Author Topic: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.  (Read 2011 times)

cwericb

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“United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« on: August 30, 2020, 07:13:51 PM »
“United we stand, Divided we fall”, is a wise American motto dateing back to the mid 1700's and was frequently used during the unification of the original 13 states.

But today, if the right and left don’t soon suck it up and start making attempts to settle their differences, the consequences will likely be dire and the above motto is likely prophetic.

I personally think that the present leader is doing nothing to unite the country and is incapable of doing so.

However:
What steps should be taken to unite the country?
Do you think the present problems will eventually be resolved?
Do you think they can be resolved?
What do you think the US will look like in 5, 10 or 20 years from now?

I have difficulty understanding how the present divisions can continue to escalate without some sort of second revolution occurring. Or, do some here see some sort of "Trump Dynasty" being formed to rule the country as the answer?

Personally I would think that if disillusioned Republicans and centralist Democrats were to form a third party, it would be a major step in the right direction but I don’t know the legalities and constitutionality of such a move.
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain


Castanza

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Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2020, 08:13:24 PM »
There are plenty of other parties and candidates out there. The issue is the rules governing who can be on the debate stage and campaign money.
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stahleyp

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Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2020, 08:14:50 AM »
I might be crazy but I think running a balanced budget and no interest rate manipulation would solve a lot of issues. These unlimited funds distort things like discipline and lets a lot of irrational costs come in. Like if the government didn't have unlimited money, wealth inequality would be a lot less, college would cost a lot less, homes would cost a lot less, etc. The economy would be a lot bumpier over the short term though.

A lot of these issues ultimately stem from unfairness. And unlimited money increases that.

I also think lobbying should be illegal and term limits should be imposed.
Paul

cwericb

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Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2020, 06:00:24 PM »
“There are plenty of other parties and candidates out there. The issue is the rules governing who can be on the debate stage and campaign money. “

But everything has to start somewhere. If a new centralist party was formed hopefully it would attract some independents as well as dissatisfied GOP and Dems. This is not likely to happen over night. But at this point, given the poor choices on the left and right, it would seem that the time is probably better now than at any previous time?

“I also think lobbying should be illegal..."

That and a cap on election spending would seem to be a step in the right direction. Controlling lobbying would seem to reduce some of the corruption and the control of major industries.
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

winjitsu

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Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2020, 09:28:09 PM »
“There are plenty of other parties and candidates out there. The issue is the rules governing who can be on the debate stage and campaign money. “

But everything has to start somewhere. If a new centralist party was formed hopefully it would attract some independents as well as dissatisfied GOP and Dems. This is not likely to happen over night. But at this point, given the poor choices on the left and right, it would seem that the time is probably better now than at any previous time?

“I also think lobbying should be illegal..."

That and a cap on election spending would seem to be a step in the right direction. Controlling lobbying would seem to reduce some of the corruption and the control of major industries.

Biggest issue are Democrats and Republicans have worked together to create a duopoly where they are the only two viable parties. If these two were companies, I'd invest heavily as they are literally writing their own rules to reduce new entrants.

Elimination of winner take all type votes (say for example assigning electoral college proportionally), reducing gerrymandering, introducing ranked choice voting etc. are all steps in the right direction.

https://medium.com/@rogerkay/the-entrenched-political-duopoly-is-ruining-our-democracy-825a2425245
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/politics-industry/
https://www.hbs.edu/competitiveness/Documents/why-competition-in-the-politics-industry-is-failing-america.pdf
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 09:31:18 PM by winjitsu »

cwericb

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Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2020, 11:05:35 AM »
“Biggest issue are Democrats and Republicans have worked together to create a duopoly where they are the only two viable parties. If these two were companies, I'd invest heavily as they are literally writing their own rules to reduce new entrants.“

Yes, but has there been other times in history where a significant number of one party have not only refused to support an incumbent President, but have actually formed groups to support the other party's candidate? This would seem to indicate that there might be an appetite for a legitimate third party. There certainly seems to be a lot of people who are fed up with the two mainstream parties.

But aside from the formation of a third party it seems that if some major changes don't occur soon, the country is in for a rough ride going forward.
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

Gregmal

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Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2020, 11:21:48 AM »
Hmmmm, so both democrats and large swaths of republicans are working together against a non establishment candidate? LOL and we wonder why there are only two "establishment" parties?

cwericb

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Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2020, 11:36:36 AM »
So, should Trump organize a third party?
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

LC

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Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2020, 11:56:33 AM »
Trump is a republican.
Until being a republican is bad.
Then he’s an “outsider”.
Unless he needs senate agreement.
Then he’s a businessman.
Until he needs state governor’s agreement.
Then Trump is a republican again.

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Dalal.Holdings

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Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2020, 12:06:09 PM »
Trump is a republican.
Until being a republican is bad.
Then he’s an “outsider”.
Unless he needs senate agreement.
Then he’s a businessman.
Until he needs state governor’s agreement.
Then Trump is a republican again.

Don’t forget “he’s corrupt just like every politician” but we love him because “he’s not like other politicians” !