Author Topic: The End of DACA  (Read 14765 times)

valcont

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 07:57:57 PM »
"He is very clear on these issues and takes a firm stand. I am no fan of Trump but I do think his supporters must be very happy that they voted for someone who is actually delivering on the promises."

Will stick to the issue (immigration) especially with the next post coming and I don't know the answer to this specific question but, respectfully, would like to add the following as I follow the unique diplomacy being deployed to Southeast Asia.

Fair enough, that comment may be over the top but as someone who likes Trump's immigration and foreign policy , I don't quite agree with you on N Korea.

Common sense tells me that if a certain policy hasn't worked for years, it will not work in the future. Obama (and to a certain extent Bush) tried appeasement and failed miserably. The policy of appeasement gave Kim Jong the missiles that can reach the mainland. Matter of time before he can fit the nukes on it and extract even bigger concessions. He needs to be stopped.

I believe that China can solve this problem but its not an honest broker. North Korea can be economically  crippled should China (or handful of Chinese companies that do business with it) refuse to play ball. But China's  zero sum strategic imperative combined with the historical paranoia of its neighbors overrides any urgency to contain a crackpot who goes around threatening annihilation of his opponents. The only way to bring both of them on the table is to promise the consequences that will far surpass any contingencies they may have planned. That's the Trump card , no pun.

Trump's bluster seems threatening to a rational person but there is a method to his madness. He is psychologically scoping out his opponents. Act rationally and he'll defuse but if you engage he'll take you to the brink. Not a good place to be in when he is carrying the biggest stick.



Value^2

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 10:02:05 PM »
Ending DACA is beginning of the MAGA!

Viva La Trump!!!  ;D ;D ;D

tooskinneejs

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2017, 07:09:39 AM »
If a dad and his son sneak into a soccer game and get caught, should only the dad be forced to leave the game?

If a father and his son break into my house and the father is arrested, do I have to raise his son?

I understand and empathize with the children whose parents illegally brought them to the U.S., but the situation that the children find themselves in is their parents' fault, not mine.

jeffmori7

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2017, 12:28:14 PM »

MikeTheCannon

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2017, 04:50:39 PM »
I am absolutely dumbfounded by the level of cruelty and callousness shown on this topic. These kids have done nothing wrong. They are well integrated and productive members of society. Where's the justice in kicking them out? And what's the benefit? This all seems like a knee jerk reaction that lacks any basis in justice, fairness, or compassion.

Gregmal

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2017, 04:55:45 PM »
I am absolutely dumbfounded by the level of cruelty and callousness shown on this topic. These kids have done nothing wrong. They are well integrated and productive members of society. Where's the justice in kicking them out? And what's the benefit? This all seems like a knee jerk reaction that lacks any basis in justice, fairness, or compassion.

You kick them out, out of fairness to those who have done the whole immigration thing the right way, and out of respect for, idk, the law??? So right there is fairness and justice. Heck its getting to a point where I firmly believe if it were up to most we'd just abolish the Constitution and throw out any laws. It's unreal.

Say I take my family, and sneak into a baseball game. Screw everyone else who paid for their ticket. Mine are free. x5 tickets. But hey, I'm not bothering anyone, I'm spending at the concessions, and my kids are innocent so why is there anything wrong. The whole thing is OK? Right...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 05:00:50 PM by Gregmal »

MikeTheCannon

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2017, 05:15:12 PM »
I am absolutely dumbfounded by the level of cruelty and callousness shown on this topic. These kids have done nothing wrong. They are well integrated and productive members of society. Where's the justice in kicking them out? And what's the benefit? This all seems like a knee jerk reaction that lacks any basis in justice, fairness, or compassion.

You kick them out, out of fairness to those who have done the whole immigration thing the right way, and out of respect for, idk, the law??? So right there is fairness and justice. Heck its getting to a point where I firmly believe if it were up to most we'd just abolish the Constitution and throw out any laws. It's unreal.

Laws are tools used to arrive at justice. They aren't justice in and of themselves. The codification of an unjust action doesn't spontaneous make it just. America has a dark history of confusing the two, so let's not confuse the two.

