Satan, so not so sure about your Koch comparison.

BTW,  Tim Ferriss just had a podcast with Charles Koch, definitely worth listening to. 

Here's another one:

Elizabeth Warren = capitalist.

Why?  Because she will supposedly strike down corruption, reduce inequality, reduce market distortions by individuals and cooperations, reduce foreign interference, provide broadband access to all, etc.  Even considering all her other policies, this will do for a far better capitalistic system and a transparent and fair market economy.  No one on the right gets close to this.

She may be a "capitalist." But almost all her policies are structured around increased regulations and extreme government intervention. We don't need a "capitalist" ; we need a free market capitalist who will get rid of regulations, lobbyists, central banking, etc.

Also Justin Amash would like a word with you on the "No one on the right gets close to this." In fairness to you he left the republican party  :P
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on August 28, 2019, 06:43:51 AM
Why are you guys even arguing with cubs in good faith?  The Right hasn't been civil since most of us have been alive.  What they are doing to McCain is no different than what they did to Kerry.  This is intentional.  In fact, the author of the book that attempted to "Swiftboat" Kerry on his war record during the Presidential election was Jerome Corsi.  Jerome Corsi is actually a witness to the Roger Stone indictment for acting as a cutout for Wikileaks (an organization proven to be a front for Russian Intelligence) in the hacked/stolen Hilary/Podesta emails.   The Right has always lied, stolen, cheated and attacked individuals in bad faith to advance their cause.   McCain was indeed a war hero.  John Kerry was indeed a war hero.

This is a person defending Trump whose presidential campaign: (a) asked for the help of a enemy state (fact established by Mueller), (b) received help from an enemy state (fact established by Mueller) (c) purposefully disseminated stolen information to have the largest effect on his opponent, the former Secretary of State (fact established by Mueller), (d) has since lied about Russia's involvement in the federal crime (fact established by US intelligence agencies and the FBI), and (e) blocked efforts to protect the US from this happening again (fact established by McConnell). 

You guys think he is going to come onto the internet and make good faith arguments?  Wouldn't waste my time if I were you.  In any thread.  Ever.

It's hard to be civil with people who are almost completely illogical and void of all common sense when it comes to history, policy creation, regulation, and economics.

Disclaimer:I think both parties are pretty much completely insane at this point. We have a bartender and a TV celebrity as the face of the two parties.....300ish mil people in the US who could run for President and we end up with people like this.

Both parties have always been insane, it's just that the press helped cover up that fact.  Now that anyone can see Trumps insane ramblings on twitter and people can share pictures of Biden feeling up little girls on FB, etc...  The press is no longer the gate keeper to what we see.  Politics is being shown for what it is, and always has been.  These people are spending millions to get a job that pays a few hundred grand a year, because they want power.  And they know that once they retire they will be worth tens or even hundreds of millions.  The Obama's just bought a $15M mansion on Martha's Vineyard.   The Clintons are worth a fortune.  You should celebrate the fact that the system is being shown for what it is.  I'd be much sadder if people still thought the government somehow worked.  The edifice is crumbling down before our eyes.   Even people who want to believe in the system are becoming disgusted and disillusioned.  And that is a good thing.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on August 28, 2019, 06:57:49 AM
Why are you guys even arguing with cubs in good faith?  The Right hasn't been civil since most of us have been alive.  What they are doing to McCain is no different than what they did to Kerry.  This is intentional.  In fact, the author of the book that attempted to "Swiftboat" Kerry on his war record during the Presidential election was Jerome Corsi.  Jerome Corsi is actually a witness to the Roger Stone indictment for acting as a cutout for Wikileaks (an organization proven to be a front for Russian Intelligence) in the hacked/stolen Hilary/Podesta emails.   The Right has always lied, stolen, cheated and attacked individuals in bad faith to advance their cause.   McCain was indeed a war hero.  John Kerry was indeed a war hero.

This is a person defending Trump whose presidential campaign: (a) asked for the help of a enemy state (fact established by Mueller), (b) received help from an enemy state (fact established by Mueller) (c) purposefully disseminated stolen information to have the largest effect on his opponent, the former Secretary of State (fact established by Mueller), (d) has since lied about Russia's involvement in the federal crime (fact established by US intelligence agencies and the FBI), and (e) blocked efforts to protect the US from this happening again (fact established by McConnell). 

You guys think he is going to come onto the internet and make good faith arguments?  Wouldn't waste my time if I were you.  In any thread.  Ever.

It's hard to be civil with people who are almost completely illogical and void of all common sense when it comes to history, policy creation, regulation, and economics.

Disclaimer:I think both parties are pretty much completely insane at this point. We have a bartender and a TV celebrity as the face of the two parties.....300ish mil people in the US who could run for President and we end up with people like this.

Both parties have always been insane, it's just that the press helped cover up that fact.  Now that anyone can see Trumps insane ramblings on twitter and people can share pictures of Biden feeling up little girls on FB, etc...  The press is no longer the gate keeper to what we see.  Politics is being shown for what it is, and always has been.  These people are spending millions to get a job that pays a few hundred grand a year, because they want power.  And they know that once they retire they will be worth tens or even hundreds of millions.  The Obama's just bought a $15M mansion on Martha's Vineyard.   The Clintons are worth a fortune.  You should celebrate the fact that the system is being shown for what it is.  I'd be much sadder if people still thought the government somehow worked.  The edifice is crumbling down before our eyes.   Even people who want to believe in the system are becoming disgusted and disillusioned.  And that is a good thing.

I completely agree with this. I'm big on quotes :p and I think Bastiat sums this up perfectly.

“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law

When Ilhan Omar said the other day "If you want US to behave like politicians then it's time you start treating US like politicians." I couldn't help but think of that quote. They think they are kings and queens who are above the very people they are supposed to support and represent.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on August 28, 2019, 07:12:08 AM
Why are you guys even arguing with cubs in good faith?  The Right hasn't been civil since most of us have been alive.  What they are doing to McCain is no different than what they did to Kerry.  This is intentional.  In fact, the author of the book that attempted to "Swiftboat" Kerry on his war record during the Presidential election was Jerome Corsi.  Jerome Corsi is actually a witness to the Roger Stone indictment for acting as a cutout for Wikileaks (an organization proven to be a front for Russian Intelligence) in the hacked/stolen Hilary/Podesta emails.   The Right has always lied, stolen, cheated and attacked individuals in bad faith to advance their cause.   McCain was indeed a war hero.  John Kerry was indeed a war hero.

This is a person defending Trump whose presidential campaign: (a) asked for the help of a enemy state (fact established by Mueller), (b) received help from an enemy state (fact established by Mueller) (c) purposefully disseminated stolen information to have the largest effect on his opponent, the former Secretary of State (fact established by Mueller), (d) has since lied about Russia's involvement in the federal crime (fact established by US intelligence agencies and the FBI), and (e) blocked efforts to protect the US from this happening again (fact established by McConnell). 

You guys think he is going to come onto the internet and make good faith arguments?  Wouldn't waste my time if I were you.  In any thread.  Ever.

It's hard to be civil with people who are almost completely illogical and void of all common sense when it comes to history, policy creation, regulation, and economics.

Disclaimer:I think both parties are pretty much completely insane at this point. We have a bartender and a TV celebrity as the face of the two parties.....300ish mil people in the US who could run for President and we end up with people like this.

Both parties have always been insane, it's just that the press helped cover up that fact.  Now that anyone can see Trumps insane ramblings on twitter and people can share pictures of Biden feeling up little girls on FB, etc...  The press is no longer the gate keeper to what we see.  Politics is being shown for what it is, and always has been.  These people are spending millions to get a job that pays a few hundred grand a year, because they want power.  And they know that once they retire they will be worth tens or even hundreds of millions.  The Obama's just bought a $15M mansion on Martha's Vineyard.   The Clintons are worth a fortune.  You should celebrate the fact that the system is being shown for what it is.  I'd be much sadder if people still thought the government somehow worked.  The edifice is crumbling down before our eyes.   Even people who want to believe in the system are becoming disgusted and disillusioned.  And that is a good thing.

I completely agree with this. I'm big on quotes :p and I think Bastiat sums this up perfectly.

“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law

When Ilhan Omar said the other day "If you want US to behave like politicians then it's time you start treating US like politicians." I couldn't help but think of that quote. They think they are kings and queens who are above the very people they are supposed to support and represent.

Exactly.  It isn't just that politicians are people too like everyone else, that would be bad enough, but politics attracts the worst among us.  When you offer power, the power-hungry are going to be the ones driven to obtain it.  We have created a system where we pick the worst lairs, and power hungry lunatics out of the population and give them almost unlimited power and money.   And we wonder why it doesn't seem to work very well.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Cigarbutt on August 28, 2019, 07:23:18 AM
...
Even people who want to believe in the system are becoming disgusted and disillusioned.  And that is a good thing.
Not me, at least not yet. :)
Disclosure: from a challenged Canadian with a limited education.

@ and versus what Castanza said:
I really like Bastiat's writings but in the interest of balanced opinion-making, I wonder if Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations should not be read alongside his Theory of Moral Sentiments. A potential outcome may be that one could conclude that the job of civil government is not to teach virtue, especially since a government is the image of its citizens. Smith made a point though when he observed: {In a state} "antecedent to the institution of civil government, no impartial spectator would approve of one person’s using force to make another act beneficently. But once civil government has been established, people may legitimately be forced to carry out at least the greatest and most obvious duties of beneficence."
I guess what I'm trying to say it that citizens and institutions can propagate a self-feeding loop, hopefully in the right direction.
Let's get to work. :)
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 28, 2019, 07:27:45 AM
The press is no longer the gate keeper to what we see.  Politics is being shown for what it is, and always has been.   You should celebrate the fact that the system is being shown for what it is.  The edifice is crumbling down before our eyes.   Even people who want to believe in the system are becoming disgusted and disillusioned.  And that is a good thing.

Ah, yes --- this is so, so insightful --- If you look at the 2016 Presidential Election retrospectively - you see this theme that totally blew by the press
and the DC Elites (both Republicans and Democrats)

Donald Trump elected US President?!??   How did THAT happen?!?

It happened because the PEOPLE have had it with government that does NOT served them. So they elected a POPULIST (and an imperfect one at that).
They elected someone who would NOT be CONTROLLED by the DC swamp. And the Swamp ABSOLUTELY hates someone they have no control over.
That is how you get a Donald Trump as the US President - the American people gave their finger to US politicians because they WANT the system they
are disgusted with (and does not represent them) to CHANGE. For once, enough of the politician talk: just say what you are going to do and go DO IT for once.

This how you get the first populist in US History - one with NO prior political or military experience.

The DC Swamp has become MUCH too clubby and corrupt (not in a legal sense, but in stay in power sense). They do NOT represent the American people.
The DC Swamp CAN NOT control Donald Trump - and they HATE it.

Just look at the popular vote election results in DC.  Hillary Clinton 91% , Donald Trump 4% - the widest margin EVER because of HIS threat to THEIR power.

To your final point:  The Media, that LAST bastion of Truth and FINAL Gatekeeper to keep politicians honest TOTALLY missed the story, then AND now.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on August 28, 2019, 07:44:51 AM
...
Even people who want to believe in the system are becoming disgusted and disillusioned.  And that is a good thing.
Not me, at least not yet. :)
Disclosure: from a challenged Canadian with a limited education.

