Corner of Berkshire & Fairfax Message Board

General Category => Politics => Topic started by: Cardboard on November 21, 2017, 01:16:33 PM

Title: Who would have thought?
Post by: Cardboard on November 21, 2017, 01:16:33 PM
Not sure if this fits into Politics or not?

https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/television/2017/11/21/charlie-roses-cbs-colleagues-react-on-air-there-is-no-excuse-for-this-alleged-behaviour.html

Is Buffett or Charlie next?  :o

Cardboard
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: gfp on November 21, 2017, 01:29:01 PM
It was widely known that he was a hornball. John Oliver even did a hilarious compilation of creepy Charlie Rose on-air sexual innuendo/flirting in an episode of Last Week Tonight this year. His morning show often got awkward between him and the female hosts. He must have seen this coming given the current climate


Not sure if this fits into Politics or not?

https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/television/2017/11/21/charlie-roses-cbs-colleagues-react-on-air-there-is-no-excuse-for-this-alleged-behaviour.html

Is Buffett or Charlie next?  :o

Cardboard
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: rb on November 21, 2017, 01:35:53 PM
Not Charlie Rose too.... shakes head. Seriously is it so hard not to walk around naked among your employees and close the damn bathroom door?
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: Jurgis on November 21, 2017, 03:33:09 PM
What's wrong with walking nekkid among your employers?

Everyone wants nekkid truth, then they complain when dey get it.

If I watch Charlie Rose interviews now, does that count as watching pron?
How about Harvey Weinstein movies?



Life in America is becoming too complicated. Need to take a vacation. Any nudist beach recommendations?
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: EliG on November 21, 2017, 04:15:39 PM
Charlie Rose issued a half-hearted apology and now he is fired. Good.

Meanwhile, Roy Moore continues to deny deny deny. Moore's alleged wrongdoing -- child molestation -- is arguably much worse than Rose's (co-worker harassment). The evidence against both men is exactly the same: a well-researched WaPo article.

It will be funny to watch when Moore becomes a Senator.



Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: cobafdek on November 21, 2017, 06:58:22 PM
In the realm of sexual misconduct, unwanted kissing, groping, and fondling seem so ho-hum these days.

Lately we've heard the bizarre:  pleasuring oneself into a plant in front of a woman (Weinstein), pleasuring oneself while naked in the presence of women (Louis CK), walking around naked in front of women (Rose).

1. Any board members know anyone personally who has engaged in such bizarre behaviors? 

2. Do you think such behavior occurs among ordinary non-famous middle class people?  Or do you think these specific types of weird sexual behaviors occur primarily among the rich and famous politicians or celebrities?

3. Finally, does anyone know any female who was successfully wooed by such maneuvers?  In other words, what are these guys thinking?
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: rb on November 21, 2017, 08:57:01 PM
In the realm of sexual misconduct, unwanted kissing, groping, and fondling seem so ho-hum these days.

Lately we've heard the bizarre:  pleasuring oneself into a plant in front of a woman (Weinstein), pleasuring oneself while naked in the presence of women (Louis CK), walking around naked in front of women (Rose).

1. Any board members know anyone personally who has engaged in such bizarre behaviors? 

2. Do you think such behavior occurs among ordinary non-famous middle class people?  Or do you think these specific types of weird sexual behaviors occur primarily among the rich and famous politicians or celebrities?

3. Finally, does anyone know any female who was successfully wooed by such maneuvers?  In other words, what are these guys thinking?
I think number 3 is the easiest to address. I do not know of nay woman that was successfully wooed by such maneuvers. It's counter intuitive (for the right reason) that the right way to woo a woman would be to assault her. It doesn't work like that. But what these guys want is not to woo a woman. They want to get a cheap thrill, humiliate a woman, or get a power trip by being able to put someone down in some of the most personal ways. This stuff isn't about infatuation or love.

