Author Topic: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.  (Read 2000 times)

winjitsu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2020, 11:23:41 AM »

Yes, Ross Perrot came as close as anyone has, but he had no viable party behind him. If there were as many dissatisfied Republicans and Democrats back then as there is now perhaps there might have been enough momentum to have formed a third party. Unfortunately there seems to be few strong leaders to build a third party around today.


Unless we change rules for something like a run-off voting, stack ranking etc., you will always run into the third party problem, which is:

Its a wasted vote and you're better off voting for one of the two candidates you hate the least versus the one you want. Perot probably cost Bush the election, and Nader 100% cost Gore. Arguments that Stein (Green) cost Hilary could be made as well.

I'm not disagreeing with you that there could / should be a third party. Just that making a viable party way more difficult than it should be.


Spekulatius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5428
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2020, 10:53:56 AM »
“Biggest issue are Democrats and Republicans have worked together to create a duopoly where they are the only two viable parties. If these two were companies, I'd invest heavily as they are literally writing their own rules to reduce new entrants.“

Yes, but has there been other times in history where a significant number of one party have not only refused to support an incumbent President, but have actually formed groups to support the other party's candidate? This would seem to indicate that there might be an appetite for a legitimate third party. There certainly seems to be a lot of people who are fed up with the two mainstream parties.

But aside from the formation of a third party it seems that if some major changes don't occur soon, the country is in for a rough ride going forward.

There might be appetite for a third or a different party, but the winner take all principle in the US electoral system pretty much makes only 2 party system viable. In countries where also minority parties are represented in a parliament etc, you will have multiple parties. There are pros and cons to both.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 01:01:16 PM by Spekulatius »
Life is too short for cheap beer and wine.

cwericb

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1535
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2020, 11:17:14 AM »
"There might be appetite for a third or a different party, but the winner take all principle in the US electoral system pretty much makes only 2 party system viable. In countries where also minority parties are represented in a parliament etc, you will have multiple parties. There are pros and cons to both."

That is true and the parliamentary system can be bogged down by too many parties. But for now at least, we are certainly seeing the cons of the American system on full display.

Trump is doing everything he can to scuttle the US election and to discredit the US voting system. Should this result in major changes to the US system, would't it be ironic if, inadvertently, this actually turns out to be his only real legacy?
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

Gregmal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4768
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2020, 04:44:41 PM »
Its interesting looking at what Kanye West is doing. Nothing with respect to Kanye himself, who is certainly an interesting fellow...but simply the fact that somebody with tons of money and talented folks working for him....cant even get on the ballot in some states due to all the bureaucratic nonsense and red tape. Does a normal person really have a chance? There's so many things purposely put in place to ensure that only the chosen ones get to play ball.

cwericb

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1535
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2020, 06:28:36 AM »
Yup, no question the R's & D's want to protect their own turf. Probably the best chance for a new party would come from a major split within one of the old line parties?

While a number of R's don't support Trump, of the rest, some believe in him and some support him simply to maintain their positions and influence. Given that so many politicians are true only onto themselves the future doesn't look particularly bright. One wonders how long this will last?

Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

Jurgis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5646
    • Porfolio
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2020, 07:19:21 AM »
It's somewhat funny that solution proposed for “United we stand. Divided we fall” is to have more parties.  ::)



Oh wait, yes, let's have more parties. Invite everyone, bring booze. This will definitely work.  8)
"Human civilization? It might be a good idea." - Not Gandhi
"Before you can be rich, you must be poor." - Nef Anyo
"Money is an illusion" - Not Karl Marx
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"American History X", "Milk", "The Insider", "Dirty Money", "LBJ"

winjitsu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2020, 04:11:56 PM »
It's somewhat funny that solution proposed for “United we stand. Divided we fall” is to have more parties.  ::)

Oh wait, yes, let's have more parties. Invite everyone, bring booze. This will definitely work.  8)

Even better, we should just go to one party, problems solved. That way, we can really enjoy that booze ;)

Jurgis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5646
    • Porfolio
Re: “United we stand. Divided we fall”.
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2020, 05:53:40 PM »
It's somewhat funny that solution proposed for “United we stand. Divided we fall” is to have more parties.  ::)

Oh wait, yes, let's have more parties. Invite everyone, bring booze. This will definitely work.  8)

Even better, we should just go to one party, problems solved. That way, we can really enjoy that booze ;)

You got it, brother!  8)
"Human civilization? It might be a good idea." - Not Gandhi
"Before you can be rich, you must be poor." - Nef Anyo
"Money is an illusion" - Not Karl Marx
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"American History X", "Milk", "The Insider", "Dirty Money", "LBJ"