@ and versus what Castanza said:
I really like Bastiat's writings but in the interest of balanced opinion-making, I wonder if Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations should not be read alongside his Theory of Moral Sentiments. A potential outcome may be that one could conclude that the job of civil government is not to teach virtue, especially since a government is the image of its citizens. Smith made a point though when he observed: {In a state} "antecedent to the institution of civil government, no impartial spectator would approve of one person’s using force to make another act beneficently. But once civil government has been established, people may legitimately be forced to carry out at least the greatest and most obvious duties of beneficence."
I guess what I'm trying to say it that citizens and institutions can propagate a self-feeding loop, hopefully in the right direction.
Let's get to work. :)

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law

Right, and this is something people today (especially in America) completely forget. They believe that Government grants rights or even creates rights. This is why the US Constitution was centered around Individual Liberties; although not perfect. I do admire the Swiss and how they setup their "upper echelon." At least from the standpoint of interventionism which I guess is a bit outside the scope of individual liberties. Just an example of something we could do better in America. 
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on August 28, 2019, 10:13:35 AM
Quote
When Ilhan Omar said the other day "If you want US to behave like politicians then it's time you start treating US like politicians." I couldn't help but think of that quote. They think they are kings and queens who are above the very people they are supposed to support and represent.
Well you're taking that quote out of context.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on August 28, 2019, 11:37:59 AM
Quote
When Ilhan Omar said the other day "If you want US to behave like politicians then it's time you start treating US like politicians." I couldn't help but think of that quote. They think they are kings and queens who are above the very people they are supposed to support and represent.
Well you're taking that quote out of context.

She was asking to be treated with the same respect afforded to most other politicians.  It is incredibly unfortunate that politicians are ever treated with any level of respect by anyone, especially for behaving like politicians.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on August 28, 2019, 12:14:41 PM
Quote
When Ilhan Omar said the other day "If you want US to behave like politicians then it's time you start treating US like politicians." I couldn't help but think of that quote. They think they are kings and queens who are above the very people they are supposed to support and represent.
Well you're taking that quote out of context.

She was asking to be treated with the same respect afforded to most other politicians.  It is incredibly unfortunate that politicians are ever treated with any level of respect by anyone, especially for behaving like politicians.

Nonsense. She was asked a presumptive (and frankly flat-out stupid) question. There was zero innuendo of "I'm a politician therefore treat me like a king", in her response.

And otherwise I agree with your general point, and furthermore there is plenty of evidence to support it.

I mean take a look at Presidential golf holidays, congressional pay and benefits, and "for life" congressmen. Mitch Mcconnell has been in the senate for over 30 years, and some lower-ranking congressmen for over 40! So I find it disingenuous to smuggle Omar's response into that category of behavior.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Cigarbutt on August 28, 2019, 12:44:24 PM
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law

Right, and this is something people today (especially in America) completely forget. They believe that Government grants rights or even creates rights. This is why the US Constitution was centered around Individual Liberties; although not perfect. I do admire the Swiss and how they setup their "upper echelon." At least from the standpoint of interventionism which I guess is a bit outside the scope of individual liberties. Just an example of something we could do better in America.
International comparisons are just that but one can occasionally learn from others. When you compare Switzerland and the US, there are major differences which have to do with various reasons and historical path dependency but the share of public expenditures per GDP is quite similar and, if you believe that the extent of government 'intervention' vs GDP curve as having a positive slope with then decreasing marginal return and eventually a negative slope, you may conclude that, historically, both the US and Switzerland have been able to sit on a good part of the curve with a relatively low 'intervention' budget and relatively high government expenditures per capita. Early on in another life, I had a typical Swiss as a mentor (he was the big boss) and efficiency was the name of the game. I never worked as hard as then.
https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-government-spending.htm

In terms of the importance of the upper echelon looking out for the populace, I see that an individual, whose commitment doesn't need to be proven at this point, is voicing some concerns.
I'm just a stupid Canadian unfamiliar with US politics but i wonder if this guy, Mr. James Norman Mattis, should not be brought back on board as soon as democratically possible.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newspolitics/mattis-swipes-at-trump-warns-of-storm-clouds-gathering-amid-fractured-alliances/ar-AAGsbBw?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on August 28, 2019, 01:13:06 PM
Quote
When Ilhan Omar said the other day "If you want US to behave like politicians then it's time you start treating US like politicians." I couldn't help but think of that quote. They think they are kings and queens who are above the very people they are supposed to support and represent.
Well you're taking that quote out of context.

Ok LC, your bias is clouding your view of that entire exchange. Hers and others entitlement in congress is completely blatant. She thinks she is above having to answer questions. If you are a "servant of the people" you are not above anything. Almost every single speech she gives is full of entitlement and she is clearly a very "power hungry" person. This goes for many people on both sides of the isle.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on August 28, 2019, 08:04:27 PM
My bias is clouding my judgement? How do you figure? Walk me through it, I'd genuinely like to understand the rationale which leads you to say such a thing. After all it can only benefit me to understand my own biases.

Also I'll challenge the characterization you present of her:

You say she thinks she is "above having to answer questions". But I would argue her actions contradict such a characterization.

She chose to sit down and answer these questions, and of people who were not even her constituents. This is including that lady's question, which despite its ridiculousness, she still fully addressed. It's not like she was lounging at home at her mansion and refused to face the public.

And you say every speech she gives is full of entitlement. OK, well you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But that is all your statement seems to be, because you provide no evidence to justify it. I mean, at least provide some justification as to how you think you could make such a claim. I'd certainly be interested to hear it.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: meiroy on August 29, 2019, 12:27:15 AM

For example, Sanders = socialism. Trump = racist. Koch = satan. Ilhan = anti-semite.


Sanders IS a socialist. Trump IS a racist and Omar IS an anti-semite.  There's no such thing as Satan, so not so sure about your Koch comparison.

BTW,  Tim Ferriss just had a podcast with Charles Koch, definitely worth listening to. 

Here's another one:

Elizabeth Warren = capitalist.

Why?  Because she will supposedly strike down corruption, reduce inequality, reduce market distortions by individuals and cooperations, reduce foreign interference, provide broadband access to all, etc.  Even considering all her other policies, this will do for a far better capitalistic system and a transparent and fair market economy.  No one on the right gets close to this.

She may be a "capitalist." But almost all her policies are structured around increased regulations and extreme government intervention. We don't need a "capitalist" ; we need a free market capitalist who will get rid of regulations, lobbyists, central banking, etc.

Also Justin Amash would like a word with you on the "No one on the right gets close to this." In fairness to you he left the republican party  :P

The thing you seek cannot exist. There cannot be such a person that will be able to achieve that, and that says a lot about the strength of the USA, it can survive such extremes (e.g. Trump) and adjust.

But, fear not, Warren might be good enough.

Here's why. Let's say there are currently 47 regulations that you would like to remove because they distort and manipulate the free market.  These regulations have been around for years, for decades, and they will remain so for the foreseeable future (plenty of real examples).

Now, you have an option to create a new regulation that removes or reduces the impact of these 47 regulations and in practice supports the free market.

e.g. fighting corruption, extreme monopolies, foreign interference, lobbyists, fixing health care, etc.

Now, you would say this extra regulation can make things worse and just complicate things and you'll be right, there is a certain risk.  So the key here is qualitative, and Elizabeth Warren has what it takes, compared to others. And, by doing nothing there's also a risk that these 47 regulations will remain for decades to come. The result of which is that you will get someone like Trump or AOC...

I think we can call this concept "facing reality and being a grownup".

A second concept is an illusion that the US economy is close to being a free market.  We think that because it's so extremely open compared to other economies, but in reality, it's far, far, far from anything like that.





Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Cardboard on August 29, 2019, 05:42:06 AM
Elizabeth Warren is one of the most deranged politician I have ever seen. Like Hillary's level of hysteria times 5 to 10.

Furthermore, all her concepts are European socialism garbage. Keep that home please! Keep digging that hole Europe.

Cardboard
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on August 29, 2019, 04:32:00 PM
I can't imagine a series of Trump/Warren election debates.  That would be the ugliest of all.
If the economy is good, Warren will get shredded for her radical positions.

Then the only thing that will work for Warren is her typical name calling - Trump's a racist, bigot, misogynist, etc

American's won't buy it. After all, she earned her nickname by cheating and lying - and she'll never shake that.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: bearprowler6 on August 29, 2019, 04:37:57 PM


 Trump's a racist, bigot, misogynist, etc

American's won't buy it again. After all, he earned his position by cheating and lying - and he'll never shake that.

That's a little better....
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on August 30, 2019, 05:38:44 AM
I can't imagine a series of Trump/Warren election debates.  That would be the ugliest of all.
If the economy is good, Warren will get shredded for her radical positions.

Then the only thing that will work for Warren is her typical name calling - Trump's a racist, bigot, misogynist, etc

American's won't buy it. After all, she earned her nickname by cheating and lying - and she'll never shake that.


This next election is going to be a shitshow any way you slice it.   Can you imagine a Trump/Biden debate?   I don't know if it will be hilarious or just sad.   Take the quiz "Who Said it?  Trump or Biden?"  I got 13 out of 15 correct, but I did guess on some. And of course my IQ is the best IQ.

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2019-trump-or-biden-quotes-quiz/
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: JSArbitrage on August 30, 2019, 07:46:26 AM
Why are you guys even arguing with cubs in good faith?  The Right hasn't been civil since most of us have been alive.  What they are doing to McCain is no different than what they did to Kerry.  This is intentional.  In fact, the author of the book that attempted to "Swiftboat" Kerry on his war record during the Presidential election was Jerome Corsi.  Jerome Corsi is actually a witness to the Roger Stone indictment for acting as a cutout for Wikileaks (an organization proven to be a front for Russian Intelligence) in the hacked/stolen Hilary/Podesta emails.   The Right has always lied, stolen, cheated and attacked individuals in bad faith to advance their cause.   McCain was indeed a war hero.  John Kerry was indeed a war hero.

This is a person defending Trump whose presidential campaign: (a) asked for the help of a enemy state (fact established by Mueller), (b) received help from an enemy state (fact established by Mueller) (c) purposefully disseminated stolen information to have the largest effect on his opponent, the former Secretary of State (fact established by Mueller), (d) has since lied about Russia's involvement in the federal crime (fact established by US intelligence agencies and the FBI), and (e) blocked efforts to protect the US from this happening again (fact established by McConnell). 

You guys think he is going to come onto the internet and make good faith arguments?  Wouldn't waste my time if I were you.  In any thread.  Ever.

It's hard to be civil with people who are almost completely illogical and void of all common sense when it comes to history, policy creation, regulation, and economics.

Disclaimer:I think both parties are pretty much completely insane at this point. We have a bartender and a TV celebrity as the face of the two parties.....300ish mil people in the US who could run for President and we end up with people like this.

Both parties have always been insane, it's just that the press helped cover up that fact...The Obama's just bought a $15M mansion on Martha's Vineyard...The Clintons are worth a fortune.

Trump literally just tweeted out a Trump/Pence 2020 logo created by a Dutch Neo-Nazi group showing the Mussolini Lion.  Obama bought a really expense house with proceeds from writing best selling books.  And your response is :"BoTH sIDeS aRE tHE SaMe!!!!" 

You are intellectually and morally lost.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on August 30, 2019, 08:22:00 AM
Why are you guys even arguing with cubs in good faith?  The Right hasn't been civil since most of us have been alive.  What they are doing to McCain is no different than what they did to Kerry.  This is intentional.  In fact, the author of the book that attempted to "Swiftboat" Kerry on his war record during the Presidential election was Jerome Corsi.  Jerome Corsi is actually a witness to the Roger Stone indictment for acting as a cutout for Wikileaks (an organization proven to be a front for Russian Intelligence) in the hacked/stolen Hilary/Podesta emails.   The Right has always lied, stolen, cheated and attacked individuals in bad faith to advance their cause.   McCain was indeed a war hero.  John Kerry was indeed a war hero.

This is a person defending Trump whose presidential campaign: (a) asked for the help of a enemy state (fact established by Mueller), (b) received help from an enemy state (fact established by Mueller) (c) purposefully disseminated stolen information to have the largest effect on his opponent, the former Secretary of State (fact established by Mueller), (d) has since lied about Russia's involvement in the federal crime (fact established by US intelligence agencies and the FBI), and (e) blocked efforts to protect the US from this happening again (fact established by McConnell). 

You guys think he is going to come onto the internet and make good faith arguments?  Wouldn't waste my time if I were you.  In any thread.  Ever.

It's hard to be civil with people who are almost completely illogical and void of all common sense when it comes to history, policy creation, regulation, and economics.