As for weather this stuff occurs among regular people about half of the professional women I know have had events of inappropriate touching, groping, etc. Almost excursively by powerful superiors. These are things I've heard (always in a disgusted tone). My sister was also groped by a powerful superior. My mom when she was young had an event with a proposition involving a hotel room from a superior. This stuff is pervasive. Yes most of it is groping and stuff (is that ok?). It seems that public masturbation and walking around naked is reserved for the super elite - a perk of the job.

But now for what I have seen. I have seen an MD hire a woman to do laps around the trading floor in high heels and revealing clothing to provide "inspiration" for the traders. Another director would regularly ask women in interviews if they fuck, how they fuck, how they like it. He had "relations" with a lot of employees. He is now the head of a major global brokerage. The head of a global division got drunk at a Christmas party and got up on a table, performed a strip-tease, got buck naked and was shaking it for everyone. As far as I know he wasn't a sexual predator (haven't heard of any groping, etc), he just felt inspired at that point. Still I don't think anyone came there to see his dick. The guy who had the job before him would regularly get blow jobs under the table from a junior employee, often when other people were present. Yes he was in a relationship with the employee (it ended) but since when is that ok in a professional setting. This was all at a major global bank (too big to fail) not at a two bit bucket shop.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this thing is pervasive. It happens a lot and there's a lot of these creeps everywhere. Just because you and I wouldn't engage in this type of behaviour doesn't mean that a lot of other men wouldn't. I could list more examples but I think the above did its job. Anyway if you think that inappropriate/disgusting/creepy behavoir is reserved for a select few, you are wrong.
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: cobafdek on November 21, 2017, 10:01:56 PM
It's counter intuitive . . . that the right way to woo a women would be to assault her. It doesn't work like that. But what these guys want is not to woo a woman. They want to get a cheap thrill, humiliate a woman, or get a power trip by being able to put someone down in some of the most personal ways. This stuff isn't about infatuation or love.

I'm not sure about all this.  I think those guys, IN THE MOMENT horny and lonely, were rationalizing to themselves that they were wooing the women because of infatuation or love.  If you were to ask them in an interview outside of such episodes, when they've returned to rationality,  they would agree with you that it is wrong to assault and humiliate women.  When horny and crazy, maybe they actually believed their maneuvers would work.

Your other examples seem more like garden-variety frathouse escapades transported to a financial workplace.  I've heard of strange behavior at wild parties, and I'm used to people acting out in bizarre ways for public consumption.

The admitted behaviors of Weinstein, CK, and Rose were private and not meant for public "party" consumption.  To me, their moves seem qualitatively bizarre and different from what I usually hear about when sexual harassment is reported.  I'm just wondering if others feel the same. 

It seems that . . . masturbation and walking around naked is reserved for the super elite - a perk of the job.

This is what I'm trying to get a handle on.  Do you have any examples of coworkers or acquaintances, not famous and not powerful, at the major global bank that confided to you that they engaged in such behavior privately in front of a woman?
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: rb on November 21, 2017, 10:37:33 PM
Your other examples seem more like garden-variety frathouse escapades transported to a financial workplace.  I've heard of strange behavior at wild parties, and I'm used to people acting out in bizarre ways for public consumption.

Are you kidding me with this? Frathouse escapades? Should people be able to pull their dick out at work just cause they feel like it? I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't fare very well at said company if I tried that. And what about the other stuff? Is grabbing women's tits ok, just frathouse escapades, as long as you don't jerk off in front of them?


It seems that . . . masturbation and walking around naked is reserved for the super elite - a perk of the job.

This is what I'm trying to get a handle on.  Do you have any examples of coworkers or acquaintances, not famous and not powerful, at the major global bank that confided to you that they engaged in such behavior privately in front of a woman?
The fact that what some of these guys look for are really weird and that multiple unrelated creeps are looking for the same things should tell you that it's not that rare and there are likely many more looking for the same things - think along the lines of mathematical induction. At this point there's nobody writing stories of a middle manager at a Whirlpool plant in Ohio jerking off in front of line workers when you have plenty of stories to write about Louis CK, Charlie Rose, and likely more to come. But from what it looks like, no way is this an isolated thing.
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: rb on November 21, 2017, 11:21:31 PM
I should add a couple of things to my previous post.

