Author Topic: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.  (Read 2134 times)

Gregmal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5185
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2020, 12:41:59 PM »
Trump is a republican.
Until being a republican is bad.
Then he’s an “outsider”.
Unless he needs senate agreement.
Then he’s a businessman.
Until he needs state governor’s agreement.
Then Trump is a republican again.

When does he go back to being a life long Democrat?


cwericb

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1698
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2020, 06:09:15 PM »
Seems like the subject of the thread is getting lost. Arguing won’t solve anything here.

How about some serious ideas of how the divide in the country may be resolved? Can it be resolved? What happens if the split between left and right continues to spread? Where will the country be in 5 years from now?
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

Dalal.Holdings

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1395
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2020, 06:19:22 PM »
Seems like the subject of the thread is getting lost. Arguing won’t solve anything here.

How about some serious ideas of how the divide in the country may be resolved? Can it be resolved? What happens if the split between left and right continues to spread? Where will the country be in 5 years from now?

How about people acknowledging that they'd want their candidate to concede the election if they lose and stop supporting them?

A peaceful transition of power, a 200+ year America tradition, would be a good starting point for avoiding civil war.

I'll start: As opposed to Hillary Clinton's statements, I'd want Joe Biden to concede the election if Trump wins the electoral college as in 2016.

Gregmal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5185
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2020, 06:28:12 PM »
Once COVID has wiped us out, the question "what will it look like?" can be answered by "ever seen I am Legend?"... S&P will be at 10.

Joking aside, there is no realistic solution because the policymakers will always have enough of an incentive to stomp out anything that jeopardizes their way of living. In a revolutionary sense, power can only be taken/relinquished by force or the threat of force.

Donald Trump was who he is today, for 70 some odd years prior to becoming President. He was popular in NY, had major friends all throughout Hollywood and in celebrity circles....yada, yada, yada. Then he gets into politics and everyone hates him and he's the biggest racist ever and compared to Pablo Escobar and Adolf Hitler....the message sent by the establishment is loud and clear, and if you need any further evidence look no further than how horrendously Howard Schultz was treated during that small stretch of time when he was considering a run. Non establishment people are permitted to run as a third party where they are tolerated largely because they are known not to have a chance. But running as the headliner on the D/R ticket is only for the preordained. Heck, even look at what happened to Bernie Sanders...the entire party colluded against him. Twice!

cwericb

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1698
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2020, 06:54:56 PM »
So where do you see the country going over the next few years?

I said here three years ago that Trump would never voluntarily give up power, win or lose in the next election.

I believe that he is looking for a dictatorship and a Trump dynasty with Ivanka following him. Of course he will never refer to it in those words, but that is what it will be. Are Trump supporters comfortable with that?
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

Gregmal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5185
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2020, 07:04:38 PM »
So where do you see the country going over the next few years?

I said here three years ago that Trump would never voluntarily give up power, win or lose in the next election.

I believe that he is looking for a dictatorship and a Trump dynasty with Ivanka following him. Of course he will never refer to it in those words, but that is what it will be. Are Trump supporters comfortable with that?

There is no way this occurs. Will he put up a stink if there's controversy around the outcome...absolutely. But it will likely be in the form of an Al Gore. Litigate and contest things for a bit, and then move on. I would not be surprised to see this regardless of who wins. But pretending he won't voluntarily leave is just an absurd media talking point.

And if Ivanka wants to run, whats wrong with that? And speaking of "dynasty", how would multiple generations of Trumps be any different than the previous generations of Bush or Kennedys?

LC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5357
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2020, 07:34:19 PM »
Trump is all talk. He has no actual backbone. If he loses in November, he'll throw some nonsense lawsuit together, lose somewhere down the line, and slink away to his cave like he always does.
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
akam| brk.b | goog | irm | lyv | net | nlsn | pm | ssd | t | tfsl | v | wfc | xom

winjitsu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2020, 08:31:53 PM »

Yes, but has there been other times in history where a significant number of one party have not only refused to support an incumbent President, but have actually formed groups to support the other party's candidate? This would seem to indicate that there might be an appetite for a legitimate third party. There certainly seems to be a lot of people who are fed up with the two mainstream parties.

But aside from the formation of a third party it seems that if some major changes don't occur soon, the country is in for a rough ride going forward.

This is exactly due to the lack of viable third parties. Trump isn't a true Republican, neither are AOC/Berny Democratics. But because these are the only two viable parties, they have to enter these parties and change them from within. Republicans don't like Trump, but Democrats don't like Berny either. The parties are victims of their own success.

Speaking with my French friends regarding the election of Marcon, for example, there used to be a left/right, but he formed a new centrist party and was elected that way. Ideally, Trump would form his own party and not have to pretend to be Republican (Berlusconi / Forza Italy style I imagine), likewise Berny/AOC could run Socialist and actually get delegates in congress to advance their causes.

But the structural and legal barriers set up to forming a new party, by the rules created by the Democratics and Repbulicans, are humongous. If anything, the viability of a third party has been going down (Perrot -> Nader -> no independent candidate getting anything meaningful).
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 08:36:02 PM by winjitsu »

Castanza

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1793
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2020, 05:48:32 AM »
Core: MSFT | GOOG | AAPL | INTC | PLTR | CMCSA | VZ | RTX | MSGS | BATRK | WFC | USB | PNC | BAC | TPL | PPL | PCYO | GRBK | PLNT | ATCO | ESPO | HACK

Funny Money: NIO

cwericb

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1698
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2020, 08:06:59 AM »
"But the structural and legal barriers set up to forming a new party, by the rules created by the Democratics and Repbulicans, are humongous. If anything, the viability of a third party has been going down (Perrot -> Nader -> no independent candidate getting anything meaningful)."

Yes, Ross Perrot came as close as anyone has, but he had no viable party behind him. If there were as many dissatisfied Republicans and Democrats back then as there is now perhaps there might have been enough momentum to have formed a third party. Unfortunately there seems to be few strong leaders to build a third party around today.

"There is no way this occurs. Will he put up a stink if there's controversy around the outcome...absolutely. But it will likely be in the form of an Al Gore. Litigate and contest things for a bit, and then move on. I would not be surprised to see this regardless of who wins. But pretending he won't voluntarily leave is just an absurd media talking point."

Hope you are right. If he legitimately loses, I have visions of the military grabbing him by the scruff of the neck and dragging him kicking and screaming out of the White House with Bill Barr running behind him yelling "Stop, you can't do that!".

My real concern is that with the situation with the post office, mail in ballots and Trump now encouraging people to vote twice, that there is going to be so much confusion over the results that this election's legitimacy is going to lead to a situation where no one really knows who won the election.
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain