Author Topic: Trump aims to remove citizenship from American-born children of immigrants  (Read 7527 times)

Pondside47

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
Re: Trump aims to remove citizenship from American-born children of immigrants
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2018, 05:39:04 PM »
Good. We shouldn't be rewarding criminals.

Unless of course these people are ok with being separated from the kid, who would be a legal citizen, while the trespasser(criminal) gets sent packing. Gotta make up their minds...

It's amazing Trump is talking about babies of non-citizens and you just outright called all non-citizens giving birth here criminals.


Gregmal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4134
Re: Trump aims to remove citizenship from American-born children of immigrants
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2018, 05:58:29 PM »
Good. We shouldn't be rewarding criminals.

Unless of course these people are ok with being separated from the kid, who would be a legal citizen, while the trespasser(criminal) gets sent packing. Gotta make up their minds...

It's amazing Trump is talking about babies of non-citizens and you just outright called all non-citizens giving birth here criminals.

Sorry, but somebody ILLEGALLY entering the country is a criminal. No need to mince words...

Parsad

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8988
Re: Trump aims to remove citizenship from American-born children of immigrants
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2018, 06:49:31 PM »
If we want to let thieves keep what they steal, then there shouldn't be anyone shocked that we have a problem with thievery...If there's never any consequences for ones actions, and in fact, net rewards, well, no wonder the system is a disaster. It's largely why Wall Street is so fucked up. Screw the pension fund to make $6M? Sure, I'll settle with the SEC for $250K....

Then shouldn't the President go to jail for tax evasion?  Cheers!
No man is a failure who has friends!

Gregmal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4134
Re: Trump aims to remove citizenship from American-born children of immigrants
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2018, 06:59:08 PM »
If we want to let thieves keep what they steal, then there shouldn't be anyone shocked that we have a problem with thievery...If there's never any consequences for ones actions, and in fact, net rewards, well, no wonder the system is a disaster. It's largely why Wall Street is so fucked up. Screw the pension fund to make $6M? Sure, I'll settle with the SEC for $250K....

Then shouldn't the President go to jail for tax evasion?  Cheers!

If they can prove it, sure... this liberal mafia citizens conviction shit doesn't cut it though. In America we have due process.

LC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4887
Re: Trump aims to remove citizenship from American-born children of immigrants
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2018, 08:31:06 PM »
Quote
I see your point but just because something has been done a certain way for a certain time is not sufficient evidence to prohibit a re-evaluation just as the fact that the US is one of the few countries giving birthright citizenship means that it should stop.

The US happened to have an unusual concentration of wise men cooperating together during foundation. It is fair to say that they did not foresee all but likely felt that the US would become a magnet for spontaneous allegiance. The founding fathers though devised a balanced system, just in case the country becomes a victim of its own success. Clarity may remain an ideal and there will be murky periods but the best is yet to come.

So I have no problem with revisiting the Constitution in the face of modern society.

I was addressing your question, "If there is so much clarity, why can't people agree....". My point is, (1) there is clarity and consistency of treatment - over a century of consistent treatment, and (2) just because some people cannot agree with something, does not mean it is unclear.

Now, to your point on revisiting the Constitution - you're opening up the floodgates. On this particular issue I do not really see it as a huge burden. Most of these people go undetected and live normal lives with an illegal resident status. The alternative creates huge problems. Do we grandfather people in? If we can't grandfather people in (how could we with a change to the Constitution?), well that creates a BIG problem - now we all have to "prove" our ancestry. Sound familiar? I guess if you can't trace your lineage back to the Mayflower, you're not "American enough". Hmm. What about illegal immigrants claiming asylum? And if not US citizens, then citizens of where? Their parents country? What if that country refuses to grant citizenship? Now are we introducing another piece of negotiating leverage into other aspects of foreign affairs (trade, etc.?)

And frankly if we're changing around with the Constitution, the Electoral College should be the first thing to get a re-look.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 08:39:22 PM by LC »
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
akam| brk.b | goog | irm | lyv | net | nlsn | pm | ssd | t | tfsl | v | wfc | xom

rb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3815
Re: Trump aims to remove citizenship from American-born children of immigrants
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2018, 10:30:01 PM »
Of course nobody is gonna take another look at the constitution. This is a load of crock. Trump is basically doing a "I'm, thinking of changing birthright citizenship - discuss...". He's just trying to stir the pot. He has dead Jews killed in Pittsburgh and bombs in the mail and that looks and is bad. So he throws some red meat as a Hail Mary hoping to drive out crazy support to the polls. If you're in his spot it's actually not a bad way to go about it.

So the result is that the base hungry for the red meat (though by this time you'd figured they'd be stuffed) go crazy - see Gregmal. But really it's a whole load of nothing. It's not gonna come to pass. But if it will it'll be like this: Trump passes executive order. ACLU(or whoever) sues. Court blocks executive order. White House appeals to Supreme Court, Supreme Court declines to listen to the case. It's all just bullshit. So let's chill.


rb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3815
Re: Trump aims to remove citizenship from American-born children of immigrants
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2018, 10:54:24 PM »
Well if the heritage foundation says it, then it must be so right?

wachtwoord

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
Re: Trump aims to remove citizenship from American-born children of immigrants
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2018, 05:26:57 AM »
Well their reasoning seems valid and conclusive. See any holes? (Cause I don't)
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

Schwab711

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1814
Re: Trump aims to remove citizenship from American-born children of immigrants
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2018, 06:25:58 AM »
Yes, a few.

The enforcement of the amendment carries greater weight then any potential intention of one person. The push back on original purpose was first mentioned in the 1970's, after more than 100 years of not seriously raising the point. It was revived in the 1990's and has continued off and on. It's important in our common law system to note when challenges occurred. Also, an amendment, unlike the original portion of the constitution, is passed by both bodies of Congress and ratified by all states. Nothing other than the exact words submitted are agreed to or ratified. Intention of the writer holds little relative value. They aren't wrong that intention matters, but other factors have long overtaken it. This is a moot argument.

It's also somewhat disingenuous to raise the point of American Indians, who live in reservations that are quasi separate sovereigns. At the time, I don't believe they were technically under the legal jurisdiction of the US. Now it's still not completely under US jurisdiction.

Finally, the majority of non-citizen residents in the US are here legally. I merely mention this for perspective.