In life all people make mistakes. It may be giving a wrong answer to a question in an interview or crossing a line in a personal relationship. Things happen. But when a normal people make a mistake the recognize it, reflect on it and think of how not to do it again. When someone makes the same mistake 10 times in a row it stops being a mistake and it becomes modus operandi.

I also have scintilla or respect for people like Louie and Rose who acknowledge what they did, that it was wrong, apologize, and try to make amends. In contrast to others who try to discredit, obfuscate, and try to come up with lame excuses/justifications for their behaviour.
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: Parsad on November 22, 2017, 12:42:21 AM
This reckoning was definitely due, but we all know, a handful of innocent people will be painted with the same brush during all of this.

For example, actor Jeremy Piven, who most people would have expected something like this from due to his personality and character from Entourage.  But Piven has passed lie detector tests in the last couple of days.  Now what happens for him?  His reputation is tainted, yet there is zero proof anything transpired other than someone else's word.

All of this needed to happen, but should have happened through the court system...not court of public opinion!  Cheers!
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: clutch on November 22, 2017, 05:30:02 AM
One (negative) part of this trend is that some men could now feel afraid to interact with women colleagues in any sort of way at work. They might even minimize communicating with them whatsoever because who knows what they say could constitute as sexually predatory behaviour. This could work against incorporating more women at a particular work place.

p.s. I'm not defending any of these celebrities' behaviors, considering the accused are true.
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: DTEJD1997 on November 22, 2017, 05:48:51 AM
Hey all:

While I have sympathy for the victims of "wrong" sexual behavior....I've got a couple of concerns with the situation:

A). A lot of companies/organizations/people are rushing to cut ties and take actions against people simply based off of the "word" of somebody.  Where is the presumption of innocence?   How do you defend yourself against an a mere accusation?  This is especially true when the wrongdoing is 10,20,30,40 years in the past.

It is a different thing if the accused admits to wrongdoing....(Charlie Rose, Al Franken, Louis CK)

B). If the victims of abuse had come forward at (or close) to the time of the transgression, the world would be a very different place today.  If you sit back and take the abuse and stay silent...the perpetrator can keep up their nefarious activities and other people will be victimized.  If nobody takes a stand against wrongdoing, it is likely to continue.  HECK, it might even get worse, as the perpetrator sees no consequences to their bad behavior and is emboldened to continue.  Evil flourishes when good people stay silent.

Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: rkbabang on November 22, 2017, 05:54:42 AM
Hey all:

While I have sympathy for the victims of "wrong" sexual behavior....I've got a couple of concerns with the situation:

A). A lot of companies/organizations/people are rushing to cut ties and take actions against people simply based off of the "word" of somebody.  Where is the presumption of innocence?   How do you defend yourself against an a mere accusation?  This is especially true when the wrongdoing is 10,20,30,40 years in the past.

It is a different thing if the accused admits to wrongdoing....(Charlie Rose, Al Franken, Louis CK)

B). If the victims of abuse had come forward at (or close) to the time of the transgression, the world would be a very different place today.  If you sit back and take the abuse and stay silent...the perpetrator can keep up their nefarious activities and other people will be victimized.  If nobody takes a stand against wrongdoing, it is likely to continue.  HECK, it might even get worse, as the perpetrator sees no consequences to their bad behavior and is emboldened to continue.  Evil flourishes when good people stay silent.

+1.   It's turning into a witch hunt for sure.  Everyone with a grudge or simply looking for attention is going to be pointing fingers now.
I agree it is different if there is some evidence, or the accused admits it, or like Bill Cosby, there are a lot of people all saying the same thing.   That said, some of these people are truly deplorable and have been getting away with this stuff for a long time.  I just hope this doesn't all go way too far.

Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: DTEJD1997 on November 22, 2017, 06:02:22 AM
Hey all:

While I have sympathy for the victims of "wrong" sexual behavior....I've got a couple of concerns with the situation:

A). A lot of companies/organizations/people are rushing to cut ties and take actions against people simply based off of the "word" of somebody.  Where is the presumption of innocence?   How do you defend yourself against an a mere accusation?  This is especially true when the wrongdoing is 10,20,30,40 years in the past.

It is a different thing if the accused admits to wrongdoing....(Charlie Rose, Al Franken, Louis CK)

B). If the victims of abuse had come forward at (or close) to the time of the transgression, the world would be a very different place today.  If you sit back and take the abuse and stay silent...the perpetrator can keep up their nefarious activities and other people will be victimized.  If nobody takes a stand against wrongdoing, it is likely to continue.  HECK, it might even get worse, as the perpetrator sees no consequences to their bad behavior and is emboldened to continue.  Evil flourishes when good people stay silent.

+1.   It's turning into a witch hunt for sure.  Everyone with a grudge or simply looking for attention is going to be pointing fingers now.
I agree it is different if there is some evidence, or the accused admits it, or like Bill Cosby, there are a lot of people all saying the same thing.   That said, some of these people are truly deplorable and have been getting away with this stuff for a long time.  I just hope this doesn't all go way too far.

Or, here is another situation....What if there are 4,5,6,7 accusers who all claim that the activity took place 30+ years ago?  Then, there are no accusers from 1,5,10,15, 20 years ago?

In my experience, MOST maniac perverts (Bill Clinton is good example) have engaged in improper sexual behavior throughout most of their lives.  It is usually a REPEATED pattern of bad behavior over long stretches of time.  They were perverts 30 years ago...then they did stuff 20 years ago...10 years ago...and so on.  Speaking of Bill Clinton, there are rumors that he was up to his old pattern of behavior in the early/mid 2000's.  Please see:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/former-president-bill-clinton-facing-fresh-claims-of-sexual-assault-from-four-women-during-time-working-for-billionaire/ar-BBFpDZe

Of course, Bill Clinton is not the only pervert engaged in this, he is only the most famous.

Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: Gregmal on November 22, 2017, 07:05:27 AM
A couple things there.

1) Idk about everyone else, but wasn't it kind of obvious, like forever, that this is how Hollywood and the like worked? I detest that degenerate culture and have never been a fan of the celebrity obsession so many people have, but I think one is stupid if they didn't know that this is how things worked there. These are typically shallow, materialistic, and pervy people. Of course there is a casting couch, of course pretty girls get jobs over ugly ones. Of course when it s a tie the one willing to get busy with the guy making the decision wins. Should people really pretend to be shocked and outraged now that a few guys get called out? Did people really think it a coincidence every female news anchor was pretty, had big tits, and pearl white teeth? Don't be stupid.

2) Why is it that its still only overweight, old, ugly dudes getting called out? Isn't it odd that the Leo's and Pitt's of the world haven't had any issues? While I in no way condone the abusive behaviour of some of these creeps, I'd gander its possible these women wouldn't have complained if it was a good looking A-lister. They'd probably try milking it. The guys getting caught just happened to be ugly. Unless we are to believe only ugly people do this stuff...

3) Some of the the stuff now considered harassment is crazy. I've read a ton of headlines about "he made a pass at me". Are you kidding? It is as though a man can not approach of a women anymore without risking a huge outcry. There's nothing wrong with flirting, or showing interest in another person. There is something wrong with forcing oneself on something. But there is a huge difference. You aren't a victim because a guy complimented you or asked you out and you were creeped out simply because he wasn't socially graceful or good looking.