Disclaimer:I think both parties are pretty much completely insane at this point. We have a bartender and a TV celebrity as the face of the two parties.....300ish mil people in the US who could run for President and we end up with people like this.

Both parties have always been insane, it's just that the press helped cover up that fact...The Obama's just bought a $15M mansion on Martha's Vineyard...The Clintons are worth a fortune.

Trump literally just tweeted out a Trump/Pence 2020 logo created by a Dutch Neo-Nazi group showing the Mussolini Lion.  Obama bought a really expense house with proceeds from writing best selling books.  And your response is :"BoTH sIDeS aRE tHE SaMe!!!!" 

You are intellectually and morally lost.

Both sides _are_ the same.  There are individuals on one side or the other that are better or worse, Obama might be better than Trump, but over the long term both parties want the same thing, more power residing in the federal government, a larger military, and more control over you.  Fighting over which guy is worse than which other guy is pointless.  I don't really think Trump is racist, I just think he's clueless.  Do you really think he thought through the significance of that Lion?  Do you really think he thinks through much of anything?  Even if he is racist and he's the worst president ever, as you believe, that doesn't make any of the others into good people, and it changes nothing about my point.  That doesn't say anything about the two parties or the system we all live under.  He'll be gone in 1-5 years or so and every problem with the federal government will remain and likely get worse under the next one, regardless of what party the next one is from, or how articulate and classy the next one is while our military is dropping bombs all over the world spreading death and chaos.  You are delusional if you thing there is a dimes worth of difference between the two parties.  Look at the budget the democratic house passed, something like $1.4T for the military.  Both parties are just as corrupt as each other and they are both just fronts for the Military Industrial Complex.  These issues both sides squabble over are just used to distract you and divide you.  Slight of hand so that you never focus on what's really going on.  That $1.4T is an indication of what is really going on.  What Tump says or does is just theater, not that Trump himself even knows any of this.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on August 30, 2019, 09:13:15 AM
Quote
You are delusional if you thing there is a dimes worth of difference between the two parties.  Look at the budget the democratic house passed, something like $1.4T for the military.  Both parties are just as corrupt as each other and they are both just fronts for the Military Industrial Complex.

Well, I'll tip some points to the Obama era, he passed major healthcare reform which was in desperate need. But to your point on the military he also maintained the Never-Ending-War.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: JSArbitrage on August 30, 2019, 09:49:59 AM
Why are you guys even arguing with cubs in good faith?  The Right hasn't been civil since most of us have been alive.  What they are doing to McCain is no different than what they did to Kerry.  This is intentional.  In fact, the author of the book that attempted to "Swiftboat" Kerry on his war record during the Presidential election was Jerome Corsi.  Jerome Corsi is actually a witness to the Roger Stone indictment for acting as a cutout for Wikileaks (an organization proven to be a front for Russian Intelligence) in the hacked/stolen Hilary/Podesta emails.   The Right has always lied, stolen, cheated and attacked individuals in bad faith to advance their cause.   McCain was indeed a war hero.  John Kerry was indeed a war hero.

This is a person defending Trump whose presidential campaign: (a) asked for the help of a enemy state (fact established by Mueller), (b) received help from an enemy state (fact established by Mueller) (c) purposefully disseminated stolen information to have the largest effect on his opponent, the former Secretary of State (fact established by Mueller), (d) has since lied about Russia's involvement in the federal crime (fact established by US intelligence agencies and the FBI), and (e) blocked efforts to protect the US from this happening again (fact established by McConnell). 

You guys think he is going to come onto the internet and make good faith arguments?  Wouldn't waste my time if I were you.  In any thread.  Ever.

It's hard to be civil with people who are almost completely illogical and void of all common sense when it comes to history, policy creation, regulation, and economics.

Disclaimer:I think both parties are pretty much completely insane at this point. We have a bartender and a TV celebrity as the face of the two parties.....300ish mil people in the US who could run for President and we end up with people like this.

Both parties have always been insane, it's just that the press helped cover up that fact...The Obama's just bought a $15M mansion on Martha's Vineyard...The Clintons are worth a fortune.

Trump literally just tweeted out a Trump/Pence 2020 logo created by a Dutch Neo-Nazi group showing the Mussolini Lion.  Obama bought a really expense house with proceeds from writing best selling books.  And your response is :"BoTH sIDeS aRE tHE SaMe!!!!" 

You are intellectually and morally lost.

Both sides _are_ the same.  There are individuals on one side or the other that are better or worse, Obama might be better than Trump, but over the long term both parties want the same thing, more power residing in the federal government, a larger military, and more control over you.  Fighting over which guy is worse than which other guy is pointless.  I don't really think Trump is racist, I just think he's clueless.  Do you really think he thought through the significance of that Lion?  Do you really think he thinks through much of anything?  Even if he is racist and he's the worst president ever, as you believe, that doesn't make any of the others into good people, and it changes nothing about my point.  That doesn't say anything about the two parties or the system we all live under.  He'll be gone in 1-5 years or so and every problem with the federal government will remain and likely get worse under the next one, regardless of what party the next one is from, or how articulate and classy the next one is while our military is dropping bombs all over the world spreading death and chaos.  You are delusional if you thing there is a dimes worth of difference between the two parties.  Look at the budget the democratic house passed, something like $1.4T for the military.  Both parties are just as corrupt as each other and they are both just fronts for the Military Industrial Complex.  These issues both sides squabble over are just used to distract you and divide you.  Slight of hand so that you never focus on what's really going on.  That $1.4T is an indication of what is really going on.  What Tump says or does is just theater, not that Trump himself even knows any of this.

Even if I accept your premise that both parties want the same things (which I don't) - that DOES NOT mean both sides are the same.  If you and I both have the goal of giving our children a better life, and I do it by being a successful investor and you do it by murdering grannies and stealing their stuff, WE ARE NOT THE SAME.

There is a very, very real human cost to this kind of cynicism.  Whatever rights of your own that you believe are being infringed upon by the ethereal "the federal government is getting too big," please compare that to the very real rights being taken away from individuals by the American right-wing. 

I agree that our MIC is too large.  I too am disappointed by the lack of either party to meaningfully do much about it.  But I also understand that one party is currently arguing in federal court that (a) simply being a homosexual is enough warrant being fired, (b) babies/toddlers taken from their parents and housed in cages do not have a right to toothbrushes, blankets, vaccinations or daily medical care and (c) explicitly gerrymandering election districts to reduce minority power is constitutional.

As an American, I believe our highest duty is to make sure our fellow Americans are given the rights they were promised under our American Constitution.  I also believe it is our duty to make sure non-citizens in the US are treated with dignity and respect and with a understanding that every human has basic, unalienable rights.  There is nothing in the Constitution outlining the maximum number of battleships we can have.   Therefore, it is mine (and your) moral duty to fight for everyone's rights first and debate details later.  This is no time for Socratic chin-rubbing.


Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on August 30, 2019, 09:58:50 AM
Why are you guys even arguing with cubs in good faith?  The Right hasn't been civil since most of us have been alive.  What they are doing to McCain is no different than what they did to Kerry.  This is intentional.  In fact, the author of the book that attempted to "Swiftboat" Kerry on his war record during the Presidential election was Jerome Corsi.  Jerome Corsi is actually a witness to the Roger Stone indictment for acting as a cutout for Wikileaks (an organization proven to be a front for Russian Intelligence) in the hacked/stolen Hilary/Podesta emails.   The Right has always lied, stolen, cheated and attacked individuals in bad faith to advance their cause.   McCain was indeed a war hero.  John Kerry was indeed a war hero.

This is a person defending Trump whose presidential campaign: (a) asked for the help of a enemy state (fact established by Mueller), (b) received help from an enemy state (fact established by Mueller) (c) purposefully disseminated stolen information to have the largest effect on his opponent, the former Secretary of State (fact established by Mueller), (d) has since lied about Russia's involvement in the federal crime (fact established by US intelligence agencies and the FBI), and (e) blocked efforts to protect the US from this happening again (fact established by McConnell). 

You guys think he is going to come onto the internet and make good faith arguments?  Wouldn't waste my time if I were you.  In any thread.  Ever.

It's hard to be civil with people who are almost completely illogical and void of all common sense when it comes to history, policy creation, regulation, and economics.

Disclaimer:I think both parties are pretty much completely insane at this point. We have a bartender and a TV celebrity as the face of the two parties.....300ish mil people in the US who could run for President and we end up with people like this.

Both parties have always been insane, it's just that the press helped cover up that fact...The Obama's just bought a $15M mansion on Martha's Vineyard...The Clintons are worth a fortune.

Trump literally just tweeted out a Trump/Pence 2020 logo created by a Dutch Neo-Nazi group showing the Mussolini Lion.  Obama bought a really expense house with proceeds from writing best selling books.  And your response is :"BoTH sIDeS aRE tHE SaMe!!!!" 

You are intellectually and morally lost.

Both sides _are_ the same.  There are individuals on one side or the other that are better or worse, Obama might be better than Trump, but over the long term both parties want the same thing, more power residing in the federal government, a larger military, and more control over you.  Fighting over which guy is worse than which other guy is pointless.  I don't really think Trump is racist, I just think he's clueless.  Do you really think he thought through the significance of that Lion?  Do you really think he thinks through much of anything?  Even if he is racist and he's the worst president ever, as you believe, that doesn't make any of the others into good people, and it changes nothing about my point.  That doesn't say anything about the two parties or the system we all live under.  He'll be gone in 1-5 years or so and every problem with the federal government will remain and likely get worse under the next one, regardless of what party the next one is from, or how articulate and classy the next one is while our military is dropping bombs all over the world spreading death and chaos.  You are delusional if you thing there is a dimes worth of difference between the two parties.  Look at the budget the democratic house passed, something like $1.4T for the military.  Both parties are just as corrupt as each other and they are both just fronts for the Military Industrial Complex.  These issues both sides squabble over are just used to distract you and divide you.  Slight of hand so that you never focus on what's really going on.  That $1.4T is an indication of what is really going on.  What Tump says or does is just theater, not that Trump himself even knows any of this.

Even if I accept your premise that both parties want the same things (which I don't) - that DOES NOT mean both sides are the same.  If you and I both have the goal of giving our children a better life, and I do it by being a successful investor and you do it by murdering grannies and stealing their stuff, WE ARE NOT THE SAME.

There is a very, very real human cost to this kind of cynicism.  Whatever rights of your own that you believe are being infringed upon by the ethereal "the federal government is getting too big," please compare that to the very real rights being taken away from individuals by the American right-wing. 

I agree that our MIC is too large.  I too am disappointed by the lack of either party to meaningfully do much about it.  But I also understand that one party is currently arguing in federal court that (a) simply being a homosexual is enough warrant being fired, (b) babies/toddlers taken from their parents and housed in cages do not have a right to toothbrushes, blankets, vaccinations or daily medical care and (c) explicitly gerrymandering election districts to reduce minority power is constitutional.

As an American, I believe our highest duty is to make sure our fellow Americans are given the rights they were promised under our American Constitution.  I also believe it is our duty to make sure non-citizens in the US are treated with dignity and respect and with a understanding that every human has basic, unalienable rights.  There is nothing in the Constitution outlining the maximum number of battleships we can have.   Therefore, it is mine (and your) moral duty to fight for everyone's rights first and debate details later.  This is no time for Socratic chin-rubbing.

I agree with all of the above about the right.   Buy are you considering the rights being taken away by the left wing?

In the end, if there are only two sides to choose from (I don't know why there has to be only two sides, but here we are), I will favor the side that doesn't want to take away my guns.  Every time.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on August 30, 2019, 10:12:20 AM
Why are you guys even arguing with cubs in good faith?  The Right hasn't been civil since most of us have been alive.  What they are doing to McCain is no different than what they did to Kerry.  This is intentional.  In fact, the author of the book that attempted to "Swiftboat" Kerry on his war record during the Presidential election was Jerome Corsi.  Jerome Corsi is actually a witness to the Roger Stone indictment for acting as a cutout for Wikileaks (an organization proven to be a front for Russian Intelligence) in the hacked/stolen Hilary/Podesta emails.   The Right has always lied, stolen, cheated and attacked individuals in bad faith to advance their cause.   McCain was indeed a war hero.  John Kerry was indeed a war hero.

