Author Topic: How do californians deal with their fire problem  (Read 491 times)

rukawa

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How do californians deal with their fire problem
« on: September 13, 2020, 09:33:23 PM »
Normal pre-Industrial California had about 2-4m hectares burned each year. That is normal. What does this look like? In 2018 CA had a record wild fire and that was basically at the lower end of what California should be.

Really California needs to catch up for decades of forest build up. That means you aren't burning 2m hec each year...you are burning 4m hectares each year.

I don't really get how this is supposed to work? Californians can't handle that smoke...they can barely handle 2m...how are they going to deal with 4m each year?! Pre-development Calfornia was smoke filled and on fire constantly...that is what observers saw. Only thing I can think of is you need extensive removal of trees through mechanical means.

I don't really get what Cali is supposed to do.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 09:42:32 PM by rukawa »


Cigarbutt

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Re: How do californians deal with their fire problem
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2020, 09:01:00 AM »
This is really interesting.
When looking at this through a short term lens (few decades), there is a developing upward trend and some of that may be linked to factual changes that have occurred: humidity, temperature, duration of seasons, winds? but a longer term perspective suggests that the main feature has been the build-up of flammable material, in part due to excessive and ill-timed human fire-suppression activity. It's like growing debt; it starts to hurt only when it burns.
i am aware of solid work that sort of saw this coming and that suggested to pre-emptively use active wildland fire combined with efficient control.
The key was the build-up of flammable material at the wildland-urban interface.
How did authorities react to this challenge? Policies (zoning, insurance subsidies etc) were put in place to encourage human presence and properties at the interface. ::)
Denying climate change and ignoring previous clear scientific trends do not attract the same crowds but we should listen when nature speaks.

cubsfan

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Re: How do californians deal with their fire problem
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2020, 10:45:47 AM »
Thank the idiot environmentalists for stopping the common sense approach of clearing debris/dead trees, etc.

These CA forests have existed for 20 million years - but thanks to these people not listening to common sense
forest management - all they have done was years of stock piling napalm waiting for the eventual lightening strike...


Castanza

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Re: How do californians deal with their fire problem
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2020, 10:47:27 AM »
Select harvesting would help
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LC

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Re: How do californians deal with their fire problem
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2020, 11:07:26 AM »
Thank the idiot environmentalists for stopping the common sense approach of clearing debris/dead trees, etc.

These CA forests have existed for 20 million years - but thanks to these people not listening to common sense
forest management - all they have done was years of stock piling napalm waiting for the eventual lightening strike...

State and federal resources are used for land management including wildfire mitigation.

So do you want to complain about too much government, or complain that we need more government activities?
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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cubsfan

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Re: How do californians deal with their fire problem
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2020, 11:14:21 AM »
Thank the idiot environmentalists for stopping the common sense approach of clearing debris/dead trees, etc.

These CA forests have existed for 20 million years - but thanks to these people not listening to common sense
forest management - all they have done was years of stock piling napalm waiting for the eventual lightening strike...

State and federal resources are used for land management including wildfire mitigation.

So do you want to complain about too much government, or complain that we need more government activities?

Years of special interests lawsuits have stymied "sensible" government activities, like fire mitigation. Thanks for making me clarify.

But to your point: idiots like Jerry Brown created this mess when they were in control.

Castanza

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Re: How do californians deal with their fire problem
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2020, 12:13:21 PM »
Thank the idiot environmentalists for stopping the common sense approach of clearing debris/dead trees, etc.

These CA forests have existed for 20 million years - but thanks to these people not listening to common sense
forest management - all they have done was years of stock piling napalm waiting for the eventual lightening strike...

State and federal resources are used for land management including wildfire mitigation.

So do you want to complain about too much government, or complain that we need more government activities?

I would say the issue is more about the gate keeping of land use by government. It's long been illegal to clear brush and selective harvest/timber forests in California. Forest fires are a natural occurrence.

A.) You allow the forest to do its thing and build up undergrowth over decades resulting in massive fires which disrupt human expansion.

B.) You allow companies to come in an manage areas through select harvesting, targeted burning, etc. to mitigate and lessen the potential risk.

There is a balance that can be had. Pretty good article below on some of the nuanced details of the situation.

https://grist.org/article/why-california-is-fighting-fire-with-fire/

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Gregmal

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Re: How do californians deal with their fire problem
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2020, 12:18:54 PM »
Broadly speaking, on the same topic, it is absurd how complicated and expensive doing anything with land is. As the owner, you should be able to do as you choose. If the federal government owns land, they can designate it however they want. If I own land, I shouldn't have to pay tens of thousands of dollars and wait for the Army Corp of Engineers to sign off and then pay the town more in taxes depending upon what I want to use it for....

LC

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Re: How do californians deal with their fire problem
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2020, 12:30:29 PM »
Well until we Build the Wall(TM), land is connected. Many wildfires begin on vast areas of a Federal and/or State land, then spread. But agree there needs to be compromise on both sides in terms of how to effectively mitigate all the risks involved. There is concern with how private companies “selectively” harvest public land, similarly letting undergrowth explode is dangerous as we are now seeing.
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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