Author Topic: The End of DACA  (Read 17637 times)

Parsad

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The End of DACA
« on: September 04, 2017, 01:49:48 AM »
I understand the problems with illegal immigration in the U.S. and these issues/flaws have festered through multiple presidential terms, but I have to say that the current planned termination of DACA with no "American" solution for these young people is disheartening.  I don't recognize my neighbors to the south anymore.  They were children when they came here...why are they paying for their parent's sins.  Can Trump imagine his children or grand-children paying for his sins?  Cheers!
No man is a failure who has friends!


Cigarbutt

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2017, 05:06:08 AM »
Very difficult question.

Definition of the American Dream: The belief that everyone in the US has the chance to be successful and happy if they work hard.

There's sometimes a tortuous route between being "everyone" and "citizen".

Visiting Ellis Island a few years back, and Angel Island (San Francisco) recently, I realize that there may be a price to pay to reach the Promised Land.

But what price?

Of course, the American Dream is no longer what it used to be.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/upshot/the-transformation-of-the-american-dream.html

Packer16

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2017, 07:09:34 AM »
I really have to ask how much of this is due to the different systems of immigration.  The US has a family based system (which I think is causing the issues & the incentives to abuse) versus the economic system of the rest of the world.  What is the system in Canada?  Can any family member become a citizen regardless if they can economically support themselves?  I think all folks are asking for is an economic based system to prevent the abuse, not an unreasonable request.  I think this is more of a move to get Congress to pass something & work together to get it done which is the way it should have been done originally.  Hopefully between this & hurricane aid, Congress can get something done on a bi-partisan basis.

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valcont

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2017, 08:27:23 AM »
A fake issue courtesy mainstream media and Democrat's echo chambers. Its amazing how the Democrats/media tie some issues (like illegal immigration) to empathy/kindness and want the government's action when they can't win on the legal basis. But some like abortion has to be left alone to choice.

There are two elements to DACA. One is the issue of these children(although the oldest one is 36 yr old, another inconvenient fact ignored) who were brought here and the other is the illegal act committed by their parents/guardian. If I rob a bank to feed my child , that doesn't mean that both of us should get reprieve. The Republican's solution is fair. Give the children the legal status but make sure that the illegal act is not encouraged. Democrats/Media aided by the cheap labor capitalists only wants to focus on the former. And anyone who wants to support both is termed as racist/cruel/small minded. No wonder Trump won. Both parties are hypocritical in their approach but Trump stands out. He is very clear on these issues and takes a firm stand. I am no fan of Trump but I do think his supporters must be very happy that they voted for someone who is actually delivering on the promises.


longinvestor

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2017, 08:45:37 AM »
If beating around the bush is a waste of time, just Google The browning of America, and how this has loomed larger and larger for over three decades. And the reaction less and less subdued. What we are witnessing both in EU and NA is the visceral response to the reality that even electoral outcomes stand to change, not just who picks our tomatoes, cuts the grass or writes code. The change is permanent, immigration laws will adapt to the reality.

abyli

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2017, 10:10:14 AM »
I understand the problems with illegal immigration in the U.S. and these issues/flaws have festered through multiple presidential terms, but I have to say that the current planned termination of DACA with no "American" solution for these young people is disheartening.  I don't recognize my neighbors to the south anymore.  They were children when they came here...why are they paying for their parent's sins.  Can Trump imagine his children or grand-children paying for his sins?  Cheers!

Is that fair to legal immigrants who have done everything right and paying tax every single year and still patiently waiting for green cards after many many years?

Gregmal

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2017, 10:16:39 AM »
A fake issue courtesy mainstream media and Democrat's echo chambers. Its amazing how the Democrats/media tie some issues (like illegal immigration) to empathy/kindness and want the government's action when they can't win on the legal basis. But some like abortion has to be left alone to choice.

There are two elements to DACA. One is the issue of these children(although the oldest one is 36 yr old, another inconvenient fact ignored) who were brought here and the other is the illegal act committed by their parents/guardian. If I rob a bank to feed my child , that doesn't mean that both of us should get reprieve. The Republican's solution is fair. Give the children the legal status but make sure that the illegal act is not encouraged. Democrats/Media aided by the cheap labor capitalists only wants to focus on the former. And anyone who wants to support both is termed as racist/cruel/small minded. No wonder Trump won. Both parties are hypocritical in their approach but Trump stands out. He is very clear on these issues and takes a firm stand. I am no fan of Trump but I do think his supporters must be very happy that they voted for someone who is actually delivering on the promises.