This is a person defending Trump whose presidential campaign: (a) asked for the help of a enemy state (fact established by Mueller), (b) received help from an enemy state (fact established by Mueller) (c) purposefully disseminated stolen information to have the largest effect on his opponent, the former Secretary of State (fact established by Mueller), (d) has since lied about Russia's involvement in the federal crime (fact established by US intelligence agencies and the FBI), and (e) blocked efforts to protect the US from this happening again (fact established by McConnell). 

You guys think he is going to come onto the internet and make good faith arguments?  Wouldn't waste my time if I were you.  In any thread.  Ever.

It's hard to be civil with people who are almost completely illogical and void of all common sense when it comes to history, policy creation, regulation, and economics.

Disclaimer:I think both parties are pretty much completely insane at this point. We have a bartender and a TV celebrity as the face of the two parties.....300ish mil people in the US who could run for President and we end up with people like this.

Both parties have always been insane, it's just that the press helped cover up that fact...The Obama's just bought a $15M mansion on Martha's Vineyard...The Clintons are worth a fortune.

Trump literally just tweeted out a Trump/Pence 2020 logo created by a Dutch Neo-Nazi group showing the Mussolini Lion.  Obama bought a really expense house with proceeds from writing best selling books.  And your response is :"BoTH sIDeS aRE tHE SaMe!!!!" 

You are intellectually and morally lost.

Both sides _are_ the same.  There are individuals on one side or the other that are better or worse, Obama might be better than Trump, but over the long term both parties want the same thing, more power residing in the federal government, a larger military, and more control over you.  Fighting over which guy is worse than which other guy is pointless.  I don't really think Trump is racist, I just think he's clueless.  Do you really think he thought through the significance of that Lion?  Do you really think he thinks through much of anything?  Even if he is racist and he's the worst president ever, as you believe, that doesn't make any of the others into good people, and it changes nothing about my point.  That doesn't say anything about the two parties or the system we all live under.  He'll be gone in 1-5 years or so and every problem with the federal government will remain and likely get worse under the next one, regardless of what party the next one is from, or how articulate and classy the next one is while our military is dropping bombs all over the world spreading death and chaos.  You are delusional if you thing there is a dimes worth of difference between the two parties.  Look at the budget the democratic house passed, something like $1.4T for the military.  Both parties are just as corrupt as each other and they are both just fronts for the Military Industrial Complex.  These issues both sides squabble over are just used to distract you and divide you.  Slight of hand so that you never focus on what's really going on.  That $1.4T is an indication of what is really going on.  What Tump says or does is just theater, not that Trump himself even knows any of this.
As an American, I believe our highest duty is to make sure our fellow Americans are given the rights they were promised under our American Constitution.  I also believe it is our duty to make sure non-citizens in the US are treated with dignity and respect and with a understanding that every human has basic, unalienable rights.  There is nothing in the Constitution outlining the maximum number of battleships we can have.   Therefore, it is mine (and your) moral duty to fight for everyone's rights first and debate details later.  This is no time for Socratic chin-rubbing.

Please tell me what those rights are.

Also the Constitution is very clear about the military. Its adamantly against interventionism and standing armies.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rukawa on August 31, 2019, 10:13:35 AM
I agree that our MIC is too large.  I too am disappointed by the lack of either party to meaningfully do much about it.  But I also understand that one party is currently arguing in federal court that (a) simply being a homosexual is enough warrant being fired, (b) babies/toddlers taken from their parents and housed in cages do not have a right to toothbrushes, blankets, vaccinations or daily medical care and (c) explicitly gerrymandering election districts to reduce minority power is constitutional.

As an American, I believe our highest duty is to make sure our fellow Americans are given the rights they were promised under our American Constitution.  I also believe it is our duty to make sure non-citizens in the US are treated with dignity and respect and with a understanding that every human has basic, unalienable rights.  There is nothing in the Constitution outlining the maximum number of battleships we can have.   Therefore, it is mine (and your) moral duty to fight for everyone's rights first and debate details later.  This is no time for Socratic chin-rubbing.

I think most people could agree with a lot of what you have written. I certainly agree that non-citizens in the US have strong constitutional rights within the US and ought to be treated with dignity and respect. Where I think we would part is that you ignore the huge burden on rights that the Left  has created. Your just are blind to it. That is why you don't equate both sides..you are able to see the faults of one side but you are blind to the faults of YOUR side.

If you want a huge number of examples...just go here:
https://ij.org/

or here:
https://reason.com/

or this:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/
(Yes I know liberals think this piece was really criticizing racism...but another way to look at it is that he was criticizing liberal, Democratic interference in housing that led to pervasive racial segregation. A PROBLEM THE LEFT CREATED!!)

Or lets think of something straightforward like gun control. The Left thinks gun control is like apple pie and rainbows...the greatest thing since sliced bread. But how do you enforce gun control? Who does it get enforced against? Primarily black people. Stop and frisk was the single most effective gun control policy in the US. Somehow this is all forgotten and the Left then start complaining about how many black people are getting shot and getting stopped. They don't seem to connect the idea that the enforcement of a policy they ADVOCATED is creating problems. They are simply blind to it. Its a racial problem, not a policy problem.

Or take Eric Garner. He was repeatedly hounded by cops for selling illegal cigarettes. Liberals complain about the racial bias of cops but no one thinks to about why selling cigarettes was illegal in the first place. You say the problem is the cops...I say the problem is the illegality of selling. I'm also really tired, tired, tired of the cognitive dissonance...no outright stupidity...when it comes to how legal systems work. YOU CAN"T JUST PASS A LAW. It needs needs needs to be enforced. How do you enforce a law...COPS. Liberals keep passing more and more laws. More and more regulations and then complain about the police. There is no magical enforcement. Enforcement requires cops and cops are not perfect. They will hurt people.

Liberals have created a massive regulatory state. They pretend that there are no rights abuses that this regulatory state creates. But that is a lie. The regulatory state itself requires a police state. The only place where liberals seems to connect the dots are their favorite issues: drugs and immigration. But there are many places where they are blind: property rights, licensing laws, Title X in universities, economic regulations, child welfare laws, housing, environmental laws etc.

For instance you complain a lot about children being separated from parents. But the government has been doing to US CITIZENS for decades and decades and liberals are completely silent about it. Reason magazine (a Koch funded site) isn't:
https://reason.com/2019/05/28/strip-searched-cops-holly-curry/ (https://reason.com/2019/05/28/strip-searched-cops-holly-curry/)
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Spekulatius on September 01, 2019, 03:46:46 PM
Elizabeth Warren is one of the most deranged politician I have ever seen. Like Hillary's level of hysteria times 5 to 10.

Furthermore, all her concepts are European socialism garbage. Keep that home please! Keep digging that hole Europe.

Cardboard

These quotes about European socialism make me cringe. They come from people who never lived in socialism and mostly haven’t lived or even travelled much out of the US. There actually isn’t a single socialist governed country in Europe any more. Some country are government by social democrats, but the system is clearly capitalism with some. People that live their would tell you that as well.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on September 01, 2019, 07:55:33 PM
Spek, you are exactly right.

If you ask these people, "Which US candidate is trying to seize the means of production" - you can literally see the wheels spinning off the rails. The fact is, there isn't one.

So therefore I conclude that the folks making these claims are either uninformed or  willfully misrepresenting things. Ultimately, it is just lazy rhetoric being used to try to "win" with sound bytes.

I said it earlier (http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/politics/the-bitter-hostility-of-the-left/msg380261/#msg380261 (http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/politics/the-bitter-hostility-of-the-left/msg380261/#msg380261)) and I'll say it again:

Quote
it’s hard to have a conversation when the starting point is “well this is my talking point”.

For example, Sanders = socialism. Trump = racist. Koch = satan. Ilhan = anti-semite.

If this is the starting point, already we are not trying to find solutions but just trying to point fingers.


Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: John Hjorth on September 02, 2019, 09:11:00 AM
Elizabeth Warren is one of the most deranged politician I have ever seen. Like Hillary's level of hysteria times 5 to 10.

Furthermore, all her concepts are European socialism garbage. Keep that home please! Keep digging that hole Europe.

Cardboard

These quotes about European socialism make me cringe. They come from people who never lived in socialism and mostly haven’t lived or even travelled much out of the US. There actually isn’t a single socialist governed country in Europe any more. Some country are government by social democrats, but the system is clearly capitalism with some. People that live their would tell you that as well.

+1. I couldn't phrase it better. And I'm one of the CoBF members living such a place. One of the things I've realized over the years by reading here on CoBF about living conditions other places is to really appreciate my own living conditions up here in the northern part of Europe. [That does not in any way make things perfect here in tiny Denmark though.]

Personally, I've always had a special interest in posts about such matters from CoBF members, who have actually tried experienced living on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean [here, for me, especially Jurgis, Spekulatius & rb].
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Cardboard on September 03, 2019, 05:02:42 AM
Funny that you guys assume that I have not lived, worked and travelled over there. LOL!

Now you can go back to your bubble and misconceptions.

Cardboard
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on September 03, 2019, 07:24:00 AM
Elizabeth Warren is one of the most deranged politician I have ever seen. Like Hillary's level of hysteria times 5 to 10.

Furthermore, all her concepts are European socialism garbage. Keep that home please! Keep digging that hole Europe.

Cardboard

These quotes about European socialism make me cringe. They come from people who never lived in socialism and mostly haven’t lived or even travelled much out of the US. There actually isn’t a single socialist governed country in Europe any more. Some country are government by social democrats, but the system is clearly capitalism with some. People that live their would tell you that as well.

I agree with this to an extent. But this works both ways. We have liberals over here pointing to EU countries saying "we need to adopt more socialist policies like Denmark!" Then we have their PM come out and say Denmark isn't socialist in an economic sense.

But, I also think it's disingenuous to paint countries with a broad brushes (within reason). Depending on what policies/characteristics you're talking about you could say (insert country) is capitalistic or socialist. You could say the US is "socialist" if all you talk about is the police, fire department, welfare state, and public school system.

Anecdotal: The majority of people I work with are from Prague and Germany. Let me tell you the overwhelming majority of them love the US and do not want to go back when their visas are about to expiration. Again, that's only about 40-50 people. They aren't saying it's terrible to live there, but simply the US has more opportunity and general freedom.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on September 03, 2019, 01:42:10 PM
Spek, you are exactly right.

If you ask these people, "Which US candidate is trying to seize the means of production" - you can literally see the wheels spinning off the rails. The fact is, there isn't one.

So therefore I conclude that the folks making these claims are either uninformed or  willfully misrepresenting things. Ultimately, it is just lazy rhetoric being used to try to "win" with sound bytes.

Look at Denmark and their 55% income tax rate. Is this not simply a different angle at "seizing the means of production"? There are plenty of politicians who would advocate for such high taxes.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on September 04, 2019, 10:20:01 AM
Spek, you are exactly right.

If you ask these people, "Which US candidate is trying to seize the means of production" - you can literally see the wheels spinning off the rails. The fact is, there isn't one.

So therefore I conclude that the folks making these claims are either uninformed or  willfully misrepresenting things. Ultimately, it is just lazy rhetoric being used to try to "win" with sound bytes.

Look at Denmark and their 55% income tax rate. Is this not simply a different angle at "seizing the means of production"? There are plenty of politicians who would advocate for such high taxes.

Another way to look at it is in Denmark 30% of the workforce is in the public sector where in the US it is 15%.  Although I hesitate to call the public sector labor "production" though, because it produces very little of value.  But it is extremely wasteful. All of that labor seized by the state which could be doing useful things in the private sector benefiting everyone. And  all of that labor is not only withheld from the private sector, but capital is stolen from the private sector to pay the wages, and build the buildings, etc.  It is waste on a colossal scale.

 
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Cardboard on September 05, 2019, 05:27:51 AM
Maybe that is how they manage to avoid 10%+ unemployment rates as in so many European countries?

http://cphpost.dk/news/business/low-unemployment-rate-becoming-an-hindrance-to-denmarks-economic-growth.html

Indeed, they see it as a bad sign that people are employed as it may lead to less growth and inflation due to less labour availability. Funny that there is no sign of that in countries with lower unemployment rates and with them already scratching their heads as to what to do with these negative government yields...

In any case, they have less than 6 million people. New York City is bigger than that... It was ridiculous for Obama to tell Americans to copy the model of this tiny country with its highly diverse industries, vast distances, etc.

Cardboard
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on September 16, 2019, 11:37:55 AM
The Hostility of the Left continues today with Presidential Candidates Warren, O'Rourke, Harris, Castro, etc - calling for the impeachment
of Brett Kavanaugh from US Supreme Court. No matter that new allegations can not be remembered by the actual victim.
No regard for the Bill of Rights or US Constitution - and these people are candidates for President?

What a moral disaster the Left has become. Rule of law means nothing anymore, only political power.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Gregmal on September 16, 2019, 11:47:54 AM
The Hostility of the Left continues today with Presidential Candidates Warren, O'Rourke, Harris, Castro, etc - calling for the impeachment
of Brett Kavanaugh from US Supreme Court. No matter that new allegations can not be remembered by the actual victim.
No regard for the Bill of Rights or US Constitution - and these people are candidates for President?

What a moral disaster the Left has become. Rule of law means nothing anymore, only political power.

I saw this over the weekend and literally laughed out loud. From Pocahontas or Bob O'Rouke, to Koomala and friends...these idiots are so consumed by their anti Trump vitriol and burning desire to manipulate their stupid base that they are just blindly mimic each other; jumping to be the first to tweet or have their "soundbite" go viral whenever the faintest chance to slam a Republican comes up. So amusing.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Tim Eriksen on September 16, 2019, 12:36:00 PM
The Hostility of the Left continues today with Presidential Candidates Warren, O'Rourke, Harris, Castro, etc - calling for the impeachment
of Brett Kavanaugh from US Supreme Court. No matter that new allegations can not be remembered by the actual victim.
No regard for the Bill of Rights or US Constitution - and these people are candidates for President?

What a moral disaster the Left has become. Rule of law means nothing anymore, only political power.

The allegations are not new. 
https://twitter.com/GrassleyPress/status/1173364465791901701
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on September 16, 2019, 01:05:20 PM
What's new is - when a confirmation vote is close, and the Left loses it - the new strategy is to smear and impeach instead of just suck it up and deal with it.

First with the President and now with a Supreme Court Justice.

Personally, I prefer the old system of - when my candidate loses -  admit you lost and put forth a new candidate
and agenda that make sense.  These new tactics are disgraceful for a democracy. Makes the US look like a banana republic.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Value^2 on October 19, 2019, 06:56:28 AM
https://twitter.com/SergioGor/status/1185329130922860544    ;D
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on October 19, 2019, 07:44:19 AM
https://twitter.com/SergioGor/status/1185329130922860544    ;D

The middle figure is a sign of love, inclusiveness and tolerance. She is just showing the love of the left.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Parsad on October 19, 2019, 08:33:37 AM
https://twitter.com/SergioGor/status/1185329130922860544    ;D

The middle figure is a sign of love, inclusiveness and tolerance. She is just showing the love of the left.

How many videos can I put up of the right doing the same thing?  Although those videos would show "Sieg Heils", a Nazi driving over a woman, and loathing remarks by the PRESIDENT regarding women, minorities, war heros, peers, his own Administration, his lawyers, his global allies and statistical lies up the ying-yang! 

The right has been giving the middle finger for over 25 years now...inequalities in income and wealth show nothing but class warfare that has now taken up American politicis...really global politics.  Quality of life in general continues to increase, but how many are benefiting from that improvement has been stagnant at best.  Cheers!
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on October 19, 2019, 09:13:22 AM
https://twitter.com/SergioGor/status/1185329130922860544    ;D

The middle figure is a sign of love, inclusiveness and tolerance. She is just showing the love of the left.

How many videos can I put up of the right doing the same thing?  Although those videos would show "Sieg Heils", a Nazi driving over a woman, and loathing remarks by the PRESIDENT regarding women, minorities, war heros, peers, his own Administration, his lawyers, his global allies and statistical lies up the ying-yang! 

The right has been giving the middle finger for over 25 years now...inequalities in income and wealth show nothing but class warfare that has now taken up American politicis...really global politics.  Quality of life in general continues to increase, but how many are benefiting from that improvement has been stagnant at best.  Cheers!

The Nazis people tend to be "alt-right" or far right - sort of like antifa and the "far left". The "normal" left does seem to be crazier than normal "right" folks.

And no, I don't think Trump really counts since he isn't really a Republican. He's more of the Party of Convenience, I would say.

https://www.biography.com/us-president/donald-trump

"Donald Trump’s Political Party: Republican or Democrat?
Trump is currently registered as a Republican. He has switched parties several times in the past three decades.

In 1987, Trump registered as a Republican; two years later, in 1989, he registered as an Independent. In 2000, Trump ran for president for the first time on the Reform platform. In 2001, he registered as a Democrat.

By 2009, Trump had switched back to the Republican party, although he registered as an Independent in 2011 to allow for a potential run in the following year’s presidential election. He finally returned to the Republican party to endorse Mitt Romney’s 2012 presidential run and has remained a Republican since. "

Wealth inequality was driven largely by Obama and Clinton, for the record. Though I'll agree that it really got started under Reagan.

A further huge rise in wealth inequality was NAFTA and China under Clinton:

https://www.nytimes.com/2000/05/25/world/china-trade-vote-clinton-triumph-house-237-197-vote-approves-normal-trade-rights.html

To be clear, Republicans are to blame for that too.

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Value^2 on October 19, 2019, 01:25:13 PM
https://twitter.com/SergioGor/status/1185329130922860544    ;D

The middle figure is a sign of love, inclusiveness and tolerance. She is just showing the love of the left.

How many videos can I put up of the right doing the same thing?  Although those videos would show "Sieg Heils", a Nazi driving over a woman, and loathing remarks by the PRESIDENT regarding women, minorities, war heros, peers, his own Administration, his lawyers, his global allies and statistical lies up the ying-yang! 

The right has been giving the middle finger for over 25 years now...inequalities in income and wealth show nothing but class warfare that has now taken up American politicis...really global politics.  Quality of life in general continues to increase, but how many are benefiting from that improvement has been stagnant at best.  Cheers!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHNDCItVUAA4Mdx?format=jpg&name=small)




 ;)
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Gregmal on October 19, 2019, 01:55:02 PM
https://twitter.com/SergioGor/status/1185329130922860544    ;D

The middle figure is a sign of love, inclusiveness and tolerance. She is just showing the love of the left.

How many videos can I put up of the right doing the same thing?  Although those videos would show "Sieg Heils", a Nazi driving over a woman, and loathing remarks by the PRESIDENT regarding women, minorities, war heros, peers, his own Administration, his lawyers, his global allies and statistical lies up the ying-yang! 

The right has been giving the middle finger for over 25 years now...inequalities in income and wealth show nothing but class warfare that has now taken up American politicis...really global politics.  Quality of life in general continues to increase, but how many are benefiting from that improvement has been stagnant at best.  Cheers!

Calling bullshit on the "quality of life" and "income inequality" argument. Poor people in other countries run around in loin clothes eating insects and showering in rivers. Poor people in this country eat several hot meals a day, have $1000 iPhones and wear $300 "kicks" as they call them.... Income inequality in other terms just seems like jealousy. Want to talk livable wage? Take your $35K a year to Malaysia or India and go see what poor really is. Americans have largely just become whiny, entitled bitches.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: RuleNumberOne on October 19, 2019, 02:14:38 PM
In California, they don't need Elizabeth's lousy $200 SS hike.

https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2019/05/04/editorial-alarming-data-shows-public-employee-pension-crisis-worsening/

"Late last month, the group released data that reported the number of retirees from the California Public Employees’ Retirement System (CalPERS) receiving pensions of $100,000 or more rose from 14,760 in 2012 to 30,969 in 2018.

The average pension for full-career state employees enrolled in the plan for non-public safety workers was $63,057, according to Transparent California’s records. For retirees enrolled in the plan for public safety members, the average pension in 2018 was $84,197.

And the numbers are higher for local government employees; for regular employees,  the average pension was $74,599 in 2018, while the average pension for local public safety retirees was $108,320.

The trend is also bad for the California State Teachers’ Retirement System, which serves educators. The number of CalSTRS retirees who received pensions worth $100,000 or more grew from 6,033 in 2011 to 15,559 in 2018. The average pension for full-career CalSTRS retirees hit an all-time high of $73,920 in 2018, up more than $10,000 from 2011, according to Transparent California."
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Read the Footnotes on October 19, 2019, 04:11:04 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHNDCItVUAA4Mdx?format=jpg&name=small)


You're killing me, or at least you could have killed me. I'm glad I wasn't drinking or eating anything. I laughed so hard you could have taken me out with that picture.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on October 19, 2019, 05:35:29 PM

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHNDCItVUAA4Mdx?format=jpg&name=small)


You're killing me, or at least you could have killed me. I'm glad I wasn't drinking or eating anything. I laughed so hard you could have taken me out with that picture.

If anything, we should all be very thankful we're not married to this one. ;)
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Read the Footnotes on October 19, 2019, 05:50:33 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHNDCItVUAA4Mdx?format=jpg&name=small)

In unrelated news . . . NYC real estate prices dropped precipitously today.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Gregmal on October 19, 2019, 11:11:24 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHNDCItVUAA4Mdx?format=jpg&name=small)

In unrelated news . . . NYC real estate prices dropped precipitously today.

This is a pure animal, I guarantee, 100% she is either single or divorced at least once(probably many times over). While hardly symbolic of America, quite fitting for NYC...
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cobafdek on October 21, 2019, 10:24:58 PM
https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/2019/10/20/if-you-didnt-already-love-in-n-out-burger-check-how-they-responded-when-the-climate-change-gang-showed-up/
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on October 22, 2019, 07:00:42 AM
https://www.dailywire.com/news/jury-rules-against-texas-dad-trying-to-save-7-year-old-son-from-gender-transition-potential-castration


Texas has O'Rourke and now this...what is going on down there???

The father noted that, in his opinion, he witnessed that his wife “was only giving [James] love and affection when he was acting like a girl.” She used to lock James in his room and tell him monsters only eat boys, Younger added.

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on October 22, 2019, 07:07:06 AM
https://www.dailywire.com/news/jury-rules-against-texas-dad-trying-to-save-7-year-old-son-from-gender-transition-potential-castration


Texas has O'Rourke and now this...what is going on down there???

The father noted that, in his opinion, he witnessed that his wife “was only giving [James] love and affection when he was acting like a girl.” She used to lock James in his room and tell him monsters only eat boys, Younger added.



Doctor:  "So have you always felt that you were a girl?"
Boy:  "No, but Mom says the monsters can't get me if I cut off my pee pee".
Doctor:  "Well, I don't want to be transphobic, so we can schedule the surgery for next Tuesday."
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on October 22, 2019, 07:11:49 AM
The transgender suicide rate is around 40%. 

What a fool the mother is.

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on October 22, 2019, 07:13:58 AM
That is sickening
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on October 28, 2019, 12:41:27 PM
Kind of sad when the US military takes out THE major figure today in terrorism - and the Democrat/Media complex can't acknowledge the
significance and congratulate the President.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/varney-slams-dems-reaction-to-baghdadi-your-contempt-will-not-be-forgotten

"It was hard to watch," Varney said, "Democrats just couldn't give any credit to the president for the killing of the world's most brutal terrorist...I don't think that's going to go down very well."