4) I always thought it was kind of a no-no, and generally viewed as a low life move to pursue colleagues/people one works with. Somewhere along the line it became ok, but the simplest solution to all of this would just be for the companies to start enforcing a no relationship rule. Encourage accountability from colleagues to enforce this. Then it's fairly simple. So and so is aggressively pursuing another so and so? Can them. Problem solved. Then again, no one in Hollywood/Entertainment would get married considering almost every actor/actress I've ever quickly Wikipedia'd had the same tag line about their spouse, "met on the set of ..., met while filming ...". But given the statistics, it is probably better these people don't get married in the first place.

Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: rkbabang on November 22, 2017, 07:42:27 AM
(http://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/know-the-work-rules-aprropriate-vs-inapropriate-looking-good-susan.jpg)
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: Parsad on November 22, 2017, 09:12:44 AM
Well think about this stuff a bit. 

I remember when I was in university, and at a couple of parties during those years, I remember two times where a young woman grabbed my junk...once at a university party and once at a night club.  As a horny, young man, I didn't view it as harassment, but if I had done something similar (especially today), you would be in big trouble. 

As a 48-year old, heavy, bald man, sadly those days never happen anymore to me...but maybe that is a good thing considering what could happen in a he said/she said world.  Also, it may be it's because the parties I attend now are galas and not keggers!   ;D  Cheers!
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: Gregmal on November 22, 2017, 10:07:10 AM
Well think about this stuff a bit. 

I remember when I was in university, and at a couple of parties during those years, I remember two times where a young woman grabbed my junk...once at a university party and once at a night club.  As a horny, young man, I didn't view it as harassment, but if I had done something similar (especially today), you would be in big trouble. 

As a 48-year old, heavy, bald man, sadly those days never happen anymore to me...but maybe that is a good thing considering what could happen in a he said/she said world.  Also, it may be it's because the parties I attend now are galas and not keggers!   ;D  Cheers!

I remember watching one of those classic 90's early/2000's movies a few months ago with Sean Williams Scott(Stifler). I believe it was Road Trip but may be mistaking it with any of his usual movies. There was a line in there where he is trying to convince his buddy to forget about pursuing his old high school girlfriend. The line was something about "hey man, forget about her. Besides, this is your last chance to be taking advantage of horny, drunk coeds". I'd seen the movie a million times, and a ton like it. That line never stood out to me as crazy or inappropriate, that was generally how shit was/is in high school/college and then the real world(just on a much more discreet level once you exit university). Superbad, a classic, Jonah Hill says "we lost the booz, how am I ever going to get her drunk enough to hook up with me? You know how girls are always saying "I can't believe I hooked up with that guy when I was drunk. WE CAN BE THAT MISTAKE"". Another line I've laughed at before. Seeing these movies now and hearing some of this stuff awes me at how different things have become, on so many different levels. If those lines were dropped in movies today, the movies and studios producing them would probably all get boycotted. Society has become way too sensitive. Its horrible.
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: cobafdek on December 10, 2017, 01:20:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoLHn577xIE

This analysis was posted a year ago tomorrow.  Fascinating stuff, even if body language interpretation is subjective and more art than science.  In light of recent news regarding improper sexual behavior among congressmen, Joe Biden and many others are at a fair risk for next being named.  It's not too hard to surmise how simple maneuvers can either (1) be misinterpreted subjectively by the women, or (2) lead the men to think they can cross the line and do more.
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: Value^2 on December 11, 2017, 11:17:26 PM
I firmly believe that, If Hillary had won the elections, there wouldn't be any of these revelations (or no more than times in the past). No matter the fact that, she's married with serial rapist and hardcore sexual predator. Most of this whining must be related when those butt-hurt Hillary voters just tries get revenge.
Title: Re: Who would have thought?
Post by: Parsad on December 12, 2017, 09:31:49 AM
I firmly believe that, If Hillary had won the elections, there wouldn't be any of these revelations (or no more than times in the past). No matter the fact that, she's married with serial rapist and hardcore sexual predator. Most of this whining must be related when those butt-hurt Hillary voters just tries get revenge.

Well, it started with Trump's own sexual "locker-room" talk and antics...so you are correct, these revelations are completely occurring because of President Trump.  Cheers!