Where is Cwericb and Viking?

[orthopa]

Yeah where are these two loudspeakers to blame Trudeau for his disastrous mismanagement of Covid?

WHO warns Canada is facing a 'second wave' of coronavirus cases
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/14/who-warns-canada-is-facing-a-second-wave-of-coronavirus-cases-.html

Cardboard

Ok, i’ll bite. Cardboard, what is it specifically that Trudeau is doing wrong?

Every model out there is predicting a spike in Covid cases in Canada as we enter fall/winter. This is the start of flu season. Any parent who has a kid knows what i am talking about.

If every model saw it coming how come it wasnt prevented? Logic when then tell you someone has to be to blame.

That being said if it cant be prevented, why all the finger pointing across the border?

If something can't be prevented that doesn't mean you should do nothing. It may be that it can't be prevented it can be controlled. We have seen this to be true. Places like Taiwan, SK, NZ weren't able to prevent the virus reaching their population but have done a pretty good job of controlling it when it did.

You forgot China. They haven't had a case in 3-4 months. They are truly the model.

[cwericb]

“If every model saw it coming how come it wasnt prevented? Logic when then tell you someone has to be to blame.
That being said if it cant be prevented, why all the finger pointing across the border?”

That would appear to be typical U.S. right wing thinking. If we can’t prevent it lets just ignore it and “sometime it will just go away” - sometime - perhaps. Meanwhile 220,000 people die and the figure continues to go up.

Every person with half a clue knows that the one simple thing to help reduce the spread is to wear a mask when in close proximity to others. So it is inexcusable for Trump to politicize something so simple and so important as the wearing of masks.

If the US allows the spread to continue with virtually no direction from the top, then the US becomes a danger to everyone else. Take trucking for example. There are 80,000 to 90,000 trucks entering Canada from the U.S. every week. And that doesn’t include all of the other essential cross border traffic. When the U.S. can’t take reasonably responsible steps to reduce the spread of the virus it has a direct effect on its neighbours. And that is why Canadians have a vested interest in what happens in the U.S. If you worked in an office and half the staff had an infectious disease, would you still go to work? Well we can’t just stay home.

I don't know about other areas, but when we get new cases of Covid, it is usually traced back to "international essential travel" i.e. Truckers or others crossing into Canada from the U.S.

I hope this answers your question and helps explain the situation from this side of the border.

[rb]

Trudeau is an abject failure and all leftist governments in Canada.

They killed our liberties, picked winners and losers, destroyed our balance sheet not to overwelm hospitals and their unionized and highly paid workers and the end results is the exact same as in the U.S. and elsewhere.

Ever heard of Sweden you uneducated? Funny that a deep socialist state used their head and tried something else.

They did fuck all and infection, death count per capita is same.

Reason why they have more cases/deaths in the U.S. is that it takes a few hours to get test results vs a week if not more out here and a lot more of pre-conditions: diabetes, obesity and other.

If Obounga was still in power they would applaud same results. You guys are the true deplorables!

Cardboard

Bless your heart Cardboard, but your math hasn't been very good when trying to make political points.

Sweden's per capita infection and death rates are the same as Canada's? No. Both are about double. If Canada has been an abject failure in dealing with COVID then I imagine your opinion of Sweden's performance will change drastically based on this updated information.

The number of deaths in the US is higher because of testing? Is that COVID doesn't kill people, tests kill people.

When it comes to our Canada's balance sheet and fiscal performance you've gotta be kidding. Liberals, even Trudeau has been a choir boy compared to the conservatives in the States.

[Cigarbutt]

^i'm not into sterile debates but the following compares the fiscal 'effort':
https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/en/rates-and-analysis/economic-analysis/hot-charts-201014.pdf

[Viking]

^i'm not into sterile debates but the following compares the fiscal 'effort':
https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/en/rates-and-analysis/economic-analysis/hot-charts-201014.pdf

Cigar, thanks for posting. I think i read that Canada’s total federal debt is going up 35% this year alone. Staggering.

Since the pandemic started Trudeau has been spraying massive amounts of money into every part of the country/economy. When i think of Trudeau i have this image of a fireman with a hose shooting $100 bills out the end (and in every direction).

Yes, additional fiscal spending has been required to help the economy get through the pandemic. However, Trudeau is like a kid in a candy shop right now with no discipline or self control. The fact he has a minority government (and needing support of the NDP) further supports the bias to spend big.

On a personal level, my family has been a big beneficiary so i should probably just be quiet :-)

[Gregmal]

^i'm not into sterile debates but the following compares the fiscal 'effort':
https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/en/rates-and-analysis/economic-analysis/hot-charts-201014.pdf

Cigar, thanks for posting. I think i read that Canada’s total federal debt is going up 35% this year alone. Staggering.