And no doubt those immigrating the legal way might be upset but using proportional and measured responses is how a civil society conducts itself. Destroying the livelihoods of 800,000 innocent people to ensure that those legally immigrating aren't annoyed seems absolutely insane.

tede02

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2017, 06:30:01 PM »
Some of the comments here are so callous.  They scream, “This doesn’t impact me or anyone I know so I don’t care.”  Reminds me of the guy in my office who wants to attack North Korea.  He’s all for it until I ask how much he’s personally willing to contribute or if he’d gladly volunteer to put his son or daughter in harms way.  Equating robbing a bank or sneaking into a sports venue to someone coming to the US for a better life is absurd.  If this is all about law and order, many must still be angered by those who broke laws escaping Europe during WWII, or those escaping the Middle East and North Africa today. 

Now that I’ve surely stirred up some hate, I must say this issue is being oversold by the left and right.  The left wants to create the narrative that ICE will be breaking down doors and deporting model “citizens” in droves.  The right wants to sell the idea that these “criminals” will face justice.  It’s just not going to happen.  The money, man power and public sentiment are not there for this to happen.  Trump said as much today, something to the effect of it won’t be a law enforcement priority.  Although Trump's move was purely political, I’m somewhat optimistic that this policy change will force congress’s hand to finally pass some type of bi-partisan immigration reform. 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 07:00:51 PM by tede02 »

vox

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2017, 06:39:18 PM »
The idea that citizenship is analogous to attending a sports game is absurd. Sports games last a few hours, then you go home. The problem with deporting DACA recipients is that most know of no home other than the United States. Sports games are for entertainment, attending them is a completely optional leisure activity. Many DACA recipients came to the United States to flee violence and persecution, their lives were at stake. Commenters are bringing up this idea that attendees should have 'bought seats' for this sports game. The vast majority of people who are United States citizens are only so because they were born in the U.S. or their parents are U.S. citizens. People do not choose where and to whom they are born, yet some commenters are confusing winning the geographical lottery for something that is earned or paid for. Every serious analysis suggests that DACA recipients contribute positively to the U.S. economy, as every generation of new immigrants has. Sports games are held in stadiums that have a maximum capacity. The United States has a theoretical maximum population capacity, but the country is obviously nowhere close to reaching that.

Gregmal

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Re: The End of DACA
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2017, 07:20:11 PM »
The idea that citizenship is analogous to attending a sports game is absurd. Sports games last a few hours, then you go home. The problem with deporting DACA recipients is that most know of no home other than the United States. Sports games are for entertainment, attending them is a completely optional leisure activity. Many DACA recipients came to the United States to flee violence and persecution, their lives were at stake. Commenters are bringing up this idea that attendees should have 'bought seats' for this sports game. The vast majority of people who are United States citizens are only so because they were born in the U.S. or their parents are U.S. citizens. People do not choose where and to whom they are born, yet some commenters are confusing winning the geographical lottery for something that is earned or paid for. Every serious analysis suggests that DACA recipients contribute positively to the U.S. economy, as every generation of new immigrants has. Sports games are held in stadiums that have a maximum capacity. The United States has a theoretical maximum population capacity, but the country is obviously nowhere close to reaching that.

It also has to do with the simple premise of following and enforcing the laws of the land. As someone previously, and incorrectly asserted, no you don't send them back to make people who did it the right way happy, you do it because if you create a system where you reward breaking the law, no one will follow it.

As a few members here have already stated, the people who followed the law spend tons of time and money doing so. So excusing that because we "feel bad" or whatever, is not only insulting to those folks, but sends a horrid sign to anyone else looking to enter. Who in their right mind would spend years of time doing it the right way and tens of thousands of dollars as well, when you can just run across and then bank on some pity card or sob story life jacket being thrown your way? Shit, the next leg of this whole thing will be, "we can't deport the innocent kids, but we also shouldnt deport their parents because then, OMG, they'll be kids without parents"... Theres no end to it. If you don't enter the stadium with a valid ticket, you don't deserve a seat. Save your money, pay for your ticket, and then you will be welcomed with open arms and enjoy all the benefits and perks of those who are here legally.