The better metaphor is, if you rob a bank and stuff the proceeds in a trust set up for your kids, why should the kids have to give the money back and pay for their parents sins? The truth is, it was never theirs to begin with. Same goes for citizenship. Just because they've been here, doesn't mean they should have been and doesn't mean that at some point the chickens don't come home to roost. Sorry.

Immigration is so head scratching in regards to how not everybody is on the same page. It's black and white. There is an outlined process. It amazes me how many people sympathize with crooks and law breakers and excuse their behaviors when there is a very easy and simply path to do it the right way.

DTEJD1997

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2017, 11:13:03 AM »
I understand the problems with illegal immigration in the U.S. and these issues/flaws have festered through multiple presidential terms, but I have to say that the current planned termination of DACA with no "American" solution for these young people is disheartening.  I don't recognize my neighbors to the south anymore.  They were children when they came here...why are they paying for their parent's sins.  Can Trump imagine his children or grand-children paying for his sins?  Cheers!

Is that fair to legal immigrants who have done everything right and paying tax every single year and still patiently waiting for green cards after many many years?

My uncle married a wonderful women from the Philippines.  They had known each other for many years.  It took them a while to get married...filling out TONS of forms & paperwork...lot of government interviews...a lot of hassle, A LOT OF MONEY.  Then it took even longer and even more money for them to legally bring her children over to the USA.  The children were separated from their mother for over a year!

HOWEVER, they did everything legally, "by the book".  It took years and TENS of thousands of dollars.  This was/is a VERY substantial amount of money for my uncle.

What fools they were!  Just should have gone to Mexico or Canada and come across the border.

Can my uncle and his family get a refund?  What about others? 

Why are there two sets of laws in the USA?

Cigarbutt

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2017, 04:57:14 PM »
"He is very clear on these issues and takes a firm stand. I am no fan of Trump but I do think his supporters must be very happy that they voted for someone who is actually delivering on the promises."

Will stick to the issue (immigration) especially with the next post coming and I don't know the answer to this specific question but, respectfully, would like to add the following as I follow the unique diplomacy being deployed to Southeast Asia.

With DACA, I find that President Trump has shown unusual caution.
When discussing this issue before on several different occasions, he has said, in parallel to the Republican program statements, sympathetic remarks in regards to the DACA people: "good students", "great people", "The DACA situation is a very difficult thing for me as I love these kids, I love kids, I have kids and grand kids". Atypically, he even seemed to have difficulty reaching a decision on the specific stand to take.

To show political sensitivity for such a hard question is actually refreshing.

I have always been a contrarian.

Cigarbutt

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2017, 05:36:48 PM »
Packer16,

"What is the system in Canada?"

You talkin' to me?

It is an honor. I was hoping for somebody else to take the helm but I can act as the Canadian member de service.
Disclosure: did some basic research to bridge the gaps but incomplete and possibly unsatisfactory info.

Yes, in Canada, emphasis is given to economic criteria. In general 60-70% come through the economic sub-program, 20-25% through the family program and about 10% because of humanitarian reasons. "Talented" immigrants can be admitted to the country without having a job offer.

Canada, in a way, perhaps more so than the US, is a land of immigrants. Aren't we all immigrants?

According to international independent agencies, Canada has "attractive" policies for workers and their families, especially for "highly skilled" migrants.

Find a link below which is relatively well balanced but may be a bit too upbeat as there are some nagging issues that tend to attract media attention intermittently.

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/01/26/511625609/for-a-stark-contrast-to-u-s-immigration-policy-try-canada

Personal opinion (not worth very much):
-Canada seems to have done a better job with immigration policies but the difference may be less than stated.
-A difference is that policies have been evolving and compromises have been reached.
-The major difference is the problem of illegal immigrants which is minuscule compared to the US.

Part of me would like to say that the relative absence of an illegal immigrant problem in Canada is due to moral superiority or a more noble gene pool but humility forces me to say that the essential reason is geographic (yeah that wall prone area).

In closing, a problem that is deteriorating with no end in sight should perhaps be given due consideration, even in political circles (comment not related to the finger on the red button escalation).

BTW, shalab is considering military annexation of Canada, so after I respond to his last posts on a related topic, I may go quiet for a while.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 05:45:21 PM by Cigarbutt »