This country is not going to come together until the LEFT and the Media in this country is destroyed. Hopefully, that day is coming.

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on October 28, 2019, 12:49:18 PM
Kind of sad when the US military takes out THE major figure today in terrorism - and the Democrat/Media complex can't acknowledge the
significance and congratulate the President.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/varney-slams-dems-reaction-to-baghdadi-your-contempt-will-not-be-forgotten

"It was hard to watch," Varney said, "Democrats just couldn't give any credit to the president for the killing of the world's most brutal terrorist...I don't think that's going to go down very well."

This country is not going to come together until the LEFT and the Media in this country is destroyed. Hopefully, that day is coming.

Yes this has to be read in its entirety to be believed:

"austere religious scholar with wire-frame glasses and no known aptitude for fighting and killing"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-islamic-states-terrorist-in-chief-dies-at-48/2019/10/27/0d004abc-663d-11e7-8eb5-cbccc2e7bfbf_story.html

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on October 28, 2019, 01:03:04 PM
Kind of sad when the US military takes out THE major figure today in terrorism - and the Democrat/Media complex can't acknowledge the
significance and congratulate the President.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/varney-slams-dems-reaction-to-baghdadi-your-contempt-will-not-be-forgotten

"It was hard to watch," Varney said, "Democrats just couldn't give any credit to the president for the killing of the world's most brutal terrorist...I don't think that's going to go down very well."

This country is not going to come together until the LEFT and the Media in this country is destroyed. Hopefully, that day is coming.

Oh, you sweet summer child:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/260549166776852480
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on October 28, 2019, 01:08:43 PM
Kind of sad when the US military takes out THE major figure today in terrorism - and the Democrat/Media complex can't acknowledge the
significance and congratulate the President.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/varney-slams-dems-reaction-to-baghdadi-your-contempt-will-not-be-forgotten

"It was hard to watch," Varney said, "Democrats just couldn't give any credit to the president for the killing of the world's most brutal terrorist...I don't think that's going to go down very well."

This country is not going to come together until the LEFT and the Media in this country is destroyed. Hopefully, that day is coming.

Oh, you sweet summer child:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/260549166776852480

Did fox news write a heartwarming obituary about the passing of the austere religious scholar?   I must have missed that.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on October 28, 2019, 01:13:07 PM
This must be the part where you change the topic to something that Trump's own words don't directly contradict.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on October 28, 2019, 01:20:50 PM
Touche' LC -  The US Military deserves almost all of the credit - no doubt, as they are incredible.

Still - this is one of the greatest days of the Trump Presidency, as the 2 current ISIS leaders have been taken out.
I'd say, Obama's peak was the takeout of Bin Laden - and he made hay on that for years. And Obama deserved a ton of credit,
as it's the only good thing he did for 8 years.  I think almost all US citizens were proud of Obama AND our military.
It was a cause for great celebration.

Of course, no such congratulations will EVER be extended to President Trump by the LEFT, Democrats or Media because of their
intense hatred of Trump. That hypocrisy and decency will never change.

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on October 28, 2019, 01:28:44 PM
I guess the Washington Post has done this in the past.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on October 28, 2019, 01:31:27 PM
ROFLMAO
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on October 28, 2019, 01:37:34 PM
It really is a win for the western world. Trump and Obama deserve the same amount of credit (however much credit that happens to be).

I mean, it's not like Obama and Trump were planning extraction points and rappelling out of military helicopters with assault rifles and night vision. If you ask me they just happened to be the guy who was elected President when the military was able to conduct the operation.

One thing it does signify is the importance that functions of government should be unencumbered by bullshit politics, otherwise they will simply not function as effectively.

Touche' LC -  The US Military deserves almost all of the credit - no doubt, as they are incredible.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on October 28, 2019, 01:43:03 PM
LC - FINALLY we agree on something - this IS a historic day!

Cheers Bro!
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on November 12, 2019, 08:29:22 AM
I guess this change-the-sex-of-your-children form of child abuse popular with the U.S. left is spreading to other countries too.


"A young boy from Guanajito, Mexico, was starved, whipped, battered, hammered, burned with cigarettes, frequently physically abused before being beaten to death by his mother for refusing to dress like a girl"

https://nationalfile.com/mexico-lesbian-mom-beats-son-to-death-for-not-dressing-like-a-girl/
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on November 12, 2019, 01:04:54 PM
form of child abuse popular with the U.S. left
Baseless bullshit. You owe left-leaning Americans an apology.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on November 12, 2019, 01:54:04 PM
Here is more child abuse by the left:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxdvOLdG_34&t

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdCXxUxI-WE

This is totally normal. I'm sure the leftist parents had nothing to do with this.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Gregmal on November 12, 2019, 02:00:03 PM
Hey, dont be offensive to LC and the Libs! Maybe they are just the "luxury belief" type...

https://nypost.com/2019/08/17/luxury-beliefs-are-the-latest-status-symbol-for-rich-americans/

Its just a status thing, they dont actually believe all this batshit crazy rhetoric! Let the losers continue redefining the dictionary and stay woke!

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on November 12, 2019, 02:07:06 PM
form of child abuse popular with the U.S. left
Baseless bullshit. You owe left-leaning Americans an apology.

So much...hate and intolerance, lc!
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on November 12, 2019, 04:58:52 PM
Ah, a story as old as time: black-and-white thinking has atrophied the brain. You see it with the strongly religious, the political extremists, and of course the racists, homophobics, etc. This time isn't different.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on November 13, 2019, 06:17:40 AM
Ah, a story as old as time: black-and-white thinking has atrophied the brain. You see it with the strongly religious, the political extremists, and of course the racists, homophobics, etc. This time isn't different.

You are correct.  I'm sorry.  I fully support your right to burn your son with cigarettes and beat him to death if he refuses to wear a dress.  My prior thinking was just anti-LBTQQIABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP to the max.

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on November 13, 2019, 06:45:12 AM
Ah, a story as old as time: black-and-white thinking has atrophied the brain. You see it with the strongly religious, the political extremists, and of course the racists, homophobics, etc. This time isn't different.

As yes, atrophy of the brain with black and white thinking describes the left perfectly. Even the former Divider in Chief agrees with me here:

"This idea of purity, and you're never compromised, and you're always politically woke, and all that stuff, you should get over that quickly," Obama said. "The world is messy. There are ambiguities. People who do really good stuff have flaws."

As far as being "racist" goes, why is that wrong, in your worldview? It, like almost all other parts of our humanity has its base in evolution. I'm sure there is some survival benefit to it. Tribe A looks different than Tribe B so its safer to stick with Tribe A. Since you believe there is no higher moral truth, let's not act like racism is "bad."

Your view of the world is "corrupted" by your Judeo-Christian westernization. If there is no god then there is no such thing as human rights nor is man made in a deity's image. As a result, it's irrational to think that we should get over "racism" since there is nothing wrong with it.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on November 13, 2019, 07:19:29 AM
Guys, we need to stop being racist bigots and embrace drag queen story hour in our public school systems.

Side story: My nephew who is in 2nd grade was told by his liberal teacher (public school) that his best friend (classic best buds) may actually be more than just a friend. She told him all about sexuality and different types of relationships. My sister found out from her son during dinner that her teacher said this to him. I'm sorry, but the only thing a 2nd grader needs to be worried about is long division and what kickball team he will be on at recess. Apparently she has said this to other students as well.

LC you're wrong. The only group of people pushing this kind of stuff are leftists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxdvOLdG_34

Sorry, but anyone who pushes/supports stuff like in this video is right up there with Jeffery Epstein in my book. Lets brainwash and confuse kids and then have them paraded around in front of a bunch of adults. This kid goes to bars and all kinds of places and "puts on shows" for grown men.

You want to do this as a grown adult that's you're prerogative. I couldn't care less. This is America, do what you want. Leave the kids out of it.


Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on November 13, 2019, 07:24:18 AM
Ah, a story as old as time: black-and-white thinking has atrophied the brain. You see it with the strongly religious, the political extremists, and of course the racists, homophobics, etc. This time isn't different.

You are correct.  I'm sorry.  I fully support your right to burn your son with cigarettes and beat him to death if he refuses to wear a dress.  My prior thinking was just anti-LBTQQIABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP to the max.

Your prior link between "the left" and these child abusers is spurious and, as I already mentioned, insulting.

Paul's description of "black and white thinking describes the left perfectly" is also spurious. Which is more ironic than insulting in his case.

It's tribal thinking, but ultimately an unsatisfying and inaccurate perspective, and frankly boring.

Quote
LC you're wrong. The only group of people pushing this kind of stuff are leftists.
And the group pushing a racist, neo-nazi agenda are right-wing extremists. But I don't claim "the right" are neo-nazis - and I would vehemently disagree with anyone who does.

Most conservatives would never identify with a bunch of racists in Charlotsville, but some folks here have no problem identifying liberals with these child abusers, as RK just did.

Just another case of the fundamental attribution error.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: frankhkii on November 13, 2019, 07:45:38 AM
This generalizing on both sides is dangerous, and sadly, there's a lot of it in this post. People are identifying each side with their extremes, and I fear that the sympathizers on each side move that way through the lack of differing opinions within their circles.

I'd recommend all people concerned listen to some sober thinkers like Eric Weinstein (The Portal podcast is new and great), Naval Ravikant, Joe Rogan, etc. Below are some excellent non-partisan podcasts that seem to have meaningful and timely messages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qHkcs3kG44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWCN3CPhTI

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/1-peter-thiel/id1469999563?i=1000444670908

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/9-bryan-callen-cracking-wise/id1469999563?i=1000455554968

*First and hopefully my last post on the politics board.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on November 13, 2019, 08:11:28 AM
This generalizing on both sides is dangerous, and sadly, there's a lot of it in this post. People are identifying each side with their extremes, and I fear that the sympathizers on each side move that way through the lack of differing opinions within their circles.

I'd recommend all people concerned listen to some sober thinkers like Eric Weinstein (The Portal podcast is new and great), Naval Ravikant, Joe Rogan, etc. Below are some excellent non-partisan podcasts that seem to have meaningful and timely messages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qHkcs3kG44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWCN3CPhTI

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/1-peter-thiel/id1469999563?i=1000444670908

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/9-bryan-callen-cracking-wise/id1469999563?i=1000455554968

*First and hopefully my last post on the politics board.

If I was conflating by using extremes I would have said all leftist support Antifa and communism. That is much more comparable to the neo nazi extremes found on the far right.

Last time I checked, the GOP has yet to hold a Neo Nazi rally. I have yet to see republican teachers invite Neo Nazi speakers to elementary schools so they can tell children about the wonders of the Third Reich.

I think it's quite natural to have extreme people show up to public rallies. Neither party can prevent that. But when prominent figures of either party, whether that be candidates, talk show hosts, etc. go out of there way to host such groups there is a line that is crossed.

Do you think it's unfair to say that leftists whether individuals or talking heads are far more vocal (in general) when it comes to pushing an agenda? The left can't leave people alone. They HAVE to get everyone on board with their views.

Bill Burr summed it up nicely - "Smoke weed, buy a gun, get an abortion, be gay, cut off your dick and buy some tits, just shut the hell up about it. I'm pro leaving people the F alone and minding your own business."
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Schwab711 on November 13, 2019, 09:13:44 AM

Last time I checked, the GOP has yet to hold a Neo Nazi rally. I have yet to see republican teachers invite Neo Nazi speakers to elementary schools so they can tell children about the wonders of the Third Reich.

I think it's quite natural to have extreme people show up to public rallies. Neither party can prevent that. But when prominent figures of either party, whether that be candidates, talk show hosts, etc. go out of there way to host such groups there is a line that is crossed.

Do you think it's unfair to say that leftists whether individuals or talking heads are far more vocal (in general) when it comes to pushing an agenda? The left can't leave people alone. They HAVE to get everyone on board with their views.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-steve-king-slammed-by-fellow-gop-colleagues-for-white-supremacist-remark
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-11-12/stephen-miller-white-house-racist-immigration-emails

At one point, someone said that we shouldn't always refer to everything being Rep or Dem's faults. Cubsfan and Gregmal immediately agreed and then everyone went back to always blaming "The Left" or "Dems". Stahleyp writes that there are no morals if you are not a god-fearing man. That seems a bit extreme of an assumption. I can only recall one post by you about FDX and otherwise you have been pushing your political views with regularity. Yet you are complaining about others doing what you do?

It seems like folks are trying to blame any individual Dem-leaning person for every action by every person that might lean that direction. Pre-Trump, everyone complained about being called a racist because some Reps were ignorant. It's again just doing the same behavior that folks complained about. Turn the other cheek at some point. With politics especially, we are always apt to blame people today for actions by people who are now dead. It makes no sense yet we all do it.

If all you do is look for things you don't like, that's all you'll find and it will cloud your world view.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on November 13, 2019, 09:14:09 AM
Just the extremes of the far left are pushing this?


https://time.com/4422613/democratic-convention-first-transgender-sarah-mcbride/


Or how about the Equality Act?

So if my 1st grader has a transgender teacher, and they teach them about "gender identity" I should be cool with it?

Or if my daughter is in an athletic completion for a scholarship and losing to a transgender athlete, I should be cool there too?

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on November 13, 2019, 09:18:36 AM

Last time I checked, the GOP has yet to hold a Neo Nazi rally. I have yet to see republican teachers invite Neo Nazi speakers to elementary schools so they can tell children about the wonders of the Third Reich.

I think it's quite natural to have extreme people show up to public rallies. Neither party can prevent that. But when prominent figures of either party, whether that be candidates, talk show hosts, etc. go out of there way to host such groups there is a line that is crossed.

Do you think it's unfair to say that leftists whether individuals or talking heads are far more vocal (in general) when it comes to pushing an agenda? The left can't leave people alone. They HAVE to get everyone on board with their views.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-steve-king-slammed-by-fellow-gop-colleagues-for-white-supremacist-remark
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-11-12/stephen-miller-white-house-racist-immigration-emails

At one point, someone said that we shouldn't always refer to everything being Rep or Dem's faults. Cubsfan and Gregmal immediately agreed and then everyone went back to always blaming "The Left" or "Dems". Stahleyp writes that there are no morals if you are not a god-fearing man. That seems a bit extreme of an assumption. I can only recall one post by you about FDX and otherwise you have been pushing your political views with regularity. Yet you are complaining about others doing what you do?

It seems like folks are trying to blame any individual Dem-leaning person for every action by every person that might lean that direction. Pre-Trump, everyone complained about being called a racist because some Reps were ignorant. It's again just doing the same behavior that folks complained about. Turn the other cheek at some point.

If all you do is look for things you don't like, that's all you'll find and it will cloud your world view.

schwab, morality is an illusion if there is no higher power. I can go into much more detail if you'd like.  ;)
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on November 13, 2019, 09:40:47 AM
Quote
Just the extremes of the far left are pushing this?

Why are you changing the topic from child abuse to the equality act?

And then trying to characterize supporters of the former, to the latter?


That is a disingenuous and unintelligent argument that you are making.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on November 13, 2019, 09:43:30 AM
Quote
Just the extremes of the far left are pushing this?

Why are you changing the topic from child abuse to the equality act?

And then trying to characterize supporters of the former, to the latter?


That is a disingenuous and unintelligent argument that you are making.

Isn't it child abuse to force your child to be a different gender? Wouldn't the equality act protect folks who want to force this issue (you can choose your gender)?
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Gregmal on November 13, 2019, 09:49:01 AM
I dont see how there is anything to argue. Biology very clearly states that there is no debating gender. So its either a mental illness of the parent who is abusing the child in order to promote something their own sickness has determined is necessary, or, if it is the individual, a mental illness that leads them to conclude their mind trumps their matter.... pretty straight forward. Cant argue with the facts.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on November 13, 2019, 10:01:15 AM
Girl = XX Chromosomes
Boy = XY Chromosomes

It's simple, straightforward and the biology can't ever be changed.

However, some folks suffer from Gender Dysphoria which is a real psychiatric condition which puts children at
a very elevated suicide rate.

Gender Dysphoria = Conflict between a persons PHYSICAL gender and that gender which he/she IDENTIFIES with.

Any parent should be extremely concerned when children are "pushed" into this conflict area.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Cigarbutt on November 13, 2019, 10:18:13 AM
^Some time ago, I was brought to question the notion of certainty when dealing with this issue.
Girls who are born with the congenital adrenal hyperplasia genetic makeup will manifest male attributes during development and "gender assignment" is then a real issue, especially if the disease is not recognized or treated before the first 18 to 36 months.
Maybe helpful to think of the possibility that it's about your child.
I would say this is not a left or right thing to do.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: cubsfan on November 13, 2019, 10:31:50 AM
Important factor for parents -

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/142/4/e20174218

Attempted suicide rate:

 Female to male adolescents reported the highest rate of attempted suicide (50.8%),

 Male to female adolescents (29.9%)

You do not want your children involved in this mess.





Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Gregmal on November 13, 2019, 10:36:09 AM
Important factor for parents -

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/142/4/e20174218

Attempted suicide rate:

 Female to male adolescents reported the highest rate of attempted suicide (50.8%),

 Male to female adolescents (29.9%)

You do not want your children involved in this mess.

People like LC apparently do. Unless of course, its just their "luxury beliefs" talking...
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on November 13, 2019, 10:43:11 AM
Anyone else find it ironic that ABC will promote "drag kid" but kill the Epstein story?
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on November 13, 2019, 10:43:45 AM

Last time I checked, the GOP has yet to hold a Neo Nazi rally. I have yet to see republican teachers invite Neo Nazi speakers to elementary schools so they can tell children about the wonders of the Third Reich.

I think it's quite natural to have extreme people show up to public rallies. Neither party can prevent that. But when prominent figures of either party, whether that be candidates, talk show hosts, etc. go out of there way to host such groups there is a line that is crossed.

Do you think it's unfair to say that leftists whether individuals or talking heads are far more vocal (in general) when it comes to pushing an agenda? The left can't leave people alone. They HAVE to get everyone on board with their views.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rep-steve-king-slammed-by-fellow-gop-colleagues-for-white-supremacist-remark
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-11-12/stephen-miller-white-house-racist-immigration-emails

At one point, someone said that we shouldn't always refer to everything being Rep or Dem's faults. Cubsfan and Gregmal immediately agreed and then everyone went back to always blaming "The Left" or "Dems". Stahleyp writes that there are no morals if you are not a god-fearing man. That seems a bit extreme of an assumption. I can only recall one post by you about FDX and otherwise you have been pushing your political views with regularity. Yet you are complaining about others doing what you do?

It seems like folks are trying to blame any individual Dem-leaning person for every action by every person that might lean that direction. Pre-Trump, everyone complained about being called a racist because some Reps were ignorant. It's again just doing the same behavior that folks complained about. Turn the other cheek at some point. With politics especially, we are always apt to blame people today for actions by people who are now dead. It makes no sense yet we all do it.

If all you do is look for things you don't like, that's all you'll find and it will cloud your world view.

You're right, I probably do contribute to the political forum more than I do to the investing side of things. One, it's easier. I'm not going to pretend I am some savvy investor and clog up the investment threads with low quality content or blatantly obvious extrapolations. I contribute where I can. I enjoy reading about investing and learning from what people on here have to say. What's wrong with that?

Way to gloss over the fact that I called out both Dems and Republicans. I said that those extremes exist in both parties and shouldn't be used to generalize either side. The main "agenda" I push on here politically is to leave people alone. But you can't deny that the left is far more vocal when it comes to pushing social changes in society. Do you not agree that children should be left alone and not concerned with things they can't even understand? Apparently that's complaining. Not everything in life is black and white. LC said this. But that also doesn't mean everything is a gray area.

@LC: I'm not making it about the equality act. I think that's a great thing. I'm more concerned with the agenda pushing on children. I'm sure most people on both sides of the aisle could see this as a concern. I merely discussed the town hall or conference for LGBTQ organized by the Democratic party as an example of social agendas being pushed by a political body. You can't deny that there is a link between the LGBTQ movement and the child abuse. Although it's clearly an extreme manifestation of the movement.

As I said before, I don't care what opinion grown adults have on anything LGBTQ related. People should be able to do what they want and live how they want. All I'm saying is leave the kids out of it. Children shouldn't be used to "normalize" something. 
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on November 13, 2019, 10:55:43 AM
I don't find that equality act as a big deal overall but there are some concerns.

I have a daughter and I don't want her facing transgender athletes in sporting competition when she's older. How does this empower women? What if she misses out on a scholarship?

I don't want teachers teaching our kids about "gender identity."

What if pedophilia is ever considered a "sexual orientation?" Would those folks be able to teach - and not be fired for it? Doesn't the equality act protect against discrimination of sexual orientation?

Far fetched? I thought so too but it seems like its gaining steam:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tedx-pedophilia-sexual-orientation/

https://www.psychcongress.com/article/apa-correct-error-dsm-5-terminology-regarding-pedophilic-disorder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOb493ued-g
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Gregmal on November 14, 2019, 07:27:33 AM
https://nypost.com/2019/11/14/ex-nbc-correspondent-bruce-hensel-arrested-for-asking-9-year-old-for-sexual-photos/

Another member of the MSM, and liberal hero, caught doing what they do best!
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on November 14, 2019, 07:58:18 AM
Ah, a story as old as time: black-and-white thinking has atrophied the brain. You see it with the strongly religious, the political extremists, and of course the racists, homophobics, etc. This time isn't different.

You are correct.  I'm sorry.  I fully support your right to burn your son with cigarettes and beat him to death if he refuses to wear a dress.  My prior thinking was just anti-LBTQQIABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP to the max.

Your prior link between "the left" and these child abusers is spurious and, as I already mentioned, insulting.

Paul's description of "black and white thinking describes the left perfectly" is also spurious. Which is more ironic than insulting in his case.

It's tribal thinking, but ultimately an unsatisfying and inaccurate perspective, and frankly boring.

Quote
LC you're wrong. The only group of people pushing this kind of stuff are leftists.
And the group pushing a racist, neo-nazi agenda are right-wing extremists. But I don't claim "the right" are neo-nazis - and I would vehemently disagree with anyone who does.

Most conservatives would never identify with a bunch of racists in Charlotsville, but some folks here have no problem identifying liberals with these child abusers, as RK just did.

Just another case of the fundamental attribution error.

The right is pushing religion on children and brainwashing them which is child abuse as well, but that's another discussion.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on November 14, 2019, 08:08:58 AM
Let's not forget about liberal hero and icon Harvey Milk who (allegedly) had a penchant for young boys.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on November 14, 2019, 09:02:47 AM
Ah, a story as old as time: black-and-white thinking has atrophied the brain. You see it with the strongly religious, the political extremists, and of course the racists, homophobics, etc. This time isn't different.

You are correct.  I'm sorry.  I fully support your right to burn your son with cigarettes and beat him to death if he refuses to wear a dress.  My prior thinking was just anti-LBTQQIABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP to the max.

Your prior link between "the left" and these child abusers is spurious and, as I already mentioned, insulting.

Paul's description of "black and white thinking describes the left perfectly" is also spurious. Which is more ironic than insulting in his case.

It's tribal thinking, but ultimately an unsatisfying and inaccurate perspective, and frankly boring.

Quote
LC you're wrong. The only group of people pushing this kind of stuff are leftists.
And the group pushing a racist, neo-nazi agenda are right-wing extremists. But I don't claim "the right" are neo-nazis - and I would vehemently disagree with anyone who does.

Most conservatives would never identify with a bunch of racists in Charlotsville, but some folks here have no problem identifying liberals with these child abusers, as RK just did.

Just another case of the fundamental attribution error.

The right is pushing religion on children and brainwashing them which is child abuse as well, but that's another discussion.

