Author Topic: The Terrible Inadequacy of US Election Law-Market Implications  (Read 2389 times)

Gregmal

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Re: The Terrible Inadequacy of US Election Law-Market Implications
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2020, 05:09:41 PM »
I just want to clarify, I was not calling you or anyone else an idiot. I was trying to convey that getting wrapped up in hysteria/fear driven narratives can propel average or even highly capable people into the same categories as idiots on a results oriented basis.

As for role models for our kids, well I guess I do have something in common ideologically with the BLM folks. The way they look at all cops, is the way I look at all politicians. Worthless scum. And I will, if the time ever comes, convey to my kids that there are certainly more fulfilling and less scumbag leech ways to make a living. Doesnt matter who is in office. I dont think anyone should aspire to be like these people. Do we really think Biden is a role model? He hides in his basement, gets cosmetic surgery to look more "likable", hires people to tell him what to say, changes course(like with voting fraud and many other things) on a dime depending upon where the wind is blowing, and makes a living off you, me, and the rest of taxpaying citizens....the number one thing I hope to instill in my kids is self worth and confidence. Dont be a spineless coward who relies on others to feel valuable...the antithesis of a politician.


LearningMachine

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Re: The Terrible Inadequacy of US Election Law-Market Implications
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2020, 05:20:42 PM »
I just want to clarify, I was not calling you or anyone else an idiot. I was trying to convey that getting wrapped up in hysteria/fear driven narratives can propel average or even highly capable people into the same categories as idiots on a results oriented basis.

As for role models for our kids, well I guess I do have something in common ideologically with the BLM folks. The way they look at all cops, is the way I look at all politicians. Worthless scum. And I will, if the time ever comes, convey to my kids that there are certainly more fulfilling and less scumbag leech ways to make a living. Doesnt matter who is in office. I dont think anyone should aspire to be like these people. Do we really think Biden is a role model? He hides in his basement, gets cosmetic surgery to look more "likable", hires people to tell him what to say, changes course(like with voting fraud and many other things) on a dime depending upon where the wind is blowing, and makes a living off you, me, and the rest of taxpaying citizens....the number one thing I hope to instill in my kids is self worth and confidence. Dont be a spineless coward who relies on others to feel valuable...the antithesis of a politician.

Thanks Gregmal for clarifying.

I agree with you that I wouldn't explicitly point out any politician to be a role model to our kids.

That said, our leaders end up becoming defacto role models for the public at large.  So, I think we do have to consider who our leaders are from the perspective of what kind of people we want around us because some of the people around will start acting like our leaders over time.  Sometimes, the influence may not be that strong.  However, because Trump is very vocal and extreme with his offensive language and non-empathetic way of thinking, it does rub off on people. 

At my company, I've been leading folks for a long time, and have come to realize that folks follow what I do, what I say, what I wear, etc.  Our company also puts all leaders through leadership training regularly, which reminds us the same thing, that whether we want it or not, folks get influenced by how leaders talk, think, etc.

Beyond language, role modeling also helps with getting folks to take the right action.  For example, in Canada, Trudeau wore a mask and that influenced more Canadians to follow him as well, helping them contain it better than here.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 05:41:15 PM by LearningMachine »

Rod

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Re: The Terrible Inadequacy of US Election Law-Market Implications
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2020, 03:58:00 AM »
https://nypost.com/2020/09/19/biden-spent-years-warning-of-voter-fraud-now-call-a-myth/

“Should Voters Be Allowed To Register On Election Day? No,” Biden wrote in an op-ed to a now-defunct Wilmington, Del. newspaper in 1977. He even chided President Carter for proposing it.

A “reservation I have and one that is apparently shared by some of the top officials within the Department of Justice is that the president’s proposal could lead to a serious increase in vote fraud,” Biden wrote.

Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, Biden worked closely with now-Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to stiffen penalties for voter fraud.

Thanks Gregmal.  I looked at your source.

(1) It is one thing for someone to work over the years with others on taking steps to prevent/reduce voter fraud, e.g. by supporting laws that have stiff penalties for voter fraud.

(2) It is another thing for a sitting president to say that he doesn't know whether he will honor the results of the election, and that he doesn't know what he will do do if he loses the election and that he is a bad loser.

#1 can help build the legitimacy of our elections and create a stronger democracy, while #2 delegitimizes our elections and creates a risk to our democracy.

What is this nonsense about Trump not honoring the election results?

Where is your anger for Hillary Clinton advising Joe Biden to NOT CONCEDE under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES??

I don’t know what you are referring to but the story I read from Reuters about Clinton was that Biden should not concede on election night due to the large number of provisional/mail in ballots expected to be cast. Why should anyone be angry about that?

cubsfan

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Re: The Terrible Inadequacy of US Election Law-Market Implications
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2020, 09:03:01 AM »
https://nypost.com/2020/09/19/biden-spent-years-warning-of-voter-fraud-now-call-a-myth/

“Should Voters Be Allowed To Register On Election Day? No,” Biden wrote in an op-ed to a now-defunct Wilmington, Del. newspaper in 1977. He even chided President Carter for proposing it.

A “reservation I have and one that is apparently shared by some of the top officials within the Department of Justice is that the president’s proposal could lead to a serious increase in vote fraud,” Biden wrote.

Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, Biden worked closely with now-Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to stiffen penalties for voter fraud.

Thanks Gregmal.  I looked at your source.

(1) It is one thing for someone to work over the years with others on taking steps to prevent/reduce voter fraud, e.g. by supporting laws that have stiff penalties for voter fraud.

(2) It is another thing for a sitting president to say that he doesn't know whether he will honor the results of the election, and that he doesn't know what he will do do if he loses the election and that he is a bad loser.

#1 can help build the legitimacy of our elections and create a stronger democracy, while #2 delegitimizes our elections and creates a risk to our democracy.

What is this nonsense about Trump not honoring the election results?

Where is your anger for Hillary Clinton advising Joe Biden to NOT CONCEDE under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES??

I don’t know what you are referring to but the story I read from Reuters about Clinton was that Biden should not concede on election night due to the large number of provisional/mail in ballots expected to be cast. Why should anyone be angry about that?

Like the quote said "under any circumstances" -for example, a landslide Trump victory - Biden should not concede. No qualifications. No excuses.

wabuffo

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Re: The Terrible Inadequacy of US Election Law-Market Implications
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2020, 09:48:41 AM »
I've seen many good boards ruined because of political discussions slowly polluting investment discussion and then overwhelming it.  It's Gresham's Law for investment boards and none of us can resist it, unfortunately.

The moderator of this board made a wise decision to create a Politics sub-board where folks can get to argue all they want.  And others are free to ignore the sub-board entirely.

I know everyone argues that they're simply trying to understand the "investment implications" of .... "is so-and-so politician X an asshole? (and, oh, how will it affect my stocks?)" - but this thread is a good example of how even the most altruistic of intentions degenerates quickly.

Let's not continue this topic here under the General Investment Discussion and move it to the Politics Board (or start it over under that sub-board).  Y'all have done a great job of maintaining a high quality of investment discussion so far.  I worry that the next few months and beyond are going to be difficult to not have the political posts carrying over across all topics, so let's try hard to resist the impulse to post political threads outside the politics sub-board.

wabuffo
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 09:57:06 AM by wabuffo »

Cigarbutt

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Re: The Terrible Inadequacy of US Election Law-Market Implications
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2020, 04:14:19 PM »
I've seen many good boards ruined because of political discussions slowly polluting investment discussion and then overwhelming it.  It's Gresham's Law for investment boards and none of us can resist it, unfortunately.
...

...even the most altruistic of intentions degenerates quickly.

...the next few months and beyond are going to be difficult to not have the political posts carrying over across all topics, so let's try hard to resist the impulse to post political threads outside the politics sub-board.
wabuffo
Some resistance and then surrender.
You likely know that Gresham's Law's meaning has changed over time (generalizability vs validity), that it may not really 'belong' to Gresham and that conditions are required for the Law to apply. Somebody you like has reflected on that.
https://eh.net/encyclopedia/greshams-law/
Some attribute the bad money driving out the good one to Gresham but there are other candidates such as Oresme (medieval treaty on money) and even Copernicus. However the origin likely comes from Aristophanes in his play The Frogs, which is eerily relevant for this thread and your post:

"This city, it often seems to me treats our best and worthiest citizens the way it does our old silver coins, our new gold ones, as well. This money was never counterfeit — no, these coins appeared to be the finest coins of all, the only ones which bore the proper stamp. Everywhere among barbarians and Greeks they stood the test. But these we do not use. Instead we have our debased coins of bronze, poorly struck some days ago or yesterday. That’s how we treat our finest citizens, the nobly born, our righteous men, our best and brightest, the ones well trained in music and the dance at the palaestra. Instead we use foreign bronze for everything — useless men from useless fathers, red heads, men who’ve come here very recently — the sort the city at its most negligent would never use in earlier days, not even as a scapegoat. But now, you silly fools, it’s time to change your ways. Use worthy people once again. You’ll see — if you’re successful, then you’ll merit praise. And if you fail, well, you’ll be a fine match for the tree you’re hanging from. At any rate, should you slip up, that’s what the wise will say."

The message in the play obviously is not economical or financial. This was the fifth century and Aristophanes (like this humble poster) witnessed the degradation of politics and called for some kind of renewal. His real point was that bad politicians tend to drive out good ones. One can argue that this was the last masterpiece of classical art and decaying politics was a presage for decaying democracy and conquest by the Macedonia, signaling the end of the Athenian adventure. It was meant to be a comical play but the second part is less funny and the outcome, sad.

i'm in the process of fighting these trends with the tools i have but i've come to agree that this anonymous investment forum is not the place to do it.

----)
Back to name-calling, insults, ad hominems etc

Mephistopheles

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Re: The Terrible Inadequacy of US Election Law-Market Implications
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2020, 08:51:22 AM »
Back to the topic at hand. What is the best way to bet on chaos this November and in the lame duck period? Currently I am about 40% cash, but am looking to invest that in some high quality dividend payers hedged with portfolio margin. I think it is a guarantee this election season will be chaotic and uncertain and we will probably see huge swings. How are you all preparing? Long VIX? Long S&P puts? Some of this stuff is priced in, but surprisingly not as much as I thought it would be. The VIX is at 29, but nowhere near the high during March. I've never shorted or hedged but feel it would be a good thing to bet on a tail scenario.