Since the pandemic started Trudeau has been spraying massive amounts of money into every part of the country/economy. When i think of Trudeau i have this image of a fireman with a hose shooting $100 bills out the end (and in every direction).

Yes, additional fiscal spending has been required to help the economy get through the pandemic. However, Trudeau is like a kid in a candy shop right now with no discipline or self control. The fact he has a minority government (and needing support of the NDP) further supports the bias to spend big.

On a personal level, my family has been a big beneficiary so i should probably just be quiet :-)

Now I know why you've gone liberal!

[cwericb]

Justin reminds me of his father. A billion here a billion there, let someone else worry about paying it back.

Having said that, I shudder to think what would have happened if we hadn't have had any of that spending.

So you take the good with the bad and don't over look this part of the report:

“The recovery in Canada’s labour market by nearly all measurements has been much stronger than  in  the  US  where  fiscal  uncertainty  and  inaction  has  provided  a  headwind  in  recent  months.  Moreover,  Canada's  federal  government entered the crisis with fiscal room to spare (less so the for the provinces)—at least if general government net debt was your focus. Even allowing for  this  year's  outsized  shortfall,  the  IMF  puts  Canada's  general  government  net  debt  burden  at  less  than  50%—easily  the  best  among  G7  nations.”

More people working = more taxes being paid.

[rb]

^i'm not into sterile debates but the following compares the fiscal 'effort':
https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/en/rates-and-analysis/economic-analysis/hot-charts-201014.pdf

Cigar, thanks for posting. I think i read that Canada’s total federal debt is going up 35% this year alone. Staggering.

Since the pandemic started Trudeau has been spraying massive amounts of money into every part of the country/economy. When i think of Trudeau i have this image of a fireman with a hose shooting $100 bills out the end (and in every direction).

Yes, additional fiscal spending has been required to help the economy get through the pandemic. However, Trudeau is like a kid in a candy shop right now with no discipline or self control. The fact he has a minority government (and needing support of the NDP) further supports the bias to spend big.

On a personal level, my family has been a big beneficiary so i should probably just be quiet :-)

I guess you've read that somewhere. But deceiving figures like that 35% is something that doesn't sit well with me and makes me think that the content is bullshit. Doesn't even mean anything. The number is bigger because Canada's debt is lower. Is that a bad thing? Should our debt be bigger so that the % increase would be lower? If Canada would have half the debt it has then the % increase would be 70% even more staggering than the 35%. Should Canada have done less to support the economy in that case?

[Viking]

^i'm not into sterile debates but the following compares the fiscal 'effort':
https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/en/rates-and-analysis/economic-analysis/hot-charts-201014.pdf

Cigar, thanks for posting. I think i read that Canada’s total federal debt is going up 35% this year alone. Staggering.

Since the pandemic started Trudeau has been spraying massive amounts of money into every part of the country/economy. When i think of Trudeau i have this image of a fireman with a hose shooting $100 bills out the end (and in every direction).

Yes, additional fiscal spending has been required to help the economy get through the pandemic. However, Trudeau is like a kid in a candy shop right now with no discipline or self control. The fact he has a minority government (and needing support of the NDP) further supports the bias to spend big.

On a personal level, my family has been a big beneficiary so i should probably just be quiet :-)

I guess you've read that somewhere. But deceiving figures like that 35% is something that doesn't sit well with me and makes me think that the content is bullshit. Doesn't even mean anything. The number is bigger because Canada's debt is lower. Is that a bad thing? Should our debt be bigger so that the % increase would be lower? If Canada would have half the debt it has then the % increase would be 70% even more staggering than the 35%. Should Canada have done less to support the economy in that case?

Federal government spending is at unprecedented levels. Spending will remain elevated until the virus is under control... which could be years away.

And guess what is happening with Provinces? Much larger budget deficits (Higher spending and lower tax receipts). We have an election here in BC and the NDP will likely be the winner. What is their most recent promise? To cut everyone in the province a check ($1,000 for families and $500 for singles). Because of covid :-)

And where is the most expensive real estate? Vancouver. Consumers hold record amounts of debt due to our housing bubble.

What not to like? Debt no longer matters. Free money for all...
———————-
Ottawa to post $343B deficit as spending hits levels not seen since Second World War
- https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bill-morneau-fiscal-update-budget-deficit-1.5641864

Federal debtload will hit $1.2 trillion in 2020-21, the government projects in its fiscal ‘snapshot’

Finance Minister Bill Morneau tabled a fiscal snapshot today that shows the federal government's deficit is expected to hit $343 billion this year — an eye-popping figure largely attributed to pandemic-related support programs that have pushed federal spending to a level not seen since the Second World War.
——————————
All told, the mounting deficit has pushed the federal government's total debt level to more than $1 trillion — a number never before seen in Canada.

The projected debt will be $1.2 trillion by March 2021, up from $765 billion a year earlier.

[rb]

^i'm not into sterile debates but the following compares the fiscal 'effort':
https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/en/rates-and-analysis/economic-analysis/hot-charts-201014.pdf

Cigar, thanks for posting. I think i read that Canada’s total federal debt is going up 35% this year alone. Staggering.

Since the pandemic started Trudeau has been spraying massive amounts of money into every part of the country/economy. When i think of Trudeau i have this image of a fireman with a hose shooting $100 bills out the end (and in every direction).

Yes, additional fiscal spending has been required to help the economy get through the pandemic. However, Trudeau is like a kid in a candy shop right now with no discipline or self control. The fact he has a minority government (and needing support of the NDP) further supports the bias to spend big.

On a personal level, my family has been a big beneficiary so i should probably just be quiet :-)

I guess you've read that somewhere. But deceiving figures like that 35% is something that doesn't sit well with me and makes me think that the content is bullshit. Doesn't even mean anything. The number is bigger because Canada's debt is lower. Is that a bad thing? Should our debt be bigger so that the % increase would be lower? If Canada would have half the debt it has then the % increase would be 70% even more staggering than the 35%. Should Canada have done less to support the economy in that case?

Federal government spending is at unprecedented levels. Spending will remain elevated until the virus is under control... which could be years away.

And guess what is happening with Provinces? Much larger budget deficits (Higher spending and lower tax receipts). We have an election here in BC and the NDP will likely be the winner. What is their most recent promise? To cut everyone in the province a check ($1,000 for families and $500 for singles). Because of covid :-)

And where is the most expensive real estate? Vancouver. Consumers hold record amounts of debt due to our housing bubble.

What not to like? Debt no longer matters. Free money for all...
———————-
Ottawa to post $343B deficit as spending hits levels not seen since Second World War
- https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bill-morneau-fiscal-update-budget-deficit-1.5641864

Federal debtload will hit $1.2 trillion in 2020-21, the government projects in its fiscal ‘snapshot’

Finance Minister Bill Morneau tabled a fiscal snapshot today that shows the federal government's deficit is expected to hit $343 billion this year — an eye-popping figure largely attributed to pandemic-related support programs that have pushed federal spending to a level not seen since the Second World War.
——————————
All told, the mounting deficit has pushed the federal government's total debt level to more than $1 trillion — a number never before seen in Canada.

The projected debt will be $1.2 trillion by March 2021, up from $765 billion a year earlier.

I didn't think you would take this the wrong way but seems like you did. It was not a criticism of you but more of how some number gets reported. You would run into this issue whenever you use nominal especially in a historical context. For example a 1 trillion debt number never before seen in Canada. Sure that was never before seen. But the 1.06 trillion projected debt value would mean around 49% debt/gdp. Well that number was very much seen before. Most recently around the year 2000.

For more historical comparison purposes I think Canadian federal debt peaked at around 80% of GDP in 1996. So very much seen before. By comparison with the US, the last time the US was at 49% was 1988. Going into COVID the US was at 107%.

On one side the government actually has to take a lot of this debt on to clear the money markets. Since covid started saving has shot up, bank deposits are up and there's nobody to take this money. On the other side having an economy is kinda nice. The government is instrumental in that. We could argue about the specifics of each program and whether they're a bit more generous that they should be. But by and large this is what should be done the rest is more in the nit-picking range. What should we do? Destroy the economy because rb and viking are philosophically averse to debt? Seems a little silly.

Moreover, Canada, as evidenced above has plenty of fiscal room and firepower because it has managed its finances very well. Even Trudeau, despite all the nonsense that was written has been a fiscal boy scout. One can say that we have been frugal in the past in order to be able to be aggressive when something like this comes along. That is textbook economic/fiscal husbandry. Be frugal when times are good in order to be able to be profligate when times get bad.

Btw, I say this as all the government support is hurting me. I've got high exposure to a business where I'm ok but the government is keeping most of my competitors alive. Without rent support and CEWS a lot (most?) my competitors would be gone in 2-3 months and we would make a ridiculous amount of money after that. Still doesn't seem right to destroy the economy for that. One also has to wonder whether one still has customers if the economy gets destroyed even if one doesn't have many competitors.