Plenty of religious people on both sides of the aisle. Forcing your child to have a sex change =/= forcing them to recite Bible verses.... 59% of millennials are choosing to not follow religion (specifically Christianity) once they are adults. That statistic alone should tell you there is very little "brainwashing" going on.


Such Brainwashing.....

- Honor thy father and thy mother.
- Thou shalt not kill.
- Thou shalt not commit adultery.
- Thou shalt not steal
- Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
- Thou shalt not covet

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Cigarbutt on November 14, 2019, 09:23:11 AM
One has to wonder if sexual "deviance" (whatever the definition, from infidelity to extreme) is more prevalent in 'conservative' vs 'liberal' groups. This is a hard question to assess as one would need to rely on self-reports. Some work shows that the prevalence is comparable, which makes common sense to me, although the way to express this phenomenon may vary.
It reminds me of some work I came across a while back when the AIDS epidemic made front-page news. Many people worried about the risk of transfusions and asked for transfusions coming from their tribe (family members and close friends). Some blood banks looked into the matter. The new requests would have required additional resources but the new option was not implemented after some work showed that the risk of disease being transmitted by members of the tribe would, in fact, have been higher than a transfusion from the general population..
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Gregmal on November 14, 2019, 09:51:24 AM
The reason it’s prevalent amongst liberals is because they’re all about hedonism at their core. Say what you will about conservatives, but the framework of values is there. Same with religion. Which is not to say you don’t have deviants; of course you do. But look at where things have gone since the explosion of liberal values has become mainstream in the 60s...

Erosion of family values, not to mention the structure of the traditional family. Materialism, which also facilitated the need for both parents to work. More time at the office and less with family also correlated to higher infidelity rates. Acceptance of deviant sexual behavior stemming from mental disorders as merely “acceptance of everyone”-LOL... Redefining marriage, legalizing drugs and prostitution...etc. it all goes hand in hand. I wouldn’t be surprised if in a decade or two you see them trying to make it OK to have sex with kids...
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on November 14, 2019, 10:12:58 AM
The reason it’s prevalent amongst liberals is because they’re all about hedonism at their core. Say what you will about conservatives, but the framework of values is there. Same with religion. Which is not to say you don’t have deviants; of course you do. But look at where things have gone since the explosion of liberal values has become mainstream in the 60s...

Erosion of family values, not to mention the structure of the traditional family. Materialism, which also facilitated the need for both parents to work. More time at the office and less with family also correlated to higher infidelity rates. Acceptance of deviant sexual behavior stemming from mental disorders as merely “acceptance of everyone”-LOL... Redefining marriage, legalizing drugs and prostitution...etc. it all goes hand in hand. I wouldn’t be surprised if in a decade or two you see them trying to make it OK to have sex with kids...

@cigarbutt - I'd imagine it to be similar but as you said self-reporting is hardly a reliable mechanism. Much like cases of male sexual assault.

Even Neitzsche recognized the need for religion or at least the values it instills/roots in a society. Is nihilism ever a good thing? 

https://bigthink.com/scotty-hendricks/what-nietzsche-really-meant-by-god-is-dead
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Spekulatius on November 14, 2019, 12:51:08 PM
One of my fu-fu acquaintances in CA tried to make her cat vegetarian. Now that is cruel.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Gregmal on November 14, 2019, 01:38:38 PM
https://nypost.com/2019/11/14/texas-state-rep-poncho-nevarez-admits-to-dropping-envelope-of-coke-at-airport/

Everywhere you turn! Dont even get me started on the "addiction" excuse that has become common for this sort of behavior the last decade or so.

Its not like he's dealing with opioids for pain relief, or some dick stiffener pills or whatever. Coke is pretty straight forward in terms of its uses. None are "medical"...Just another heathen with no discipline or self control.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: bearprowler6 on November 14, 2019, 01:58:05 PM
https://nypost.com/2019/11/14/texas-state-rep-poncho-nevarez-admits-to-dropping-envelope-of-coke-at-airport/

Everywhere you turn! Dont even get me started on the "addiction" excuse that has become common for this sort of behavior the last decade or so.

Its not like he's dealing with opioids for pain relief, or some dick stiffener pills or whatever. Coke is pretty straight forward in terms of its uses. None are "medical"...Just another heathen with no discipline or self control.

Please do..."educate" us with your views on the "addiction" excuse....

I have my popcorn....it should make for entertaining reading
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Gregmal on November 14, 2019, 02:06:37 PM
There's no views. Its just what used to be called(back in the days of responsibility) a lack of discipline and self control. I mean, you have to go out of your way to end up putting cocaine in your body.... and even more out of your way to do it so much that you feel dependent upon it...

Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on November 14, 2019, 02:30:56 PM
One of my fu-fu acquaintances in CA tried to make her cat vegetarian. Now that is cruel.

 ;D Haha wow, people are amazing.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: bearprowler6 on November 14, 2019, 03:06:11 PM
There's no views. Its just what used to be called(back in the days of responsibility) a lack of discipline and self control. I mean, you have to go out of your way to end up putting cocaine in your body.... and even more out of your way to do it so much that you feel dependent upon it...

Gregmal....no disrespect intended....the issue is quite a bit more complicated than a "lack of discipline and self control".
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Castanza on November 14, 2019, 03:26:52 PM
There's no views. Its just what used to be called(back in the days of responsibility) a lack of discipline and self control. I mean, you have to go out of your way to end up putting cocaine in your body.... and even more out of your way to do it so much that you feel dependent upon it...

Gregmal....no disrespect intended....the issue is quite a bit more complicated than a "lack of discipline and self control".

True and not true. Much of addiction is hereditary and biological. But there is nothing biological that makes a person seek out specific outlets. Can you be biologically predisposed to seek out gambling? Seems unlikely. Maybe you have a “risk taking personality.” Gambling would be one outlet to fulfill that urge. Greg isn’t wrong but I wouldn’t say he’s right either. It’s define a mix.

I have a brother in-law who according to him has a very “addictive “ personality. Whenever he does something he becomes obsessed with it. He recognizes this in himself and as a result won’t allow himself to try alcohol or the like.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: Gregmal on November 14, 2019, 03:56:25 PM
I'd agree with Castanza. I lazily addressed what I say trying to say and was not entirely correct in communicating what I wished to.

There are "addictions" that are real and facilitated by life. These are things out of the control of people; at least once they become known as a problem. There are everyday actions you dont think twice of when doing, and then find yourself a slave to them. A doctor writes a script because you have pain and this is what the professional you rely on tells you will fix it. You go to the store and legally buy cigarettes or a bottle of whisky. OK...but we're talking something entirely different with cocaine. Its not legal anywhere, and you have to jump through hoops, especially when you are at the white collar levels like a congressman is, to get it. You have to call somebody you KNOW to be a lowlife. You have to drive somewhere you KNOW is a shitbag neighborhood. Even the act of consuming it, snorting it, like a degenerate. You have to cross a whole lot of character defining lines in order to become a coke addict, vs, many of the other substances which are readily available and socially acceptable.

But with this congressional jerk off, I dont think its any of the above. He just got caught. If he wasn't caught, you'd see him on TV tomorrow or next week talking about impeaching Trump; and crying about Trump administration conduct... but he did get caught, so this is his way of slanting it and saying he s neither responsible for his action, but in fact, a victim. Fuck this loser.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: bearprowler6 on November 14, 2019, 05:00:39 PM
I'd agree with Castanza. I lazily addressed what I say trying to say and was not entirely correct in communicating what I wished to.

There are "addictions" that are real and facilitated by life. These are things out of the control of people; at least once they become known as a problem. There are everyday actions you dont think twice of when doing, and then find yourself a slave to them. A doctor writes a script because you have pain and this is what the professional you rely on tells you will fix it. You go to the store and legally buy cigarettes or a bottle of whisky. OK...but we're talking something entirely different with cocaine. Its not legal anywhere, and you have to jump through hoops, especially when you are at the white collar levels like a congressman is, to get it. You have to call somebody you KNOW to be a lowlife. You have to drive somewhere you KNOW is a shitbag neighborhood. Even the act of consuming it, snorting it, like a degenerate. You have to cross a whole lot of character defining lines in order to become a coke addict, vs, many of the other substances which are readily available and socially acceptable.

But with this congressional jerk off, I dont think its any of the above. He just got caught. If he wasn't caught, you'd see him on TV tomorrow or next week talking about impeaching Trump; and crying about Trump administration conduct... but he did get caught, so this is his way of slanting it and saying he s neither responsible for his action, but in fact, a victim. Fuck this loser.

I agree the Congressman is caught with the cocaine and should suffer the fullest of penalties. This however has nothing to do with any comments he makes on the President and whether or not he supports the President's impeachment. These are two entirely different matters and should not be conflated.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on November 15, 2019, 05:58:14 AM
There's no views. Its just what used to be called(back in the days of responsibility) a lack of discipline and self control. I mean, you have to go out of your way to end up putting cocaine in your body.... and even more out of your way to do it so much that you feel dependent upon it...

Gregmal....no disrespect intended....the issue is quite a bit more complicated than a "lack of discipline and self control".



Yeah, I woke up this morning to find out that cocaine had broken into my house and was trying to get up my nose.  I was able to dodge it right before it jumped in, then I saw his friend heroin-filled-needle try to jab me but I was able to get to my glock and take him out.   I'm just so lucky I could be an addict right now.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: LC on November 15, 2019, 11:38:09 AM
The right is pushing religion on children and brainwashing them which is child abuse as well, but that's another discussion.
True but the item here is scope. Religious indoctrination of children is widespread. The example you gave of child abuse is not a widespread problem (thankfully)
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on November 18, 2019, 06:23:52 AM
The right is pushing religion on children and brainwashing them which is child abuse as well, but that's another discussion.
True but the item here is scope. Religious indoctrination of children is widespread. The example you gave of child abuse is not a widespread problem (thankfully)

You do have a good point there.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on November 19, 2019, 08:12:58 AM
The right is pushing religion on children and brainwashing them which is child abuse as well, but that's another discussion.
True but the item here is scope. Religious indoctrination of children is widespread. The example you gave of child abuse is not a widespread problem (thankfully)

You do have a good point there.

Hopefully you guys agree to not indoctrinate  your kids with the Judeo-Christian "corrupted" form of morality either. You're more influenced by it than you may realize. ;)
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: rkbabang on November 19, 2019, 09:37:48 AM
The right is pushing religion on children and brainwashing them which is child abuse as well, but that's another discussion.
True but the item here is scope. Religious indoctrination of children is widespread. The example you gave of child abuse is not a widespread problem (thankfully)

You do have a good point there.

Hopefully you guys agree to not indoctrinate  your kids with the Judeo-Christian "corrupted" form of morality either. You're more influenced by it than you may realize. ;)

I was certainly influenced by the same Zoroastrian moral code that influenced Judaism which then later influenced Christianity.  These things are passed down to us through the culture.   That doesn't mean that your god exists.
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on November 19, 2019, 01:50:47 PM
The right is pushing religion on children and brainwashing them which is child abuse as well, but that's another discussion.
True but the item here is scope. Religious indoctrination of children is widespread. The example you gave of child abuse is not a widespread problem (thankfully)

You do have a good point there.

Hopefully you guys agree to not indoctrinate  your kids with the Judeo-Christian "corrupted" form of morality either. You're more influenced by it than you may realize. ;)

I was certainly influenced by the same Zoroastrian moral code that influenced Judaism which then later influenced Christianity.  These things are passed down to us through the culture.   That doesn't mean that your god exists.

Oh, Jesus most certainly existed. Almost all scholars agree with that. The real question was if the Resurrection occurred. ;)

But, if God exists and He is at least somewhat responsible for our conscience, it makes sense that people throughout time would have discovered that. We'll call it the Moral Law. 

As the stone age book says:

"Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them."
Title: Re: The Bitter Hostility of the Left
Post by: stahleyp on December 15, 2019, 02:26:23 PM
https://www.wilx.com/content/news/Student-says-teacher-pulls-off-her-Women-For-Trump-pin-565990631.html

Tolerance at its best.